Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 13:48:00 -
[31]
Firstly, well researched and a nice profit centre that I know well (because I do it too ), though I only do it on an informal basis when supplies *really* dwindle...
However, to echo Shar's issue, you really shouldn't have identified the precise product (but certainly categorise the numbers) you're working with because everyone in here is a greedy opportunist, and now we're gonna see this market quite literally flooded.
Secondly, your exposing yourself to only one product, and a product that while it's used has a cyclical demand pattern that goes in peaks and troughs quite a lot, essentially depending on what campaigns are going on within the political powerblocs in nearby 0.0 more than anything. For example, when MAX started, there was a huge spike in cloaks that I firmly took a very comfortable advantage of.
As such, my biggest issue here, is that you need to diversify across a number of products in order to stabilize your income. I think you'd need at least 3 such modules (there are plenty of others that have demand profiles like cloaks) can be done alongside your alt-force. Please identify these, and you will have a high-stakes investor in me.
Director | www.eve-bank.net |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal Firstly, well researched and a nice profit centre that I know well (because I do it too ), though I only do it on an informal basis when supplies *really* dwindle...
However, to echo Shar's issue, you really shouldn't have identified the precise product (but certainly categorise the numbers) you're working with because everyone in here is a greedy opportunist, and now we're gonna see this market quite literally flooded.
Secondly, your exposing yourself to only one product, and a product that while it's used has a cyclical demand pattern that goes in peaks and troughs quite a lot, essentially depending on what campaigns are going on within the political powerblocs in nearby 0.0 more than anything. For example, when MAX started, there was a huge spike in cloaks that I firmly took a very comfortable advantage of.
As such, my biggest issue here, is that you need to diversify across a number of products in order to stabilize your income. I think you'd need at least 3 such modules (there are plenty of others that have demand profiles like cloaks) can be done alongside your alt-force. Please identify these, and you will have a high-stakes investor in me.
Though the price went up and down, it never dipped below 5m. It would have to go below 3.6m for this IPO to be completely unprofitable.
Covert and Improved are two items right there already. A third would not be too hard to find having similar properties. I'm at work right now, so I can't run the numbers to find it at this time.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Arthor Dark
Originally by: Shar Tegral
As for any kind of auditing, Kazuo is a good auditor when the blackbox is not sealed. (Again I'd offer but that would be bad form at this time.)
Actually, who would be best to do an audit than someone who's doing it already and knows what's needed? I'd love it if you ran an audit for me. I can't think of a better person.
Heh, this thread is rapidly turning into a cloak producers' party. I used to make them myself (on a more modest scale), but I sold off my BPOs and moved on to other things some time ago. ----- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Nomad JF for sale |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 15:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer That's a very large sum of ISK to ask for without collateral. Especially considering your only attempts at handling ISK was an abortive attempt at a 1B loan and that was only a few months ago. Though, you did handle YouGotRipped's trolling pretty well.... Do you have any alliance mates that could vouch for you or perhaps an old business partner of some repute?
Sadly, trust is always an issue and I'm afraid that needs to be addressed before matters of profitability, market volatility, scalability and such can be debated.
That 1B loan did fall through, I ended up hauling the stuff myself with corp mates as I recall. Actually, I really don't recall what the loan was for now.
As far as trust goes, I suppose I could get some names from my alliance / corp in this thread to vouch for me, but I would much rather not get them involved.
Seeing how much I can make a month keeping this legit there is little incentive for me to ruin the names of 21 chars, get kicked out of the corp / alliance, and having to start fresh. Getting kicked out of the alliance would suck as I have alot of assets still in that space which, as I mentioned before, would be hard to liquidate.
I hope that the fact that I have been with the same corp from the start, provided my main, alts, a forthcoming audit, have experience in t1, invention, hauling, sales and a working networth, would be sufficient for someone to buy a share.
I don't have any old business partners at this time. It's probably the same reason why I have 7 accounts :)
|
Auri Hella
Downwind Trading Guild
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 16:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal As such, my biggest issue here, is that you need to diversify across a number of products in order to stabilize your income. I think you'd need at least 3 such modules (there are plenty of others that have demand profiles like cloaks) can be done alongside your alt-force.
This is my main concern as well. I don't mind a small item portfolio, but just two cloaks is cutting it too close even for my tastes. A nerf to afk-cloaking isn't completely unthinkable, though perhaps unlikely at this point, and it would ruin this operation.
Secondly is the issue of trust. You say you can ask some alliancemates / friends to vouch for you but you'd rather not involve them. I'd rather like it if you did, to prove that these people actually exist and that you're willing to contact and bother them all.
If you can satisfy me on these two points and the audit/API sharing goes well I'd be prepared to take perhaps a couple of shares in this.
|
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 16:46:00 -
[36]
If you have some items you can put down as collateral (out of that 30b pot you own) EBANK would be happy to hold it for you. I wouldn't recommend collateralising 100% of the operation, maybe provide about 40%.
If you can round up that 40% (or 16b) worth of items for collateral, EBANK will reserve investment to the tune of 4b and I am sure you will get a pile more people jump in.
I like the look of your operation. I echo what Horizontal and a few others said regarding all eggs in one basket. I am also concerned you may not be able to sell all stocks on a monthly basis but even inventory doesn't lose it's value so worst case after 3 months you close operation but still have another few months to sell off remaining stocks.
I didn't actually know there was this much profit in this specific item. Don't worry I won't steal your idea, the thought of 600 odd build/copy/invention slots per month scares the crap out of me.
Anyway, theres your offer, catch me ingame or via one of my direct contacts here if you want to look at different options available |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ricdic If you have some items you can put down as collateral (out of that 30b pot you own) EBANK would be happy to hold it for you. I wouldn't recommend collateralising 100% of the operation, maybe provide about 40%.
If you can round up that 40% (or 16b) worth of items for collateral, EBANK will reserve investment to the tune of 4b and I am sure you will get a pile more people jump in.
I like the look of your operation. I echo what Horizontal and a few others said regarding all eggs in one basket. I am also concerned you may not be able to sell all stocks on a monthly basis but even inventory doesn't lose it's value so worst case after 3 months you close operation but still have another few months to sell off remaining stocks.
I didn't actually know there was this much profit in this specific item. Don't worry I won't steal your idea, the thought of 600 odd build/copy/invention slots per month scares the crap out of me.
Anyway, theres your offer, catch me ingame or via one of my direct contacts here if you want to look at different options available
I'm afraid I don't have any large items or big BPOs.
My Assets:
17bil in minerals spread across a 0.0 region, all in the process of being slowly moved to the right locations to be used for building.
200+ t1 BPOs (mods, frigs, cruisers)
5,000 t1 BPCs of those above
10bil+ of t1, rigs, and t2 on market orders in 4 systems.
3-4bil of certain items in case of a 'right' patch.
2bil in salvage.
2bil in buy orders.
15bil+ in characters.
How would I go about collateralising any of that without crippling myself?
|
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:13:00 -
[38]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 18/09/2008 17:15:46
Originally by: Arthor Dark
My Assets:
17bil in minerals spread across a 0.0 region, all in the process of being slowly moved to the right locations to be used for building.
200+ t1 BPOs (mods, frigs, cruisers)
5,000 t1 BPCs of those above
10bil+ of t1, rigs, and t2 on market orders in 4 systems.
3-4bil of certain items in case of a 'right' patch.
2bil in salvage.
2bil in buy orders.
15bil+ in characters.
How would I go about collateralising any of that without crippling myself?
Translation: The alliance already provided me with some assets to prove my case but if you people really want me to scam you, I will also need your help.
|
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:19:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Arthor Dark on 18/09/2008 17:20:35
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Translation: The alliance already provided me with some goods to prove my case but if you people really want me to scam you, I will also need your help.
A valid concern.
If you are implying that I commited corp theft in order to obtain these assets, then alright, I'll drop a message on the alliance boards today asking for vouches.
I'm sure if this was the case someone would have posted saying I was a corp thief by now. I would also not have set up an IPO where isk collection is half a month after the gurantees are put forth (i.e. plenty of time of corp theft evidence to be brought up.)
|
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Arthor Dark on 18/09/2008 17:31:05 Edited by: Arthor Dark on 18/09/2008 17:29:45
Originally by: Auri Hella
If you can satisfy me on these two points and the audit/API sharing goes well I'd be prepared to take perhaps a couple of shares in this.
Sounds good. I'll post on the alliance boards to get some of my mates to drop a post or two here.
When I get home I'll look into possibly a few more items, and then adjust the IPO plan accordingly.
Also, I'll see about contacting a couple of named people here in the thread about doing an Audit for me.
|
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ricdic If you have some items you can put down as collateral (out of that 30b pot you own) EBANK would be happy to hold it for you. I wouldn't recommend collateralising 100% of the operation, maybe provide about 40%.
If you can round up that 40% (or 16b) worth of items for collateral, EBANK will reserve investment to the tune of 4b and I am sure you will get a pile more people jump in.
I like the look of your operation. I echo what Horizontal and a few others said regarding all eggs in one basket. I am also concerned you may not be able to sell all stocks on a monthly basis but even inventory doesn't lose it's value so worst case after 3 months you close operation but still have another few months to sell off remaining stocks.
I didn't actually know there was this much profit in this specific item. Don't worry I won't steal your idea, the thought of 600 odd build/copy/invention slots per month scares the crap out of me.
Anyway, theres your offer, catch me ingame or via one of my direct contacts here if you want to look at different options available
If he gets an audit in place, and collateral in place and I'll gladly invest a hefty chunk |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:43:00 -
[42]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 18/09/2008 17:44:30
Originally by: Arthor Dark
Originally by: Auri Hella
If you can satisfy me on these two points and the audit/API sharing goes well I'd be prepared to take perhaps a couple of shares in this.
Sounds good. I'll post on the alliance boards to get some of my mates to drop a post or two here.
When I get home I'll look into possibly a few more items, and then adjust the IPO plan accordingly.
Also, I'll see about contacting a couple of named people here in the thread about doing an Audit for me.
Not so fast hotshot. You're either managing the production for your whole alliance or certain representatives are in this together... (After all, 40b is a lot of isk, no?) Or you could be the rightful owner of those assets... either way you're not getting a loan without the appropriate collateral being in place.
So do yourself a favor and also ask your alliance mates to help you gather the items you want to provided as collateral in one place.
|
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Not so fast hotshot. You're either managing the production for your whole alliance or certain representatives are in this together... (After all, 40b is a lot of isk, no?) Or you could be the rightful owner of those assets... either way you're not getting a loan without the appropriate collateral being in place.
So do yourself a favor and also ask your alliance mates to help you gather in one place the items you want to provided as collateral.
I'm thinking of two ideas to help with concerns of trust.
First, is instead of providing me with the 1000m per share, you could instead provide me with a portion of BPOs and Adv. Mobile Labs, since I'd need to buy those anyways with isk, you can do that instead and contract them to me.
Second, I would provide a month long collateral of a portion of my assets, that would be returned after a month after an audit concluding that I'm in fact doing what I set out to do with IPO. This way, those assets can get back to work without crippling me for an extended amount of time.
Given those two things, if I was indeed a scammer, it would leave me with less isk (spent on GTCs), and alot of items that are hard to move (labs, BPOs.)
This of course is not nearly full proof, but it's something.
|
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 18:04:00 -
[44]
Would you be willing to use an alt corp and have the BPO's locked down by an alt of someone especially trustworthy, I'm thinking Ricdic or some other EBANK member?
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 18:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Would you be willing to use an alt corp and have the BPO's locked down by an alt of someone especially trustworthy, I'm thinking Ricdic or some other EBANK member?
Great idea. Sure. That makes 45% of the investment secure. Also, you can do the same thing for mobile labs - lock the unanchoring / offline rights with an EBANK member.
With the mobiles labs, and the POSs, this would bring it up to 25,440m secured, or 63%.
So, I would need someone from EBANK to setup a corp, anchor / online the labs and buy / place the BPOs in place. Then invite the copy alts, and I can take it from there.
|
Researching Duchess
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 18:44:00 -
[46]
Fantastic, this will be the alt doing the security.
Now, I really don't like the idea of having to setup a corp, standings etc but I might know just the corp for the job. The corp was created for me by someone but I never actually wanted it at the time. It has high empire standings for caldari i believe.
Corp has ticker of RIN5E (note the 5). I will let you guys see what that stands for |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 18:47:00 -
[47]
Duchess is mine above ^^ |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 19:32:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Robacz on 18/09/2008 19:32:45
Interesting plan, I hope you will get the ISK. Even though I won't invest (as I (almost) never invest in IPOs), I would like to offer you co-operation. I run goods distribution network covering 30+ systems in 12 different regions, so if you want to reduce your workload and outsource retailing (and related logistics) - let me know.
Either way, good luck.
|
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 20:53:00 -
[49]
Ok so here's the lowdown:
1) Researching Duchess (my alt) will get the new corp opened up with standings so that Arthor can get the pos's deployed
2) Operation specifics changing a bit, he will clarify but basically downsizing by approx 50% basically as a security measure (make sure it all goes ok then expand later)
3) Security will be in the form of the bpo's. They will all be locked down in the location npc station. I will be CEO. Arthor and his alts will basically be worker bee's with full accountancy and hangar access but no shares or director with which to post an unlock vote request.
4) The security will only extend to those which I have complete control over, that being the bpo's valued at 9 billion isk. On a 23b IPO this constitutes a 39% security on this operation.
5) EBANK won't be charging Arthor to act as a security however have reserved the rights to 9b worth of shares. In the event of scam/default the 39% security applies to both EBANK and investors (in other words it's not EBANK secured, everyone else not secured)
6) Arthor will be purchasing the bpo's himself however whilst holding these funds to do so (9b) I will have control over approx 10b of his mineral holdings temporarily during this time to ensure the 39% is matched.
7) In the event of a scam the 39% will be provided to investors in whole.
8) In the event of a hit by bus scenario (that where the OP vanishes from Eve leaving the corporation fully functional) EBANK will liquidate the corporation in full and return all capital minus a 10% processing fee.
(This basically means that we liquidate everything and pay people back likely well above the 39%, however our processing fee is for the time and work spent having to liquidate an entire operation)
9) Final point for now, seeing as I have extensive research knowledge (C-R-A) and I am securing the assets it makes sense that I conduct the audit. All API (and other) data is currently being forwarded to me. As per normal, audits are not a sign of confirmation as to the legitimacy of an operation simply a factual, verified summary of internal operations.
Please let me know if I have missed anything. I believe Arthor will have another post up shortly listing the various changes he has made to the operation since our conversation. It's 7am, well past my bedtime so forgive me if I missed any vital data |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:00:00 -
[50]
Pending the OP's agreement to the above stated and Ricdic's confirmation of receipt of security, I'll take 3B in shares.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
|
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:06:00 -
[51]
Confirming what Ricdic has already said. The IPO has been reduced by about half as is now indicated in the original post. There will be some security in the form of the BPOs.
|
Childeric III
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:08:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Childeric III on 18/09/2008 21:09:15 Merotech reserves 5 Billion ISK worth of shares!
EDIT: I am out of town this weekend, will be back sunday!
|
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:12:00 -
[53]
By the way, what is your dividend scheduling looking like? Weekly? Monthly? Bi-monthly? A start up period without dividends followed by a period of increased dividends to pay back the difference?
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Arthor Dark
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer By the way, what is your dividend scheduling looking like? Weekly? Monthly? Bi-monthly? A start up period without dividends followed by a period of increased dividends to pay back the difference?
Monthly. Also, I should be able to pay dividend 30 day after the start of the IPO.
|
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:17:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 18/09/2008 21:24:35 In that case I would like to increase my reservation to 5B.
EDIT: that was supposed to read 5B not 4B.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:23:00 -
[56]
I'll take 2 bil. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Waseem
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 22:32:00 -
[57]
I will reserve 3b.
|
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 23:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Arthor Dark
The IPO has been reduced by about half as is now indicated in the original post.
Might want to change the subject of the thread to reflect that as well, to avoid confusion. --
|
Kribor
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 23:03:00 -
[59]
If there is still place for my investment, I would like to reserve 1b. If not maybe for your expansion :)
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 23:11:00 -
[60]
finally something i can wrap my head around
reserving whatever is left - putting the gist back into logistics |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |