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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:36:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: Malcanis
*sigh*. For the thousandth time: because they're different zones on the same pitch with the same game being played. Is that truly so hard to understand? Are you really unaware of the fact that what happens in hi-sec has significant effects on lo-sec and 0.0?
Yes of course we are aware of it, and as stated, your working from the opinion that the 0.0 players mean everything. I suspect that subscription numbers mean otherwise to CCP
Sorry about that
Yeah, because a half of the high-sec population are alts to begin with. I know very few pirates who don't have a trading&hauling alt which sits in Jita/Dodixie/Ours. I know a LOT of PvP-ers who use L4 farming alts to fund them.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:38:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Scrutt5 My understanding is that high sec ganking will still be an option, its just gonna take you longer to work back that sec.
And when insurance is removed, it's going to make rich old players in freighters and faction ravens effectively immune.
Only new players in weak ships that can be ganked by disposable trial alts will be suicide ganked.
Yes and by doing that you will get yourself banned, nice huh ;)
They can ban as many trial accounts as they like. That's the whole point - if they do, you just create another one. Recycling alts on an account is forbidden, but there are no such limitations on recycling whole accounts. And you can skill up a half-decent suicide destroyer pilot (arty thrashers are best, I'm told) in a few days. That gives you 3 alts per trial who can do 3 or 4 ganks each. And there's no limit to the number of trial accounts you can manage, as long as you don't actually log in to more than one at once on any one PC.
Nice, so you have actually revealed the real reason for your post, the desire to shoot the helpless
probably because targets that can "shock horror" defend themselves are just "too difficult" huh
Do you often have trouble reading?
Get this: I have never suicide ganked on this or any other account, ever.
The point I'm making is that these changes DONT protect the new players, they will make it so that ONLY new players will be ganked because they will be the only viable targets.
The suicide nerf came about due to a campaign by OLDER RICHER players, who are well able to defend themselves if they so chose, but simply don't want to bother or lose the profit it would take to do so. They claimed - of course - that it was to "protect the new players from being griefed". Which is the EvE equivalent of "wont somebody PLEASE think of the children" - when you hear it you know for sure that they're advancing their own agenda by pushing an emotive button.
When the established industrial corps and alliances can simply AFK their freighters and multiple hulk accounts, and use their max-skilled industry alts, there will be no way for new players to compete. Before they could at least have the advantage of actively piloting their badger I and so run less chance of being ganked. Now the old, rich carebears in their tanked T2 transports and freighters and deadspace-fit hulks have no more worries and better margins - all the risk has been pushed onto new, naive players. |
Tatsujin Koufu
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
You can pvp in low and null sec and I can pve in high sec...whats the problem?
(a) Anyone using the ISK they make in high-sec to fund their PvP (which is a LOT of people) is the problem.
(b) Anyone selling modules obtained through PvE and competing with people trying to do business in low-sec/0.0 while being completely immune is the problem.
(c) Anyone buying modules and ships by ISK obtained through PvE and competing with low-sec/0.0 people for the same items while being completely immune printing ISK in high-sec is the problem.
The problem is, basically, that EvE isn't two separate games.
If you want a typical 'safe zone' which other MMOs have, then let's remove everything except L1/L2 (debatable) missions from high-sec, every ore except Veldspar (meaning, ice, etc, too), remove high-sec POSes, and cut the number of research&production slots in half. Then you can have a nice starter zone with no PvP at all. Fair enough?
Not really
Some people enjoy industry and PvE and dont like to interact with the hubub of the game, or are they not allowed in your "new eden"? |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:41:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
You can pvp in low and null sec and I can pve in high sec...whats the problem?
(a) Anyone using the ISK they make in high-sec to fund their PvP (which is a LOT of people) is the problem.
(b) Anyone selling modules obtained through PvE and competing with people trying to do business in low-sec/0.0 while being completely immune is the problem.
(c) Anyone buying modules and ships by ISK obtained through PvE and competing with low-sec/0.0 people for the same items while being completely immune printing ISK in high-sec is the problem.
The problem is, basically, that EvE isn't two separate games.
If you want a typical 'safe zone' which other MMOs have, then let's remove everything except L1/L2 (debatable) missions from high-sec, every ore except Veldspar (meaning, ice, etc, too), remove high-sec POSes, and cut the number of research&production slots in half. Then you can have a nice starter zone with no PvP at all. Fair enough?
Not really
Some people enjoy industry and PvE and dont like to interact with the hubub of the game, or are they not allowed in your "new eden"?
They are, but they're supposed to run the same risks as everyone else, not AFK soloplay their way to unlimited wealth. |
Kin Dahl
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:43:00 -
[35]
I dont mind that people want to live in high sec, but the hand holding by CCP for empire dwellers is becoming overbearing and unneccesary. In my first corp we had an industrialist that always afk hauled. One day while he was afk hauling 800 million in assets, a lonely Drake was waiting by a gate. He scanned him down and blew him away and took his haul. Who is the smarter player here, the INCENTIVE was there for the Drake pilot. Yet the afk pilots are getting a buff for not playing smart. Is suicide ganking out of control, maybe, but maybe its out of control is because the afk haulers want to play Eve on easy mode. I dont know, really, we all have opinions and each of us count, im really worried were this game is headed.
As for Eve is dying, weve been dying since the day we were born, so meh. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu Some people enjoy industry and PvE and dont like to interact with the hubub of the game, or are they not allowed in your "new eden"?
Those who only enjoy PvE are not the only people doing PvE.
More importantly how do you avoid interacting with the rest of the game? Buy or sell any item and you have effected in-game prices, not just for you but for everybody. |
Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar Mindfunk
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:47:00 -
[37]
Hm.
Wardecs still possible...check.
Suicide ganking still possible...check.
Scamming still possible...check.
Whats the OP on about again?
Anyway, you will not get the carebears into lowsec or just pvp. You can force them but in the end that's rather gonna force them out of the game. I wish this would actually happen sometime so you'd suddenly be sitting in empty space with no one to fight at all. Well, except those who actually want to pvp but it just seems Eve's pvpers don't want that. Now i'm confused. |
Gnub Primus
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:48:00 -
[38]
Dude, it's a game. Lighten up or go back to WoW since you seem to know so much about it.
Hi Sec and the vast majority of players who play there, keep the lights on and the doors open at CCP due to the volume of cash flow/revenue those players represent to CCP.
The "incentive" for you is that EvE will be online for you to play for a long, long time. The "incentive" for you is that 0.0 will always be there for you to play in however you like. The "incentive" for you is that you should take your own advice and be "ready to learn" and "adapt".
Gnub, the PR Alt.
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Kin Dahl
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:55:00 -
[39]
Suicide ganking is getting nerfed as we speak, to be honest, I have never suicide ganked anyone. Ive sat at a gate in my Kestral scanning afk haulers and lol. CCP told us they were going to look at suicide ganking, and know the nerf is under way.
CCP has also told the community that the wardec system, " a pay to grief" has to be looked at. Should Hi Sec Dwellers be this protected, honestly. Ask yourself how safe should high sec really be?
I just dont want to see this game get soft. |
YoYo LaBelle
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Posted - 2008.09.02 12:56:00 -
[40]
OK, I'm admittedly only a 6-month old newb, but I've never understood why some people have such a hardon for killing noobs and/or carebears in highsec. I think CCP has done an admirable job of trying to create diverse yet co-existing styles of game within the same universe. I'm asking as a serious question here, but why are people so hellbent on making everyone have as much "fun" as they're having by blowing up defenseless transports and noobs? CCP has no intention of preventing suicide ganking, but they wanted to make it an activity that carries some risk for the attacker. |
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Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar Mindfunk
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: YoYo LaBelle OK, I'm admittedly only a 6-month old newb, but I've never understood why some people have such a hardon for killing noobs and/or carebears in highsec. I think CCP has done an admirable job of trying to create diverse yet co-existing styles of game within the same universe. I'm asking as a serious question here, but why are people so hellbent on making everyone have as much "fun" as they're having by blowing up defenseless transports and noobs? CCP has no intention of preventing suicide ganking, but they wanted to make it an activity that carries some risk for the attacker.
I'm wondering the same.
But that's the wonderful world of the internet where you can hurt people without really having to deal with any consequences whatsoever. I guess thats all about it already. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kin Dahl
Great, I thought just great, I have the tools and the knowledge to protect myself. So why does CCp keep nerfing high sec PVP. Was Jihad Swarm the cause, is it the $$$. A great book to read about human nature is Freakanomics, its all about what motivates people and incentives.
EVE is a sandbox. Come up with your own incentives.
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Gnub Primus
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:12:00 -
[43]
Different folks like to play in different ways, so it matters to players and their game experience how "safe" Hi Sec is or, for that matter, how dangerous 0.0 can be.
I play with various toons that have their skills chosen to survive and thrive in their respective areas of EvE (Hi Sec, Low Sec and No Sec).
I get a different game experience in all three areas, and that's fun.
Hi Sec is fun for a majority of players -- so making it safe means keeping the majority of subscribers happy so they can have fun. Nuf said.
Gnub, the PR Alt.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu Some people enjoy industry and PvE and dont like to interact with the hubub of the game, or are they not allowed in your "new eden"?
I'm having a hard time picturing industry as anything but a PvP venture. How (and why) on earth would you set up an entire production chain if you're not going to interact or compete with the rest of the game? How many civilian afterburners does a solo player need (if you go for just about anything more advanced, guess what: you are interacting with the rest of the game). |
Kin Dahl
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Gnub Primus
Hi Sec is fun for a majority of players -- so making it safe means keeping the majority of subscribers happy so they can have fun. Nuf said.
Gnub, the PR Alt.
Hi Sec players can still have fun and be happy, but when pirates and gankers come to uptown, be smart and dont afk haul. Fit a warp stab, some shields.
ok time for a RL comparrison, are Banks and secured transport made out paper. No....
Ok, I know time to to step away fromt he PC and go to bed.
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Commander Koen
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:21:00 -
[46]
making highsec safer means less ganking, means less sales for the manufacturers, meaning less minerals will be bought, meaning more minerals in market and prices will drop more, meaning more people will go towards missioning. which will finally gets it balance again. |
knobber Jobbler
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Malcanis
That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. It can't be done. You can't play football when half of the players want to have you arrested if you tackle them.
No, its not like that. Think of it like this, its like a worn torn country where in safe zones the government can act and protect its citizens, unless bribed. Outside of those safe zones people can control the land, the government has no control. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zen Guerrilla Hm.
Wardecs still possible...check.
Suicide ganking still possible...check.
Scamming still possible...check.
Whats the OP on about again?
Anyway, you will not get the carebears into lowsec or just pvp. You can force them but in the end that's rather gonna force them out of the game. I wish this would actually happen sometime so you'd suddenly be sitting in empty space with no one to fight at all. Well, except those who actually want to pvp but it just seems Eve's pvpers don't want that. Now i'm confused.
Probably because you're an ISK seller. After all this change will buff macroing; macros are used by ISK sellers; you support this change, therefore you're obviously an ISK seller.
Or perhaps just an ISK buyer who wants lower prices.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:27:00 -
[49]
Don't worry, when economy is broken enought it will be 'fixed' in some stupid way... like nerfing hisec missions. I'm fine tho as I don't live there :)
---
Alts, the root of all the problems. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Malcanis
That's like asking a football team to accommodate players who only like non-contact sport. It can't be done. You can't play football when half of the players want to have you arrested if you tackle them.
No, its not like that. Think of it like this, its like a worn torn country where in safe zones the government can act and protect its citizens, unless bribed. Outside of those safe zones people can control the land, the government has no control.
You're not a citizen though. You're a pod pilot with no mandatory faction affiliation. When I see people in hi-sec paying 25% of their income to pay for all this protection they're getting, I might buy that argument.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Malcanis
They are, but they're supposed to run the same risks as everyone else, not AFK soloplay their way to unlimited wealth.
Counter Strike is that way --->
Perfect example of a game where "everyone runs the same risks as everyone else"
Is it that hard to comprehend that CCP desires High Sec to actually be safer? That you can't Pew Pew everyone, all the time? AFK haulers are no different than a semi truck going down the road in our society today, they DO get ganked, just not very often in the more civilized aspects of out world. (I know, real life comparisons suck).
Like the Privateers last year, everyone bellied up to the trough one too many times and this is the result. -------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:35:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Is it that hard to comprehend that CCP desires High Sec to actually be safer?
No, actually, I have comprehended it all too well.
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
(I know, real life comparisons suck).
Then don't make them.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Is it that hard to comprehend that CCP desires High Sec to actually be safer?
No, actually, I have comprehended it all too well.
Then quit whining. Counter strike is still waiting if you want 100% pew pew. -------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:44:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Is it that hard to comprehend that CCP desires High Sec to actually be safer?
No, actually, I have comprehended it all too well.
Then quit whining. Counter strike is still waiting if you want 100% pew pew.
That's hilarious considering that you and others like you have whined incessently for this change rather than just, oh I don't know, piloting your ships.
Why do you think some players should get invincible NPC buddies and others shouldn't?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lasus
Tarheel Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:44:00 -
[55]
Every game changes. I have been playing online games since they started. They all change over time. I have seen some games change for the worse and a few change for the better. Will eve be better or worse after this patch ?? Well I dont know. However I look at this as a chance to adapt to a new system and learn from it. A lot of people here are crying over this, but people AWAYS gripe after every patch in this game and others.
EVE has given us another challenge and those that are crying the loudest are those that say they want a challenge. Well you have one now so quit complaining and play the game. EVE is still a harsh world.
Adapt.
Pain n An unpleasant feeling or sensation usually caused by the good fortune of another |
KeLLaX
HUNLAR the Almighty Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.09.02 13:48:00 -
[56]
Kin Dahl, I agree on everything you said... CCP is turning this game into a much more simple MMO, like WOW. Next thing, they will probably disable looting of destroyed ship except of its owner. May be they are trying to lower the difficulties of the game in order to attract a younger crowd, but best part of this game is that you don't have crying 6-year olds and its more of a mature game. Possibilities are infinite for a grown up mind. It's the imagination within this game that is being nerfed...
I remember when my char was too new, flying rifters around, a big alliance wardecced my corp of around 10 active players. So I was corp hopping and getting them concorded. It was my way of defending myself against people in recons and hacs. But people (the ones who get concorded) are too proud to accept that they are just careless and call it an exploit.
And about the suicide ganks, people have to learn that there is no safe place for a 2-3b worth ship, and there shouldn't be any...
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Togg Bott
Minmatar 801
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:00:00 -
[57]
maybe...implement a bribe system to allow Gankers to Bribe Concord into NOT arriving so quickly...
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Veritech knight
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
(a) Anyone using the ISK they make in high-sec to fund their PvP (which is a LOT of people) is the problem.
so you live solely in 0.0 (no alt in empire?) by choice, like everything pirating but want others to "play fair" by not making isk however they want? how about a cap on isk you can make a day? :)
vk
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Dionisius
Gallente Vagabundos
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Zen Guerrilla Hm.
Wardecs still possible...check.
Suicide ganking still possible...check.
Scamming still possible...check.
Whats the OP on about again?
Anyway, you will not get the carebears into lowsec or just pvp. You can force them but in the end that's rather gonna force them out of the game. I wish this would actually happen sometime so you'd suddenly be sitting in empty space with no one to fight at all. Well, except those who actually want to pvp but it just seems Eve's pvpers don't want that. Now i'm confused.
Probably because you're an ISK seller. After all this change will buff macroing; macros are used by ISK sellers; you support this change, therefore you're obviously an ISK seller.
Or perhaps just an ISK buyer who wants lower prices.
Dude can i have what you're smoking? _____________________________________
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Thea Arsoniztik
Red Tides
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Posted - 2008.09.02 14:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kin Dahl heck even corp hop when you get wardecced.
Pansy.
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