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CSM's lack of class.

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Author	Topic
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:31:00 - [31] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/09/2008 20:31:19 Originally by: Aprudena Gist heh Jade talking about posting standards. Really? i guess you dont need to be here anymore. Well yes I will talk about posting standards. Case in point - you know that IGS forum here - the one tagged "roleplay discussions". When I post there I do so in an IC voice and respect the in-character nature of that forum and the characters posting there. This afternoon we've seen a lot of ooc smacktalk from the goons posting there. I think thats simply bad and your leadership should ensure that your members are taught better standards not encouraged to break the specific forum posting rules and spoil the forum experience for other players who want to roleplay their characters and organizations. I don't care that goons think roleplay is laughable. I do care that you don't respect the posting rules for specific sections. Hence I think it would be good if there was some kind of collective responsibility for an organization that seems collectively incapable of maintaining decent and responsible standards. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Jade Constantine I certainly feel strongly that I literally cannot post ANYTHING here without being abused, insulted, flamed and trolled at the moment. And thats a ridiculous situation for a player, let alone a CSM rep, let alone CSM chair to be in. So, it wouldn't have anything to do with the content of your posts, then?
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Jade Constantine Oh I still want that. I think it would be a great idea for the leaders of organizations to have collective responsibility for the posting standards of their members. I think eventually an organization that seems to promote pointless flaming as a default posting standard for its membership on eve online forums - should probably face temp-banning at the organizational level and be expected to improve. I'm glad you support a proposition whereby the weight of numbers would free us all from your posting forever. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Jade Constantine Well yes I will talk about posting standards. Case in point - you know that IGS forum here - the one tagged "roleplay discussions". When I post there I do so in an IC voice and respect the in-character nature of that forum and the characters posting there. This afternoon we've seen a lot of ooc smacktalk from the goons posting there. I think thats simply bad and your leadership should ensure that your members are taught better standards not encouraged to break the specific forum posting rules and spoil the forum experience for other players who want to roleplay their characters and organizations. I don't care that goons think roleplay is laughable. I do care that you don't respect the posting rules for specific sections. Hence I think it would be good if there was some kind of collective responsibility for an organization that seems collectively incapable of maintaining decent and responsible standards. Newsflash - Your standards are not everyone's standards. Get over it. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:35:00 - [35] Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/09/2008 20:31:19 Originally by: Aprudena Gist heh Jade talking about posting standards. Really? i guess you dont need to be here anymore. Well yes I will talk about posting standards. Case in point - you know that IGS forum here - the one tagged "roleplay discussions". When I post there I do so in an IC voice and respect the in-character nature of that forum and the characters posting there. This afternoon we've seen a lot of ooc smacktalk from the goons posting there. I think thats simply bad and your leadership should ensure that your members are taught better standards not encouraged to break the specific forum posting rules and spoil the forum experience for other players who want to roleplay their characters and organizations. I don't care that goons think roleplay is laughable. I do care that you don't respect the posting rules for specific sections. Hence I think it would be good if there was some kind of collective responsibility for an organization that seems collectively incapable of maintaining decent and responsible standards. I'll have you know that the smack talk is in character for goons as we are role playing the *******s of eve.
Odet Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Aprudena Gist Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/09/2008 20:31:19 Originally by: Aprudena Gist heh Jade talking about posting standards. Really? i guess you dont need to be here anymore. Well yes I will talk about posting standards. Case in point - you know that IGS forum here - the one tagged "roleplay discussions". When I post there I do so in an IC voice and respect the in-character nature of that forum and the characters posting there. This afternoon we've seen a lot of ooc smacktalk from the goons posting there. I think thats simply bad and your leadership should ensure that your members are taught better standards not encouraged to break the specific forum posting rules and spoil the forum experience for other players who want to roleplay their characters and organizations. I don't care that goons think roleplay is laughable. I do care that you don't respect the posting rules for specific sections. Hence I think it would be good if there was some kind of collective responsibility for an organization that seems collectively incapable of maintaining decent and responsible standards. I'll have you know that the smack talk is in character for goons as we are role playing the *******s of eve. In that case I'll ask you to take your role play to the role playing forum. _______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______ This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Odet I never stated their opinions should be controled in any way shape or form. I've clearly state that their opinions should be delivered in an appropriate manner suitable to the postion of of a CSM. If the CSM is unable to deliver his message in a respectful manner his post should be removed as any other poster, but face harsher penalities. I'll ask you to re-read my posts from the begining, it should help you get a clearer picture of what I am saying. I did read your posts and responded directly to them. Unless a CSM violates the EULA they are within their rights to act however they wish. Your opinion on what is acceptable and what isn't is irrelevant. People are different and neither you nor anyone else is the arbiter of morality or post quality. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Santaria Boon People are different and neither you nor anyone else is the arbiter of morality or post quality. See this is where I think you are wrong. The eve community needs involved in some way as arbiter of post quality (even if simply through the aegis of peer pressure) - because the community here is something worth preserving and we have seen a terrible reduction in post quality on these forums and something does need doing about it. Its simply not acceptable to see these Eve forums turned into SA forums mk2. It has to stop. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Santaria Boon People are different and neither you nor anyone else is the arbiter of morality or post quality. See this is where I think you are wrong. The eve community needs involved in some way as arbiter of post quality (even if simply through the aegis of peer pressure) - because the community here is something worth preserving and we have seen a terrible reduction in post quality on these forums and something does need doing about it. Its simply not acceptable to see these Eve forums turned into SA forums mk2. It has to stop. Or you could take things that work from SA. Pertinent to this, how about an ignore list? Don't like the user, add them to your ignore list and you never have to read their twaddle again. Pretty straight forward and egalitarian.
Odet Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 20:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Santaria Boon Originally by: Odet I never stated their opinions should be controled in any way shape or form. I've clearly state that their opinions should be delivered in an appropriate manner suitable to the postion of of a CSM. If the CSM is unable to deliver his message in a respectful manner his post should be removed as any other poster, but face harsher penalities. I'll ask you to re-read my posts from the begining, it should help you get a clearer picture of what I am saying. I did read your posts and responded directly to them. Unless a CSM violates the EULA they are within their rights to act however they wish. Your opinion on what is acceptable and what isn't is irrelevant. People are different and neither you nor anyone else is the arbiter of morality or post quality. So in your view a CSM should not have to be respectful? Diplomatic? Mature? _______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______ This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry

Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:05:00 - [41] Originally by: KeratinBoy Or you could take things that work from SA. Pertinent to this, how about an ignore list? Don't like the user, add them to your ignore list and you never have to read their twaddle again. Pretty straight forward and egalitarian. Well I can see some problems when I end up adding "goonswarm" as an organization to my ignore list and can't see issues that Darius or Bane want adding to agendas. But aside from that - there is the role these forums play as a "shopfront" and advertising venue for the game of Eve online. If it devolves to flamers flaming flamers (but protecting themselves with selective ignores) how does that look to Joe Public taking a quit peer at the forums? And is it fair to put the burden on administration on the ordinary player that just wants to see a decent standard of debate and discussion on these forums? Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Odet Originally by: Santaria Boon Originally by: Odet I never stated their opinions should be controled in any way shape or form. I've clearly state that their opinions should be delivered in an appropriate manner suitable to the postion of of a CSM. If the CSM is unable to deliver his message in a respectful manner his post should be removed as any other poster, but face harsher penalities. I'll ask you to re-read my posts from the begining, it should help you get a clearer picture of what I am saying. I did read your posts and responded directly to them. Unless a CSM violates the EULA they are within their rights to act however they wish. Your opinion on what is acceptable and what isn't is irrelevant. People are different and neither you nor anyone else is the arbiter of morality or post quality. So in your view a CSM should not have to be respectful? Diplomatic? Mature? Should is a nice word. The world should be buttercups and puppies. However, it seems to be economic meltdown and posturing at the moment. The CSM should be able to comprehend proposed game balancing and changing for the betterment of the game. However, it seems that some CSM members have little to no ability to understand how the game works. We can maybe fix the game but fixing people..?
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Odet So in your view a CSM should not have to be respectful? Diplomatic? Mature? Respectfulness, maturity and diplomacy are all subjective concepts and aren't an enforceable requirement of the EULA. If they're listed there as requirements that thing's a bigger piece of garbage than I thought. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:14:00 - [44] Originally by: Jade Constantine Well I can see some problems when I end up adding "goonswarm" as an organization to my ignore list and can't see issues that Darius or Bane want adding to agendas. Your choice, your problem. Quote: But aside from that - there is the role these forums play as a "shopfront" and advertising venue for the game of Eve online. If it devolves to flamers flaming flamers (but protecting themselves with selective ignores) how does that look to Joe Public taking a quit peer at the forums? ...They look like a bunch of angry weird nerds getting really angry about internet spaceships? Plus, who the hell looks at the forums for a game about blowing things up in space? Watch the promo vids, DL client and get 2 weeks free. Quote: And is it fair to put the burden on administration on the ordinary player that just wants to see a decent standard of debate and discussion on these forums? Pressing one button is a burden? Wow, the poor players actively deciding for themselves. We can set up helplines and stuff.
Odet Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Santaria Boon Originally by: Odet So in your view a CSM should not have to be respectful? Diplomatic? Mature? Respectfulness, maturity and diplomacy are all subjective concepts and aren't an enforceable requirement of the EULA. If they're listed there as requirements that thing's a bigger piece of garbage than I thought. It most certainly is not. I'm saying a CSM should be those things. _______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______ This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Jade Constantine Well I can see some problems when I end up adding "goonswarm" as an organization to my ignore list and can't see issues that Darius or Bane want adding to agendas. Don't sweat it champ, that's already been rectified by CCP via "report" button. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Odet It most certainly is not. I'm saying a CSM should be those things. Your completely subjective and unenforceable opinion can and should be noted. However your calls for administrative sanction based on that are what I take umbrage with. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Jade Constantine See this is where I think you are wrong. The eve community needs involved in some way as arbiter of post quality (even if simply through the aegis of peer pressure) - because the community here is something worth preserving and we have seen a terrible reduction in post quality on these forums and something does need doing about it. Its simply not acceptable to see these Eve forums turned into SA forums mk2. It has to stop. Rep system for the eve community. That's fine. I'm simply letting you know that what you're asking for is a world you'll be excluded from. What you do or don't find acceptable is irrelevant. These aren't your forums. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Odet Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Santaria Boon Originally by: Odet It most certainly is not. I'm saying a CSM should be those things. Your completely subjective and unenforceable opinion can and should be noted. However your calls for administrative sanction based on that are what I take umbrage with. Until you re-word your post/posts, in a more respectful manner, I will not debate or reply to you. If you do not wish to be respectful, I'll ask you to leave this discussion. _______I podded a Dev and all I got was this lousy Implant_______ This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:24:00 - [50] Originally by: Odet Originally by: Santaria Boon Your completely subjective and unenforceable opinion can and should be noted. However your calls for administrative sanction based on that are what I take umbrage with. Until you re-word your post/posts, in a more respectful manner, I will not debate or reply to you. If you do not wish to be respectful, I'll ask you to leave this discussion. That was a direct response to what you said and there is nothing remotely disrespectful in there. Until you can accept a meaningful discussion whereby you debate your points without crying offense when someone disagrees with you in a completely respectful manner I'll ask you to leave this forum. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto

KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:33:00 - [51] Odet, Santaria is correct. Opinions are subjective. You may or may not agree with how they are expressed but that is up to you. Are you telling me that you never heard anyone say something you thought was absolute hogwash and expressed as such to them. Personally, if I think someone is talking shit, I tell them they are talking shit. I get hit a lot less often than you might think, somewhat bafflingly.
Odet Malevolent Emo Herders Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:42:00 - [52] Originally by: KeratinBoy Odet, Santaria is correct. Opinions are subjective. You may or may not agree with how they are expressed but that is up to you. Are you telling me that you never heard anyone say something you thought was absolute hogwash and expressed as such to them. Personally, if I think someone is talking shit, I tell them they are talking shit. I get hit a lot less often than you might think, somewhat bafflingly. I agree opinions are subjective. The thread is not about your actions or my actions, or how you or I express them. It is about how the CSM's act and express themselves. Yes I have heard certain peoples opinions that I do not agree with. And I personally myself would tell them they were full of it. But, if I were in the position of a CSM, I would show restraint and not let my personal emotions or opinions get in the way of a debate. Since that is what were discussing, is the CSMs.
Santaria Boon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.19 22:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Odet I agree opinions are subjective. The thread is not about your actions or my actions, or how you or I express them. It is about how the CSM's act and express themselves. Yes I have heard certain peoples opinions that I do not agree with. And I personally myself would tell them they were full of it. But, if I were in the position of a CSM, I would show restraint and not let my personal emotions or opinions get in the way of a debate. Since that is what were discussing, is the CSMs. Then were you a CSM you could be a shining beacon for all that is good and right with the CSM. Personally I don't feel the CSM should be held to any higher ethical code than anyone else and anyone insinuating that it should or ever will be otherwise is living in a fantasy. Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Scagga Laebetrovo Evil Bastards Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.19 22:28:00 - [54] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 19/09/2008 22:28:37 Originally by: Jade Constantine Freedom of speech and all that. Perhaps a luxury you wouldn't afford others wherever you were to have the power to do so
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:33:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade Constantine I certainly feel strongly that I literally cannot post ANYTHING here without being abused, insulted, flamed and trolled at the moment. And thats a ridiculous situation for a player, let alone a CSM rep, let alone CSM chair to be in. You're a walking drama bomb with paper-thin skin. Of course you feel picked on - you start fights and then feel put out when people fight back. The problem isn't people picking on you unfairly - you get made fun of when you say stupid things, the same as everybody else(god knows I've had my share of it on forums over the years). The problem is that you're delusional about what normal interpersonal interaction looks like. You set out to make an enemy of two of the people on your council, and then you're surprised when one of them fights back. What, precisely, did you expect? Darius is not a particularly subtle or courteous man, but he's supposed to take your limitless abuse without saying anything in response? What fantasy world do you live in that that possibility is even worthy of consideration? Seriously, quit playing the "Oh, woe is me!" game. You are the single most powerful Eve player in the game - you're one of nine who gets direct access to CCP, and the head one at that. So what if people pick on you on the forums? Is your ego really so fragile that you can't take it? What does it matter to you if some avatar on the forums, who you'll never meet or even know the real name of, says unpleasant things about you? You should have known going in that you'd face abuse - politicians are routinely subjected to public inquisitions into family members, abuses of every criminal act that an opposition member think has the slightest chance of sticking, abusive lawsuits by the dozen, and the odd assassination to cap it all off. You're nowhere near so big or important as a President or Prime Minister, but you preside over the Eve forums, not a civilized nation. The only surprise thus far has been how little abuse you have received - you are being held accountable for some very shady actions by ten thousand anonymous, angry individuals(with far above-average numbers of guys and youth, for added self-restraint), and there's only been half a dozen threads that compare you unfavourably to Jack the Ripper. You should be glad, and instead you're acting like a whiny little emo kid, complaining that nobody knows how hard it is to lead exactly the same life as everybody else. Congratulations, you get abused on the Eve forums. You want a cookie? ------------------ Fix the forums!
Scagga Laebetrovo Evil Bastards Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.20 00:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto You are the single most powerful Eve player in the CSM - you're one of nine who gets direct access to CCP, and the head one at that. Fixed that for you
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.20 00:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto You want a cookie? Well done sir.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.20 01:03:00 - [58] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto You are the single most powerful Eve player in the CSM - you're one of nine who gets direct access to CCP, and the head one at that. Fixed that for you Sure, Molle and JOHNSON(and a few dozen others) are more powerful in-game, but in terms of ability to actually affect the game itself, I stand by the original (devs and their girlfriends excepted, of course). ------------------ Fix the forums!
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.20 06:05:00 - [59] Edited by: Yorda on 20/09/2008 06:06:00 Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto You are the single most powerful Eve player in the CSM - you're one of nine who gets direct access to CCP, and the head one at that. Fixed that for you Sure, Molle and JOHNSON(and a few dozen others) are more powerful in-game, but in terms of ability to actually affect the game itself, I stand by the original (devs and their girlfriends excepted, of course). Anyone can make suggestions to CCP. The only difference is they actually have to sit down and listen to the CSM (sorry ccp devs). Jade has absolutely no ability to effect the game itself, only an easire way of persuading the devs.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.20 12:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Yorda Anyone can make suggestions to CCP. The only difference is they actually have to sit down and listen to the CSM (sorry ccp devs). Jade has absolutely no ability to effect the game itself, only an easire way of persuading the devs. Which is still ahead of anybody else. ------------------ Fix the forums!

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