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Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.17 22:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arithron on 17/09/2008 22:30:02
The purpose of this discussion is to come up with ideas (or ideals) that we would like to see from a CSM. The current interaction by CSM members with players ranges from good to downright non-existent. I see a number of issues, which I'll try and state:
1. I think an ideal for the CSM is for all members to represent and interact with all players and discuss issues brought forth on the merits of the issue. This is via the forums, in meetings and with other CSM members outside of meetings (via in-game channel, mailing list/private forum etc).
Currently, from posting histories, this area has been poor for many members. Discussion of issues outside of meetings has been limited, with some members seemingly just showing for meetings when required.
Players may try to justify this behavior as æbeyond the control of the CSMÆ, blaming tools available (we have all heard the poor forum arguments etc). I donÆt buy these excuses really; some members (and alternates and interested players) have excellent thread discussions and interaction. You make, IMO, the best possible use of the resources available till better comes along.
2. As expected, some CSM members have personal or alliance agendas (which may be just to occupy a spot to stop others doing so), and canÆt look beyond these to serve the best interests of the majority of players.
To a degree, voters are to blame for this. However, different viewpoints are essential to meaningful discussion, so this should enrich the ideas and solutions that the CSM puts forward. By this, I mean solutions will take account of different facets of play and play style, so that the best interests of the majority are met. Good issues and ideas would stem forth from meaningful dialogue; bad ideas and issues might not make it to the agenda. At least discussion prior to meetings would give an issue proposer a good idea of where CSM members stood and could adjust the solution to take account of other perspectives. It would also probably make meetings run a little faster and smoother.
A solution to involvement of CSM members in discussions is holding regular discussion meetings, with major issues or topics on a list for discussion. These meetings would help clarify a particular problem (many issues that make it onto current agendas have poorly defined problems or are too broad, hence fail to be escalated). Proposed solutions or new ideas could also be developed in these meetings.
3. Meetings, especially of late, seem to have been a little infrequent, hence make held meetings longer.
This may be a product of some CSM members bringing poor issues to the agenda, pursuing their own agendas and disregarding the wider player issues for the sake of their own. Bugs, tweaks and ship rebalancing æissuesÆ also fill the agenda. This makes for long meetings, tests endurance and generally sees many issues fail to get escalated.
(cntd)
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Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.17 22:29:00 -
[2]
IÆd propose that the next CSM holds weekly meetings, with at least one being a discussion meeting per month. The dates and times, of course, all published at the START of a CSM tenure.
4. How does the CSM interact and reach out to the majority of players that DONÆT use the forums?
I come across these players every day. Many donÆt even know the forums exist (some are 3 yr old characters). Now, a good chunk of the Eve players just donÆt care about the CSM or forums; they just play the game. However, I canÆt for one minute entertain the idea that those that care or could care all visit the forums.
What other methods can a CSM use to reach these players?
Anyway, post away (try and be constructive) your ideas and suggestions to improve these areas. If IÆve missed something, please be sure to add it! I firmly believe that the CSM can be an effective voice for the players, and itÆs not just a publicity stunt by CCP!
I also firmly believe that being a member of the CSM is a privilege and carries with it a responsibility to serve the players (not just the voters that elected a member). If you run and donÆt really participate, you miss an opportunity to make a difference. If you donÆt believe that, then I believe you shouldnÆt be on the CSM.
Take care,
Arithron (Bruce Hansen)
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.09.18 02:46:00 -
[3]
You will always lose members to apathy and attrition - it's virtually unavoidable. Either they find the job to be harder than predicted and thus find themselves unable(or unwilling) to make time for it, or they just wanted it to pad their resume in the first place. There's nothing you can do about this, except to elect better people next time.
Regarding meetings, the current lack of them is ridiculous, and I shudder at the thought of your next agenda, and at the thought of how many good ideas that would normally have gotten advanced are going to be ignored because they're now a month old and on page 15.
Regarding reaching players who don't use the forums, I think CCP's in-game advertisement of the elections are your best path here. The current CSM should ensure that the next such announcement includes links to JPSC, and to the past accomplishments of the first CSM(and I mean things actually implemented or about to be, not just talk), as well as other info that would be good at reaching out to non-forumers and getting them involved. That said, don't expect miracles here - most people just aren't going to care, no matter what you do, and if we ever see even a 20% voter turnout I'd be surprised. Just make sure we're here to implement good ideas and weed out bad ones, and to listen to people who raise concerns, whether it's their first post or 10,000th.
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Fix the forums! |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.09.18 04:15:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
1. I think an ideal for the CSM is for all members to represent and interact with all players and discuss issues brought forth on the merits of the issue. This is via the forums, in meetings and with other CSM members outside of meetings (via in-game channel, mailing list/private forum etc).
It's utopia to think that we can interact with all players, despite how awesome it would be. I would love more interaction indeed. But the current structure of how things work does not promote discussion in any shape, way or form. The assembly hall threads gets filled with /signed, making it impossible to discuss anything.
But yes, it can always improve if the members of the council wants to.
Quote:
2. As expected, some CSM members have personal or alliance agendas (which may be just to occupy a spot to stop others doing so), and canÆt look beyond these to serve the best interests of the majority of players.
Just a bloody shame really. You can't fix this, it's democracy. We might find that some things are just better done by the developers rather than people with personal interest.
But I DO think we represent a wide area of people. I can't think of any which isn't represented.
Quote:
3. Meetings, especially of late, seem to have been a little infrequent, hence make held meetings longer.
I agree. Too much discussion happening which should have been done before the meeting. Lets put the blame on lack of a "good" place to discuss issues before a meeting.
I also discussed about streamlining the process and putting the issues into catergories. You note the bug, tweaks and rebalancing filling the agenda, which I agree on. It needs to be sorted.
Quote:
4. How does the CSM interact and reach out to the majority of players that DONÆT use the forums?
I would put people into 3 boxes:
1. The people who don't know about CSM but who is interested
2. People who do not care about it
3. People who are already interacting with it to some capacity
The problem is that you want to reach the 2 first groups of people. Of course, it goes without saying that some people who aren't aware of the forums, simply do not care about it. We can blame this on the poor quality of the forums and posts on it.
But some people we simply wont reach without help from CCP. Our only option is getting in touch with corporations and people in random local areas. While I'm considering that to be an option, it's a VERY time consuming process for little reward on the large scale.
Quote:
IÆd propose that the next CSM holds weekly meetings, with at least one being a discussion meeting per month. The dates and times, of course, all published at the START of a CSM tenure.
I think the idea of a discussion meeting is "ok". But the text format is really poor. Just look at all the chatlogs so far. It would HAVE to be done over ts/vt. Or it should be done on the forum during the week. The CSM is not supposed to be busy only on weekends when there's meetings.
I'm personally in favor of the forum discussions during the whole week. It's a lot more transparent as well and it doesn't turn into a pig with lipstick on, hunting for it's own god damn tail
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Bane Glorious
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Posted - 2008.09.18 04:53:00 -
[5]
Hey man, anybody can talk to me any time they want, so get off my case. |
Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.09.19 12:50:00 -
[6]
NPC corp chat works wonders, as you get a nice selection of random people.
I had quite a few discussions in the Aliastra channel in the past, and now I just approach random people in local or the militia channels and try to get them involved.
I used to have a blog but that got hacked and spammed to hell, still need to fix that if I have the time for that some day, but at least we'll work on a wiki soon, I think that benefits the CSM more than individual pages.
Just waiting for people to come to you doesn't work very well, you actively need to approach people.
---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.20 04:42:00 -
[7]
I believe the CSM is an excellent idea gone awry. The basic discussion format of proposed changes seems to me to be mostly under-utilised. In addition, we have had an expansion from CCP that seemed to ignore a lot of the hot topics the CSM are trying to bring forward.
Now the basic founding principle of the CSM - to me - was accountability of CCP to the players, i.e., What the hell are you guys doing? Additionally, a core principle of the CSM should be transparency, i.e., this is what we are doing, when we are doing it and why.
Now, speaking as a 0.0 dweller, I feel a shade ignored. Most of the press for this game focuses on 0.0 and its shenanigans. Nevertheless, I see a lot of Empire fixes, so to speak. I realise that the vast swathes of players occupy Empire - along with 0.0 alts - so catering to your extant playerbase is a no-brainer.
On the other hand, exactly how many empire dwellers love running missions and such? How many have enjoyed Faction Wars? How many of those have developed a taste for trying their luck out in 0.0?
It seems to me that the simplest way to learn about what people want for the CSM and CCP to come up with a questionnaire, and advertise it when we boot up the client - "WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM EVE?", leave it up for a month and then collate.
As regards the inner mechanisms of the CSM, well, people will be people, even in internet space. Much like in real life, toleration of idiocy, laziness and downright rudeness will get you more of the same. It is up to the CSM as people to deal with it.
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