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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1846
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:34:00 -
[121] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote:[ There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker. How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me). Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre. Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media. I am sure you can see the connection. Waving the url around these forums isn't harassment, because you can opt out at any time. It's the internet. People sending it to your workplace absolutely crosses a line but so does your implying that 'Alex' was involved.
How exactly do I "opt out" of the harrassment ? Presumeably by quitting the game. Isn't that the definition of cyberbullying we've been discussing this evening. Bringing ooc pressure on somebody on the internet to win a metagaming war?
As for implying that Alexander Gianturco was behind it. I only have circumstantial evidence, the url surfaced at the time of my csm01 run in 2008 and was used by a number of Goonswarm director characters on these forums and sent to my rl work placement in the form of an email from a disposable email account.
Can I prove Alex was behind it? Of course not. Do I strongly suspect he had knowledge of it - you betcha. Am I reminded of this attempt to discredit me in the eyes of a rl contract placement where I earn my living each time a member of goonswarm bring this stuff up for trolling on the forums - yep.
And its very much a case in point tonight.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.) Oh right its not cyber-bullying if it happens to a goon because ~live by the sword. edit: http://twitter.com/#!/LiangNuren/status/185924104279425024
This community is irredeemable.
E: @Jade Constantine
You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
658
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:39:00 -
[123] - Quote
Zirise wrote:
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar.
Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here.
google: incitement to suicide. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
Allandi wrote:Then whats the problem? Do you complain this much about real life political commercials which expose another candidate's youthful indiscretions?
Please point to all my 3 or 4 posts of complaints confined to this thread, I am so sorry if I have overburdened the EVE community.
The problem is people are waving banners of ~moral outrage~ when it has a lot more to do with axes that need grinding. |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote:[ There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker. How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me). Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre. Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media. I am sure you can see the connection. Waving the url around these forums isn't harassment, because you can opt out at any time. It's the internet. People sending it to your workplace absolutely crosses a line but so does your implying that 'Alex' was involved. How exactly do I "opt out" of the harrassment ? Presumeably by quitting the game. Isn't that the definition of cyberbullying we've been discussing this evening. Bringing ooc pressure on somebody on the internet to win a metagaming war? As for implying that Alexander Gianturco was behind it. I only have circumstantial evidence, the url surfaced at the time of my csm01 run in 2008 and was used by a number of Goonswarm director characters on these forums and sent to my rl work placement in the form of an email from a disposable email account. Can I prove Alex was behind it? Of course not. Do I strongly suspect he had knowledge of it - you betcha. Am I reminded of this attempt to discredit me in the eyes of a rl contract placement where I earn my living each time a member of goonswarm bring this stuff up for trolling on the forums - yep. And its very much a case in point tonight.
So you don't have any evidence, right. End of discussion.
Anyways its fairly easy to block me and all the other 'cyberbullies' both on this website and in the game. So yea, as long as it's kept firmly online it really is HTFU or GTFO.
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:45:00 -
[126] - Quote
Zirise wrote:when he got drunk and attempted to bully someone into suicide.
SNIP******
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
You can continue to beat this dead Bee, but it's not gonna come back to life....
If someone else did or said something stupid, they deserve whatever happens to them, but it isn't relevant to Mittani's case. He screwed up. As a retired person with a legal background, he knew the dangers of standing up in front of a live feed, yet he did, and embarrassed himself. He should heve expected this, and been glad it's not worse....
Still looking for those mighty forum warrior Bees that seem to bee missing from the Forums....
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:49:00 -
[127] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote: E: @Jade Constantine
You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste.
Correct. Giving out personal information even if others have learned it publicly is not allowed regardless of the issues that surround it. You said it yourself, is circumstantial, and only used probablies. However you do not know that for fact, same way that people issuing statements of RL issues in game you do not know for fact or false. As such, follow the evidence and report on that. Unless enough is available to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, you should not be using a real name or targeting the player. When/If you do have undeniable proof, then you take it to the law.
@Beekeeper bob They probably aren't posting because that is going to cause more harm than good. Probably have been asked not to exasterbate the issue which is what us other players should be doing. Lets take it in game, let them speak with guns! |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
98
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar. Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here. google: incitement to suicide.
It's very similar. 'Kill yourself' is supposedly edgy or cool or something in many online communities. I can't profess to know what the hell Mittens was thinking (and neither can he, most likely) but it certainly came across as him trying to be ~edgy and ~cool. It did not come across as threatening or literal.
Do you actually believe that Mittens was genuinely trying to incite people to harass a person into committing suicide? Really?
|
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1849
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:49:00 -
[129] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste.
Running for CSM involves giving up one's internet anonymity. I have done it (hence you know I'm known as Andrew Cruse irl) and Alexander Gianturco has done it. So don't attempt to legal-shizzle me with your voodoo nonsense please.
As I noted elsewhere the person who claimed to reveal Alexander's address on the eve-radio channel tonight was very bad. They got petitioned (and I understand) dealt with. Whether it was the real address or just troll is irrelevant at this point. Metagaming should leave people's rl out of in-game conflicts.
Which is precisely the point I was making with the goons continuing the use of a troll url that was created specifically to attempt to get me in trouble with my rl employers in 2008. If you want to join me in opposing the abuse of eve players via ooc harrassment then by all means join me in condemning such things without partizan boundaries. Otherwise your opinions become quite suspect.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Allandi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Allandi wrote:Then whats the problem? Do you complain this much about real life political commercials which expose another candidate's youthful indiscretions? Please point to all my 3 or 4 posts of complaints confined to this thread, I am so sorry if I have overburdened the EVE community. The problem is people are waving banners of ~moral outrage~ when it has a lot more to do with axes that need grinding.
Question was more rhetorical and not necessarily directed at you.
Regardless, some people ARE morally outraged at his behavior. By some moral standards, he stepped pretty far over the line in his dealings with another human being.
Personally, I would never do what he did, drunk or not, and I don't know anyone personally that could act so callously in real life. Again, it may be a joke, but someone was on the ass end of a very hurtful and hateful joke.
I'm the type of person that doesn't watch shock videos because I don't like to see other people in pain, so I'm far more squishy than the average EVE player. |
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1849
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:53:00 -
[131] - Quote
Zirise wrote: Anyways its fairly easy to block me and all the other 'cyberbullies' both on this website and in the game. So yea, as long as it's kept firmly online it really is HTFU or GTFO.
But of course it hasn't been kept firmly online has it. People know precisely where this material has been used and why and its played a very definite role in attempted out of character harrassment of an eve player who just happened to be "an enemy" of your coalition.
HTFO or GTFO sounds again like trolling somebody into quitting the game?
Do you think I should end my eve subscription and leave this game as a result of your harrassment?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:54:00 -
[132] - Quote
Zirise wrote: It's very similar. 'Kill yourself' is supposedly edgy or cool or something in many online communities. I can't profess to know what the hell Mittens was thinking (and neither can he, most likely) but it certainly came across as him trying to be ~edgy and ~cool. It did not come across as threatening or literal.
Do you actually believe that Mittens was genuinely trying to incite people to harass a person into committing suicide? Really?
Myself I don't think that. Is why it was only a 30 day ban. Partially because even as jest, if there was a suicide risk then the jest could have caused harm. Of course also the statements of EULA. If intention was clearly sincere for some really strange reason, I think we all agree it would have been permanent and possibly even more ramifications. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
662
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:57:00 -
[133] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar. Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here. google: incitement to suicide. It's very similar. 'Kill yourself' is supposedly edgy or cool or something in many online communities. I can't profess to know what the hell Mittens was thinking (and neither can he, most likely) but it certainly came across as him trying to be ~edgy and ~cool. It did not come across as threatening or literal. Do you actually believe that Mittens was genuinely trying to incite people to harass a person into committing suicide? Really?
Except he did not say "kill yourself". He specifically directed other individuals (potentially thousands) to harass a specific EVE player with the objective that that player would kill himself in real life.
He created an entire slideshow and presentation beforehand to set this up. "I was drunk and an *******" is not a positive defense here. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote: Anyways its fairly easy to block me and all the other 'cyberbullies' both on this website and in the game. So yea, as long as it's kept firmly online it really is HTFU or GTFO.
But of course it hasn't been kept firmly online has it. People know precisely where this material has been used and why and its played a very definite role in attempted out of character harrassment of an eve player who just happened to be "an enemy" of your coalition. HTFO or GTFO sounds again like trolling somebody into quitting the game? Do you think I should end my eve subscription and leave this game as a result of your harrassment?
As a result of my harassment? What harassment? Posting something you wrote online under the name of your EVE character to the EVE forums isn't harassment. If I mailed it to your workplace or family or whatever than yea, please come sue me or whatever but I didn't. You also have no proof that The Mittani or any other Goon was involved in anything outside of posting it across the internet and its shameful that you're implying that.
Almost as shameful as you referring to the Mittani by his real name in quotes in hopes of further defaming him.
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Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:02:00 -
[135] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar. Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here. google: incitement to suicide. It's very similar. 'Kill yourself' is supposedly edgy or cool or something in many online communities. I can't profess to know what the hell Mittens was thinking (and neither can he, most likely) but it certainly came across as him trying to be ~edgy and ~cool. It did not come across as threatening or literal. Do you actually believe that Mittens was genuinely trying to incite people to harass a person into committing suicide? Really? Except he did not say "kill yourself". He specifically directed other individuals (potentially thousands) to harass a specific EVE player with the objective so that that player would kill himself. He setup an entire slideshow and presentation beforehand. "I was drunk and an *******" is not a positive defense here.
You and I both know there would be the same level of outcry had he even 'just' said kill yourself. It's simply an alien concept to anyone outside some areas of internet culture.
Anyways we can keep debating this but obviously you think The Mittani implied he wanted people to encourage this guy to kill himself and I don't. vOv
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Ai Shun
521
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:02:00 -
[136] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Almost as shameful as you referring to the Mittani by his real name in quotes in hopes of further defaming him.
Exactly. Jade Constantine is disgusting in this; playing a political game with people - using a real name and making those types of allegations. I've reported the post for harassment, crossing the boundaries between the game and RL and I would strongly suggest that if you have an issue with the post you do the same. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
Zirise wrote: As a result of my harassment? What harassment? Posting something you wrote online under the name of your EVE character to the EVE forums isn't harassment. If I mailed it to your workplace or family or whatever than yea, please come sue me or whatever but I didn't. You also have no proof that The Mittani or any other Goon was involved in anything outside of posting it across the internet and its shameful that you're implying that.
Well haven't you already admitted that the reason you are using the same goon-hosted url to make out I'm an internet prositute that was sent to my employers is to harrass "my character" ooc? You've already said its in an attempt to get me to quit the game. Its basically harrassment of an eve player in on an ooc level.
You are not using material I use to roleplay my character, you are using a url that was created by goonswarm to harrass me ooc and try to get me fired from a rl job.
One might consider that a fairly serious breach of the eula.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Allandi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:07:00 -
[138] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Zirise wrote:
People tell people to kill themselves all the time on the internet, it's virtually never intended to be taken as serious. The Mittani, in a moment of drunkenness forgot that this culture doesn't extend to the world at large. It really is that simple.
First point, agreed. However, telling a large group of individuals to harass a very specific person with the specific goal of that person committing suicide is not even close to being similar. Drunkenness or levity is not an invokable defense here. google: incitement to suicide. It's very similar. 'Kill yourself' is supposedly edgy or cool or something in many online communities. I can't profess to know what the hell Mittens was thinking (and neither can he, most likely) but it certainly came across as him trying to be ~edgy and ~cool. It did not come across as threatening or literal. Do you actually believe that Mittens was genuinely trying to incite people to harass a person into committing suicide? Really? Except he did not say "kill yourself". He specifically directed other individuals (potentially thousands) to harass a specific EVE player with the objective so that that player would kill himself. He setup an entire slideshow and presentation beforehand. "I was drunk and an *******" is not a positive defense here. You and I both know there would be the same level of outcry had he even 'just' said kill yourself. It's simply an alien concept to anyone outside some areas of internet culture. Anyways we can keep debating this but obviously you think The Mittani implied he wanted people to encourage this guy to kill himself and I don't. vOv
I doubt his goal was to see the guy seriously off himself. But at the same time, he had to be aware that a huge chunk of his alliance-mates would actually do what he said and endlessly harass the fellow (had there not been warnings made about it). |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Cold Hand of Shadow
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:10:00 -
[139] - Quote
lol all you people who are continuing this tirade against The Mittani are becoming that which you seem to despise so much. Group think, bandwagoning, and blind acceptance are all dangerous things. |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:12:00 -
[140] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote: As a result of my harassment? What harassment? Posting something you wrote online under the name of your EVE character to the EVE forums isn't harassment. If I mailed it to your workplace or family or whatever than yea, please come sue me or whatever but I didn't. You also have no proof that The Mittani or any other Goon was involved in anything outside of posting it across the internet and its shameful that you're implying that. Well haven't you already admitted that the reason you are using the same goon-hosted url to make out I'm an internet prositute that was sent to my employers is to harrass "my character" ooc? You've already said its in an attempt to get me to quit the game. Its basically harrassment of an eve player in on an ooc level. You are not using material I use to roleplay my character, you are using a url that was created by goonswarm to harrass me ooc and try to get me fired from a rl job. One might consider that a fairly serious breach of the eula.
I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
If words on the internet hurt your feelings too much than either block me and move on or avoid the forums or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much. |
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Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
664
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
Zirise wrote:
Anyways we can keep debating this but obviously you think The Mittani implied he wanted people to encourage this guy to kill himself and I don't. vOv
His drunken intentions at the time does not matter whatsoever, what was actually said in front of an audience of thousands is what matters.
In some countries (such as Australia) he would be jailed for his public incitement to suicide regardless of his intent or sobriety. He should thank his lucky stars he was in Iceland, and that the player whom his speech was directed at did not press charges in the US after he arrived home.
But, no. Keep telling everyone it's the media's fault, he didn't mean it, and he is only the fall guy for a media lynch mob.It's only because he's the self-proclaimed internet spaceships spy-master that what he said is not intended to be a factual statement. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
634
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:18:00 -
[142] - Quote
Originally I was upset
But his twitter said he would step down, apologies, give isk to guy. I thought thats awesome.
But then step down, became resign from CSM6 but still be on CSM7 I was pretty WTF about that. It was at that point that the apology became hollow to me. As it felt like he was just doing it to keep his power. And that you really didnt understand the gravity of the situation. This is when it all spun out of control.
Then the goons started their barrage of crap on the forums with illogical garbage and pretty much condoned what mittens had done. You should have ordered them not to say a freaking thing about it. But they spammed the threads up and elevated it even more.
It only reinforced what I understood of the situation, that unless something highly visible was done about the incident it wouldnt matter. So i believed a ban of some length had to be done next.
And yes it was cyber bullying mittens. Of the worst sort. And it was incitement to suicide. You yourself say there are crazy people in even who send me death threats and more. Yet you turn around at fanfest and light the fuse to have people harass a player to his death? Jest or not with your understanding as you say of the crazies on the internet means you cant weasel out of the responsibility of your actions or the ramifications those actions might have had on a real person.
Then the state of the goonion....Lots of crying of it being CCPs fault. "No im really sincere about my apology, no really I am, but its really these other guys fault? they tossed me under a bus, so lets take it out on everyone else get on the forums and make it worse Goons." To paraphrase, Are you flipping kidding?
Then you go on eve radio, after understanding the damage of having your IRL name used and start throwing out another persons name left and right. Are you mental? What ever your reasons and self justification you just come off as even more childish in this. More bullying tactics at play.
Also the blame shifting, finger wagging, and the I did bad but its everyone's elses fault too?
Freaking stop with the childish baloney already. You keep making it worse. The its all the big bad media line is a bunch of bullcrap buttherpdedeurp.
Also it was CYBERBULLYING. The attempts to redefine it by saying ITS KIDS DOING IT PRIMARILY is sickening. My cousin wasn't a child when he killed himself from harassment. Done by people that thought they were just joking. You are the ringmaster of a gang of cyberbullies. Now your are going to bully everyone to fix your PR? WTF?
You keep making it worse every step of the way.
You are a public figure and as such open to public discussion of your actions and behavior. You put yourself out there like that.
Also eve radio, nice bull-crap soft balling you did there. Fluff mittens some more for us. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Zain Andreas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:19:00 -
[143] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Can I prove Alex was behind it? Of course not.
Great, thanks for the post. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:21:00 -
[144] - Quote
Zirise wrote: I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
Well you are re-using a goon-hosted URL that was created to try to get me fired from my job when I was running a CSM campaign against the favoured goon candidate in 2008. The fact you are doing this could be taken as a "threat" that you intend to do this again. Perhaps my current contract clients are going to get an email tomorrow from an "anonymous" source saying that I'm a person of low moral character working as an internet prostitute. How am I supposed to know? Every time you bring this up to the forums I could well feel its a direct threat that means .... "unless you stop arguing against Goonswarm interests we're going to try to get you fired." Stranger things have happened in Eve.
Zirise wrote:... or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much.
And thats the problem I was talking about. You goons take it too far. You don't draw the line at ganking people's ships or wardecing alliances or stealing from hangers or intriguing against coalitions - you have to take it that much futher and turn it into harrassing the individual players OUT OF GAME to try to make them QUIT the game. And you still can't see why this is incompatible with a health community attitude.
You ahve just taken this too far into direct harrassment of another player. Just like Alexander Gianturco did, and just like he is not complaining of himself.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:28:00 -
[145] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote: I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
Well you are re-using a goon-hosted URL that was created to try to get me fired from my job when I was running a CSM campaign against the favoured goon candidate in 2008. The fact you are doing this could be taken as a "threat" that you intend to do this again. Perhaps my current contract clients are going to get an email tomorrow from an "anonymous" source saying that I'm a person of low moral character working as an internet prostitute. How am I supposed to know? Every time you bring this up to the forums I could well feel its a direct threat that means .... "unless you stop arguing against Goonswarm interests we're going to try to get you fired." Stranger things have happened in Eve. Zirise wrote:... or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much. And thats the problem I was talking about. You goons take it too far. You don't draw the line at ganking people's ships or wardecing alliances or stealing from hangers or intriguing against coalitions - you have to take it that much futher and turn it into harrassing the individual players OUT OF GAME to try to make them QUIT the game. And you still can't see why this is incompatible with a healthy community attitude. You have just taken this too far into direct harrassment of another player. Just like Alexander Gianturco did, and just like he is not complaining of himself.
So basically all you have are hypotheticals from start to finish.
I did not imply I wanted you to leave the game or that my goal was to remove you from the game. My 'goal' is to express my opinion that what you're saying is wrong and that you're attempting to further tarnish The Mittani by laying these baseless accusations tied to his real name.
The url of your roleplaying is cemented in stone on the internet, its not a goon link. If it shames you so much why did you attach your character name to it? It's no different than someone looking through my post history and dragging out all the terrible posts I've made.
There are plenty of options available to you that allow you to both avoid people like me (if it actually bothers you) and continue playing the game but you don't seem interested in listening. |
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
634
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:30:00 -
[146] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote: I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
Well you are re-using a goon-hosted URL that was created to try to get me fired from my job when I was running a CSM campaign against the favoured goon candidate in 2008. The fact you are doing this could be taken as a "threat" that you intend to do this again. Perhaps my current contract clients are going to get an email tomorrow from an "anonymous" source saying that I'm a person of low moral character working as an internet prostitute. How am I supposed to know? Every time you bring this up to the forums I could well feel its a direct threat that means .... "unless you stop arguing against Goonswarm interests we're going to try to get you fired." Stranger things have happened in Eve. Zirise wrote:... or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much. And thats the problem I was talking about. You goons take it too far. You don't draw the line at ganking people's ships or wardecing alliances or stealing from hangers or intriguing against coalitions - you have to take it that much futher and turn it into harrassing the individual players OUT OF GAME to try to make them QUIT the game. And you still can't see why this is incompatible with a healthy community attitude. You have just taken this too far into direct harrassment of another player. Just like Alexander Gianturco did, and just like he is now complaining the media is doing to his name. Somewhere this cycle needs to stop otherwise this community will always be warring until it tears itself apart.
This is what makes mittens saying he is not a cyber bully a joke. Even if he is not doing it in game he is pushing is goons to do it for him. Mob bosses are charged with the crimes their follower do at their behest all the time. This has many parallels with what the goons do.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:32:00 -
[147] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote: I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
Well you are re-using a goon-hosted URL that was created to try to get me fired from my job when I was running a CSM campaign against the favoured goon candidate in 2008. The fact you are doing this could be taken as a "threat" that you intend to do this again. Perhaps my current contract clients are going to get an email tomorrow from an "anonymous" source saying that I'm a person of low moral character working as an internet prostitute. How am I supposed to know? Every time you bring this up to the forums I could well feel its a direct threat that means .... "unless you stop arguing against Goonswarm interests we're going to try to get you fired." Stranger things have happened in Eve. Zirise wrote:... or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much. And thats the problem I was talking about. You goons take it too far. You don't draw the line at ganking people's ships or wardecing alliances or stealing from hangers or intriguing against coalitions - you have to take it that much futher and turn it into harrassing the individual players OUT OF GAME to try to make them QUIT the game. And you still can't see why this is incompatible with a healthy community attitude. You have just taken this too far into direct harrassment of another player. Just like Alexander Gianturco did, and just like he is now complaining the media is doing to his name. Somewhere this cycle needs to stop otherwise this community will always be warring until it tears itself apart. This is what makes mittens saying he is not a cyber bully a joke. Even if he is not doing it in game he is pushing is goons to do it for him. Mob bosses are charged with the crimes their follower do at their behest all the time. This has many parallels with what the goons do.
Yea! Look at all that proof! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:37:00 -
[148] - Quote
Zirise wrote: So basically all you have are hypotheticals from start to finish. I did not imply I wanted you to leave the game or that my goal was to remove you from the game.
Thats exactly what you implied in fact and you said if I wasn't "tough enough" to put up with you posting the url that was used to try and get me fired in 2008 I should leave the game.
Zirise wrote: My 'goal' is to express my opinion that what you're saying is wrong and that you're attempting to further tarnish The Mittani by laying these baseless accusations tied to his real name.
As baseless as the accusation I have been an internet prostitute in real life such as that the accusation should be sent to my employer? You have proof I've been paid for sex ? Tax returns maybe? Or is this a baseless accusation too?
Zirise wrote: The url of your roleplaying is cemented in stone on the internet, its not a goon link. If it shames you so much why did you attach your character name to it? It's no different than someone looking through my post history and dragging out all the terrible posts I've made.
It is a goon url that was created in 2008 to attempt (I have to assume) to get me sacked from the job I was doing during the CSM1 election campaign. The goon leadership (and that means Alexander Gianturco) have kept it "on tap" ever since to presumably remind me that any time they fancy they can mess with my rl employment prospects. Perhaps I should be talking to the media about this kind of thing? Cyber-bullying is big news and all that.
Zirise wrote: There are plenty of options available to you that allow you to both avoid people like me (if it actually bothers you) and continue playing the game but you don't seem interested in listening.
Well one of those options is to convince YOU that harrassing a player out of character and leveraging a rl threat against their livelihood is not a good way to go. If you want to shut me up on these forums and stop criticising your GREAT LEADER - then how about you drop a wardec on my alliance and come and grief us into stations for a month.
PLAY THE GAME. Stop trying to break the boundaries between GAME AND REAL-LIFE.
That is the point I'm trying to make for you.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Thats exactly what you implied in fact and you said if I wasn't "tough enough" to put up with you posting the url that was used to try and get me fired in 2008 I should leave the game.
No, I said that you could block the people in and out of game and failing that you could of course leave. There is a big difference.
Jade Constantine wrote: As baseless as the accusation I have been an internet prostitute in real life such as that the accusation should be sent to my employer? You have proof I've been paid for sex ? Tax returns maybe? Or is this a baseless accusation too?
Where did I imply that? I think your roleplaying is pretty funny and pretty stupid, but nowhere did I imply that you're a prostitute. And even if I did, I didn't attach it to your real name.
Jade Constantine wrote: It is a goon url that was created in 2008 to attempt (I have to assume) to get me sacked from the job I was doing during the CSM1 election campaign. The goon leadership (and that means Alexander Gianturco) have kept it "on tap" ever since to presumably remind me that any time they fancy they can mess with my rl employment prospects. Perhaps I should be talking to the media about this kind of thing? Cyber-bullying is big news and all that.
I just used eve search and found it within minutes. Obviously someone out there decided to endanger your employment (something absolutely reprehensible) but you don't know it was a Goon and you certainly can't imply it was the Goons at large or Mittens, who wasn't even actively playing EVE at that time.
Jade Constantine wrote: Well one of those options is to convince YOU that harrassing a player out of character and leveraging a rl threat against their livelihood is not a good way to go. If you want to shut me up on these forums and stop criticising your GREAT LEADER - then how about you drop a wardec on my alliance and come and grief us into stations for a month.
Again, where have I harassed you? The only one who has done any harassing in this thread is you with your continued baseless accusations attached to real people's names, something you don't seem to understand the gravity of. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:47:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: PLAY THE GAME. Stop trying to break the boundaries between GAME AND REAL-LIFE.
That is the point I'm trying to make for you.
You continue to use Mitten's full name every time you mention him. You're such a hypocrite. |
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