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Weiland Taur
Ceptic Innovations Rebel Alliance of New Eden
46
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm going to put myself out there and sort of repeat something I stated in another forum post as a question here. Trolls please feel free to stop by for free feeding, I realize it may be close to dinner time in some time zones.
When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?" I think this is a fundamental flaw in this game and something that will keep it from ever breaking the million subscriber mark. Let's face it, the one thing the Mittani situation reveals about this game is the filthy dark underbelly that is a couple thousand subs coming online for the sole purpose of "ruining someone else's game." I am not speaking solely of Goons here. I had not even encountered a Goon until being touched on my space ship model by high sec pirates who felt **** talking went hand in hand with loot theft. I'm getting help for that so please do not worry about me.
No where in Eve Online advertising does it mention, "Eve Online, come and ruin someone else's game." People play games to win or lose. They play to blow off steam. They play to be competitive. Most sane people do not play to make other people cry.
I think the players of Eve need to step back, stop trying to get a piece of the Mittani Tear Pie while it's warm and ask what type of game we want. One thing I realized a long time ago was that I can play Eve and have a blast and not be an ass or try to make other's feel bad. If you can't understand the difference between "griefing" and bullying then I suggest you take some time to talk to a qualified professional.
Comments? |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
622
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
The game is whatever you make of it. Some choose to be sociopathic assholes ingame while also pushing their views/agenda via metagaming.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
OldMan Gana
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Less knobs in the game would do me for a start. " I spent most of my money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -George Best-á |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
463
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote: I'm going to put myself out there and sort of repeat something I stated in another forum post as a question here. Trolls please feel free to stop by for free feeding, I realize it may be close to dinner time in some time zones.
When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?" I think this is a fundamental flaw in this game and something that will keep it from ever breaking the million subscriber mark. Let's face it, the one thing the Mittani situation reveals about this game is the filthy dark underbelly that is a couple thousand subs coming online for the sole purpose of "ruining someone else's game." I am not speaking solely of Goons here. I had not even encountered a Goon until being touched on my space ship model by high sec pirates who felt **** talking went hand in hand with loot theft. I'm getting help for that so please do not worry about me.
No where in Eve Online advertising does it mention, "Eve Online, come and ruin someone else's game." People play games to win or lose. They play to blow off steam. They play to be competitive. Most sane people do not play to make other people cry.
I think the players of Eve need to step back, stop trying to get a piece of the Mittani Tear Pie while it's warm and ask what type of game we want. One thing I realized a long time ago was that I can play Eve and have a blast and not be an ass or try to make other's feel bad. If you can't understand the difference between "griefing" and bullying then I suggest you take some time to talk to a qualified professional.
Comments?
I have always promoted exactly that in my corp, no smack, no emo, no drama just play for fun and hopefully teh peopel involved in what you are doing (even on teh receiving end) should be having fun.
It is however a competetive game, more so than many mmos because of its harsh nature. It is that we love, the hard fact that if you lose, you lose something, it wont be returned at a spawn site or be replaced by the game.
How do I personally want Eve to proceed? Exactly the way it has been since crucible was announced, pretty much exactly how it is going now.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1406
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's called "Mittani Gate". Get it right. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
121
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's the new age "RP" for the kids. They think they are role-playing bad guys and evil henchman.
They think EVE is REAL.. they forget EVE is REAL..
L2RP and not the METARP these guys do now.. |
Minabunny
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actually some of their advertising does push that type of mentality. I'm not going to go scour youtube for the video. However, in in one advertising video they put forth the idea of infiltrating a corporation long term to the point of getting into a position of power. Then using that power to steal all that corporations assets thus destroying it. This type of advertising clearly appeals to the type of player that would like to 'ruin peoples day'. |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
EvE will never get "a million subs" because the game is too much like work.
People will cry blah blah that is eve
YES that is...
It is not a game that alot of people will like...
Eve would get way more subs if making money was cake... pvp was not a huge lose... etc etc... |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1408
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:It's the new age "RP" for the kids. They think they are role-playing bad guys and evil henchman.
They think EVE is REAL.. they forget EVE is REAL..
L2RP and not the METARP these guys do now.. I guess the lesson learned here is that EvE can be as real as the players and press want it to be? EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
[ sarcasm ]
I want one with every forum full of whiney Goonie threads...
[ /sarcasm ] |
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Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote: I'm going to put myself out there and sort of repeat something I stated in another forum post as a question here. Trolls please feel free to stop by for free feeding, I realize it may be close to dinner time in some time zones.
When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?" I think this is a fundamental flaw in this game and something that will keep it from ever breaking the million subscriber mark. Let's face it, the one thing the Mittani situation reveals about this game is the filthy dark underbelly that is a couple thousand subs coming online for the sole purpose of "ruining someone else's game." I am not speaking solely of Goons here. I had not even encountered a Goon until being touched on my space ship model by high sec pirates who felt **** talking went hand in hand with loot theft. I'm getting help for that so please do not worry about me.
No where in Eve Online advertising does it mention, "Eve Online, come and ruin someone else's game." People play games to win or lose. They play to blow off steam. They play to be competitive. Most sane people do not play to make other people cry.
I think the players of Eve need to step back, stop trying to get a piece of the Mittani Tear Pie while it's warm and ask what type of game we want. One thing I realized a long time ago was that I can play Eve and have a blast and not be an ass or try to make other's feel bad. If you can't understand the difference between "griefing" and bullying then I suggest you take some time to talk to a qualified professional.
Comments?
There's always got to be a bit of a balance between EVE being a game of pretend, and a game in which you're just yourself playing a game.
Ultimately, the only thing wrong with "harvesting tears" being the norm is that it's a bit too far OOC - a bit too far to the side of "we're all just dorks sitting at a computer playing a game". Whereas actually EVE was originally inspired more by Elite, by "let's pretend we're space-x,y,z (pirates, freebooters, industrialists, etc.)".
In and of itself, being "nasty" is part of the game, but originally it was supposed to be pretend nasty (for fun), rather than actually nasty (for fun). However, it's always going to be a bit of a fuzzy line. Of course it hurts to lose stuff - but that's part of the game you signed up for. If it didn't hurt, it would no longer be EVE.
Maybe, over the years, the game has attracted a greater proportion of players who are happy consciously being dorks sitting at a computer playing a game and chugging a beer - as opposed to dorks sitting at a computer pretending to be space-pilots (while chugging a beer); I think the original intent was for us to be dorks pretending to be space pilots.
But it's not really that big a problem at the end of the day, there's room for all sorts in EVE. And anyway, there's probably a lot of variation within the mind of any player too, from day to day. Sometimes you're rigtht in it, immersed in New Eden as a "pirate" or "miner", sometimes you're just playing a game and deliberately setting out to annoy other players, or progressing your character while doing something else.
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Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
162
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Minabunny wrote:Actually some of their advertising does push that type of mentality. I'm not going to go scour youtube for the video. However, in in one advertising video they put forth the idea of infiltrating a corporation long term to the point of getting into a position of power. Then using that power to steal all that corporations assets thus destroying it. This type of advertising clearly appeals to the type of player that would like to 'ruin peoples day'. thats still aprt of the game, OP is refering to people who not only take assets or blow stuff up (which he beleives is acceptable), but people who take it a step farther and believe that trash talking, making offensive remarks, adn general trash-talking is what "1337 peeveepee" is all about.
i've flown with soem great pvp'ers, and you know what? the only ACTUAL GOOD PVP'ers ive ever flown with, will warp to a fight, cream/get creamed, GF in local, and be on their emrry way. heck, even flew with some australian fella's before who suicided some new player who entered lowsec in a hauler, they felt sorry for him afterwards and sent him enough isk to cover his losses. now i dont speak about every "pirate" but 9/10 fo them would have not only killed the noob, but they would have then proceeded to verbally grief him in local for being a noob.
i eprsonally think the problem with eve, isnt that people love destroying other peoples stuff, its not the sense of competitiveness, its the mentality of assholery centered around making a player feel bad for a loss he had beyond just giving him the loss. we need more GF in local, less "wannabe gangster trash talk". |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
229
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
The reason Eve will never reach a million subs is the most cutting edge PVE content is still watching three bars go down on a red cross in space.
Isk generation while relatively easy in this game is boring as hell. Industry is even worse. |
Dharh
Ace Adventure Corp Blue Meanies
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I want a sci-fi sim full of every walk of life. I do not want WoW in space where _everyone_ is a bloody of the ages. I want people to burn and cry and laugh and kill. I want carebares and murderers. Backstabbers and huggers. Gankers and honest to god toe to toe pvpers. I want sex, drugs, and rock and roll (trance, dubstep, orchestra).
I most of all want people to stop treating EVE as their personal playground where everyone else needs to leave them alone to their mostly single player experience and they are going to yell at me about it constantly. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote: When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?"
Scams gets tears Corp theft gets tears When u got alot of isk whats the point in more? tears > isk. EVE is advertised as a hard place where u can destory all of someones assets they have built over years. Where you can scam within the rules. What people are going to join a game like that? |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well 0.0 died and nobody cares about it anymore.
So you have a bunch of PvP'r with zero direction and nobody to vent on.
So they come to high-sec and suicide gank.
You heard the term misery loves company well gankers are already there and all they want to do is have someone else feel there pain so they can feel better.
All you can do is pity the ganker, and give them a shoulder to cry on. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?"
Scams gets tears Corp theft gets tears When u got alot of isk whats the point in more? tears > isk. EVE is advertised as a hard place where u can destory all of someones assets they have built over years. Where you can scam within the rules. What people are going to join a game like that?
Hell, I joined because I wanted to play a game with spaceships, not to farm tears. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
What I want
Tal
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Vanir Tsero
Critical Mass Inc. Pinked
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
EvE Online is a Sandbox. It's also a Game. Leave Real Life out of it.
When you are your character, all bets are off. What you say and do in-game is who you are "in-game" and does not reflect outside. One of the most outstanding things Mittens said during the whole debacle was his association with his in-game persona vs his RL Persona and how they began to meld together which led to the public unrest we see today.
Don't be anyone else in-game Mittens. You are a rival, a friend, and a respected eve player. Do not change.
I'd love to see eve filled with a variety of different persona. The antagonist, The rival, the judgement, the jury, the mercs, the marshals, and the Avengers. I'd love to see strong high sec alliances fight the tyranny of the goons in Jita this April. Everything In-Game should never be policed because this is an avenue in which we as individuals wish to live out aspects of our life we would not be able to in the real world. Those eve players who are scrawny and get bullied are Tough and respected. Pirates, thieves, scammers.
Freedom is where I'd like to see EvE go. Concord is enough police for the game. But there should be serious ramifications when our online persona's venture out into the Real World. Don't let it happen players. I should be able to blow your ship up in EvE, talk **** about your heritage then go grab a beer with you at the local pub and joke about the singer on stage.
That is the environment I want. Those are the players I want to interact with. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
232
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
I joined to be a member of a mighty space empire. With goons.
I'm terrible at scamming and most of my killmails are fleet actions, homeland defense and one or two deep deployments with small gangs.
And since I trained Logi 5 I don't even get killmails anymore because I get guilted into flying a logi and our FC's are fleetwarp happy so I go through about a half billion in drones every month. |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?"
Scams gets tears Corp theft gets tears When u got alot of isk whats the point in more? tears > isk. EVE is advertised as a hard place where u can destory all of someones assets they have built over years. Where you can scam within the rules. What people are going to join a game like that? Hell, I joined because I wanted to play a game with spaceships, not to farm tears. Yay! Not the only one! |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Aranakas wrote:Hell, I joined because I wanted to play a game with spaceships, not to farm tears. Yay! Not the only one! There are actually quite a few of us. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
Panda Name
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
i didn't read the entirety of your poast, cuz it's pretty bad, but i will say this: most people sub'd to this game after hearing of some "horrible" event. for me, it was the wired article about some poor bastard losing his titan due to being backstabbed. the article then went into great detail about corp infiltration, and how hilarious it is.
i think the problem here is you, not us. you just have no idea what game you are playing. you probably live in motsu or something. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
232
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Panda Name wrote:i didn't read the entirety of your poast, cuz it's pretty bad, but i will say this: most people sub'd to this game after hearing of some "horrible" event. for me, it was the wired article about some poor bastard losing his titan due to being backstabbed. the article then went into great detail about corp infiltration, and how hilarious it is.
i think the problem here is you, not us. you just have no idea what game you are playing. you probably live in motsu or something.
It wasn't a Titan it was a faction BS back when those were super rare. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: When and or why did Eve move from taking territory, pulling off amazing scams, stealing corps (assets), winning the ISK game which is really the underlying mechanic of kill mails, being part of a group, having fun in a space empire simulator to "harvesting tears?"
Scams gets tears Corp theft gets tears When u got alot of isk whats the point in more? tears > isk. EVE is advertised as a hard place where u can destory all of someones assets they have built over years. Where you can scam within the rules. What people are going to join a game like that? Hell, I joined because I wanted to play a game with spaceships, not to farm tears.
Cod Black Ops i knife run Cod Mod 3 i glock run Legue Of Ledgend i pick op hero and pwn Dota i pick op hero and pwn EVE Online i like to destory other people asset the big the better for tears. I got like 45b net worth so all i need is tears. When i joined eve looked like the perfect game for my play style. With the upcoming wardec changes even more so. |
Weiland Taur
Ceptic Innovations Rebel Alliance of New Eden
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Minabunny wrote:Actually some of their advertising does push that type of mentality. I'm not going to go scour youtube for the video. However, in in one advertising video they put forth the idea of infiltrating a corporation long term to the point of getting into a position of power. Then using that power to steal all that corporations assets thus destroying it. This type of advertising clearly appeals to the type of player that would like to 'ruin peoples day'. thats still aprt of the game, OP is refering to people who not only take assets or blow stuff up (which he beleives is acceptable), but people who take it a step farther and believe that trash talking, making offensive remarks, adn general assholery is what "1337 peeveepee" is all about. i've flown with soem great pvp'ers, and you know what? the only ACTUAL GOOD PVP'ers ive ever flown with, will warp to a fight, cream/get creamed, GF in local, and be on their emrry way. heck, even flew with some australian fella's before who suicided some new player who entered lowsec in a hauler, they felt sorry for him afterwards and sent him enough isk to cover his losses. now i dont speak about every "pirate" but 9/10 fo them would have not only killed the noob, but they would have then proceeded to verbally grief him in local for being a noob. i eprsonally think the problem with eve, isnt that people love destroying other peoples stuff, its not the sense of competitiveness, its the mentality of assholery centered around making a player feel bad for a loss he had beyond just giving him the loss. we need more GF in local, less "wannabe gangster trash talk".
To more illustrate my point about taking other player's stuff and the comment about the Causality trailer:
I remember the Phaser Ink scam and investing ISK in it early on. I knew it was a scam and it became a game of can I pull my ISK prior to the scam finishing. I was lucky and did. The ISK earned was worth less than the excitement of the game. Now as far as I know neither of those players went around talking **** to people. They pulled off their scam and I assume are blowing stuff up on alts now. Good for them. That is what I mean when I say it's okay to take other player's stuff. That is the hardness of Eve, that when you lose stuff you really lose stuff. No save button. No running back to your corpse to pick up your stuff. That is the sandbox.
The Causality trailer makes no reference to asshattery and cruel comments. It simply talks about getting killed and then the "game" of plotting your revenge. Will feelings be hurt when people lose SOV and their assets? Most likely but their is no reason to add to the natural response we all have to "losing," with comments and actions that in any other game would get a flag for bad gamesmanship. That is the bottom line, taunting, **** talking, being cruel because you can are bad gamesmanship and bad gamesmanship will keep Eve small. The bottom line is a cultural one. Eve can be a culture of let's hurt that person's feelings or it can be one of I want to take all your stuff. I prefer the latter.
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Weiland Taur
Ceptic Innovations Rebel Alliance of New Eden
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Panda Name wrote:i didn't read the entirety of your poast, cuz it's pretty bad, but i will say this: most people sub'd to this game after hearing of some "horrible" event. for me, it was the wired article about some poor bastard losing his titan due to being backstabbed. the article then went into great detail about corp infiltration, and how hilarious it is.
i think the problem here is you, not us. you just have no idea what game you are playing. you probably live in motsu or something.
I always read an entire post if I am going to comment on it. Knowledge is power.
I can relate to your experience though, I joined Eve after hearing seeing Goonswarm videos on Youtube and thinking, "damn this sounds like a crazy game." Per your second comment you are absolutely right, I have a problem with any game that strays into people being cruel to each other for the sake of being cruel. It seems odd to me. It is my problem and I think it diminishes the game. I have no idea as to your reference of the Motsu system. I always post on my main and with a little research it would be easy for you to find out where I live in game. |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
128
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
What I especially like are the ones who run away from you and then talk smack in local. "U MAD?" :P
What's the point of talking smack if you're not going to do anything? Isn't the whole reason to get your target so fumed up that they come out and engage to your advantage? But then you haul ass and hide when I come out to engage?
Never understood that... |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
128
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote:Panda Name wrote:i didn't read the entirety of your poast, cuz it's pretty bad, but i will say this: most people sub'd to this game after hearing of some "horrible" event. for me, it was the wired article about some poor bastard losing his titan due to being backstabbed. the article then went into great detail about corp infiltration, and how hilarious it is.
i think the problem here is you, not us. you just have no idea what game you are playing. you probably live in motsu or something. I always read an entire post if I am going to comment on it. Knowledge is power.
Only if it can be put to any use. |
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