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Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.22 01:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Dmian Wow! And I thought the GTC cost was 130 million... Shame on ye, sir _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2008.10.22 01:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Bruce Deorum GTC due to recent changes have started to rise up to 600m, and even like that non is available... My estimate is that price will go much higher. What are your guesses ? my guess is the world economy is taking a dump so less and less can afford to buy GTC to sell for isk lot of people out of work you know :( 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
Wonton Tomato Suicide Girls	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:16:00 - [33] If CCP was buying up the majority of the GTC's from players using alts, it would explain why the price hikes. CCP's isk costs nothing, just the input of a number that represents fake money in a fake world. The GTC does cost the original purchaser, who probably can't stand the isk making content. I don't blame the GTC seller, who wants to watch paint dry to get isk the 'intended' way. Nevertheless, CCP gets real money for that GTC's original sale. Why would they want to do buy their own GTC's using their own alts? Genius Lvl 5 mah friend. Same reason they canceled ghost training. Things like this force players into actually whipping out some real cash to play the game. So let's make GTC's so expensive that cash becomes the better option. Mo money, mo money, mo manipulation. Yee haw!
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.10.22 02:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Wonton Tomato If CCP was buying up the majority of the GTC's from players using alts, it would explain why the price hikes. CCP's isk costs nothing, just the input of a number that represents fake money in a fake world. The GTC does cost the original purchaser, who probably can't stand the isk making content. I don't blame the GTC seller, who wants to watch paint dry to get isk the 'intended' way. Nevertheless, CCP gets real money for that GTC's original sale. Why would they want to do buy their own GTC's using their own alts? Genius Lvl 5 mah friend. Same reason they canceled ghost training. Things like this force players into actually whipping out some real cash to play the game. So let's make GTC's so expensive that cash becomes the better option. Mo money, mo money, mo manipulation. Yee haw! Did someone call the Tinfoil Brigade? You do know that CCP gets the full sub price for every GTC sale - that's why the cost more than actually paying with a credit card, the reseller markup. CCP doesn't have to buy GTCs with their own alts - in fact, it's better if they didn't, Eve already has too much isk being created out of thin air. ---
StinkFinger Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.22 03:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Mankirks Wife Originally by: Wonton Tomato If CCP was buying up the majority of the GTC's from players using alts, it would explain why the price hikes. CCP's isk costs nothing, just the input of a number that represents fake money in a fake world. The GTC does cost the original purchaser, who probably can't stand the isk making content. I don't blame the GTC seller, who wants to watch paint dry to get isk the 'intended' way. Nevertheless, CCP gets real money for that GTC's original sale. Why would they want to do buy their own GTC's using their own alts? Genius Lvl 5 mah friend. Same reason they canceled ghost training. Things like this force players into actually whipping out some real cash to play the game. So let's make GTC's so expensive that cash becomes the better option. Mo money, mo money, mo manipulation. Yee haw! Did someone call the Tinfoil Brigade? You do know that CCP gets the full sub price for every GTC sale - that's why the cost more than actually paying with a credit card, the reseller markup. CCP doesn't have to buy GTCs with their own alts - in fact, it's better if they didn't, Eve already has too much isk being created out of thin air. let me put my tinfoil hat on for a sec...if they did buy up enough gtcs to significantly drive up the price, it would tempt those with more $$$ to buy more gtcs to get more isk in game...which, in the end, means ccp gets more cash...and how would the playerbase ever find out?? seems like a win win for ccp.. oh, and im really sure the eve economy is more important than ccps bank account...... Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.22 04:14:00 - [36] If I had more than $200 in my RL bank account I would SO buy some GTCs to pawn. Ah well. Such is the way of the grad student.
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.22 04:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Dirk Magnum If I had more than $200 in my RL bank account I would SO buy some GTCs to pawn. Ah well. Such is the way of the grad student. if i had some spare monies to blow on sheer amusement id go to a stripjoint and get somewhat wasted and throw some change at the ladies to jiggle their stuffs but thats me
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.10.22 04:42:00 - [38] Edited by: Highwind Cid on 22/10/2008 04:42:32 Originally by: Bruce Deorum GTC due to recent changes have started to rise up to 600m, and even like that non is available... My estimate is that price will go much higher. What are your guesses ? My guess is <Shakes magic 8 ball> "Better not tell you now." Wow holy sardine I think I might be on to a new meme....
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.22 05:40:00 - [39] The GTC change, ghost training and the speed at which they were done and proximity in which they were implemented on top of the failed Icelandic economy tells me several things: A) They just don't really give a damn. B) Their business is failing and this is a last ditch effort to extract money to stay alive. C) They really believe in the crap they are spinning to the players and the press. B and C are more than likely closer to the truth, but since this is the norm for CCP these days it might just be A.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.22 05:58:00 - [40] Edited by: Sokratesz on 22/10/2008 05:58:34 Originally by: Saint Lazarus My guess is the entirely optional act of buying a GTC with cash or paying isk for a GTC will balance itself and your pretty little head is just gonna have to deal with it End of thread. Stop whining, pay with real money, stop upsetting the economy. Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart

Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:03:00 - [41] Costs should go up slightly this month as a few people activate accounts they weren't planning to. However as cost goes up demand goes down as alts become uneconomical. As well the amount of GTCs people who want ISK need to buy goes down, so supply goes down, accelerating this cycle. Next month what you will see is a lot less people running GTC paid alts, people will transfer them to existing accounts or simply stop playing with them, and so demand will decrease. And the prices will drop again. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Jac Straw Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:12:00 - [42] Edited by: Jac Straw on 22/10/2008 07:13:23 Market 101 High demand and low supply = High Prices Low demand and high supply = Low Prices Go figure........ Edit: spelling, clarity
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 07:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Bruce Deorum GTC due to recent changes have started to rise up to 600m, and even like that non is available... My estimate is that price will go much higher. What are your guesses ? Obvious GTC price manipulation post is obvious.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 09:28:00 - [44] Originally by: Dirk Magnum If I had more than $200 in my RL bank account I would SO buy some GTCs to pawn. Ah well. Such is the way of the grad student. A way which raises the question: How much does a healthy kidney sell for on the free market these days?
OutOfTheBox Cyborg	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Faife if it hits a billion i'll be tempted to go spend some real money in order to be able to try and freak out the jita market... "Tritanium is plummetting! hundreds of sell orders for under 2isk!" ... i think that'd be worth my entertainment buying dollar... And how many thousands of dollars do you think you would need to freak out the jita market for a few minutes?
Veshenka	Posted - 2008.10.22 12:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Veshenka on 22/10/2008 12:35:33 I can see how end of ghost training spurred a wave of people reactivating their accounts to consolidate or to finish training that important skill on their alt. It was a good deal before to run several accounts and pay only half the price either in real money or ISK for accounts you didn't play but only trained. Now you have to pay full price for an account that you only kept for training. Many multiple-account holders do not agree to this price hike and see no reason to keep those extra accounts running. However they need their alts on active accounts, but to consolidate they need to reactivate them first. Other players who were ghost training some important long skill also need to reactivate now. Because their important long skill isn't training any longer so there is no reason to keep account inactive. And if they want to finish off this important long skill, they need the account active. Give it some time and GTC prices will come down a bit. Half a billion already looks like a big sum to pay up to very many players in game who then choose to pay in cash and hold just one account open in game.
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:41:00 - [47] My guess is: GTCs will continue selling for roughly half the price of gold farmer ISK. The other supply and demand factors are noise. When you see Mr. dfafdsqwe spam '2 billion ISK $30' in a rookie channel you can rest assured GTCs will sell for around a bil. Various other theories have predicted the September GTC price spike and consequent October decrease. Guess what, no dice. Watch gold farmer ISK prices if you want an indicator of where GTCs are headed. And with absolute ice farmer safety in empire my prediction is 'up up and away.'
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Clair Bear My guess is: GTCs will continue selling for roughly half the price of gold farmer ISK. The other supply and demand factors are noise. When you see Mr. dfafdsqwe spam '2 billion ISK $30' in a rookie channel you can rest assured GTCs will sell for around a bil. Various other theories have predicted the September GTC price spike and consequent October decrease. Guess what, no dice. Watch gold farmer ISK prices if you want an indicator of where GTCs are headed. And with absolute ice farmer safety in empire my prediction is 'up up and away.' Agreed.
Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:41:00 - [49] Edited by: Braxiglox Hrrglxbrwimple on 22/10/2008 16:42:28 Economies slowing down around the world and ppl tightening up on expenditures result in fewer ppl willing to lay out cash just to get ISK by selling GTCs. I am one of those. Money has been tighter lately and I don't have any to spend on GTCs. The blocking of unsubbed training is having an effect on interest in the game by non-noobs. If one is reducing game participation, consolidating accounts or dropping secondary accounts and feeling less reason to reactivate accounts since no training will have accumulated, there is lower personal demand to have ISK to spend on stuff, therefore less reason to buy GTCs and sell them for ISK. I am one of those. I cut back on my short term objectives in Eve and there's nothing I presently need ISK for, so I have no more reason to buy GTCs to sell to get ISK. For me the blocking of unsubbed training broke the cycle of compulsive training altogether. Within a few days of the nerf I decided to cut way back on how many of my nine accounts I will keep active. Now, since an inactive account isn't training, I have given up on the cycle of reactivating them to enjoy new skills and start new training. If I want to play, I'll reactivate one or two, but the buzz has completely gone out of it. So... two powerful reasons why supply has contracted and GTC prices risen.
Trind2222 Amarr The Red Ring	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:57:00 - [50] I am wondering if ccp don't want any to sell gtc any more? If you are a gtc seller you will notice is harder to sell as it now. Gtc buyer's will quit playing is to much trouble to gain the isk before gtc goes out. ____________ Wrangler comes back out wearing his wizard hat and robe Wrangler: Hail and well met from Blizzard, how might I assist you?

Stephannus Calimben the united	Posted - 2008.10.22 17:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Trind2222 I am wondering if ccp don't want any to sell gtc any more? If you are a gtc seller you will notice is harder to sell as it now. Gtc buyer's will quit playing is to much trouble to gain the isk before gtc goes out. Why would they ever want to stop doing this? They increased the price so that they now get as much for a credit card subscription as they do for gtc cost-merchant fee...meaning that as far as CCP is concerned it doesn't matter one way or the other. There's people who are only willing to play because they can pay with isk, and people who are only willing to pay because they can substitute grinding for working a few more hours in RL. If ccp removes GTCs, the former will quit, and the latter will resort to buying from gold farmers, which means less $$ for ccp.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente Apocalypse Ponies H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.10.22 17:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Bruce Deorum GTC due to recent changes have started to rise up to 600m, and even like that non is available... My estimate is that price will go much higher. What are your guesses ? my guess isc that i will wait until the price reaches 1bn, then cash in!
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.22 18:02:00 - [53] I sold 2x 60D GTC's today - one for 520M and the other for 550M. I don't tend to go in for stuff like this but I needed to get my hands on some urgent funds to buy implants and new skills Peace and love, Josh
Yuleth Gix	Posted - 2008.10.22 18:57:00 - [54] Most of the posts here talking about the inveitability of prices rising are done by the GTC sellers. Generally they come on the forums and talk about it enough till they think people will stomach a price hike, then they go and try to raise prises some more. I take everything I read here to that effect with a grain of salt.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.10.22 19:03:00 - [55] The reason for prices being so high is the lack of supply. To get into the GTC market you need $35 now, compared to $17 for the old 30-day. For me to play for a month and sell a GTC every month it'll cost ~$50/month compared to ~$30/month with the old GTC's. I know I get more ISK and someone gets to play twice as long, but most people might have trouble getting approval from their wives to spend more on internet spaceships. Now thats there's less competition, sellers can set their price higher. You can easily sell for 600M if you are patient and post at the right time. I've been monitoring the forums recently and at one point, the top 20 posts on the first page were all WTB threads; its a seller's market. I also recieved a mail from ShatteredCrystal basically begging people to buy more GTC's to "help our fellow EVE players." They blame the RL economy. LOL. It used to be ~180M ISK/month to play, now its ~260M ISK/month -- an increase of about 45% Another thing - most people can't manage their budgets in RL, much less an internet spaceship game. Now people have to plan to have ~500M in their account every two months just to play. It was easy to sc**** together 180M to play, but I bet most people have a hard time scraping together 500M at the last minute. To answer the OP, unless more people start selling GTC's the prices will rise until enough people are forced to quit and demand drops. At that point the market will stabilize and prices will drop. That is unless something else is done about the issue. Regards, Trebor Notlimah
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.22 19:24:00 - [56] As with many other things, pricing trends tend to form spirals. GTC rises in price -> fewer GTCs need to be purchased to achieve ISK objective -> GTC rises in price Or, in this case: GTC rises in price -> fewer GTCs need to be purchased to achive ISK objective -> CCP reduces value of game in hopes of increasing demand for GTCs -> GTC rises in price? If nothing else life promises to be interesting in the GTC market.
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.22 19:33:00 - [57] Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 22/10/2008 19:11:19 The reason for prices being so high is the lack of supply. To get into the GTC market you need $35 now, compared to $17 for the old 30-day. For me to play for a month and sell a GTC every month it'll cost ~$50/month compared to ~$30/month with the old GTC's. I know I get more ISK and someone gets to play twice as long, but most people might have trouble getting approval from their wives to spend more on internet spaceships . Now thats there's less competition, sellers can set their price higher. You can easily sell for 600M if you are patient and post at the right time. I've been monitoring the forums recently and at one point, the top 20 posts on the first page were all WTB threads; its a seller's market. I also recieved a mail from ShatteredCrystal basically begging people to buy more GTC's to "help our fellow EVE players." They blame the RL economy. LOL. It used to be ~180M ISK/month to play, now its ~260M ISK/month -- an increase of about 45% Another thing - most people can't manage their budgets in RL, much less an internet spaceship game. Now people have to plan to have ~500M in their account every two months just to play. It was easy to sc**** together 180M to play, but I bet most people have a hard time scraping together 500M at the last minute. To answer the OP, unless more people start selling GTC's the prices will rise until enough people are forced to quit and demand drops. At that point the market will stabilize and prices will drop. That is unless something else is done about the issue. In conclusion, Fewer GTC Sellers Due To: 1)Increase price to enter the GTC market ($17 to $35) 2)RL economy issues 3)Older players leaving (?) More GTC Buyers Due To: 1)RL economy issues 2) Removal of ghost training Regards, Trebor Notlimah Translation: Competition / Demand vs Supply Peace and love, Josh
SecHaul	Posted - 2008.10.22 21:56:00 - [58] Edited by: SecHaul on 22/10/2008 21:58:21 Originally by: Trebor Notlimah In conclusion, Fewer GTC Sellers Due To: 1)Increase price to enter the GTC market ($17 to $35) 2)RL economy issues 3)Older players leaving (?) More GTC Buyers Due To: 1)RL economy issues 2) Removal of ghost training Bingo. The same point has a double impact. People that could afford to buy GTCs for ISK earlier are now in a position that the additional $'s per month is no longer affordable. Less supply People that were previously paying the monthly subscriptions are finding the cost no longer affordable, and are turning to GTCs. Increased demand There are so many reasons for why people buy GTCs for sale of ISK. Demand has a fixed floor, people will always want to play for free. As the ISK cost of GTC goes down, more people will naturally convert to using ISK to play for free. The increased prices in my opinion are more closely linked to a change in supply, which I link to either people using GTCs for ISK (to build a Titan, whatever) leaving combined with the average Joe finding themselves to cash strapped to fund this habit. GTCs are a secondary market governed by players. The cost / time equation changed with the cost of the GTCs, but any change outside of that is purely supply / demand driven. When they start hitting 1B each, I'll increase the supply ;)
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.22 23:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Armoured C wouldnt ghost training of brought them down since there might be a bigger increase for demand against them, as if there is a bigger demand for them as you need a active account that mean that competition would rise and so decrease price to insure that there GTC was sold over others ? or that many people have emo raged quit and the GTC market is soaking up where there are less people wanting to buy but even in that case that should still lead to lower prices since they are still fighting for your custom this market is silly grabs credit card No, you've got it wrong. The DEMAND makes prices go up as people bid higher and higher to get a Limited amount of GTC's. If SUPPLY of GTC's was higher than Demoand then prices would fall. Regards, Jason Brisbane
Anonymous Troll	Posted - 2008.10.22 23:52:00 - [60] Originally by: IR Scoutar if i had some spare monies to blow on sheer amusement id go to a stripjoint and get somewhat wasted and throw some change at the ladies to jiggle their stuffs but thats me Now THAT is a waste of money. I'd enjoy the ISK in Eve much more than some skanky hoes that ain't giving you any action anyway. Hell, you are better off going to a bar and buying some hotties drinks than spending money at a strip club, at least you have a chance of going home with one of them.



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