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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn
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Posted - 2008.09.19 19:19:00 -
[1]
Ok so for the first time ever I did the mythical Dual Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster setup on a CNR and sold my pimp fit (partially), and heres the results from The Blockade against Blood Raiders starting with fittings:
7 x Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher 1 x True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu - (Permaruns without it, but I am running missions against Blood Raiders so just a precaution)
2 x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster 2 x Photon Scattering Field II 1 x Heat Dissipation Field II 1 x Shield Boost Amplifier I - (I R n00b)
1 x Damage Control II - (For Shield resistance only, if you got a better idea what to put in the 5th low slot give it a shot) 4 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
1 x Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II - (It was only 40mil in Jita hard to resist) 2 x Capacitor Control Circuit I
Now the 3rd rig was the best choice possible for me and where i run missions currently, but it's a matter of taste and perhaps depends on your own style.
All I can say is: Without a problem, this fit works. I had to warp out once and that was only because of the facts that iam up against Blood Raiders and underestimated their Nos and thaught mine could keep up with it
Now the facts that it works against heavy EM rats is good since its the achilles heel of the Raven. The only thing I need to remember is focusing on the nossing rats next time.
Just a thread i made out of the blue to prove that this somewhat silly setup, works great. ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.09.19 19:23:00 -
[2]
blockade ? isn't it the one with the gate and multiple waves of ships ? I generaly don't need to start my rep in my sentry Domi ... nothing comes closer than 40km and if they do, they don't get past 50% of my shields ...
what's the fuss about ? --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Taua Roqa
Minmatar Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.09.19 19:31:00 -
[3]
yeah a dual pithi b-type tank will offer better tank than a t2 xl and t2 sba and permarun to boot as you pack 4 bcu and a DCII into the lows for cool damage output.
I was laughing when i tested it out and they actually worked, and most missions only require you use one of them. tanking level 4s with a single frigate shield booster is just funny hehe. If ya have crystal implants then even more winrar is you i suppose.
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Srioghal moDhream
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Posted - 2008.09.19 21:24:00 -
[4]
Never found much use for a 4th bcs but as for a low slot can always put a signal amplifier in there to increase targeting range and locking speed.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.09.19 21:43:00 -
[5]
This is similar to using a LSBII with 2 boost amps. Though, certainly a bit easier on the cap use.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.20 07:06:00 -
[6]
I trusted the fact that it worked when I scanned a few cnrs all with a similar fit and the pilots were 3 months old with 5.0 sec status.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.20 07:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 07:27:22
You can also use a Pithum C Med Booster + Boost Amp. Same Capusage but more Boost. Or if ISK isn't an Issue a Pithum A, boosts much more for the same Capusage and you have 1 more medslot free.
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.09.20 07:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gul Rashen Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 07:35:56
You can also use a Pithum C Med Booster + Boost Amp. Same Capusage but more Boost. Or if ISK isn't an Issue a Pithum A, boosts much more for the same Capusage and you have 1 more medslot free.
btw. 2 Pithi a or a Pithum Med offers only a weak Tank compared to the XL-boosters. It is only enough for lvl4 if you are carefull with Triggers and don't try an Angel Extravaganza Bonusstage with it. You can make the missions much faster with a better tank that can tank stageaggro. The Pithi A Variant is only good for ppl who fly with Torps and can't equipp Caprigs and for ppl who don't wanna spent too much money.
My Plan is to get a Pithum Medium, but atm my isk had to go elsewhere.
I don't agree that a large tank makes you run missions faster, atleast I've always proven myseelf otherwise with all ships i've used for level 4's, gank has always been superior. Never really bothered with the bonus room in AE tbh, especially now since CCP seems to have removed faction drops from it?
And as for the 4th BCU isn't that great, but it adds almost another 40 DPS, and locktime i never an issue for me except when i actually enter the mission and needs to lock a target and after that my launchers never rest. ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:02:00 -
[9]
Yepp, 4th BCU offers more DPS but still youre slower as with 2-3 BCU and a stronger Tank, believe me. I tested 2 Pithi A, Pithum A and Large II on my Torpgolem and only the Pithum A with some Crystalimps is enough to do all lvl4 very fast. With the others i had problems in some Missions. So its better to use a Large+3 BCU than 2 Pithi B and 4 BCU.
Boostamount per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=65 HP/s Pithum C + SBA II= 73,9 HP/s Pithum A + SBA II=103,4 HP/s Large II + SBA II=81,6 HP/s X-Large II + SBA II=163,2 HP/s Gist C XL + SBA=178,5 HP/s
Cap per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=18 Cap/s Pithum C + SBA II=18 Cap/s Pithum A + SBA II=18 Cap/s Large II + SBA II=36 Cap/s X-Large II + SBA II=72 Cap/s Gist C XL + SBA=40,3 Cap/s
As you see 2 Pithi offers the weakest Tank. I only know about ISK-Farmers using them cause they are by far cheaper than a Pithum.
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gul Rashen Yepp, 4th BCU offers more DPS but still youre slower as with 2-3 BCU and a stronger Tank, believe me. I tested 2 Pithi A, Pithum A and Large II on my Torpgolem and only the Pithum A with some Crystalimps is enough to do all lvl4 very fast. With the others i had problems in some Missions. So its better to use a Large+3 BCU than 2 Pithi B and 4 BCU.
Boostamount per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=65 HP/s Pithum C + SBA II= 73,9 HP/s Pithum A + SBA II=103,4 HP/s Large II + SBA II=81,6 HP/s X-Large II + SBA II=163,2 HP/s Gist C XL + SBA=178,5 HP/s
Cap per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=18 Cap/s Pithum C + SBA II=18 Cap/s Pithum A + SBA II=18 Cap/s Large II + SBA II=36 Cap/s X-Large II + SBA II=72 Cap/s Gist C XL + SBA=40,3 Cap/s
As you see 2 Pithi offers the weakest Tank. I only know about ISK-Farmers using them cause they are by far cheaper than a Pithum.
Explain "very fast". I've done a couple of more missions now and no warp outs so far i just dish out DPS. ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 08:25:33 Try an AE Bonus for example
The only Reason for 2 Pithis is the Price, for all PPL who have the ISK and aren't afraid of Sucide gankers it doesn't make sense. And if you don't wanna spent the ISK you can also take a Large II, its easy to fly it with 3-4 BCU with the same tank. I fly a Torpboat cause it offers the best Killspeed. With 2 Pithis i have to kill the first wave, trigger the 2., have to approach aso. With a stronger Booster i trigger all waves and can kill all nonstop.
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:27:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Elhina Novae on 20/09/2008 08:30:31
Originally by: Gul Rashen Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 08:25:33 Try an AE Bonus for example
The only Reason for 2 Pithis is the Price, for all PPL who have the ISK and aren't afraid of Sucide gankers it doesn't make sense. And if you don't wanna spent the ISK you can also take a Large II, its easy to fly it with 3-4 BCU with the same tank. I fly a Torpboat cause it offers the best Killspeed. With 2 Pithis i have to kill the first wave, trigger the 2., have to approach aso. With a stronger Booster i trigger all waves and can kill all nonstop.
Even using triggers I kill non-stop all the time. A Pithum Med is on the list but atm i had to invest my isk elsewhere so working on it. This thread was more a fun thing since running frigate boosters works in level 4's. Also tank for missions is overrated and people overdo it. I've never needed more then a 300 DPS tank or perhaps even less ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:34:00 -
[13]
Yepp, the 2 Pithis are an option. All i wanted to say, that they aren't the "Wonderthing".
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Elhina Novae
Destruction Reborn deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.09.20 08:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gul Rashen Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 08:39:07 Yepp, the 2 Pithis are an option. And it is remarkable that you can do lvl4 Missions with small Boosters. I did a GE with them, an AE without Bonusstage. It worked, but it was easier with a stronger Booster. All i wanted to say, that they aren't the "Wonderthing". They are a solution for all ppl who don't wanna spent much money, for all other not.
I never called them a wonderthing either, just pointed out it does work much better then expected. I remember doing missions with an Apocalypse with maybe 250 DPS tank at best using specifics and i never found it hard in any kind of way, it's easy to blow away the DPS before it can even touch you. But I guess it's all a matter of playstyle ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Sturmwolke
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.20 11:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gul Rashen
Boostamount per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=65 HP/s Pithum C + SBA II= 73,9 HP/s
Cap per Second: 2 x Pithi B Small=18 Cap/s Pithum C + SBA II=18 Cap/s
As you see 2 Pithi offers the weakest Tank. I only know about ISK-Farmers using them cause they are by far cheaper than a Pithum.
You're not quoting the whole picture. Slot by slot comparison does not represent a full ship's performance. The Pithi-B Small Booster offers a base ratio cap/shield HP of 3.25 vs 2.72 for Pithum-C Med Booster. It is more efficient when converting cap to shields.
The keystone that makes 2x Pithi-B Small Booster work is the swapping of the CCC with an Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer. Without the screen reinforcer, the tank is weak and there's way too much cap to spare ... which is pointless.
To improve on the OP's original tank, you can simply remove 1x Pithi-B Small Booster and replace it with 1x Pithum-C/B Med Booster. It will make the design slightly cap negative, but you'll get a much bigger transient boost that will last for several minutes. Enough time to kill enemy DPS. The sustained rating is slightly improved if the replacement is a B-type Med.
All in all, the defence is more or less equal to a passive CNR, but without the disadvantage in DPS.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.20 12:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 20/09/2008 12:44:24
Originally by: Sturmwolke
You're not quoting the whole picture. Slot by slot comparison does not represent a full ship's performance. The Pithi-B Small Booster offers a base ratio cap/shield HP of 3.25 vs 2.72 for Pithum-C Med Booster. It is more efficient when converting cap to shields.
?? This Thread is about Doubleboost with Pithis, isn't it? Ok, you need 2 Slots for it, OK? Whats wrong with it when i say that you can also use the 2 Slots for a Pithum C and a Boost Amp. You have the same Cap-Usage but more Boost, thats a fact. It doesn't matter that a Pithi B has a better Cap/shieldratio compared to a single Pithum C without SBA cause you have 1 more free Medslot with it. So single Pithum C vs Pithi B youre right, but put a SB in the free slot and calculate new. Or use a Pithum B for the calculation. Same cap/shield ratio as the Pithi.
Originally by: Elhina Novae But I guess it's all a matter of playstyle
/signed Yes, it is.
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Sidus Isaacs
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Posted - 2008.09.20 13:30:00 -
[17]
I was thinking of using two pith's. But I like my XL and CN boost amp, just got a loot of bang in it even if you have to micro :). Nice to know that the piths actually work tho.
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Sturmwolke
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gul Rashen Whats wrong with it when i say that you can also use the 2 Slots for a Pithum C and a Boost Amp. You have the same Cap-Usage but more Boost, thats a fact.
Nevermind my prev post You're correct with replacing the 2 slots with 1x Pithum C Med and 1x SBA. I just re-did the comparison, the cap/shield ratio is even better than the OP's 2x Pith B Small.
In fact, the differences between the two configuration is even bigger when you susbtitute the 2x SBA with a faction/deadspace SBA.
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Hotice
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:05:00 -
[19]
For blockade in Nightmare, I normally don't use SB much at all. Stuff die way before they could do damage. Nosf in that mission is more serious than damage output from the npc side honestly. If you want to test your tanking, test it in the Distress mission and kill that structure to summon all the secondary spawns at once.
As for dual booster setup on raven type. I just use a large gist x type large shield booster on my torp golem. Never had any issue on tanking in any missions. Yeah, it does cost more than two pithi b type booster but that is not really a big deal. I have two gistii a type small boosters too, tested them a bit but see no reason to use dual repair since cap isn't an issue on golem even with large booster running at full time. My gist x type large booster was from my old CNR, never had cap or tanking issue either. So, aside from cost issue, there is no reason to use dual boosters unless you jsut want to have some fun with that setup.
Bottem line, blood raider are weak at damage, if you want to test tanking, try it on merc missions. Much different result.
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.20 20:02:00 -
[20]
id like to know, in a nutshell, which will fail & which can permaboost with full aggro in AE 4 bonus.
2 x PithiB & SB II OR the Pithum A + SB II
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.20 20:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Adeena Torcfist id like to know, in a nutshell, which will fail & which can permaboost with full aggro in AE 4 bonus.
2 x PithiB & SB II OR the Pithum A + SB II
both should be -18 cap per second, so both should permaboost, but the pithum a-type with boost amp will give you quite a bit more shield per second.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.09.20 20:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hotice For blockade in Nightmare, I normally don't use SB much at all. Stuff die way before they could do damage. Nosf in that mission is more serious than damage output from the npc side honestly. If you want to test your tanking, test it in the Distress mission and kill that structure to summon all the secondary spawns at once.
As for dual booster setup on raven type. I just use a large gist x type large shield booster on my torp golem. Never had any issue on tanking in any missions. Yeah, it does cost more than two pithi b type booster but that is not really a big deal. I have two gistii a type small boosters too, tested them a bit but see no reason to use dual repair since cap isn't an issue on golem even with large booster running at full time. My gist x type large booster was from my old CNR, never had cap or tanking issue either. So, aside from cost issue, there is no reason to use dual boosters unless you jsut want to have some fun with that setup.
Bottem line, blood raider are weak at damage, if you want to test tanking, try it on merc missions. Much different result.
hell I'm not even afraid of the nos, I am afraid of the tracking disruptors, as that lets the nos get close, and that lets the dps get hurty
great thing about the marauders (and the nightmare) is they tend to do the most damage around 40km, which is tractor beam range (except for the nightmare)
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.20 23:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
both should be -18 cap per second, so both should permaboost, but the pithum a-type with boost amp will give you quite a bit more shield per second.
ok thanks. thats all i needed to know. Since it can permaboost tho, will it fail eventually? or can it repp & tank forver?
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.20 23:26:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 20/09/2008 23:26:10 Pithum A-type is the most efficient non-capital shield booster in the game AFAIK. Can push a Nighthawk up to 2K DPS permatank...
Dual Pithii-B types are a bit cheaper however, at 20mil each - as opposed to 1.2billion
- Infectious - |
Kale Raven
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Posted - 2008.09.21 02:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Adeena Torcfist
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
both should be -18 cap per second, so both should permaboost, but the pithum a-type with boost amp will give you quite a bit more shield per second.
ok thanks. thats all i needed to know. Since it can permaboost tho, will it fail eventually? or can it repp & tank forver?
ummm thats what permaboost means.........
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.21 03:22:00 -
[26]
sorry, i was under the impression that perma boosting was boosting till ur cap dies. can u boost without ur cap EVER dying AND sustaining your shileds without them ever dropping, thats the question i was trying to get at......
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GiveMeGape
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Posted - 2008.09.21 06:10:00 -
[27]
the op was simply trying to drum up interest for all those pithi b-type small shield boosters he's been trying to sell @ 40m each.....
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.09.21 12:19:00 -
[28]
Edited by: The Djego on 21/09/2008 12:19:34 Using undersized Boosters\Reppers is not that strange for L4 pro Fittings, you can get cap stable more easy and free some Powergrid and CPU.
I run the Abaddon with a Med Rep and 2 Hardners in a Blockade vs Blood, works just fine and frees lots of slots for Tracking and Damage Mods... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.09.21 20:27:00 -
[29]
It works pretty well actually when you consider doing missions strictly but a major problem is a lack of a burst tank. Some missions like AE bonus frontload a very large amount of damage that a typical sustained tank setup like this would unlikely be able to keep up with. With an XL booster you can tank a lot more damage to give you time to bring the total DPS down to a manageable level. The lack of a burst tank also leaves you very vulnerable to a suicide gank. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Veebora
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.21 20:43:00 -
[30]
Single Pithi B setup.
Linkage
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