Originally by: Vikarion

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Dear Carebears and other assorted scum...

I come before you on this day a victim of your endless whining, your groaning before the devs, your relentless attempts to make this game I love - yes, love, for it is one of my few entertainments and hobbies - into a relative, nay, a clone, of the pernicious and obnoxious cardboard-cut-out, cookie-cutter, unfailingly bland and unrelentingly boring "game" known as World of Warcraft.

One month shy of a year ago, I joined Eve after a long pilgrimage through various genres of MMORGS, looking for that fabled game that would give me true interaction. By chance - great, fortunate chance, or perhaps even blessing from a higher power - I discovered the wonderfully written story on the ambitious and daring heist by the fabled Guiding Hand Shining Club. I was amazed! Finally, a true sandbox, a world where anything could happen, a world with danger lurking around every corner.

I immediately subscribed! Not the 14-day trial for me, no. No, I was in. And, great PvPer that I am, I went racing off in my shiny Ibis to...mine. And mine. And mine some more. Slowly, and through the help of a generous player, I eventually gathered enough ISK to acquire an Osprey. It was a big step up. Dodging can-flippers and pirates, I scrabbled for every last ISK, and eventually made it to where I am today: a macro-killing, suicide-ganking, war-deccing griefer and pirate.

I have scrambled for the top relentlessly. Countless hours I have spent, staring at the screen, waiting for that last asteroid to pop, that market order to be sold, that last NPC to give up the ghost, that officer to finally spawn.

When I was a newbie, I did not whine when someone flew into the belts and popped my jetcans, despite the fact that they represented hours of work. When I got lofty'd and lost a billion ISK of ship and fittings because I tried to help someone, I did not whine, I merely posted a little tutorial on the forums on how to avoid it. When people tried to suicide gank me, they failed, because I never piloted AFK with anything good.

But you, you want the game to adapt to your needs, your desires, rather than using your mind to set the odds in your favor. You condemn suicide gankers as "gank-bears", and pirates as "pie-bears", and proclaim that CCP needs to eliminate us from the game.

Well, CCP listens to you, even if they ignore our concerns, and it may soon be all your way. Suicide ganking will no longer be profitable under any circumstances, war-decs will be eliminated or nerfed. I have no doubt that can-flipping and baiting will also soon be cut. CCP has decided - as elucidated by CCP Grayscale - that the illusion of danger is all that is needed in hi-sec. The reason that I joined - because I was always in danger and that the game was all about what players did - no longer seems like even a mild topic of interest to CCP's designers, who now merely try to appeal to the widest demographic.

Know this: that I, and I hope others like me, will not give up. I have no intention of lying down for these changes, or going gently into that soft, fluffy good night of PvP flagging and safe zones. I will whine, *****, scream, moan, troll, and lurk. I will kill your pods, gank your ships, pop the macro haulers you buy isk from, encourage those who scam you (though I do not scam myself), war-dec you, can-flip you, haunt you through your every moment in game and on the forums.

You see, I hate your pusillanimous whines, your endless calls for those outside of yourselves to help you, your desire to have the playing field tilted in your direction. I hate your willingness to smacktalk, cheat, lie, and act crudely before running to the safety of Concord. Most of all, I hate your utter unwillingness to let Eve be what it was, and your desire to change it into your own little version or a carebear haven.

Flame on.

-Vikarion

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Originally by: Druadan

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Carebears are ****ing ruining this game. But the ebb and flow is how this shit works. If we're lucky, the game itself will ebb and flow and we'll see it toughen up to how it used to be. If we're not so lucky, the game will simply participate in the greater ebb and flow, and we'll see a day when EVE is even softer, and a new hardcore space game will arrive and we'll jump ship, leaving the carebears in the sand.

As long as I get a hardcore MMO on a single-server to play, I'm really not bothered if EVE dies.

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Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

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That's odd, seems like there's a lot more *****ing and crying from people who claim to be hardcore PVP'ers (yet spend all their time chasing hulks and mission fit ships that pose no threat to them) cry and moan all day about changes that mean they might be forced to fight people who want to fight them back.

I'm ok with 'non-consensual PVP' but I'm also not going to cry if the people I fight are prepped to fight back - I'm certainly not going to be like the OP and come cry about it here.

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Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

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That's odd, seems like there's a lot more *****ing and crying from people who claim to be hardcore PVP'ers (yet spend all their time chasing hulks and mission fit ships that pose no threat to them) cry and moan all day about changes that mean they might be forced to fight people who want to fight them back.

I'm ok with 'non-consensual PVP' but I'm also not going to cry if the people I fight are prepped to fight back - I'm certainly not going to be like the OP and come cry about it here.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 05/09/2008 00:46:41

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

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That's odd, seems like there's a lot more *****ing and crying from people who claim to be hardcore PVP'ers (yet spend all their time chasing hulks and mission fit ships that pose no threat to them) cry and moan all day about changes that mean they might be forced to fight people who want to fight them back.

I'm ok with 'non-consensual PVP' but I'm also not going to cry if the people I fight are prepped to fight back - I'm certainly not going to be like the OP and come cry about it here.

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Dude - your in Faction Warfare - the very antipathy of "non conseusual pvp" on which EVE was originaly based before the New Breed of WOW Devs took over.

Your kills show you blobbing the feck out of the enemy. And flying cheap t1 fitted insured ships you don't care if you lose.

OF course you wont cry if the enemy shoots back, as you don't lose anything, but an annoying run to the respawn ground (oursulaert for a new ship)

SKUNK

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Originally by: Shagrath Neptune

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So your big rebuttal to this guy is that he blobs when he pvps and you do not blob when you are ganking that unarmed solo Hulk or hauler?

I hope you were not trying to prove that you are a real honest to God hardcore pvper or anything like that.

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Originally by: Shagrath Neptune

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 05/09/2008 00:46:41

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

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That's odd, seems like there's a lot more *****ing and crying from people who claim to be hardcore PVP'ers (yet spend all their time chasing hulks and mission fit ships that pose no threat to them) cry and moan all day about changes that mean they might be forced to fight people who want to fight them back.

I'm ok with 'non-consensual PVP' but I'm also not going to cry if the people I fight are prepped to fight back - I'm certainly not going to be like the OP and come cry about it here.

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Dude - your in Faction Warfare - the very antipathy of "non conseusual pvp" on which EVE was originaly based before the New Breed of WOW Devs took over.

Your kills show you blobbing the feck out of the enemy. And flying cheap t1 fitted insured ships you don't care if you lose.

OF course you wont cry if the enemy shoots back, as you don't lose anything, but an annoying run to the respawn ground (oursulaert for a new ship)

SKUNK

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So your big rebuttal to this guy is that he blobs when he pvps and you do not blob when you are ganking that unarmed solo Hulk or hauler?

I hope you were not trying to prove that you are a real honest to God hardcore pvper or anything like that.

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Originally by: Vikarion

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Know this: that I, and I hope others like me, will not give up. I have no intention of lying down for these changes, or going gently into that soft, fluffy good night of PvP flagging and safe zones. I will whine, *****, scream, moan, troll, and lurk. I will kill your pods, gank your ships, pop the macro haulers you buy isk from, encourage those who scam you (though I do not scam myself), war-dec you, can-flip you, haunt you through your every moment in game and on the forums.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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No my point was that if your going to act all high and mighty yelling "ya big cowards only fight stuff that don't shoot back - you need to get risk in your pvp" it helps not to be

a) engaging in no risk PVP (fully insured, t1 cruisers)
b) not fly around in massive blobs ganking lone dudes

Rather then suggesting suicide ganking needed excellent pvp skills, I was suggesting that many of the people who criticse suicide gankers, need to check their own pvp habits, and ask themselves if they consist solely of evenly matched 1v1s, and if they open them themselves up to much risk when they die anyway.

I suspect that in many of the cases, the answers are no and no.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Dave Davies

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*golf claps for Dr. Doom*

That's some mighty nice teen angst you got there.

Seriously buddy either you agree with balance decisions or you don't but is it really necessary to embarrass yourself and everybody else that way?

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Originally by: Vikarion

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You aren't really good at spotting intentional melodrama, are you?

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Originally by: Dave Davies

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I guess you'd like to cop to being "ironic" or engaging in "satire?"

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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The ones acting high and mighty are those yelling "damn carebears spoiling eve", like you. Even if all pvp was forbidden in high sec, which is far far away from the truth, the only thing that would change is that coward people like you looking for easy targets wouldn't have those targets anymore. I am crying tears of blood for you, really.

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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If you consider yourself the leet pvper you certainly do, blobs shouldn't be a problem for you, go fight against the odds. But no, all you want is to feel good by bashing noobs. You guys disgust me. Stop whining and find yourselves some spine.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Dude - your in Faction Warfare - the very antipathy of "non conseusual pvp" on which EVE was originaly based before the New Breed of WOW Devs took over.

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Originally by: Vikarion

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LOL, Skunk doesn't need to prove anything to you. His record speaks for itself.

But he has a point - the guy doesn't have to worry about tactics or whatnot in PvP - he can just blob, then return to hi-sec to replace losses in safety. Oh joy.

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 05/09/2008 01:00:13

Originally by: Shagrath Neptune

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 05/09/2008 00:46:41

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence

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That's odd, seems like there's a lot more *****ing and crying from people who claim to be hardcore PVP'ers (yet spend all their time chasing hulks and mission fit ships that pose no threat to them) cry and moan all day about changes that mean they might be forced to fight people who want to fight them back.

I'm ok with 'non-consensual PVP' but I'm also not going to cry if the people I fight are prepped to fight back - I'm certainly not going to be like the OP and come cry about it here.

---

Dude - your in Faction Warfare - the very antipathy of "non conseusual pvp" on which EVE was originaly based before the New Breed of WOW Devs took over.

Your kills show you blobbing the feck out of the enemy. And flying cheap t1 fitted insured ships you don't care if you lose.

OF course you wont cry if the enemy shoots back, as you don't lose anything, but an annoying run to the respawn ground (oursulaert for a new ship)

SKUNK

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So your big rebuttal to this guy is that he blobs when he pvps and you do not blob when you are ganking that unarmed solo Hulk or hauler?

I hope you were not trying to prove that you are a real honest to God hardcore pvper or anything like that.

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No my point was that if your going to act all high and mighty yelling "ya big cowards only fight stuff that don't shoot back - you need to get risk in your pvp" it helps not to be

a) engaging in no risk PVP (fully insured, t1 cruisers)
b) not fly around in massive blobs ganking lone dudes

Rather then suggesting suicide ganking needed excellent pvp skills, I was suggesting that many of the people who criticse suicide gankers, need to check their own pvp habits, and ask themselves if they consist solely of evenly matched 1v1s, and if they open them themselves up to much risk when they die anyway.

I suspect that in many of the cases, the answers are no and no.

SKUNK

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Originally by: Vikarion

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Originally by: Dave Davies

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I guess you'd like to cop to being "ironic" or engaging in "satire?"

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Oh no, I mean every word of what I said...I just said it in overblown, inspiring historical fashion. Because I'm cool like that. In a way you could only hope to be.

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Originally by: Vikarion

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If we are acting high and mighty, it is not because we have elevated ourselves, but because you have lowered yourselves.

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Quote:

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You really don't get it. Did you bother to look at Le Skunk's kill board? Do you bother to even consider who you are talking to before you make ad hominem attacks?

I see that your arguments are so weak that your only hope to succeed is to attack the character of those who are far more competent than yourself.

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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I get it. I know exactly with whom I am talking. Le Skunk is nothing special, and neither are you, for more that you like to think you are. You are just two cowards, too afraid to look for real pvp and who want to bash newbies because that is about the only thing you can do. Anyone who frets about these last changes can't be a serious pvper. They are completely irrelevant for those who play this game in low sec and 0.0.

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Originally by: Vikarion

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You really don't get it. Did you bother to look at Le Skunk's kill board? Do you bother to even consider who you are talking to before you make ad hominem attacks?

I see that your arguments are so weak that your only hope to succeed is to attack the character of those who are far more competent than yourself.

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Originally by: Shagrath Neptune

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This wasn't directed at me but your unconditional love for Skunk is rather disgusting. Get a room.

I don't know much about Skunk's abilities in game. I do know that he and a handful of others have done nothing but cry and whine on these boards for the past week though.

Just because a guy has a kill board and posts a lot here doesn't make him anything special. This mentality that everyone should take someone's posts as gospel just because you respect him more than you respect yourself tells me that you have a deep rooted inferiority complex.

That is a bit scary to be honest.

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Originally by: Vikarion

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Originally by: Shagrath Neptune

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This wasn't directed at me but your unconditional love for Skunk is rather disgusting. Get a room.

I don't know much about Skunk's abilities in game. I do know that he and a handful of others have done nothing but cry and whine on these boards for the past week though.

Just because a guy has a kill board and posts a lot here doesn't make him anything special. This mentality that everyone should take someone's posts as gospel just because you respect him more than you respect yourself tells me that you have a deep rooted inferiority complex.

That is a bit scary to be honest.

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I respect Skunk, and Nexa Necis, and Malcanis, and Ki An, and many others, because they actually seem to care about this game. I don't respect people who rag on them in ignorance and general idiocy. And I don't respect people who think that they are capable of performing psychological profiles over the internets.

In the end, it's a game, but I intend to fight for what I belienve is best for it, and if that means shouting down people like you, all the better. Arguing is fun. :-)

I am a forum PvPer!

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Originally by: Lord Obsidian

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Why is it not acceptable for people to say the pirates need to change the way they play, but acceptable for pirates to demand everyone change the way they play eve, and infact demand all of eve is changed to suit their very narrow, non sustaining view of how the game should be? If CCP did what you want and made the game the way you want it, about 80% (a number often quoted as people who dont leave empire) would leave the game. Do you really think CCP could sustain eve then? Or would it go like Vanguard and close\down grade everything.

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Originally by: Galan Amarias

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Just for the reccord, I've been ratting my sec up just for this patch. I have always been an advocate of Suicide Ganking, now I plan to proove that it's still viabal and probably more profitable than ever. An untanked hauler dosen't need much killing and they should feel even safer with their afk loot now that ganking has been "nerfed."

Ultimately suicide ganking relies on another player to be stupid. Stupidity can't be nerfed by CCP lord knows they've tried with all the warnings and tutorials and what not. Fear not friends, Jita may stop being the kill capitol of EVE, but idiots will still fund suicide ganking for us.

-Galan

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