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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 20:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jack Dant Drop jamming range closer to the other recons and you would probably see nobody undocking in a falcon ever again
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Nephilim Xeno
Pimebeka Mining Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.08 21:12:00 -
[32]
i support this the amount of falcons and rooks that fly around in low sec recently is just silly
there are even fleets that are made up by 25-50% of ECM ships only
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Zel Nughat
Nughat Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.22 12:07:00 -
[33]
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fuze
Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.12.22 13:00:00 -
[34]
CCP already said they were thinking of revising ECM/ECCM.
The other day we tried a setup with a recon with 2 ECCM and on a BS 2 remote ECCM and got up to 200 sensor strenght. The Falcon got 1 out of 3 score. Have more remote ECCM and Falcon still has a chance of getting off one cycle. Falcons are nice ships but they way they can use their bonuses caused the rock, paper, scissors to get skewed. ECCM should be able to negate it but currently its not. |
galphi
Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.12.22 13:18:00 -
[35]
Yes if someone decides to increase their resistance to falcons, having to sacrifice a medium or low slot can be painful. It should be a worthwhile sacrifice. Doesn't have to be a huge boost either, say, 15%-25%.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.23 02:28:00 -
[36]
Hmm maybe boost invu fields ,those should give 100% dmg proof for my caldari ships, it is called invulnerability field it should make me invu ^^
Oh and nerf turrets when nano nerf came ccp forgot to nerf turrets' trackings to match the change.Now everywhere you go (especially in eve) there are turret ships everywhere.
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Mikhale Romanov
Black Hats Delta
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Posted - 2008.12.23 04:19:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Mikhale Romanov on 23/12/2008 04:21:23
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: FlameGlow All those other recons have about 5 times more dps then falcon and twice its EHP, sure falcon is imba.
And wtf with "can't be rigged"? Particle dispersion projectors work not only for ecm but for painters, tracking disruptors and dampeners; learn to play instead of whining. There is egress port maximizer rig for pilgrim/curse as well.
Falcon dps really is a bit anemic, but its base EHP is actually slightly higher than that of a rapier or an arazu. If Falcon pilots decide not to fit any kind of tank or buffer in exchange for more jammers it's their decision, not part of the ship's limitations.
Drop jamming range closer to the other recons and you would probably see more tank and mwd on falcons.
Naw would just see more scorps/BB's.. much cheaper and same effect at that point.
Quote: Oh and nerf turrets when nano nerf came ccp forgot to nerf turrets' trackings to match the change.Now everywhere you go (especially in eve) there are turret ships everywhere.
No..there was always turret ships everywhere you go since about 80% of the ships in game use them (edit did not read the 2nd page first).null ZOMG Communism! |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.12.23 04:48:00 -
[38]
I agree.
Currently ECCM has no purpose at all until someone tries to jam you. Which then has little strength against ECM anyway.
My proposal is that 1 ECCM = 1 useless Jammer.
If you have 1 ECCM fit; and 1 ECM jammer starts cycling on you. It's worth nothing.
Much like Warpcore stabs; also since there's no skill which boosts your sensor strength. The current state of ECCM doesnt need to be nerfed that significantly. Instead of nearly doubling your sensor strength. Perhaps only 25% or so. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Xeno Xandovar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.12.23 09:49:00 -
[39]
/signed
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2008.12.23 19:33:00 -
[40]
Got my vote
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.24 11:08:00 -
[41]
Here's the thing...
Tracking computers help against tracking disruptors but also give a bonus at other times.
Sensor boosters help against dampeners but also give a bonus at other times.
ECCMs are very effective when you're being jammed, but just sit there when you're not.
Rather than boosting the bonus that ECCMs give, how about giving them another role on top of the bonus to sensor strength?
Another option would be to change the ECM mechanism is such a way that it again becomes possible to have an effective non-racial sensor strength on your ship (ie having RADAR on a Caldari ship), and then make the jamming ship overcome both sensor types.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Marconus Orion
Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.12.24 11:41:00 -
[42]
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Marconius
Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.12.24 11:42:00 -
[43]
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Ag'Ammemnon
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Posted - 2009.01.15 14:51:00 -
[44]
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Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 17:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Here's the thing...
ECCMs are very effective when you're being jammed, but just sit there when you're not.
Rather than boosting the bonus that ECCMs give, how about giving them another role on top of the bonus to sensor strength?
Sure make ECCM also give a limited protection against neut/nos effects or webbing
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:15:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 15/01/2009 19:17:32 I have proposed this several times before.
I believe that 25% boost to ECCM mods across the board would be a good change. It by no means would make ECCM users invulnerable to jammers. And it by no means make dedicated ECM ships useless as people fitting those mods are gimping their setups. |
Pattern Clarc
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:52:00 -
[47]
____
My Blog Is Awesome
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Hamoroid Hangcock
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:28:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Hamoroid Hang**** on 16/01/2009 01:29:59 Have to admit jamming is awsome, as it renders for 20 or more sec a highsp char into a noob for that period of time Nothing feels better/worse than that. Problem is not every falcon by itself ,but the hordes of chars extra trained, to jam the living **** out of people. Nothing against boosting ECCM,but make it chance based just like jamming |
ViolenTUK
Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 03:23:00 -
[49]
Falcons are far too strong. Every fight nowadays needs falcon support. I have seen 40 mill skill point players perma jammed by a new falcon pilot despite the fact that their dominix was dedicated to fortifing its own sensor strength. This shouldnt be possible.
Dont forget that with a falcon its not just that they are certain to jam you its that they can jam you and your entire gang simultaneously too thats the most ridiculous. |
Suitonia
interimo
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:35:00 -
[50]
ECCM needs to be stronger on smaller ships. I'd suggest changing it to a flat boost of +30 Strength Midslot, +15 lowslot. That way interceptors/frigates/ and otherships that are generally fast enough to close the range gap of the Falcon can actually have a decent chance of tackling it and killing it without getting jammed easily and Falcon warping off.
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Stalina
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: FlameGlow
All those other recons have about 5 times more dps then falcon and twice its EHP, sure falcon is imba.
All lvl 5 : Pilgrim : 985 shield, 2250 armor, 1090 hull; 6929 Effective HP Rapier : 1653 shield, 1336 armor, 1090 hull; 6381 Effective HP Arazu : 1406 shield, 1618 armor, 1090 hull; 6385 Effective HP Falcon : 2004 shield, 1195 armor, 1090 hull, 6637 Effective HP
Yes the falcon has only half the Hitpoints.
Now adding a little buffer to them ( only rapier and falcon used ) : Rapier with 2 LSE: 8215 shield; 18k Effective HP Falcon with 1 1600mm Rolled tungsten : 6445 armor; 16k Effective HP
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Motaka
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: ViolenTUK Falcons are far too strong. Every fight nowadays needs falcon support. I have seen 40 mill skill point players perma jammed by a new falcon pilot despite the fact that their dominix was dedicated to fortifing its own sensor strength. This shouldnt be possible.
Don'T forget that with a falcon its not just that they are certain to jam you its that they can jam you and your entire gang simultaneously too thats the most ridiculous.
This statement just sums up the amount of n00bs that have infested EvE lately.
Guess what,the falcon pilot has probably used most of his slots to jam your domi leaving the rest of your gang to scare away the falcon or are you saying the domi was on its own and you just want to whine for another 'I WIN' module. |
Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:02:00 -
[53]
People who defend current state of the Falcon refer to its balance from view of big fleet battles - at least anything more than 8 people or so.
I would agree that when it comes to big scale fighting, the power of falcon is smaller because it has major weaknesses that other people can exploit.
But when it comes to small scale combat, anything with less than 4 people on 1 side. Then the falcon becomes extremely powerful. It's strength - makes its own weaknesses immune to attack.
Anyway, we don't need to argue over theoretical advantages and disadvantages of Falcon. All we need to do is pull statistics from EVE database - the Falcons are everywhere, most people who play multiple accounts have a Falcon alt. Most people who fight against Falcon lose. Their dominance on small scale pvp is evident in the numbers you'll find, it would be no longer a question of debate but a statement of fact.
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Motaka
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:12:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Motaka on 16/01/2009 18:15:57 Oh boy you lot have got my blood boiling now.
I find it incredible that people [and by people i mean armour tankers] are crying about having to give up a mid-slot to fit ECCM,when their still able to MWD,scramble,cap inject,sensor boost and many other things whilst running a tank but shield user continually get it up the ass.
I think CCP should fix that imbalance before they even think about fixing ECM,i mean its only been imbalanced for 5 and half years _______________________________________________ Motaka ~ DirtyHarry ~ Original F-E Material |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 22:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Motaka
This statement just sums up the amount of n00bs that have infested EvE lately.
No this one has.
Originally by: Motaka
Guess what,the falcon pilot has probably used most of his slots to jam your domi leaving the rest of your gang to scare away the falcon or are you saying the domi was on its own and you just want to whine for another 'I WIN' module.
No. The Falcon would not need to use most of his mid slots to jam me. Typically one will be sufficient. As the rest of my gang would be similarly jammed it would make it difficult to scare anyone away. Even if ECCM were boosted sufficiently to be effective against a Falcon then this certainly wouldnÆt be an ôI winö button. The only ôI winö button here is the Falcons ECM modules.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 22:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Motaka I find it incredible that people [and by people i mean armour tankers] are crying about having to give up a mid-slot to fit ECCM,when their still able to MWD,scramble,cap inject,sensor boost and many other things whilst running a tank but shield user continually get it up the ass.
I think CCP should fix that imbalance before they even think about fixing ECM,i mean its only been imbalanced for 5 and half years
IÆm not crying about having to give up a single mid slot for ECCM. A pilot needs to fit his ship according to his opponent. What I donÆt like is the fact that a single falcon can jam 6 gang members who are all fortified with ECCM. That is far too strong. All fights these days have falcon pilots on both sides and the winner is either who jams first or who has the most Falcons. This is ludicrous
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Tervilious
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Posted - 2009.01.16 23:19:00 -
[57]
well tbh jamming needs to be hit hard with the nerf bat i fitted a hype with 3 Magnetometric Backup Array II and 3 ECCM - Magnetometric II and on all counts i was jammed by a falcon with one racial of each type tech II and a multi spec tech II i managed to lock the falcon for about 2 seconds which tbh just is not right and on the other hand aruzu's got hit way to hard with the nerf bat if falcons are not hit hard by the nerf bat reboost the sensor dampners and please this is not about chance i was jammed the coding i would say is at fault |
Motaka
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:09:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Originally by: Motaka I find it incredible that people [and by people i mean armour tankers] are crying about having to give up a mid-slot to fit ECCM,when their still able to MWD,scramble,cap inject,sensor boost and many other things whilst running a tank but shield user continually get it up the ass.
I think CCP should fix that imbalance before they even think about fixing ECM,i mean its only been imbalanced for 5 and half years
IÆm not crying about having to give up a single mid slot for ECCM. A pilot needs to fit his ship according to his opponent. What I donÆt like is the fact that a single falcon can jam 6 gang members who are all fortified with ECCM. That is far too strong. All fights these days have falcon pilots on both sides and the winner is either who jams first or who has the most Falcons. This is ludicrous
If your trying to tell that 1 falcon pilot perma jammed 6 of you and you were all carrying ECCM,i am going to come out and call you a liar.
A dominix carrying 1 ECCM has a magnometric sensor strength of 43,im sorry but a falcon is not going to perma jam anybody using 1 jammer.And you say there were 5 others in your gang all carrying ECCM.
So in closing,GBTWoW scrub,learn to counter your enemy before crying nerf.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Motaka
If your trying to tell that 1 falcon pilot perma jammed 6 of you and you were all carrying ECCM,i am going to come out and call you a liar.
Fact mate. I am not lying.
Originally by: Motaka
A dominix carrying 1 ECCM has a magnometric sensor strength of 43,im sorry but a falcon is not going to perma jam anybody using 1 jammer.And you say there were 5 others in your gang all carrying ECCM.
Well they do. Sorry mate.
Originally by: Motaka
So in closing,GBTWoW scrub,learn to counter your enemy before crying nerf.
I can counter a Falcon. I use another Falcon. Thats why this is so silly. It is obvious to me who is crying here.
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Tervilious
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:28:00 -
[60]
ERM NO that was fitted to one ship my hype and you can really tell when somone gets very aggresive about a subject and very defensive that deep down in there little soul they them selves know by the god of chance that the falcon is a win mode do all recons give you this advantage no !!!!! they dont. read what ive put and think about dont ramble think before you speak my mum taught me look at the whole picture every battle scence you can think of its not hard to work out what needs to be done
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