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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lisa Fenrir
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:15:00 -
[1]
This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things... so for S&G I would like someone from CCP to define it.
And no, no ones been bothering me ingame
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Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time
Then maybe you should get out more.... -----------------
My EvE Comic
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:25:00 -
[3]
Griefing, as I understand it by reading between the lines from CCP is:
Declaring War and attacking another corporation or NPC with no roleplay effort, basically for nothing more than killing that entity without regard.
What it seems that they want us to do is ransom, or have conversations before hostilities commence.
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Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Darkeen on 11/09/2008 03:31:36 Hi,
Refer this:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=73214&page=1#4
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Ron Silver
Caldari Artificial Intelligence Inc The Giant Secure Container
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ron Silver on 11/09/2008 03:33:02
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Griefing, as I understand it by reading between the lines from CCP is:
Declaring War and attacking another corporation or NPC with no roleplay effort, basically for nothing more than killing that entity without regard.
What it seems that they want us to do is ransom, or have conversations before hostilities commence.
Hmmm.... That doesn't really work either if you are RPing a chaotic evil bastard character that enjoys killing without regard, or a character with mental issues that just a plain homicidal maniac.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ghoest on 11/09/2008 03:39:25 War Decing a corp of low skill players in high sec just so you can blow up their modestly equiped Battle Cruisers would be griefing by pretty much every definition I know.
Podding people at low sec gate camps is griefing by every definition I know.
Basically if you hurt other people in a game and gain nothing signifiant for it(either material or tactical) then you are a griefer.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:38:00 -
[7]
What is wrong with the definition of grief play given in the Knowledge Base?
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Banana Torres What is wrong with the definition of grief play given in the Knowledge Base?
It has "Related Articles What kind of a game is EVE Online?" after the definition -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Lisa Fenrir
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:42:00 -
[9]
Quote: A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersĘ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
Odd, one could take it to mean that all pirates are, in fact..griefers and should be banned not that that will ever happen.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:44:00 -
[10]
Quote: 12.11 What is grief play?
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersĘ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
Found here
Pink Dread has been hijacked
Griefing, and losing, are not always the same thing. People are more than willing to throw around the term 'greifing' because they are upset or something caused them 'grief.'
But, killing someone who is lower SP than you is not griefing. Killing someone with no intent other than to kill them is not griefing.
Tougher skin is what most need.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Grift
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:45:00 -
[11]
Griefing is any act which causes enough people to whine that CCP feels forced to change it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
I agree with all that. Being a roleplayer myself, there are many instances where I might attack someone for no other reason than they are my 'hated enemy' or whatnot.
But a 'criminal' in game is not necessarily wrong or a griefer. The roleplay means they are bad, but the mechanics are put in place to allow them to be bad in the first place, no?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 03:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
That sounds reasonable.
The problem I always have is distinguishing the age in which I can enslave them.
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
Wow, you are so wide of the mark you just hit Jupiter.
Griefing can be as simple as bumping someone.
It is not the act that makes it grief play it is the intent behind the act. If the intent in to deprive someone of their enjoyment of the game for no other reason than you are a sociopath then you are indulging in grief play. And you will be stopped.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Akita T Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
Wow, you are so wide of the mark you just hit Jupiter.
Griefing can be as simple as bumping someone.
It is not the act that makes it grief play it is the intent behind the act. If the intent in to deprive someone of their enjoyment of the game for no other reason than you are a sociopath then you are indulging in grief play. And you will be stopped.
I think he missed "bumping", but then "bumping" could be employed in the destruction of one's ship, so it's conditional. Outside of that, I think Akita covered it pretty well.
All other contact that didn't fall in the categories above sound pretty fair to me, in a PVP game.
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Ron Silver
Caldari Artificial Intelligence Inc The Giant Secure Container
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ron Silver on 11/09/2008 04:13:10 Look, if something bad happens to you in EVE its YOUR fault. Everyone agrees to this. Everything else is QQ.
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Grift
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:14:00 -
[18]
Griefing in reality is simply schadenfreude, except in causing the misfortune yourself. Any act committed in order to injure someone for your own enjoyment is griefing.
It's a universal part of games.(And frankly, life.) Those who complain about it are usually just as guilty, and unwilling to accept that sometimes you're on the wrong side of it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Banana Torres Wow, you are so wide of the mark you just hit Jupiter. Griefing can be as simple as bumping someone.
Bumping someone to keep him from warping/jumping until some of your friends arrive to kill him is a CCP approved tactic. Bumping someone to keep him from warping/jumping with no intent to harm/scam/ransom him at all however is considered griefing, yes, I did miss that from the original list.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:33:00 -
[20]
It doesn't really matter what we consider to be griefing as CCP has shown they are planning to steamroll over most Eve-sensible definitions and simply dictate some sort of funky high-sec NAP 'unless-you-get-permission-from-your-Mum' style of war decs.
Which isn't the Eve I pay for, frankly.
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Sekh Ondaari
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sekh Ondaari on 11/09/2008 04:46:23 If you're in the process of occupying a highsec system, and there's a miners rebellion you'r tring to demotivate and squelch. Is disabling, scraming and webbing a barge for hours asking him to self-destruct for the extra demoralization griefing?
EDIT: Whoa, almost chocked when I got the "This character does not belong to you"-screen when trying to post. Yeah sure, concord being notified but did the mods ban my account before I even had time to click the post button?(Hah, got another one for the edit...)
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.11 04:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Grift Griefing is any act which causes enough people to whine that CCP feels forced to change it.
this.
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NoOth3rDestiny
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Posted - 2008.09.11 06:20:00 -
[23]
In many games I've played I've seen griefers. This ranges from:
- Kill Stealing - Camping Boss/Quest spawns preventing others from doing them even though you've done them a few times atleast - Exploiting something to give yourself a massive advantage over other people, then abusing it to ruin everyone else's game - etc
For Eve I'd say along the following: - Ganking noobs or even attacking noobs by baiting them with cans or fleet invites stating they want to help etc - War deccing noob corps who can't possibly defend against your corp, where the noob corp has done nothing to warrant it - Exploiting game mechanics to provide advantage over other players and abusing that exploit
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2008.09.11 08:12:00 -
[24]
Just forget the word entirely. 'Griefing' doesn't have a definition here because it doesn't exist here. This term comes from elf-games where critisizing a fellow elf's leggings is considered 'griefing'. Why are people trying to apply it to Eve? Almost everything in this game would be considered 'griefing' if you did it in those games.
Only two things matter: What is allowed in Eve, and what isn't. Using silly slang terms just serves to confuse the matter. --
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Tabasco Samurai
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Posted - 2008.09.11 08:39:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tabasco Samurai on 11/09/2008 08:41:09
Originally by: Aioa Just forget the word entirely. 'Griefing' doesn't have a definition here because it doesn't exist here. This term comes from elf-games where critisizing a fellow elf's leggings is considered 'griefing'. Why are people trying to apply it to Eve? Almost everything in this game would be considered 'griefing' if you did it in those games.
This.
If you follow a noob round for three days podding him every time he undocks, thats probably gonna get your wrists slapped by CCP and rightly so. But this is a game of bullying, vendettas and random agression. The idea that war deccing someone without a "role play" reason, or podding someone on a gate camp is somehow wrong is utterly ridiculous. The joy of this game is that you can run a protection racket, bully smaller less able corps. The further joy of this game is that those corps can adapt, learn, and come back with their friends to get their revenge.
The game punishes you for podding by damaging your sec status - thats how it works. You are free to operate how you wish.
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CCP Dionysus
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Posted - 2008.09.11 08:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
You know, that strikes a pretty good point :) I'd have to say I mostly agree with this. Although, as you said later, things like "bumping to keep someone from warping, without killing or stealing" constantly would be pretty much greifing as well.
Being an annoying git and going out of your way with no possibility for profit to do it is griefing. If you had miners in a belt, and then had corp mates systematically bump non corpies until they left the belt wouldn't be griefing, as you are defending "your" belt. Of course, expect to be war decced to kick you out of said system
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.09.11 09:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lisa Fenrir This has bothered me for some time, seems what they consider griefing and what one would expect it to mean are 2 different things
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
You know, that strikes a pretty good point :) I'd have to say I mostly agree with this. Although, as you said later, things like "bumping to keep someone from warping, without killing or stealing" constantly would be pretty much greifing as well.
Being an annoying git and going out of your way with no possibility for profit to do it is griefing. If you had miners in a belt, and then had corp mates systematically bump non corpies until they left the belt wouldn't be griefing, as you are defending "your" belt. Of course, expect to be war decced to kick you out of said system
How about, "If they can't wardec/shoot you for doing it, it's griefing"?
Oh, and about those NPC corps ... _
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.11 09:54:00 -
[28]
Greifing is in the intention, not the action, which is why there is no griefing in EVE.
If you are looking for things which will be viewed as griefing though... anything which uses exploits to screw with players (though it is redundant since you are using an exploit anyway), certain things in starter systems, and things which truly net you no gain (like bumping a ship indefinitely for no particular reason, not like podkilling a random person in lowsec). -
DesuSigs |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 09:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Akita T
Targetting people who couldn't possibly have angered you in the past (i.e. people you never had contact with) from which you can't possibly hope to gain anything even remotely significant by killing them (i.e. newbies that barely created their account), while also being in a highsec system (more precisely, the starter system), and doing it all in some way that exploits their lack of knowledge in game mechanics OR using an exploit to make some target's life harder.
In other words: * can-baiting newbies (intentionally and with the purpose of destroying them "for lulz") in starter systems is griefing * using a game bug/exploit to cause/aid in the destruction of a target is griefing * intentionally generating lag (be it server-side on the entire node or just client-side for your target) is greifing
EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T GRIEFING. Quite simple, actually.
There are however other bannable offenses outside of griefing, most notable one being real-life threats or particularly strong racist language.
You know, that strikes a pretty good point :) I'd have to say I mostly agree with this. Although, as you said later, things like "bumping to keep someone from warping, without killing or stealing" constantly would be pretty much greifing as well.
Being an annoying git and going out of your way with no possibility for profit to do it is griefing. If you had miners in a belt, and then had corp mates systematically bump non corpies until they left the belt wouldn't be griefing, as you are defending "your" belt. Of course, expect to be war decced to kick you out of said system
I approve of this definition and way of thinking Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.09.11 10:01:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 11/09/2008 10:02:28
Quote:
Greifing is in the intention, not the action, which is why there is no griefing in EVE.
That doesn't mean there isn't griefing, there's loads of it. The game is designed with griefing in mind, among other things, and it's supported by CCP.
People use the word as if it's a legal term, CCP being the judge&jury in addition to being the legislators. It's not a legal term though, i.e. it's not defined by rules set by CCP. Like you say, griefing is in the intent, and there is a lot of malicious intent in Eve.
Never confuse morals or ethics with laws, or in this case game rules.
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