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Shafty
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Posted - 2008.08.21 07:27:00 -
[31]
Fit it like it used to be fitted before nanos were popular, active tank and 220s. Getting your supportive skills up is the key to not losing ships like sleips, when all your comp skills are up you naturally have a better tank.
Seems people think that now nanos are being nerfed all the ships that were good before speed was king will suddenly be shit. Sleipnir was CS of choice then (slightly ahead of Astarte) so no reason itll suddenly become crap.
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente EXCESS10N
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Posted - 2008.08.21 08:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: fivetide humidyear on 21/08/2008 08:28:54 7x 220mm vulcan II (barrage loaded. hail, rf emp, rf phased plasma carried) 1x medium neut II
Dread Guristas X-Large shield booster Invulnerability field II warp disruptor II 10MN MWD II Medium electrochemical (800's)
Lows 3x gyrostabilizer II damage control II local inertial stabilizer
Rigs kinetic and thermal resist rigs
drones 3x hammerhead II + 2x hobgoblin II 3x EC-600 + 2x EC-300
yes it's damage only betters a hurricane at CS5 but it has quite a nice tank as well, especially so if you add a few implants.
a ganglink can be fitted by changing to a IFFA damage controland a named warp disruptor iirc.
a heavy missile launcher can be added just by changing to an IFFA damage control
edit: an x-large shield booster II will fit by replacing the istab with a co-processor II
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.08.21 10:06:00 -
[33]
Just be grateful that you have the PG to fit a gang mod on a Sleipnir. Just try fitting a Nighthawk to be useful in PVP... |
ArmyOfMe
Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 11:20:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shafty
Seems people think that now nanos are being nerfed all the ships that were good before speed was king will suddenly be shit. Sleipnir was CS of choice then (slightly ahead of Astarte) so no reason itll suddenly become crap.
Finally someone who gets it
ships that worked before nanos were king will still work when nanos get nerfed.
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Lt Angus
Caldari Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.21 11:34:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lt Angus on 21/08/2008 11:34:44
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Shafty
Seems people think that now nanos are being nerfed all the ships that were good before speed was king will suddenly be shit. Sleipnir was CS of choice then (slightly ahead of Astarte) so no reason itll suddenly become crap.
Finally someone who gets it
ships that worked before nanos were king will still work when nanos get nerfed.
it did 30% more dmg "pre nanos" and ships had less hp |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: AstroPhobic How much of a noob I am?
Do you realize the state of the force command ships? They're cool painted T2 BCs with slightly better tanks. The only one that was worth a damn as a general combat ship was sleipnir, and that was only because it can be nanod.
If you have a couple of t2 BPOs cranking out daily, or sell GTCs, go for it. Most of us don't play like that and actually have to consider ship efficiency, where command ships fail dearly. Why, especially post-nerf, should I take a sleipnir out instead of a typhoon? A gang link? That's for claymores. All it takes is a clue and a little bit of DPS and your ship pops like a fat kid stomping on a balloon.
It's like suggesting that you should fly a navy thron over a thron because it offers xyz slightly better benefit. That's great. The navy thron will outpreform the thron in every situation.
thats all well and good, but because you cant afford to loose a ship does not make it a bad ship.
it just makes it a bad choice for you.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/08/2008 12:21:55
Originally by: NeoTheo
thats all well and good, but because you cant afford to loose a ship does not make it a bad ship.
The fact it's extremely hard pressed to be profitable (read: get more ISK in ransoms/loot before it dies) along with cheaper alternatives which outdo them in nearly all areas (battleships) does, in combination, make it a bad ship.
I mean, I can afford a ton of those bastards, but I earn my ISK by pirating (which means my ships eventually pop: and my earnings depend on it costing as little as possible while getting the maximum 'bang' possible), so pirating in command ships leads to ruin in the long run.
If I did carebearing/GTCs for ISK, then efficiency wouldn't be a concern, but I don't.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.08.21 12:30:00 -
[38]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 21/08/2008 12:30:35
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/08/2008 12:21:55
Originally by: NeoTheo
thats all well and good, but because you cant afford to loose a ship does not make it a bad ship.
The fact it's extremely hard pressed to be profitable (read: get more ISK in ransoms/loot before it dies) along with cheaper alternatives which outdo them in nearly all areas (battleships) does, in combination, make it a bad ship.
I mean, I can afford a ton of those bastards, but I earn my ISK by pirating (which means my ships eventually pop: and my earnings depend on it costing as little as possible while getting the maximum 'bang' possible), so pirating in command ships leads to ruin in the long run.
If I did carebearing/GTCs for ISK, then efficiency wouldn't be a concern, but I don't.
i know that mate, and i did say that (or at least i ment it), i know about "sensible choices", thats why i fly a brutix sometimes over my demo, or a ferox over a eagle, etc.
i just mean the "hull is not technically flawed", like some hulls its just challenged from a isk point of view, and i have a GOOD industrial op backing me.. I stand by my point, but see yours as well.
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MattFighT
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:31:00 -
[39]
i've been flying a sleipnir for nearly 2 years now, i have always been a pirate, and i have only been flying a sleipnir. Before the nano age my sleipnir was tanked and ganked fitted but my skills were not so good, now i've trained every single skills affecting the sleipnir and even during the nano age i sometimes fitted it tank and gank. I use this fit generally in a small gang
7 425mm Auto 1 Shield Harmonizing - siege warfare link
1 dread guristas Large shield booster 1 shield boost amp II 2 invul II 1 electrochemical med cap booster
3 gyro II 1 DCU II 1 PDU II/Inertia stab II
anti-kinetic rig Core defence operational solidifier
I got a low grade crystal set Med projectile damage implant
I tank a BS under sentry when overloading the invuls My dps can break most Bs tanks And i never roam alone always with a Heavy hictor at least.
I help the gang, tank great, gank great, i align faster than any bs, and that is great when gate camping.
I could use the minmatar Bs's but it's not that of a difference. |
Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:37:00 -
[40]
buy a cane |
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Shafty
The All-Seeing Eye G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.21 20:13:00 -
[41]
Buy a cane if you are cheap. However there is no substitute for looking good
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atomic killer
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Posted - 2008.08.21 20:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MattFighT i've been flying a sleipnir for nearly 2 years now, i have always been a pirate, and i have only been flying a sleipnir. Before the nano age my sleipnir was tanked and ganked fitted but my skills were not so good, now i've trained every single skills affecting the sleipnir and even during the nano age i sometimes fitted it tank and gank. I use this fit generally in a small gang
7 425mm Auto 1 Shield Harmonizing - siege warfare link
1 dread guristas Large shield booster 1 shield boost amp II 2 invul II 1 electrochemical med cap booster
3 gyro II 1 DCU II 1 PDU II/Inertia stab II
anti-kinetic rig Core defence operational solidifier
I got a low grade crystal set Med projectile damage implant
I tank a BS under sentry when overloading the invuls My dps can break most Bs tanks And i never roam alone always with a Heavy hictor at least.
I help the gang, tank great, gank great, i align faster than any bs, and that is great when gate camping.
I could use the minmatar Bs's but it's not that of a difference.
Large shield booster is a failure ! You cannot tank anything with it ! Also setups for gang and solo are a bit different
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:31:00 -
[43]
People who say fly a cane, i hope say that because of the price difference - a sleipnir outperforms a cane massively.
To the guy who said CS lvl5 is needed to make it outdamage a cane: shield tanking means you can put damage mods on the lows without negatively effecting your ability to tank. Ok, damage wise you will push the same raw number with hail in - but in real life you can take a bigger beating in a sleip and perform at better ranges.
I'm personally wanting the sleip to get some bonus CPU. That wouldn't be out of order imo. Given that it would definately re-affirm itself at the top of the CS pile. -------
[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lorz0r Sorry you don't go faster. Oh wow you have a skirmish Mindlink, I'll just drop the DCU for a CPU2 and fit one as well.
A Skirmish Mindlink is not a module. It is a slot 10 implant that adds a 1.5x multiplier to all Skirmish Warfare boosts, active and passive, on top of all other modifiers. It requires Cybernetics V, Skirmish Warfare Specialist V and Warfare Link Specialist V. As long as I'm the fleet booster, I can leave the speed mods off the ship, and still go as fast as unboosted opponents.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:40:00 -
[45]
Originally by: MattFighT
7 425mm Auto 1 Shield Harmonizing - siege warfare link
1 dread guristas Large shield booster 1 shield boost amp II 2 invul II 1 electrochemical med cap booster
3 gyro II 1 DCU II 1 PDU II/Inertia stab II
anti-kinetic rig Core defence operational solidifier
I got a low grade crystal set
Now that's a terrific booster fit. Nice one.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Maeltstome People who say fly a cane, i hope say that because of the price difference - a sleipnir outperforms a cane massively.
Largely, yes.
However: the Sleipnir is NOT a solo ship, the Hurricane is. You simply cannot fit MWD+point+web and any worthwhile tank. You say it yourself that tanking with mids means you get to fit damage mods in lows - it's the old discussion about shield tanks vs armour tanks. Armour tanks sacrifice tank/buffer to gank, shield tanks get to fit both tank and gank, at expense of tackle.
Furthermore, yes, it requires CS V to outdamage a Hurricane. I don't know about you, but 2-3 falloff rigs on a Hurricane are standard fitting, so the range comment is 100% moot.
People advocating buffer fits (like a poster before me was) on a Sleipnir should really buy a Hurricane. Buffer tanking a Sleipnir with MWD+point is crap if you're not nanoing it, and nano Sleipnirs are going to be significantly worse post patch.
What CS in general need is some loving. Seriously, not getting any extra slots over a Tier 2 BC is the suck.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kira Novia
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: BiggestT The ppl who fly cs's in pvp are either noobs with too much isk...
Deimos (HAC) is 2x as power as a Thorax. Astarte is more powerful than a Brutix and has a MUCH better tank. Simply put, HAC's and Command Ships are awesome to PvP with. Just because WE use them for that purpose, we're noobs? Die.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.21 23:31:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Drek Grapper on 21/08/2008 23:35:40 Permatank X-Large Sliep (4 and half mintes with MWD on), tanks 686Dps and deals EFT damage of 637Dps with Barrage ammo and damage drones.
Linkage
Gang fit of course so no tackle but boy...permatank X-Large booster on a Sliep!
Overloaded
Tanks 864Dps overloaded for 6mins cap (without MWD) and Overheated Booster lasts just over 4mins (according to EFT).
Not tested yet..but seems pretty mean.
Edit: 3% Grid/TurretCPU/ implant and 3% med Turret and 5% all damage implants fitted.
--------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.22 01:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Drek Grapper Edited by: Drek Grapper on 21/08/2008 23:35:40 Permatank X-Large Sliep (4 and half mintes with MWD on), tanks 686Dps and deals EFT damage of 637Dps with Barrage ammo and damage drones.
Thats not a perma tank, you're using cap boosters
here is my perma tanking setup (I use it for missions) tanks almost the same dps as you no cap boosters and no need to use implants, the whole setup cost me about 230 million.
for pvp I'd fly something cheaper like a hurricane. Though I am tempted to use a 720 mmm sleip like this in a sniping hac gang I think it would do well backed up by some muninns, will need some tweakings as it will need a mwd then.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.22 02:57:00 -
[50]
No MWD it doesn't count...
--------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.08.22 06:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: AstroPhobic How much of a noob I am?
Do you realize the state of the force command ships? They're cool painted T2 BCs with slightly better tanks. The only one that was worth a damn as a general combat ship was sleipnir, and that was only because it can be nanod.
If you have a couple of t2 BPOs cranking out daily, or sell GTCs, go for it. Most of us don't play like that and actually have to consider ship efficiency, where command ships fail dearly. Why, especially post-nerf, should I take a sleipnir out instead of a typhoon? A gang link? That's for claymores. All it takes is a clue and a little bit of DPS and your ship pops like a fat kid stomping on a balloon.
It's like suggesting that you should fly a navy thron over a thron because it offers xyz slightly better benefit. That's great. The navy thron will outpreform the thron in every situation.
I at least know there is no such thing as a "force" command ship, there is field and fleet. I never said it was the best price/performance ship, that is T1 ships, by FAR. Everyone knows T1 is the fly for free class and T2 is the harsh death penalty class. Fact is that a 5 man Sleipnir gang will own a 5 man hurricane gang before they know wtf is going on. "slightly" better tank? What? You mean 2-3x better than an active hurricane? or 50% better than a passive cane with much better range, etc etc?
When playing EVE, you can gank noobs in low sec and use any ship since it really doesnt matter. If you are outnumbered or as such often happens you need to squeeze out every bit of performance out of each local member that you can.
Command ships could use a boost, I wouldn't mind that, 120M isn't exactly OMG money, but a CPU boost or a 6th mid on the sleip would be nice. More cpu/grid/cap to fit and use gang links I would love to see. Of course boost the other CS in similar fashions.
CSs and especially the sleip are not rofl broken like say the AFs or BOs
Classic sleip fit that I think does fine in a smallish gang:
7x 220mm II, 1x arbie HML mwd, X-L II, med injector, 2x invuln II IFF DCU, Co proc II, 3x gyro II Shield rigs: safeguards or resist or whatever hell even ambits
Tanking 1000 DPS for almost minute while spewing 650-700 DPS isn't what I would call omg broken. For a lot of situations I would suggest the Hurricane instead, but if you have the cash and stay away from neut domis, then for god's sake fly it, it is extremely fun. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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50freefly
Caldari Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.08.22 09:04:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Furthermore, yes, it requires CS V to outdamage a Hurricane.
Uh, wrong? Notice how Sleipnir has 7 guns and a bigger drone bay. Then tell me it does less damage until CS 5.
Sleip is better in every way than the cane. Hell, you can passive armor tank it and it still beats the shit out of a cane, at everything.
However, field commands need a boost. There's currently no reason to use one over a BS (Except the sleip because the tempy is so shit). I believe this is coming in the form of a web nerf. CS will be able to track things bs no longer can, and the sleip is actually getting boosted because the lack of slots for a web is no longer such a big deal.
But making statements that are untrue with no evidence is just moronic.
-----------------------------------------------
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.23 00:25:00 -
[53]
My sliepnir does the same DPS as my hurricane at command ships 3. Thats both with 3 gyro's, a rack of 220mm auto's using RP EMP and 2 Arby HAMS on the cane with damage drones.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.23 01:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: 50freefly
Originally by: Cpt Branko Furthermore, yes, it requires CS V to outdamage a Hurricane.
Uh, wrong? Notice how Sleipnir has 7 guns and a bigger drone bay. Then tell me it does less damage until CS 5.
Also, Sleipnir this and that.
*Yawn*
2x 25% damage bonuses is what? 1x 25% damage bonus, and one 25% reduction in ROF is what? 25% ROF is 33% DPS.
But, yeah, just checked it out, I was wrong. It already outdamages the Hurricane by a slight bit at CS IV (with ECMs, what I was originally using), or CS III (damage drones, thermal). The differences are very small (everything is assuming 5% damage + 3% rof - if you can't pay for 20M of hardwirings you shouldn't be flying a CS anyway).
And, no, it does not 'beat the shit out of the Hurricane at everything'. Geez.
You're fitting MWD/point/web (and ECCM on my hurricanes in general) on a Sleipnir how?
They're different ships. One of them is a highly cost-effective solo-capable gank ship, the second one is a overpriced gang-only ship with a highly cap hungry active tank (and no, it's no better then the Hurricane in a passive armour tank config, unless you're only fighting Amarr ships ).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.23 04:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kira Novia
Originally by: BiggestT The ppl who fly cs's in pvp are either noobs with too much isk...
Deimos (HAC) is 2x as power as a Thorax. Astarte is more powerful than a Brutix and has a MUCH better tank. Simply put, HAC's and Command Ships are awesome to PvP with. Just because WE use them for that purpose, we're noobs? Die.
Hes right. Command ships cost MUCH more than a battleship (concidered insurance and initial costs etc) and....a battleship can do it better in 99% of the cases. ***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
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Mythrell
Omega Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.23 07:09:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Mythrell on 23/08/2008 07:11:07 When you go and compare CS to a BS, you have to remember that it has one big advantage, ability to move fast. I know we all love our passive HP buffed abaddons which turn like a brick and has about the same acceleration. CS's are nimble in comparision and thus make a lot better small roaming gang ship.
On topic:
[Sleipnir, Slegabond] Gyrostabilizer II Inertia Stabilizers II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
That is the pre-nerf fitting, after that you might want to reconsider polycarbs and fit a scrambler. It's not going to permatank fleet of 50, but it relies on the speed and as secondary at its tank. I've seen this setup in use many times and as long as you stay smart with it, it's good. Oh and no, it's not a solo ship.
The dreaded nano nerf brings too much to the table to make any setups yet for the "nano" due to web nerf (which is a bonus) and the scrambler boost (which is a minus). I'd see where CCP finally settles with all that before going in there.
For the completely out of topic discussion, no, I wounldn't cry a river if they switched field command ships to tier 2 variations after they'd fix passive shield tanks first. Tier 1 for tanking ships and Tier 2 for damage ships would make perfect sense.
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FamersUsedTo BeatUs
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Posted - 2008.08.25 01:10:00 -
[57]
Can anyone provide a fleet sleipnir setup with an active tank. I know fitting active tank in a fleet fight is asking for it, with lagg and module delay, but I would like to know if it is possible to fit 720s or 650s, XL shield booster, cap injector and be able to get away with it, without having to fit powergrid rigs.... Seeing as autocannons wont cut it in most fleet situations and I am sure you can squeeze out 40km range easy with sleipnir and tremor, but I want to try out a sleip under fleet support pvp, so is anyone flies it in fleet, I would appreciate a reply. (terrible grammar included at no extra charge)
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