Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
WhiteWhiskey
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
What I am considering is what are some of the market areas that offer the best return? Working from the blueprint stage up, purchasing raw materials, and taking time into consideration? And let's say it's about a 5 man crew. Strictly going into manufacturing, not selling copies mind you. Would love to hear any suggestions from real professionals. Thanx. |
Emma Royd
Jupiter Industries C0LD Fusion
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
WhiteWhiskey wrote:What I am considering is what are some of the market areas that offer the best return? Working from the blueprint stage up, purchasing raw materials, and taking time into consideration? And let's say it's about a 5 man crew. Strictly going into manufacturing, not selling copies mind you. Would love to hear any suggestions from real professionals. Thanx.
I'll say it before someone else
Learn to spreadsheet
If someone had a veritable goldmine by manufacturing something, what are the chances that they would share that info, since the more people that make the same mega profitable item as you, the less your profits will be.
Have a look at Isk Per Hour and work things out.
The only bit of essential advice is Production Efficiency 5 is a must on any building character, as well as someone with good trade skills. |
WhiteWhiskey
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
I understand this...I was just hoping for a little advice. I don't expect for someone to handout there business model on the forums. I was saying like....oh tools offers some good gains vs. ship component building. But I will take your advice and check out the page. Thanx. |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
WhiteWhiskey wrote:I understand this...I was just hoping for a little advice. I don't expect for someone to handout there business model on the forums. I was saying like....oh tools offers some good gains vs. ship component building. But I will take your advice and check out the page. Thanx.
Use BPCs. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.
Check the profitability of everything that moves in a reasonable volume. The more you check, the more you earn.
Make sure that you pay yourself for your efforts. A 10 slot manufacturing account requires 67k/hour to buy a PLEX, make sure to always earn more than that. Also, two Production Efficiency V, Mass Production IV, Industry IV alts decrease the requirement to 33k/hour. |
Emma Royd
Jupiter Industries C0LD Fusion
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
I didn't mean to come over as arrogant or anything :)
Some tips: Start small, buy BPC's like Aurel says, but also buy things like Ammo BPO's (work out which sell best where) and get them in for research (unless you've got access to pos labs, you may have to wait a bit for the research, but scout out low-sec station labs, see how busy the systems are, and ninja them in
Don't lay all your eggs in one basket, but if you find something that sells well for you, then consider buying another research, I've got at least 5 of some of the ammo ones so I can either churn more out in a week, or make a smaller quantity faster to get the mineral investment on the market quicker.
If you can, get standings with the station you want to sell at, it all helps with the costs, but don't make it a priority, it's a nice thing but not essential.
Don't be disappointed if you're wallet doesn't leap up straight away, but be concerned if it starts dropping. How you want to work your initial investment is up to you, but learn where your isk goes, and keep an eye on it, it's easy to lose track when you're buying minerals in to build off.
erm, apart from that, enjoy it, and don't lose the fact that eve is a game, not a job :)
|
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oh, another thing is that it's reasonably cheap to buy a corp with high enough standing for a highsec POS (about 135M) and a small tower costs 5M/day in fuel and can support some research and production - at 0.75 time multiplier, helping your ISK/hour greatly.
It might be a while until you're ready for that, though. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
463
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
The HeartBreak of T2 Ship Production. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
463
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote: Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.
This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Aurel Svenson wrote: Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.
This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter.
I hope for your sake that you're not a manufacturer. :) |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
220
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well I'm a manufacturer and I have to say it tweaked the needle on my nonsense meter a little too.
I'm not saying BPCs (for manufacturing, rather than invention) are a *bad* idea, and certainly not a bad idea in all circumstances but bearing in mind that margins on a very good chunk of T1 is very slim one often finds that BPC cost effectively eats all (or even more) of your profit.
Generally I'd say that if a BPO is too expensive at a given stage in career then look for cheaper BPOs rather than go straight to BPCs - the profit per slot per day does not always correlate with the cost of the BPO, and quite often the reverse is true.
Naturally I'd consider these rough rules of thumb, the only sure fire answer is as already suggested: lrn2 spreadsheet. |
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
464
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Aurel Svenson wrote: Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.
This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter. I hope for your sake that you're not a manufacturer. :)
Emma Royd wrote:
Start small, buy BPC's like Aurel says, but also buy things like Ammo BPO's (work out which sell best where) and get them in for research
THIS. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Lady Ayeipsia
Morskoj Industries
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bpos are hit or miss. Ammo, nice... A retriever bpo... Pass.
As for what to make, look into areas where most people do not venture. For examply, cynosural field generators can sell well near a nul sec boarder but would be useless in the middle of hi sec. Also, a select few bpos need additional skills to manufacture, such as mobile warp bubble. Avoid those if you do not have time to skill up, but if you do have the time it may help. Also, if you have people running missions, start salvaging and pick up rig bpos.
Also, you need to ask yourself the key indy question... Are you in it for the fun or the isk? If for the isk, do your numbers each day,plan out the best profit items and keep checking the market for any changes. If you are in.it for the fun, you can do the numbers less often, but try to stick to a niche you like. I happen to enjoy producing stealth bombers. I could make more isk per hour, but I like being a ship trader. |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
The problem is that it's still a heavy investment. He loses those research slots for weeks, in which time he might want to work on something that's actually profitable (which he doesn't know precisely at the moment). I'd say use BPCs until you know the market; if you're at the "ask the forums" stage it's too early to start long term investments (POS is probably unwise too, but it pays off much quicker than BPOs... and allows you to make BPOs much easier). |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
464
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cool. It just seemed like a warning to avoid BPO's at all cost ! OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Half the fun of manufacturing is the selling part (for me, anyways). That said, find something that sells real fast, ammo is perfect). It'll sell as fast as you can build it. The profit margins are nearly non-existent but it's fun. While you're Buying (materials), building and selling, start doing research on other things to build. Don't jump into anything though. Make sure you know what you're getting into before you commit. The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month. My own guideline is quantity over quality. If you find something with both, you're rich. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
330
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ammo can have a reasonable profit margin. The problem is the isk/hour, which is, in the end, more important.
I can keep 10 lines running, churning out small ammo with a 100% profit margin on the invested isk. Or I can do it with large ammo, with only a 30% margin. However, I invest substantially more into it, making more in the end.
If you want to know what will move, just check the market history in your region. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
464
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elsa Nietchize wrote: The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month.
Hello, Bustards !
(fell for them a year ago)
(also, how did so many people steal my shirt ?) OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Suni Khan
Cyclone Research State Of Union Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Elsa Nietchize wrote: The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month. Hello, Bustards ! (fell for them a year ago) (also, how did so many people steal my shirt ?)
Gonna buy one myself for the hell of it now xD |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Bpos are hit or miss. Ammo, nice... A retriever bpo... Pass.
As for what to make, look into areas where most people do not venture. For examply, cynosural field generators can sell well near a nul sec boarder but would be useless in the middle of hi sec. Also, a select few bpos need additional skills to manufacture, such as mobile warp bubble. Avoid those if you do not have time to skill up, but if you do have the time it may help. Also, if you have people running missions, start salvaging and pick up rig bpos.
Also, you need to ask yourself the key indy question... Are you in it for the fun or the isk? If for the isk, do your numbers each day,plan out the best profit items and keep checking the market for any changes. If you are in.it for the fun, you can do the numbers less often, but try to stick to a niche you like. I happen to enjoy producing stealth bombers. I could make more isk per hour, but I like being a ship trader.
It's always nice to hear that there are others who make certain things because, for whatever reason, they LIKE making them. I don't make stuff that's a loss or a particular pain in the ass, of course, but also there are items that may be more profitable than anything I make that I just don't care to look into. I enjoy making stuff that helps people blow up ships and sell it in pirate-y areas and profit matters, but it's not the only thing that does |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Ammo can have a reasonable profit margin. The problem is the isk/hour, which is, in the end, more important.
I can keep 10 lines running, churning out small ammo with a 100% profit margin on the invested isk. Or I can do it with large ammo, with only a 30% margin. However, I invest substantially more into it, making more in the end.
If you want to know what will move, just check the market history in your region.
Also, for a lot of small stuff like that it may be easier to find sources of it that have sell orders for close to manufacturing cost, and then just re-sell in different locations with a significant markup. It's what I've started doing and while the pure ISK incoming from deals like that is less than what I would get by making and selling, it's not a whole lot less, and I have a whole lot more production lines free for other stuff. |
|
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nah, there's a time and a place for BPOs. I'm around the 3B ISK mark and I've just started making them, but only for small items with prints <30M to make (150k/hour research fee assumed). I'm still getting enough turnover on my assets that even a cruiser BPO would require millions in profit per cruiser to offer an economic profit. Later, when I'm getting less turnover, that value will decrease by quite a lot.
It's too bad you can't rent BPOs without collateral...
My point is that if you have a lot of capital invested in making a particular item you're stuck making that particular item and you lose flexibility and you also lose working capital. It's true that BPOs do not depreciate, but neither do they appreciate so they have an opportunity cost associated with them equal to your daily turnover% multiplied by the value of the blueprint, per day. At the beginning you'll have a high daily turnover% so BPOs don't make much sense, and researching ME in public slots is suboptimal, to say the least. Increase your assets enough that a small POS is worthwhile due to the enhanced production speed and then you also have access to fast ME, PE and copy slots with no wait (and you'll probably grow fast enough that this happens before you get ME time in a public slot). |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
480
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Welp, it's been a year. I have 3 invented BPC's for 9 Bustards. I should bake a few and see what happens......
Anyway, here is a little Mass Attack:
"In the end the carebear persists and continues on with their lives and game. You mistake their lack of interest in combat as an inability to know how to defend themselves, and you far far superior and much braver players scuttle around game mechanics for some kind of weakness. I'm not sure how anyone can arrive at the conclusion that this level of stubborness and resilience is weakness. I won't burden you with logic you can't grasp." Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "...as if 10,058 Goon voices-ácried out and were suddenly silenced" |
Rutherford Rainman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 04:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
One thing that I feel a lot of people overlook sometimes is the actual demand for the items you make. For example, in a perfect world I could make 8 million isk/hour making Capital Nuclear Reactors, but the fact of the matter is that nobody wants Capital Nuclear Reactors. I'm very picky about what I make, let alone buy a BPO for. Generally, I like to make sure that the prices are fairly stable over a three month period as well as being in constant demand. The drawback to making an item in constant demand however is the fact that generally the more stable items are stable because there are dozens of people making that same item, meaning profit margins are slim. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 05:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tekota wrote:Well I'm a manufacturer and I have to say it tweaked the needle on my nonsense meter a little too.
I'm not saying BPCs (for manufacturing, rather than invention) are a *bad* idea, and certainly not a bad idea in all circumstances but bearing in mind that margins on a very good chunk of T1 is very slim one often finds that BPC cost effectively eats all (or even more) of your profit.
Generally I'd say that if a BPO is too expensive at a given stage in career then look for cheaper BPOs rather than go straight to BPCs - the profit per slot per day does not always correlate with the cost of the BPO, and quite often the reverse is true.
Naturally I'd consider these rough rules of thumb, the only sure fire answer is as already suggested: lrn2 spreadsheet.
I think he's talking about buying BPCs to do short runs into price spikes. It's not a bad idea per se, but its going to require a lot of active tweaking to pull off.
|
Director Producer
Research Enterprise Ltd
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 07:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
These are tons of cheap BPO's (<15M isk), quite fast to research, allowing you to make large profits. However you will have to go looking for them by yourselft, that is the fun part |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 10:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
Director Producer wrote:These are tons of cheap BPO's (<15M isk), quite fast to research, allowing you to make large profits. However you will have to go looking for them by yourselft, that is the fun part I don't think he's in a position to do ME research on a timeline shorter than 3 weeks, and 15M is not that cheap since most of those you refer to can probably (I'm assuming you're referring to modules) be had in 1500 run copies for 500k that'll last weeks - and working capital is critical in a small venture. If he's producing mods 15M might be quite a few production slot-hours of capital. |
Director Producer
Research Enterprise Ltd
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 10:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
I am not talking about mods BPO.
When I said <15M, it means from 200k isk to 15M. Do not focus on the 15M only.
Anyway you are right on one point : researching ME is quite difficult in HS. However some BPO's can be profitable without any research.
As I said : take the time to find them and do your homework
|
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 11:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:Director Producer wrote:These are tons of cheap BPO's (<15M isk), quite fast to research, allowing you to make large profits. However you will have to go looking for them by yourselft, that is the fun part I don't think he's in a position to do ME research on a timeline shorter than 3 weeks, and 15M is not that cheap since most of those you refer to can probably (I'm assuming you're referring to modules) be had in 1500 run copies for 500k that'll last weeks - and working capital is critical in a small venture. If he's producing mods 15M might be quite a few production slot-hours of capital.
FYI these days max runs on module BPCs is 300. Some 1500 BPCs can still be found if they were made pre-Crucible, but there aren't many of those at all. |
Aluka 7th
Viziam Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 15:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hm.. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
94
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 17:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Here's a hidden gem for you: RvB
Centered around Poinen those guys run the biggest ship-grinder of high-sec. Combined, they blow up towards 200B ISK worth of ships and equipment every month. And while they are only a few jumps away from Jita, they are not allowed to enter that system unless using an alt.
So you get a situation where hundreds of active players, many quite wealthy, are willing to pay quite handsomely for the convenience of a well-stocked local market. Some of them go through a dozen of ships a day, often with full T2 kit. Added to this the fact that their shopping lists are directly available on their killboards and they generaly don't require a large diversity of mods, as long as they can buy it in bulk.
They do have some in-house production, but those don't seem to be able to keep up with the demand and they only seem to supply at the homesystem. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |