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Ctp Hawkeye
Caldari Vice And Valour
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:44:00 -
[1]
Is it jsut me, or is having a split top rack gonna gimp your DPS somewhat? The reason behind this, is that if say, im flying a merlin with 2 rocket launcehrs and 2 blasters, and a BCU, my blasters will not be benefiting. So you would fit a damage mod for the most damaging of your 2 weapons (probably blasters in this situation) to get a larger total gain in DPS.
This seems like less of a problem on battleships, like the 'phoon, as you can jsut fit it with one weapon system (i'd go torps and a few BCU's) and then the rest of the highs can be neuts, remote reps and the such.
What are the pro's of having a split top rack? Any situations where it can win you a fight having a different weapon, even if its unbonused and has no damage mod?
Your split weapon system views? -------------------------------------------------- Now accepting ISK for my rattlesnake fund -------------------------------------------------- |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 14/10/2008 02:49:16 There's no benefits. Phoon has to waste a bonus and twice as many damage mod slots to get the same efficiency of one weapon system.
Edit: except splitting damage types... if you care to consider that a "benefit". "Choosing" a damage type is usually a crapshoot anyway. Doing all damage types only means you'll hit across the entire EHP instead of a potential strength or hole.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: AstroPhobic There's no benefits. Phoon has to waste a bonus and twice as many damage mod slots to get the same efficiency of one weapon system.
This. Split weapons are a major drawback, and can turn an otherwise excellent ship into pure trash. The only reason the Typhoon is even remotely good is because torps are just so awesome that it can overcome having only 4x launchers.
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Hawkeye Alt
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:52:00 -
[4]
Is there any ship that actually uses split weapons and has its "role" to be a heavy hitter, for its class, and is half competent? (and not outdone by a comparablally fit counterpart?)
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:56:00 -
[5]
Well, you could argue the rupture has "split weapon systems" but it doesnt have split bonuses... you didn't say evenly split or split bonuses after all. And by that reasoning you could find a lot of them
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DubanFP
Caldari Kylia Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: DubanFP on 14/10/2008 03:41:39
Originally by: AstroPhobic Phoon has to waste a bonus and twice as many damage mod slots to get the same efficiency of one weapon system.
The sad part is that it's still the Minmitar's best PVP ship that doesn't require you to sacrifice tanking for tackling. The Typhoon isn't that bad because it can deal a lot of damage if you do fit for gank. The problem is the the split damage mods kill your tank though. _______________
"White, Black, Minmitar, Achura, Male or Female it doesn't mater to me. I'm an equal opportunity killer" |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:00:00 -
[7]
Pros: Major Lulz
Cons: Getting pwned in the face. _
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:00:00 -
[8]
Look at a typhoon, split weapons but afaik the highest potential DPS BS that exists
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Mymh Heretache
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ctp Hawkeye Is it jsut me, or is having a split top rack gonna gimp your DPS somewhat? The reason behind this, is that if say, im flying a merlin with 2 rocket launcehrs and 2 blasters, and a BCU, my blasters will not be benefiting.
This pretty much answers your question.
If you fly any ship that has viable slots for damage mods, you will reduce your damage (and quite possibly mix optimal range etc) if you split weapon types.
There's only one ship that I can think of on top of my head where I split damage types (not counting drones). That'd be my Amarr character flying his Heretic. I mix lasers and launchers on it, partially because I refuse to train any t2 missiles on an Amarr character, partially because the t2 gun skills he has is just superior. Partially because I can't fit a full rack of t2 lasers. And at the end of the day all my lows are dedicated for speed so who cares about damage anyway.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:44:00 -
[10]
The advantage is that you have a lot of utility slot available. The disadvantage is that you loose one ship skill bonus.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Ruciza
Minmatar The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:46:00 -
[11]
More damage when under EW influence. For example, when the Phoon is targeted by tracking disruptors, it still has half of its high slots to fight with.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 -
[12]
Typhoon is at its best in my opinion without any damage mods (900 ish DPS). It does require more skills than any other battleship, though. Besides the phoon, split weapon systems kinda suck. Except of course for my bold blastertorp rattlesnake. ----------------------
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Vireti
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:40:00 -
[13]
You mean there's a split weapon ship other than the phoon??
Love it or hate it the Typhoon is still the only bs that i won't go after solo, in fact i know afew people who will give one a very wide berth
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Burn Mac
Minmatar The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jin Entres Typhoon is at its best in my opinion without any damage mods (900 ish DPS). It does require more skills than any other battleship, though. Besides the phoon, split weapon systems kinda suck. Except of course for my bold blastertorp rattlesnake.
A 900 DPS Typhoon w/o damage mods? gief setup plx
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jin Entres on 14/10/2008 09:05:44
Originally by: Burn Mac
Originally by: Jin Entres Typhoon is at its best in my opinion without any damage mods (900 ish DPS). It does require more skills than any other battleship, though. Besides the phoon, split weapon systems kinda suck. Except of course for my bold blastertorp rattlesnake.
A 900 DPS Typhoon w/o damage mods? gief setup plx
4 Siege II w/ CN Torps 3 Dual 650mm II w/ RF EMP 1 Dual 425mm II w/ RF EMP
1 Quad Lif MWD 1 Warp Disruptor II 1 Fleeting Web 1 Conjunctive LADAR ECCM
1 DCU II 2 EANM II 4 1600mm Rolled Tungsten
3 Trimark I
5 Ogre II (+spare drones)
927 DPS with max skills and 157K EHP without any slaves ----------------------
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Burn Mac
Minmatar The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 14/10/2008 09:05:44
Originally by: Burn Mac
Originally by: Jin Entres Typhoon is at its best in my opinion without any damage mods (900 ish DPS). It does require more skills than any other battleship, though. Besides the phoon, split weapon systems kinda suck. Except of course for my bold blastertorp rattlesnake.
A 900 DPS Typhoon w/o damage mods? gief setup plx
4 Siege II w/ CN Torps 3 Dual 650mm II w/ RF EMP 1 Dual 425mm II w/ RF EMP
1 Quad Lif MWD 1 Warp Disruptor II 1 Fleeting Web 1 Conjunctive LADAR ECCM
1 DCU II 2 EANM II 4 1600mm Rolled Tungsten
3 Trimark I
5 Ogre II (+spare drones)
927 DPS with max skills and 157K EHP without any slaves
zomg! four plates? uh i mean needs MOAR PLATES!
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 14/10/2008 02:49:16 There's no benefits. Phoon has to waste a bonus and twice as many damage mod slots to get the same efficiency of one weapon system.
Edit: except splitting damage types... if you care to consider that a "benefit". "Choosing" a damage type is usually a crapshoot anyway. Doing all damage types only means you'll hit across the entire EHP instead of a potential strength or hole.
yup, its not split wepons so much as split bonus'. .. specilized ships are very good in pvp - especially if they have the right stuff. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:17:00 -
[18]
So much whine. Guess what, split weapon systems are on versitile ships. If you wanted straight gank ships you sure were deranged to pick minmatar.
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Catelco
Primera Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:47:00 -
[19]
Just a thought as I dont use split weapon ships: Most gank ships use 3 Damage mods (HS,BC,MFS,Gyro...) that suffer more or less stack penalty... eventually the fouth one is not worth.
Using split weapon systems you could use 4 damage mods (2BC, 2 gyros) and suffer less stack penalty and therefore achieve more DPS. Tank will be very slim for armor tankers but most gankships aren't great tankers.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Catelco Just a thought as I dont use split weapon ships: Most gank ships use 3 Damage mods (HS,BC,MFS,Gyro...) that suffer more or less stack penalty... eventually the fouth one is not worth.
Using split weapon systems you could use 4 damage mods (2BC, 2 gyros) and suffer less stack penalty and therefore achieve more DPS. Tank will be very slim for armor tankers but most gankships aren't great tankers.
You would think, but that isn't the case. With 2 of both damage types, a phoon with 4/4 siege + dual 650 with CN/RF ammo and ogres achieves roughly 1.2k DPS which is what you can achieve with a 3 damage mod mega/hype/domi/geddon/abbie/raven so there really is no significant benefit, instead you're just wasting slots. Even with 6 damage mods the dps is not more than 1330 ish which many of the other single weapon system battleships can achieve with 3-4 damage mods. ----------------------
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Catelco Just a thought as I dont use split weapon ships: Most gank ships use 3 Damage mods (HS,BC,MFS,Gyro...) that suffer more or less stack penalty... eventually the fouth one is not worth.
Using split weapon systems you could use 4 damage mods (2BC, 2 gyros) and suffer less stack penalty and therefore achieve more DPS. Tank will be very slim for armor tankers but most gankships aren't great tankers.
Hehehehe. Take BS 1 and BS 2.
BS 1 deals 1000 DPS (500+500) with split weapons, BS 2 deals 1000 DPS with 1 weapon system.
You fit 3 damage mods on BS1, each giving 20% (assuming 0.87 for 2nd and 0.55 effectiveness for 3rd as I forgot exact stacking penalities). BS 1: 1562 DPS
Now, fit 2+2 damage mods on BS 2, (each giving 20%, assuming 0.87 for 2nd mod). BS 2: 704 + 704 DPS = 1408 DPS
Oh, wait - you just spent 4 slots and got less DPS then the BS using 3 slots. In fact, to match BS 1, you need to spend 6 slots!
Basically: a*x=(b*x+c*x) if (b+c=a)
The only reason why a eg Typhoon has high teorethical DPS output is that it gets a high base DPS output without damage mods. Multiple weapon systems just mean that you have to spend twice the mods to modify your overall damage output by a equal overall percentage as the single weapon system ship.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Catelco
Primera Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:10:00 -
[22]
Thanks...now with the numbers I see the flawled logic...
Each Damage mod only affects half the total DPS...
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Corstaad
Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:11:00 -
[23]
After heatsinks it means your not pointing launchers on those few extra slots anymore.
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