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To CVA regarding firing on Amarr Militia members.

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Author	Topic
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:24:00 - [91] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Elise Randolph You seem to have missed the point, which is partially my fault I'm sure. Armada just made public what CVA's actions were, and what they felt to be appropriate. CVA and CVA allies alike then all felt the sudden urge to say how awful and useless that we are, and how both Armada and Slackers were the s**of the universe. Really not called for, especially since Armada is only guilty of flying alongside Slackers and nothing more, and yet they get ridiculed. Armada's position was quickly and politely acknowledged. It was quite some time before any member of CVA weighed in again, and that was only after misconception after misconception was thrown about (discouting[sic], of course, the various insults.) You did quickly and politely acknowledge it, and I did point this out. You have, in the past, acted in the most pragmatic of ways. However, as one can easily see, PIE were the first to cast the first stones. I know that PIE are currently not members of CVA, but they do have a close relationship. This coupled with the fact that CVA pilots seemingly picked up the torch that PIE lit, figuratively burning down the name of both Armada and Slacker Industries. You read the scathing, and uncalled for remarks by some of your pilots Originally by:** Ikar Kaltin Wraithstorm, if the Empire allows for alliances to become involved in the crusade I can assure you that the services of you and your pirate friends will only be needed for hauling garbage scows. how can you, in good conscience, deny the ugly tone of these remarks? It's handled by Rovianesque rhetoric, side-stepping the issues entirely. Regardless, I have reached the point where I do not care. I am receiving more support from Yendaj and MirrorGod, people whom I fight day in and day out, than I am from people who are fighting on the so-called "same side". Even my enemies don't stoop to the level of name calling smear tactics. I came here to this open forum to defend the rights of my friends, not to have my accomplishments spat upon by some ostentatious, arm-chair warriors. I'm disgusted by your compatriots Garreck, I can honestly say I expected more; maybe being too nice is a character flaw. I have no qualms with you, but I no longer find myself wanting, or willing, to defend the boarders with you. If I find myself flying through the Bleak Lands and I see you in distress, I will assist you. And I will assist you knowing full well that when your compatriots arrive they will attempt to kill me, even whilst I am shooting warriors off of your ship. But as someone earlier so eloquently put it: if you continue to kick the dog, one day you will find that he hasn't returned home. I am not leaving this discussion satiated in any sense of the word; no, I am leaving completely and utterly disgusted. If I may, I suggest you put a muzzle on your compatriots if you want to avoid further embarrassment. Circular rhetoric will only get you so far in the eyes of the public. ----------
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:25:00 - [92] Originally by: Yendaj We are wasting our breath Not at all, Yendaj. Tell us more about how Heretic Nation, a known enemy of the Empire, finds CVA to be inept, stupid, tactically and strategically unsound, arrogant, and unimportant. Make sure to finish it all off by tagging on an insult about Amarrians that fits the same profile. You might just make the case for CVA loyalty for me!
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:36:00 - [93] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Yendaj We are wasting our breath Not at all, Yendaj. Tell us more about how Heretic Nation, a known enemy of the Empire, finds CVA to be inept, stupid, tactically and strategically unsound, arrogant, and unimportant. Make sure to finish it all off by tagging on an insult about Amarrians that fits the same profile. You might just make the case for CVA loyalty for me! I am sorry, for a minute there I forgot I was part of the Amarrian Militia........ How very silly of me to not follow my own knowledge and instincts as a MINMATAR! If there's any mistake in my sarcastic tone... Let me rephrase for you I am a Minmatar warrior... I am considered an enemy of the Amarr Empire... I am rather proud to fight for the freedom of my people... I find your constant side stepping and prosing to be rather comical.. I have no problem pointing out the considerable failings of my enemies, they seriously outnumber any of the good qualities I might be able to see were my rose tinted glasses the same colour as the rest of the Empire's.. I wonder who will take up the "slack" now that the dog isnt too happy about coming home?? CVA going to finally step up and actually do all that hard work and Minmatar killing they are so adamant they perform so regularly? Or will you continue to kill your own warriors in the name of policy??? Such a proud day for the Empire.... Having CVA as their biggest support act... ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:38:00 - [94] The Holding of providence holds no sway with me or anyone in the militia it seems as a way of assisting the empire your built up stations and market is no small feat, this i know for i have build stations, developed regional markets lead an alliance and had to deal with hostiles but in the current situation the market and facilities are no benefit to amarr militia as we use amarr for shopping and in regards to gathering resources in 0.0 no alliance no matter how big can prevent an experienced pilot from taking what he/she wants i do not support your claim to call slackers pirates either for their actions were done in lawless space where concord does not interfere, you claim them pirates but in the end theyre just targets in 0.0 space. so until providence is claimed as sovereign amarr space under the banner of the new empress which i doubt it ever will only concord decides who pirates are and those actions are commited in low security space so in this particular instance its you who commited piracy ---------------------------------------------
RedLion Caldari Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 07:25:00 - [95] ((OOC: Can people from the different militias start posting IC, this is IS, not CAOD)) Hi there, I do question certain corporations presence in Amarr Militia. I certainly hope that the leaders of the Imperial Guard have installed remote self destruction modules in Slacker Industries ships, in case these terrorists once again wants to ally with Minmatar forces. A common enemy does not make us friends. It is regretably that Amarr have internal conflicts and that it hinders the destruction of Minmatar outlaws. But I don't think that this particular case is CVAs fault. As a non-believer only here aiding allies of the State, I do not know CVA's policy on cleansing your sins and repent your actions. But assisting Minmatar fractions are one of the most serious crimes pilots can make against the Empire. However, don't think for a second that if the Empire wants to come with their navy in cooperation with Concord and help secure Providence we would FULLY support it, even if it meant loss of a lot of our industries which understandably can not be tolerated in high security systems, even from such a loyal entity as CVA. The day Providence is secure, we don't need our industry, we can retire, and enjoy a nice cigar over mission accomplished. For us in CVA, we figth with our heart, for the Empire, for what we believe in. Slacker Industries are hypocrites when they try say we figth for Amarr in null-sec solar systems just for our own greed, when they have privateered for some of the worst Minmatar friendly alliances in the whole known universe. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.05 09:40:00 - [96] Originally by: Elise Randolph However, as one can easily see, PIE were the first to cast the first stones. I know that PIE are currently not members of CVA, but they do have a close relationship. This coupled with the fact that CVA pilots seemingly picked up the torch that PIE lit, figuratively burning down the name of both Armada and Slacker Industries. As I pointed out earlier, the best way to get the CVA to stop shooting at you is to contact them privately to resolve your differences, not complaining about them on the forums. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Iqnius Minmatar Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 11:02:00 - [97] Edited by: Iqnius on 05/10/2008 11:02:08 I'm pretty much pants at this RP crap (Greme <3), I'm not as intelligent nor as clever as many of you writing these long sentences so I'll keep it nice and short. What is the point? Wether or not SL has given you guys grief in the past, technically we are both on the same side now.... Just seems logical for the time being to drop whatever issue you have with SL while we are both fighting a common cause... My 2 cents on this.
Yuki Li Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.05 11:25:00 - [98] Originally by: RedLion As a non-believer only here aiding allies of the State The State does not give a damn about Providence. The Caldari people definitely do not give a damn about Providence. Please unplug your head from whatever cavernous orifice it is that you have successfully inserted it into. I'm sure you do love playing tag the control tower with a bunch of Revelation class dreadnaughts, but it's not really helping anyone but yourselves, is it. Do CVA really have to allow their sense of self importance to grow so large they trip over it every morning on the way to the bathroom before they'll let sleeping dogs lie and get on with the greater good? Website Recruiting
il sakasanje Minmatar Breed of Malakka	Posted - 2008.10.05 11:26:00 - [99] Nothing surprising here. Neutrals entering active warzones are potential reds, nobody in his right mind would do that. As we were also engaged by our own militia(I was even scrambelt while being in the same fleet!), i wouldn't expect anything less from neutrals. As long as CVA is neutral to the militia i will remain suspicious. (Offtopic: Is it even possible to set standings for the militias? Oo)
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood	Posted - 2008.10.05 12:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Garreck Not at all, Yendaj. Tell us more about how Heretic Nation, a known enemy of the Empire, finds CVA to be inept, stupid, tactically and strategically unsound, arrogant, and unimportant. Make sure to finish it all off by tagging on an insult about Amarrians that fits the same profile. You might just make the case for CVA loyalty for me! Don't tell me she follows the same ol line on all her posts... oh yes she does actually. Sad to say that from All who call themselves Amarr loyalists, CVA pretty much are the only ones who have ever achieved something meaningful for themselves and still carrying Amarr values with them on their reclaiming. I find amusing at best to see the other supposed loyalists eating each other to pieces, the little under dogs trying to make some sort of tribal competitive pattern regarding who can shoot more and have more relevance in the theatres or wars... Ironic to think that there is common point on behaviour pattern that I have and CVA has. We both do our thing because that is what we think we should do, independent of external barking and such. Perhaps that's what irritates so much the opposing side. Hard to find anything to breach in. Keep the good work CVA, and do what you have to do keep the posturing you have. We are old time enemies and we have faced each other at wars countless times in different ways and yet, we have learned a thing or two about respect. May the time come when I'll be entering the command center at the Inflatable House, CVA's first outpost and retriving the gift I have given you erasing the "Nulli expugnabilis hosti" from it's engravings and sealing it with the Sani Sabik seal. Till then... fly with the certainty that your decision of not entering the militia doesn't diminish in any measure what you have done for the Empire so far and continue to do. To the contrary: if there will be an enemy to be defeated to harm the Empire, it's only you on the list. Certainly years goes by and I still have homework to do...well, will keep me busy. Until we next meet Captain Garreck of Amarr. ...every fire needs a little bit help

Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 13:05:00 - [101] When the day comes for armada and slackers to leave the militia will cva come to take the mantle, i doubt it and when that day arrives you will find this precious crusade which you support from afar in tatters ---------------------------------------------
Josef Odinssen Caldari Caldari Imperial Empire Navy	Posted - 2008.10.05 13:44:00 - [102] Edited by: Josef Odinssen on 05/10/2008 13:45:32 As i see it there is no way to clear this squabble without an indepedent tribunal hearing. As a starting measure i will table the following motions based on my independent review of the evidence submitted heirein and invite clarifications/amendments and additions/retractions prior to submission to a Judicial review. Quite simply CVA's position seems to be that former combatants and criminal outlaws should not be exscused from answering for past crimes simply by flying under a flag of convenience of a militia. Providence is an indepedent state under stewardship of CVA that holds allegiance to the Amarr Empire, however until Providence is formally adopted as Amarr Sovereign Empire space CVA are entitled (as per Internation law treaties) to formulate a legal code, visa and travel restrictions and policing policy according to their local governorship of the region. Any criminals who have committed offences in breach of CVA imposed law within Providence remain subjugate to punishment within Providence for those crimes until officially pardoned by CVA governors. Any participation within a Militia force entitles combatents to certain status increases and pardons within Amarr Empire controlled space, however it is entirely at the discretion of independent (Amarr Loyal) governors to choose to extend such status pardos to their own controlled territory. Combatents who have suffered losses due to CVA responses to incursions into their territory in response to past criminal actions have no more right to recompense for ships and lost equipment until they answer trial to the CVA governors for the losses and expenses associated with their past activities in Providence and seek pardon by way of fiscal compensation/loyal service. As a sidenote, one principle reason i have been strongly opposed to a Militia led war is due to such squabbles being inevitable. From my prior comment it has been often a requirement to offer pirates and outlaws a choice between execution and lengthy and loyal service to the state military, however such circumstances are controlled by the state, within the confines of a militia it becomes more difficult to ascertain if combatents are truly fighting loyal to the state or are merely flying a flag or convenience to support "legalised piracy" aka privateering. But as a point of law, irrespective of CVA's loyalty to the Amarr Empire, this is a matter of adjudication for the independent CVA governership of Providence & the plaintiff under Providence local law, and therefore no ruling should be expected from the Amarr Empire on this matter. As a point of clarification, Militia members should not automatically assume a right of passage by virtue of flag through Independent controlled Empire allied regions. Transversal of all regions by Naval vessels (Both state and militia) is still required to file correct paperwork with the controlling immigration and security departments prior to passage, a point the Militia should reference at their War Acadamy for correct procedures. -------------------- "I am not afraid of death, for it is my curse, and my curse is to bring death to others. For i am the destroyer of worlds, the widower, the Son of Caldari.."
Lordus Mark Amarr RDK Trusting Holders	Posted - 2008.10.05 14:11:00 - [103] Edited by: Lordus Mark on 05/10/2008 14:11:39 Originally by: Garreck Setting aside the actions of a CVA patrol (which were in accordance with publicly announced CVA intentions towards entities with "red" standing joining the Imperial Crusade, my own cooperation with Slackers notwithstanding...) It's interesting to me how questions of CVA's loyalty always come up in discussions concerning the Imperial Crusade. While CVA pushes the borders of the Empire into Providence and offers kind words to the Imperial Crusade on their successes in the Bleaklands, we continue to recieve nothing but flak for our efforts in Providence from members of the Imperial Crusade. The Holy Empire is finding strategic success on two fronts... ...and we're at each others' throats over who's doing more. Beautiful. I think this thread just got closed there. ******************************** RDK Trusting Holders** Need a job done? Quietly? Have a word with us.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.05 14:28:00 - [104] Quote: Originally by: Garreck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps, instead of insulting CVA pilots for executing CVA's publicly announced policy towards hostile entities joining up with the Crusade, it would be more appropriate to open private diplomatic channels with CVA and see if differences could be overcome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I left for a day hoping my message of apology, repentence and understanding would've been embraced and acted on. Garreck himself appears to indicate CVA is open to private diplomatic discussions. It is up to the parties involved now to sort it out. May God be with you in this difficult time and may He find your repentence of sin both sincere and heartfelt. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 14:33:00 - [105] Originally by: Josef Odinssen Edited by: Josef Odinssen on 05/10/2008 13:45:32 As i see it there is no way to clear this squabble without an indepedent tribunal hearing. As a starting measure i will table the following motions based on my independent review of the evidence submitted heirein and invite clarifications/amendments and additions/retractions prior to submission to a Judicial review. Quite simply CVA's position seems to be that former combatants and criminal outlaws should not be exscused from answering for past crimes simply by flying under a flag of convenience of a militia. Providence is an indepedent state under stewardship of CVA that holds allegiance to the Amarr Empire, however until Providence is formally adopted as Amarr Sovereign Empire space CVA are entitled (as per Internation law treaties) to formulate a legal code, visa and travel restrictions and policing policy according to their local governorship of the region. Any criminals who have committed offences in breach of CVA imposed law within Providence remain subjugate to punishment within Providence for those crimes until officially pardoned by CVA governors. Any participation within a Militia force entitles combatents to certain status increases and pardons within Amarr Empire controlled space, however it is entirely at the discretion of independent (Amarr Loyal) governors to choose to extend such status pardos to their own controlled territory. Combatents who have suffered losses due to CVA responses to incursions into their territory in response to past criminal actions have no more right to recompense for ships and lost equipment until they answer trial to the CVA governors for the losses and expenses associated with their past activities in Providence and seek pardon by way of fiscal compensation/loyal service. As a sidenote, one principle reason i have been strongly opposed to a Militia led war is due to such squabbles being inevitable. From my prior comment it has been often a requirement to offer pirates and outlaws a choice between execution and lengthy and loyal service to the state military, however such circumstances are controlled by the state, within the confines of a militia it becomes more difficult to ascertain if combatents are truly fighting loyal to the state or are merely flying a flag or convenience to support "legalised piracy" aka privateering. But as a point of law, irrespective of CVA's loyalty to the Amarr Empire, this is a matter of adjudication for the independent CVA governership of Providence & the plaintiff under Providence local law, and therefore no ruling should be expected from the Amarr Empire on this matter. As a point of clarification, Militia members should not automatically assume a right of passage by virtue of flag through Independent controlled Empire allied regions. Transversal of all regions by Naval vessels (Both state and militia) is still required to file correct paperwork with the controlling immigration and security departments prior to passage, a point the Militia should reference at their War Acadamy for correct procedures. CVA are more than entitled to protect themselves within the confines of their sovreign territory, the issue is when they roam into Amarr sovereign low sec which is policed and defended by loyal Militia pilots NOONE in the militia not even CVA loyal PIE can dispute Slackers contribution to the war effort, without slackers we would not be pushing the minmatar out of our space. Human history is full of alliances of convienience and noone is asking CVA to like slackers but only to leave them alone as they spearhead the amarr militia to victory i think i can safely say that we in the militia will always have slackers back they command the respect of their peers and of our enemy ---------------------------------------------
Basic Miner Caldari Navy II	Posted - 2008.10.05 15:01:00 - [106] Originally by: Yuki Li Originally by: RedLion As a non-believer only here aiding allies of the State The State does not give a damn about Providence. The Caldari people definitely do not give a damn about Providence. Please unplug your head from whatever cavernous orifice it is that you have successfully inserted it into. I'm sure you do love playing tag the control tower with a bunch of Revelation class dreadnaughts, but it's not really helping anyone but yourselves, is it. Do CVA really have to allow their sense of self importance to grow so large they trip over it every morning on the way to the bathroom before they'll let sleeping dogs lie and get on with the greater good? You are very wrong. It is in the States utter most interest, that our allies keep having success so that our corporations can keep thriving. Our big corporations rather see our allies winning than losing. And if use of Caldari technology helps Amarr win glorious victories, it will only increase the success and market potential for our corporations. The State does not have a direct interest in Providence, true enough, but we appreciate our allies having success because it makes increase our success and growth as well. You sir, Yuki Li, needs to take your head out of where it's dirty and smells funny. _______________________________________ [Insert catchy/cool phrase here]
Tradey McAlt	Posted - 2008.10.05 15:37:00 - [107] Edited by: Tradey McAlt on 05/10/2008 15:41:38 (delete please)
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood	Posted - 2008.10.05 15:42:00 - [108] Originally by: Chib When the day comes for armada and slackers to leave the militia will cva come to take the mantle, i doubt it and when that day arrives you will find this precious crusade which you support from afar in tatters And who would care if they leave or stay? Do you think that the Empress even notice it? For all that it shows, she didn't direct even a single word to capsuleers in general and the amarr militia. Slackers and Armada are wasting their time and resources fighting a war that won't even get any notice. CVA is correct on doing their thing. ...every fire needs a little bit help
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 15:43:00 - [109] You bring forth the apparent slaying of the Ushra Kahn monster as evidence of ridding the Empire of a great threat. Indeed you removed the station in 9uy from their command, but what did this cause? Before the assault on 9uy (In which, I shall add, you were assisted by the infamous pirates The Establishment, but I shall not dote on that) Ushra Kahn were little more than a nuissance to those living on the outskirts of protected space. Yes, they would occasionally make runs from their 0.0 base to strike at our heartland, but in general the existed as a 0.0 entity. Removed from their comfortable 0.0 lifestyle they have grown into a more nomadic and dangerous entity. No longer can we predict the staging areas for their attacks, no more can we block off their routes into our heartland, and what is more, their attention has been turned to aide in their kin's ruthless attack on our homeland, suplying the enemy with equipment from their blackmarket funded wallets. I accuse you of infact increasing the threat of the minmatars to the Amarrian people, and here you are insulting our services to the militia, fighting a menace which you aided. May I remind you that we are known as temperamental guns for hire for a reason. Do not anger us.
Madmartigan Gallente Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 15:50:00 - [110] Originally by: Archbishop F Given that fact perhaps Slacker could tell us why they are KOS to CVA. I ask you sir, what did CVA do to become KOS to Slackers ? Must have been some horriffic atrocity indeed.

Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 16:42:00 - [111] Edited by: Chib on 05/10/2008 16:43:17 Originally by: Revan Neferis And who would care if they leave or stay? Do you think that the Empress even notice it? For all that it shows, she didn't direct even a single word to capsuleers in general and the amarr militia. Slackers and Armada are wasting their time and resources fighting a war that won't even get any notice. CVA is correct on doing their thing. Not to take anything away from the other hard fighting characters and corporations that fight for the Militia those corps still make up the majority of the most experienced combat pilots and if they left then amarrian sovreign space would eventually fall completely to the minmatar. Are you telling me as a loyal amarrian you find that acceptable to lose established amarrian space to the minmatar while CVA who have established themselves on the basis of loyal amarrians sit holding providence, a lawless territory not vital to the empire. Even if i concede to the fact that providence could bring something to the empire there is still nothing stopping CVA from declaring war on entites like heretic milita and other mainstay minmatar corporations to aid us in the fight ---------------------------------------------
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:14:00 - [112] Any judgement by a jury that holds no power over any of the entities involved will have symbolic significance only, but for public humiliation's sake I am willing to go along with this and answer the challenges of this self-appointed tribunal. Originally by: Josef Odinssen Quite simply CVA's position seems to be that former combatants and criminal outlaws should not be exscused from answering for past crimes simply by flying under a flag of convenience of a militia. Slacker Industries has never asked to be excused for anything by CVA, either when flying under militia flag or otherwise. Instead we are pointing out that an effective ceasefire in the zone of the Bleak Lands while the conflict between the militias lasts in the region will further the goals of the Amarr empire, the Amarr militia, Slacker industries and the CVA at the same time - if their claims of concern for the wellbeing of the Amarr empire hold any virtue at all, which does not seem the case so far. Originally by: Josef Odinssen Providence is an indepedent state under stewardship of CVA that holds allegiance to the Amarr Empire, however until Providence is formally adopted as Amarr Sovereign Empire space CVA are entitled (as per Internation law treaties) to formulate a legal code, visa and travel restrictions and policing policy according to their local governorship of the region. First, we do like to point out that cited CVA's allegiance to the Amarr empire is unilateral only from the side of CVA. The Amarr empire has never acknowledged officially any claims towards Providence or the CVA controlled entities there. We do not care how CVA choose to manage the inside matters of their occupied territory in Providence. Nobody here ever contested their right or ability to do so. Aside from correcting the definition, this issue is irrelevant to the current proceedings. Originally by: Josef Odinssen Any criminals who have committed offences in breach of CVA imposed law within Providence remain subjugate to punishment within Providence for those crimes until officially pardoned by CVA governors. Again, no one ever contested CVA's right or ability to punish offenders or innocents inside its borders. The incident we are discussing however took part inside the borders of the Amarr empire, in regulated space, where a member of the officially recruited Amarr militia was attacked by CVA ships while on duty on the territory of the empire he was drafted to protect and which CVA so vigorously claim to support while at the same time prosecuting its armed forces. As a result of the attack CVA's ships were attacked by CONCORD's gate gun emplacements and were criminally flagged for everyone in the system to see. Originally by: Josef Odinssen Any participation within a Militia force entitles combatents to certain status increases and pardons within Amarr Empire controlled space Exactly what we have been saying for pages here now and what we have been assuming all along that CVA pilots should acknowledge implicitly. Moreover, Slacker Industries has reversed this and has for the months of the conflict so far refrained from engaging CVA patrols inside the Bleak lands despite getting numerous opportunities to do so. Originally by: Josef Odinssen however it is entirely at the discretion of independent (Amarr Loyal) governors to choose to extend such status pardos to their own controlled territory. Again, we do not care about what they do inside the territory they occupy.
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:14:00 - [113] Originally by: Josef Odinssen Combatents who have suffered losses due to CVA responses to incursions into their territory in response to past criminal actions have no more right to recompense for ships and lost equipment until they answer trial to the CVA governors for the losses and expenses associated with their past activities in Providence and seek pardon by way of fiscal compensation/loyal service. The ship loss in this case was not caused in response to an incursion in CVA territory. It happened a good number of jumps away from CVA or their allies' territory and a significant time since any Slacker Industries ships were anywhere near CVA territory. The fact we have been raiding CVA space in the past should not be viewed as an automatic justification for wanton violence in souvereign Amarr empire space. The alternative would give CVA licence to kill anyone anywhere in the galaxy, provided they have ever placed foot inside CVA space without asking CVA diplomats. Furthermore, we have never asked for any kind of monetary compensation. Instead, we are seeking either an effective change in CVA's rules of engagement inside the Bleak lands - ammounting to a ceasefire between their members and Amarr militia members - regardless of whether they are on CVA's KOS list, or the exposition of CVA's hypocrisy in their claims of working towards furthering the goals of the Amarr state. Shooting officially recruited Amarr troops while they are doing their duty is mutually exclusive with working for the Amarr empire, amounts to treason and should be recognized and prosecuted as such. Originally by: Josef Odinssen As a sidenote, one principle reason i have been strongly opposed to a Militia led war is due to such squabbles being inevitable. From my prior comment it has been often a requirement to offer pirates and outlaws a choice between execution and lengthy and loyal service to the state military, however such circumstances are controlled by the state, within the confines of a militia it becomes more difficult to ascertain if combatents are truly fighting loyal to the state or are merely flying a flag or convenience to support "legalised piracy" aka privateering. As a sidenote, maybe you should check Slacker Industries' official record of service before voicing doubt in our earnest intent or the effectiveness of our fighting against the Minmatar. We have most kills and the best performing pilots on this theater of operations. One too many times it has been insinuated Slacked Industries are pirates. Maybe you should check the security status of our members. I am one of the more active participants in SL operations and my rating is 3.8 - hardly a criminal, as anyone can see on my public record. Is with this kind of prejudice how this "independent" tribunal intends to operate? Originally by: Josef Odinssen But as a point of law, irrespective of CVA's loyalty to the Amarr Empire, this is a matter of adjudication for the independent CVA governership of Providence & the plaintiff under Providence local law, and therefore no ruling should be expected from the Amarr Empire on this matter. Compensations - or lack thereof - are a private matter between CVA and SL, no one disputes that. However the Amarr empire should be concerned with any entity that systematically goes out of its way to eradicate officially drafted - and distinguished in combat in this case - members of its militia. While CVA does not fall under the jurisdiction of the empire, the empire cannot be indifferent to systematic hindrances to its militia operations and should urge the perpetrators to cease their harmful activities. Or does CVA claim concern with Amarr goals only when they do not interfere in any way with their private agenda?
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Josef Odinssen As a point of clarification, Militia members should not automatically assume a right of passage by virtue of flag through Independent controlled Empire allied regions. Transversal of all regions by Naval vessels (Both state and militia) is still required to file correct paperwork with the controlling immigration and security departments prior to passage, a point the Militia should reference at their War Acadamy for correct procedures. Again, nothing in this case concerns any "independent controlled regions", claiming empire alliance or not. It is a very simple and unambiguous concept that if you shoot somebody in space, you are working towards its destruction. This is how CVA placed SL on their KOS list in the first place, a very long time ago. Yet somehow when CVA shoots members of the Amarr militia, it is trying to mesmerise the public into believing that they are not disrupting it and are not in fact performing an act of hostility towards the Amarr empire as a whole, whom the milita fights on behalf of. It is a laughable claim, speaking only of CVA's attitude towards a public that is expected to buy that. In fact the matter is very simple and very clear - they have simply chosen to place their private interests before those of the Amarr empire they claim to uphold. I am calling them to reverse their position and respect a temporary cease fire with Amarr militia members inside the Bleak lands, or face the repercussions of their selfish interests being brought up to public scrutiny. Either way, we do not really care. Our years long combat record, which they are painfully aware of, shows we are more than capable of handling their hostility. However, if they choose to go on with disrupting militia operations in the sector, they will face a whole militia led by ours and our allies' fleet commanders in an area where they cannot count on their overwhelming numbers and fortifications to provide them the firepower advantage they so much count on any time they engage in battle.
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:18:00 - [115] Originally by: Chib Originally by: Revan Neferis And who would care if they leave or stay? Do you think that the Empress even notice it? For all that it shows, she didn't direct even a single word to capsuleers in general and the amarr militia. Slackers and Armada are wasting their time and resources fighting a war that won't even get any notice. CVA is correct on doing their thing. Not to take anything away from the other hard fighting pilots and corporations that fight for the Militia but those 2 corps still make up the majority of the most experienced combat pilots and if they left then amarrian sovreign space would eventually fall completely to the minmatar. Are you telling me as a loyal amarrian you find that acceptable to lose established amarrian space to the minmatar while CVA who have established themselves on the basis of loyal amarrians sit holding providence, a lawless territory not vital to the empire. Even if i concede to the fact that providence could bring something to the empire there is still nothing stopping CVA from declaring war on entites like heretic milita and other mainstay minmatar corporations to aid us in the fight Sir, I don't know if you are insulting me or making a heartfelt compliment regarding me being a "Loyal Amarrian" * winks Last I was called a " Loyalist" was on my excommunication years ago... ah well, memories. There is something not quite fitting there. But let me preface by saying that I do think Slackers and Armada would have a better purpose to explore and add maximum use of their expertise other then doing silly bang bangs for an Empire that doesn't even know they exist, and facing the disdain of their own. ...every fire needs a little bit help
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.05 18:10:00 - [116] I look forward to a day when pirates apologize for their sins and repent for their misdeeds. A day when pirates realize the error of their ways and pray to God begging His forgiveness. A day when pirates go to their victims and seek reconciliation for their past sins and vow NEVER to privateer again as pirates in space against the innocent. That will be a wonderful day indeed. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 18:43:00 - [117] Edited by: Greme on 05/10/2008 18:43:37 And yet the issue of CVA constantly strengthening their own personal resolve in 0.0 through the use of well known pirate corps is constantly avoided. The hypocrisy and arrogance of the self proclaimed knights of the people, my own people, who I chose to fight for continues to grate on my patience.
Sral TBear Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2008.10.05 20:37:00 - [118] No suprice in this. These rotten self proclaimed "owners" of the empire are doing nothing but harm. Even the criminals wants to fight for the empire, but nooooooo "we are so mighty" shoot them doing operations against the enemy.......no supirce in this, was an expectet move..."we are so mighty" have no interest in a joined effort, i told them long ago there would be a war....noooo you are wrong...i asked for a chanse to fight....noooo your baaaad....hope these "we are so mighty" will die slowly burning up in there ships...the people are the empire not "we are so mighty"... militia keep fighting, shoot the cursed diplomats of the "we are so mighty" show them the same rule book they through on you.... My fight have moved on from the militia, im fighting the head of the diplomats and there wannabees... brave pilots are fighting with honnour for the empire, i have to cut the head of the dragon, the militia will win at the end, all i can do is to try and make the " we are so mighty" to pay for there treson against the empire.. TBear
Khan Rodak Amarr Manu Dei Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.10.05 21:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Sral TBear No suprice in this. These rotten self proclaimed "owners" of the empire are doing nothing but harm. Even the criminals wants to fight for the empire, but nooooooo "we are so mighty" shoot them doing operations against the enemy.......no supirce in this, was an expectet move..."we are so mighty" have no interest in a joined effort, i told them long ago there would be a war....noooo you are wrong...i asked for a chanse to fight....noooo your baaaad....hope these "we are so mighty" will die slowly burning up in there ships...the people are the empire not "we are so mighty"... militia keep fighting, shoot the cursed diplomats of the "we are so mighty" show them the same rule book they through on you.... My fight have moved on from the militia, im fighting the head of the diplomats and there wannabees... brave pilots are fighting with honnour for the empire, i have to cut the head of the dragon, the militia will win at the end, all i can do is to try and make the " we are so mighty" to pay for there treson against the empire.. TBear TBear: I remember some of our talks, and you should too. There is a diferene between beeing amarr and all else. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it to you. Keep looking. I hope you will find it some day. I will welcome you when that happens. New Seminarium open
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 21:07:00 - [120] Originally by: Revan Neferis Sir, I don't know if you are insulting me or making a heartfelt compliment regarding me being a "Loyal Amarrian" * winks Last I was called a " Loyalist" was on my excommunication years ago... ah well, memories. There is something not quite fitting there. But let me preface by saying that I do think Slackers and Armada would have a better purpose to explore and add maximum use of their expertise other then doing silly bang bangs for an Empire that doesn't even know they exist, and facing the disdain of their own. It was a general statement rather than one aimed at you How the Empire decides to reward its troops when the dust settles is upto them, this is not why i choose to fight, not for reward but for glory. I chooose to fight for the amarr because they are the underdog and i wish to play my part in the victory of the fox over the wolf ---------------------------------------------

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