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Evil Zombie
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Posted - 2008.10.01 12:58:00 -
[1]
hi,
this is just my simple idea to discourage macro mining while allowing semi afk mining and not changing the system as a whole...
the basic problem with macro mining is you want a human do things (mining) while making sure its a human, not a computer emulating a human (no macro mining)
this problem is common in IT (think forums and social networks), and has a 100% working solution: CAPTCHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA
so why not just upon activating a mining laser, the eve server sends a captcha image along with a little dialog box to the client, and when the CAPTCHA is filled correctly, mining lasers are unlocked for say 15-30 minutes, after that time another captcha is required.
(Insert RP adjust mining laser something technobabble reasoning here)
still, It'd fix the problem for good.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:02:00 -
[2]
Requesting the mods to please please please merge and sticky the last 1000 CAPTCHA on mining posts, all the debates, all the reasons why it's a bad idea and why existing programs have already broken CAPTCHAs on web forms...
I'd like to follow this up with a request that on the basis that ISK farmers also farm missions, that CAPTCHAs ought to apply to undocking, firing weapons, and activating any defensive module...
Sorry, I know it sounds harsh, but please use EVE search next time. This has been done to death.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:03:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 01/10/2008 13:04:02
Removing double post since the forums manage to time-out half the time and merely pretend to have not posted yet...
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Tim Idaho
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:20:00 -
[4]
Hey Evil.
While I like your thinking, it's not going to happen for several reasons. Mining is already boring, and if you nerf it with a system similar to those copy protection questions from games back in the days of yore, people just won't DO it.
While I understand the issue with macro mining, I think the true solution lies in the opposite direction - make it easier to do semi-afk. Here's my reasoning...
At present you hit your lasers and sit there like a dumb s$%t doing a drag every 2 mins, unless you're mining ice. Then it's every 7 mins or so. That's (in a word) boring. Actually, it's REALLY boring, and not why you're playing the game. Personally, if I believed in her I'd be down on my knees every evening thanking God for all those bored Teenies on the site mining their little cotton socks off for me and putting their stuff on the market.
I'm a busy man. I play to have fun. That, strangely enough, doesn't include mining. I prefer not to get into the whole industrial thing for now. Perhaps later when mission running gets boring, but hey, there's nothing more satisfying than leaving a bunch of militants you don't need in that can after you've salvaged the field...
But I digress.
So the thing is, people who want to mine for the mats, but don't want to be bored silly, look for options. At present, there are three. Continue to be bored, get into macro mining or just don't do it.
That puts me fairly into category 3. I'm not into mining in any event, I've done it with some corp ops, but that's different. I have company then. I'm not going to spend my valuable time being bored out of my skin in a game I'm paying to play. However, for some at least the option appears to be door No. 2.
So, what's the problem here? Is it that macro miners exist or that mining is so boring that people seriously consider using one? Personally, I think it's the latter.
CAPTCHA is only going to inconvenience the honest players. Someone (somewhere) who's bored out of their skull will eventually find a way around even this and then you're back to square one, only now everyone's typing in validations every 15 mins.
In short, no. Better to find a way to make mining more interesting, or at least officially make it semi-afk.
What if CCP built in (for instance) an option to dump directly to jetcan? Your lasers (instead of dumping to your hold) fill a jetcan instead. You could mine for longer without having to constantly be at the screen. You could fold clothes, cook dinner, eat dinner, work on assignments, argue with your wife about your gaming habits etc. all while you're mining.
Make it EASIER to mine, and far less people will want macros. Make it HARDER to mine, and CCP will have people leaving in disgust.
My humble view I guess.
Tim.
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:32:00 -
[5]
give noobcorps a maximum mining amount per day.
for example 2 jetcans full and you can't mine anything until DT anymore.
I'm sure there's some nice RP story that would enforce this
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Tim Idaho
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:45:00 -
[6]
Hey Total.
Only problem with that is some people get into the game to be miners, others to be ratters, others to be mission runners, others to be whatever else there is in the game.
Putting bag limits on players based on their experience or longevity in the game doesn't solve the issue of char farmers and corps would just stop taking noobs. Put it on at the corp level, and no-one would form mining corps. How are you going to save up for that Rorqual if you can only mine 2 jetcans between all corp members a day? Corp mining ops would be a thing of the past, and they're as legit as you can get (at least the ones I've been on are).
Nice thinking though. But personally, I think it would detract from the game in that mining specialisation just wouldn't be worth it anymore.
Tim.
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Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.10.01 15:37:00 -
[7]
Greetings,
 Originally by: Evil Zombie
this problem is common in IT (think forums and social networks), and has a 100% working solution: CAPTCHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA
This is wrong in so many ways...
First, captchas have been proven over and over again to fail. There have been literally hundreds of articles in the last 6 months showing how scripts are able to bypass captchas.
Second, captchas have been proven to be very difficult for people with any type visual acuity, color perception, or color differential issues.
Third, captchas tend to cause frustration in people if the captcha is not part of their native letter set. For example, someone who's native letter set is Cyrillic has a harder time doing captchas with the Latin letter set, and vice versa.
I could go on for a while more with reasons these capthas are a bad idea, but these are some of the biggest ones. Finally, I really wish people would actually do a bit of research before posting garbage proposals like this one. Why, because it has been proposed every day for at least the last month.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.02 01:42:00 -
[8]
Great idea, as soon as:
1) You have to do it to fire your guns at an NPC
2) You have to do it to fire your guns at a PC
3) You have to do it to make a market transaction
4) You have to do it to make a contract
5) You have to do it to make a trade.
Miners already have the slowest, most boring part of the game with the lowest reward so please stop trying to make it more annoying for legitimate miners.
-------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Total Disaster
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tim Idaho
Hey Total.
Only problem with that is some people get into the game to be miners, others to be ratters, others to be mission runners, others to be whatever else there is in the game.
Putting bag limits on players based on their experience or longevity in the game doesn't solve the issue of char farmers and corps would just stop taking noobs. Put it on at the corp level, and no-one would form mining corps. How are you going to save up for that Rorqual if you can only mine 2 jetcans between all corp members a day? Corp mining ops would be a thing of the past, and they're as legit as you can get (at least the ones I've been on are).
Nice thinking though. But personally, I think it would detract from the game in that mining specialisation just wouldn't be worth it anymore.
Tim.
Just to clarify.
It would be 2 jetcans per day if you're in a NOOBCORP (non-player corp).
And it would be 2 jetcans per character of course.
imho noob corps should be a corp for training stuff (i.e. see how things work) or as a fallback corp if you're leaving or getting kicked from your player corp.
This would actually force ppl to take "noobs" into their corps or at least the make them form their own corps.
so at the end you once again have to make the choice of making money and be a bit in danger, or play the safe side of eve but making far less money. (from the miner side at least)
nothing would change on the player corp side
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Wrangler Al
Caldari
Shadow's Hunters
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Posted - 2008.10.06 16:06:00 -
[10]
A beter way would be to have some sort of mini game or console pop up once you start mining and you use the mouse to guide the mining laser across the asteroid surface to points that glitter with minerals.
or maby you need to use the arrow keys to keep the power flow indicator centred as it wanders to the edge of a circular disk... and if it hits the edge the beams deactivate
both ways require manual control.. add exra stuff to do while mining and kill macros
Tadaa
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:39:00 -
[11]
Am not sure this would work, as most macros have a guy watching over them and he could do the CAPTCHA thing.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Del Narveux
Am not sure this would work, as most macros have a guy watching over them and he could do the CAPTCHA thing.
not true at all, id say. certainly there are computer farms where a guy watches over 10 or 20 computers, but id say most macro miners are where people just download a macro, and leave it running while they do the weekly shopping or whatever, so they have isk when they get back.
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PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Rea Ne'leth
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Posted - 2008.10.07 08:03:00 -
[13]
remove roids from empire
Problem solved
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.07 08:41:00 -
[14]
I would say, this link is representative for my opinion about CAPTCHAs.
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 10:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Abrazzar
I would say, this link is representative for my opinion about CAPTCHAs.
another UF regular :D
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PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.07 13:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tim Idaho
So, what's the problem here? Is it that macro miners exist or that mining is so boring that people seriously consider using one? Personally, I think it's the latter.
I'd say it's lazy people that don't mind cheating to get ahead. Any time people can macro or bot to make cash without effort or time, some will.
I don't support the OP's idea though.
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