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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.21 17:50:00 -
[151]
Originally by: GM Guard The titan pilot had an alt on another account. That alt received 45 billion ISK - DIRECTLY - from many assorted ISK selling accounts. I am referring to those cut up streams of ISK donations, each totaling a few hundred million, with explanations that make very little sense. "Thx for your protection"..."Boy your ship"(sic)...etc.
Thanks for clarifying. And lol at the titan pilot |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:06:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Toolbert
hurrrrrr clearly because I dont agree with one thing I think this game is horrible
I wish you'd just exercise your right to remain silent. |
Sinful 1
Caldari Hot Fuzz.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:31:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Sinful 1 on 21/08/2008 18:33:02 This toon was autioned btw
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Toolbert
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:48:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Toolbert
hurrrrrr clearly because I dont agree with one thing I think this game is horrible
I wish you'd just exercise your right to remain silent.
I'll keep that in mind if CCP ever decides to release your personal information if they ever deem it convenient.
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Stevens
SPECTRE Ops Utterly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.08.21 18:52:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Darriele
Originally by: AJ Scout
Before spewing legal shit you should read the legal document you agreed to signing up for an eve account. You have NO RIGHTS to anything in the game including all characters, isk, objects and otherwise. CCP will refund any pre-paid subscription after 30 days. So if you just paid for 3 months, you will get 2 months returned.
The fact of even trying to do anything legal over a game is laughable, little lone when you have signed an EULA.
You are a little bit too out. You didn't payed attention to what i was mumbo-jumbo-ing around. Read again.
Here's a little hint for you. You can go in legal courts too if you really wish no one will stop you.
"# GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland. "
EULAs will never hold up as a binding contract in court so you might as well just continue blindly clicking yes.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:06:00 -
[156]
If Chewbacca is a Wookie...it just don't make sense.
IT DON'T MAKE SENSE! IT DON'T MAKE SENSE!
Defense rests
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:14:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Toolbert ...if CCP ever decides to release your personal information if they ever deem it convenient.
That's totally analogous to what has happened in Guard's post and not a hysterical slippery-slope fallacy at all.
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:32:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Zetjur Jilnou on 21/08/2008 19:31:49
Originally by: Toolbert I'll keep that in mind if CCP ever decides to release your personal information if they ever deem it convenient.
If he didn't want disclosure on it, perhaps he shouldn't have tried making up fairy tales on the forums. CCP has demonstrated time and time again that people that try claiming they 'got isk from a friend' or 'their friend is quitting eve because the gm's took isk from selling something on the market', will get this stuff posted in their forum thread. This is like the 5th or 6th time they've done it at least, and tbh, good on them.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:41:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Toolbert I'll keep that in mind if CCP ever decides to release your personal information if they ever deem it convenient.
Dude, please nerdrage when it's valid instead.
Black Hand.
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Toolbert
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:47:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Toolbert I'll keep that in mind if CCP ever decides to release your personal information if they ever deem it convenient.
Dude, please nerdrage when it's valid instead.
Okay whatever, CCP making themselves look like hypocrits doesn't effect my enjoyment of the game anyways. I figured they would have just learned their lesson after the last few times they have done things like this and it exploded in their face causing a huge amount of drama.
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R0ot
Got R0ot
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:48:00 -
[161]
Originally by: GM Guard The explanations we got instead were insubstantial and not consistent with our logs.
I'm not saying the isk was legit or that it wasn't legit, but come on now I think we have all heard the above line before, "our logs show nothing". I would love some day to see a page listing all banned accounts in relation to isk selling that is updated when each isk seller account is banned and maybe the amount of isk it had on its account at the time.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.21 19:52:00 -
[162]
Originally by: R0ot
Originally by: GM Guard The explanations we got instead were insubstantial and not consistent with our logs.
I'm not saying the isk was legit or that it wasn't legit, but come on now I think we have all heard the above line before, "our logs show nothing". I would love some day to see a page listing all banned accounts in relation to isk selling that is updated when each isk seller account is banned and maybe the amount of isk it had on its account at the time.
Perhaps the paper trail was a bit easier to trace with so many transfers going from so many alt-accounts to one single account?
Black Hand.
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved
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Posted - 2008.08.21 20:51:00 -
[163]
So you ban a pilot who most likely had no clue that the ISK came from a 'hacked accounts'. Yet the people doing the hacking most likely already have new accounts and are back to farming, hacking, etc... Then you ask him for proof that this came from rent??? How is he suppose to provide that evidence, a receipt?
I guess that fixed the problem.
Post with your main, this smells of a inside job.
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Kyguard
Game-Over The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.08.21 20:53:00 -
[164]
Well I'm convinced. Thanks for that explanation GM Guard. -
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Dionisius
Gallente Sincarnate Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:17:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Sgt Napalm So you ban a pilot who most likely had no clue that the ISK came from a 'hacked accounts'. Yet the people doing the hacking most likely already have new accounts and are back to farming, hacking, etc... Then you ask him for proof that this came from rent??? How is he suppose to provide that evidence, a receipt?
I guess that fixed the problem.
Post with your main, this smells of a inside job.
Did you read the whole explanation the GM provided? The isk came from isk sellers, hacked accounts or not its still illegal to buy isk.
And besides this whole mess just reinforces the point that buying isk just causes more harm to the playerbase than good.
The guy is banned the titan is removed and CCP offered compensation to the people that contributed within game mechanics to the thing.
Only proof CCP needs is the logs and the logs don't lie as simple as that. _____________________________________
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Darth Sith
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.21 22:15:00 -
[166]
Originally by: GM Guard Hi everyone.
We discovered all of this during a routine investigation into an ISK selling operation that had been hacking accounts with key loggers and stealing ISK from players. We were not willing to overlook the fact that someone had just bought a Titan with ISK that came directly from account hacking ISK sellers. Blame us if you want.
Whether the ISK was "skimmed" off the top of some rent deal has yet to be proven and nothing we have seen so far points to that. We actually only heard that explanation after our lengthy talks with the titan pilot came to an end. He had every opportunity to explain the deal to us if indeed it is real, but chose not to for some reason. The explanations we got instead were insubstantial and not consistent with our logs.
Contrary to what has been stated on this thread, we did actually make some efforts to compensate other alliance members for their contributions to this project and as of now those efforts are still ongoing.
I can safely speak for every EVE GM when I say that none of us enjoys a mess like this one. We know that removing a titan, even one funded in this manner, causes distress for innocent alliance members, but the presence of ISK sellers causes such an amount of problems for our players that we have to take a firm stance.
The best way to avoid problems of this nature is to refrain from engaging in any sort of business with ISK sellers.
Best Regards, Lead GM Guard EVE Online Customer Support
First, thakyou to GM guard for the response.
Secondly, this is completely in line with the information I posted in my official alliance post on the COAD forums after this story came out.
I originally did not get into detail of the petition in place on the matter due to standing CCP rules regarding thier discussion, however since Guard has posted it here, I should post our side of it. But i did post that efforts were underway for restitution and i admit to not bothering to read all the crap in this thread anymore.
In regards to the petition, I would like to say that GM Guard has been going out of his way to work with me personally though this mess and rumours of all GM's being bung holes aren't true. He has treated the situation with professionalism and is being thorough. I can confirm that CCP has made effort to split the "questionable isk" from the isk i personally funded into the titan and make restitution on my portion based on the fact that I have been able to trace the legit origin of all monies I contributed to the project. That said, there is some remaining debate on some other items so the petition remains open and active.
It is important to point out that this debate on the forums has decayed to a DAISHO conversation. All that is in question is the isk aquisition actions of one of our members and it is important that I point out that the alliance in general is not implicated in this at all. I ask that you keep this in mind and not trash the work that the general alliance population has done to remain a viable pvp entity in EVE.
We have said from day one that isk was skimmed from an isk farming corp .. and transfered in small amounts covertly .. prob is we have no way of proving he did not pay for it and are therefore guilty by association. I admit that our titan pilot was livid when the ship dissapeard and could have co-operated better with CCP .. all i know is that I am working the proper channels to try and work through this in a proper and supported manner. Some people use alt spies to steal bpo's , some ships, he stole isk from farmers .. all depends on how you want to look at it and weigh it out.
And now I turn this back to the trolls that want to twist this out of context for another 7 pages of incorrect garbage :)
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.21 23:38:00 -
[167]
The truth at last.
KIA EVE Home
KIA in game Public Channel "KIA"
KIA are Currently recruiting active PvP minded players. Contact Imperius Blackheart |
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.22 00:16:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Toolbert
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Toolbert I'm not, shows how little integrity they have. Its bad enough CCP only keeps the isk farmers and sellers around until they make a real big mess of things.
So if you dislike them so much, why are you still here?
hurrrrrr clearly because I dont agree with one thing I think this game is horrible
who wants to be the first pubbie to get all of my stuff because i'm quitting, cya guys later!
how ****ing stupid are you?
when i grow up can i be a toolbox like you?
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.08.22 03:45:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Toolbert
I thought it was CCPs policy to not discuss this sort of thing no matter what?
I'm glad they did.
Likewise. Thank you CCP.
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Crunchip
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.22 03:58:00 -
[170]
If this Titan Pilot would have said the truth there would be nothing to complain about the GM-Team.
Would you prefer to live in EVE having in mind that CCP "steals" your stuff ?
I think at this point GM Guard did the right thing to inform everyone about it. Else blatant rumors would have disturbed the whole case blaming CCP for whatever.
Still sad that people buy titans with real money.. either from ISK Sellers or GTC's :(
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Gojyu
Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.22 06:43:00 -
[171]
Quote: We have said from day one that isk was skimmed from an isk farming corp .. and transfered in small amounts covertly .. prob is we have no way of proving he did not pay for it and are therefore guilty by association.
The only problem with this, darth sith, is this:
Quote: That alt received 45 billion ISK - DIRECTLY - from many assorted ISK selling accounts. I am referring to those cut up streams of ISK donations, each totaling a few hundred million, with explanations that make very little sense. "Thx for your protection"..."Boy your ship"(sic)...etc.
You claim that the isk was skimmed from an isk farming corp, however, as GM Guard stated, the isk was sent from multiple accounts belonging to known isk sellers. How, if I may be so bold, were you able to infiltrate a corp of chinese farmers and have them send one character isk, in small payments, with multiple accounts, coincidentally designed to look exactly like bought isk, without the farmer corp knowing about it?
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Isaac Orion
Dreamscape Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.22 07:23:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Gojyu
You claim that the isk was skimmed from an isk farming corp, however, as GM Guard stated, the isk was sent from multiple accounts belonging to known isk sellers. How, if I may be so bold, were you able to infiltrate a corp of chinese farmers and have them send one character isk, in small payments, with multiple accounts, coincidentally designed to look exactly like bought isk, without the farmer corp knowing about it?
Now put all the details together. They were known isk sellers and also farmed isk on the side. The money skimmed was the income from the ratters which was put into a wallet. That wallet was skimmed from by another character who in turn gave the money to the titan pilot. Thus, as Darth Sith stated, guilty by association. No RL money used by the titan pilot. Just good old-fashioned skimming from isk-sellers who were making their isk by ratting. --------------------------------------
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Gojyu
Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.22 07:50:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Gojyu on 22/08/2008 07:50:45
Originally by: Isaac Orion
Originally by: Gojyu
You claim that the isk was skimmed from an isk farming corp, however, as GM Guard stated, the isk was sent from multiple accounts belonging to known isk sellers. How, if I may be so bold, were you able to infiltrate a corp of chinese farmers and have them send one character isk, in small payments, with multiple accounts, coincidentally designed to look exactly like bought isk, without the farmer corp knowing about it?
Now put all the details together. They were known isk sellers and also farmed isk on the side. The money skimmed was the income from the ratters which was put into a wallet. That wallet was skimmed from by another character who in turn gave the money to the titan pilot. Thus, as Darth Sith stated, guilty by association. No RL money used by the titan pilot. Just good old-fashioned skimming from isk-sellers who were making their isk by ratting.
The thing is, that's just strange for a number of reasons. Firstly, isk sellers don't send isk on their farming accounts, they use alt accounts to launder the gold/isk/credits whathaveyou, they're less traceable that way. The gm specifically said it came from known isk sellers, which would be entirely separate from the farming account, even the farming corp. Another strange point is this:
Quote:
That wallet was skimmed from by another character who in turn gave the money to the titan pilot.
I take it to mean that you're saying the alt mentioned by the gm was the other character. Why then, if this was the case, did the other character have donations from the isk farmers themselves? if he was skimming from a corp wallet, it wouldn't have been from individual accounts, it also wouldn't have random reasons for the donations. Alternatively, you might be arguing that the tax paid by the farmers itself was held by this character, and that the skimming was done from this character's wallet to the titan pilot. This is confusing as well, since if the farmers were from the same corp, the most logical way to handle it would be for the corp wallet to be used to pay the tax, however you're saying that each individual farmer paid x amount at a set time? Just seems like a questionable way of doing things
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Purgatori
Minmatar Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.22 07:53:00 -
[174]
Geez you guys go take a step back and think what your typing!!
Ok so before the GM posted..It was.. Down with CCP and tell us what happend! we demand it!! yarr !! So after a few threads of chest beating a GM speaks out.. Now the chest beating is..OMG he broke the rules that we wanted him to! Down with CCP again!! yarr!!
Thank you CCP for intertacting with your playerbase and keeping us updated on what really happend.. Least they had the balls to post. And with what the GM;s found i would of banned him my self if i was a GM.
Think before you post...
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Isaac Orion
Dreamscape Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.22 08:16:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Gojyu
The thing is, that's just strange for a number of reasons. Firstly, isk sellers don't send isk on their farming accounts, they use alt accounts to launder the gold/isk/credits whathaveyou, they're less traceable that way. The gm specifically said it came from known isk sellers, which would be entirely separate from the farming account, even the farming corp. Another strange point is this:
I take it to mean that you're saying the alt mentioned by the gm was the other character. Why then, if this was the case, did the other character have donations from the isk farmers themselves? if he was skimming from a corp wallet, it wouldn't have been from individual accounts, it also wouldn't have random reasons for the donations. Alternatively, you might be arguing that the tax paid by the farmers itself was held by this character, and that the skimming was done from this character's wallet to the titan pilot. This is confusing as well, since if the farmers were from the same corp, the most logical way to handle it would be for the corp wallet to be used to pay the tax, however you're saying that each individual farmer paid x amount at a set time? Just seems like a questionable way of doing things
Some valid questions there.
Let me try and put the entire picture together and hopefully this will clear it up and end this speculation for now.
A ratting corp (multiple characters depositing to the same corp wallet) gets access from an alliance to rat in their space. In return, the alliance gets a percentage of that money as a collateral for letting the ratters in the space (aka, tax). In order for that to happen, said alliance needs an alt in the ratting corp to take said tax from the corp wallet. That character took some of the money and gave it to the mentioned titan pilot (not the actual titan pilot, who is an alt of course) through "donations with random reasons". That ends that story. No harm in that right? Just good old fashioned stealing from some isk farmers.
Here's the kicker. The same ratting corp sells that isk they rat for RL money (most likely through alts). CCP finds out about the isk selling. They do a trace to find the source. Lo and behold, they find that the same isk was taken from the isk farming corp and eventually transferred to said titan pilot. Thus, the titan pilot is guilty by association with the isk used by the isk farming corp to eventually sell for RL money. Does that put it in perspective now?
If it does or not, I rest my case until everything is resolved. This is from what I gathered by all these posts. If I'm mistaken, I withdraw my argument. No sense in really continuing the discussion here. --------------------------------------
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Huan Hunglong
Intensive CareBearz
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Posted - 2008.08.22 09:29:00 -
[176]
Originally by: GM Guard Whether the ISK was "skimmed" off the top of some rent deal has yet to be proven and nothing we have seen so far points to that.
So if you cannot disprove it, how can you go about assuming it wasnt the case?
Originally by: Toolbert
I thought it was CCPs policy to not discuss this sort of thing no matter what?
CCP's policy differs depending on who its being enforced apon.
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Kian Jorry
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.22 09:33:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Isaac Orion
(...) said alliance needs an alt in the ratting corp to take said tax from the corp wallet (...)
Having an account associated with an isk farming corp in which you have corp wallet roles is a Good Idea, right?
But if
Originally by: Isaac Orion
(...) That ends that story. No harm in that right? Just good old fashioned stealing from some isk farmers. (...)
then why
Originally by: GM Guard
(...) He had every opportunity to explain the deal to us if indeed it is real, but chose not to for some reason. The explanations we got instead were insubstantial and not consistent with our logs. (...)
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.22 15:25:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Toolbert
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Toolbert I'm not, shows how little integrity they have. Its bad enough CCP only keeps the isk farmers and sellers around until they make a real big mess of things.
So if you dislike them so much, why are you still here?
hurrrrrr clearly because I dont agree with one thing I think this game is horrible
who wants to be the first pubbie to get all of my stuff because i'm quitting, cya guys later!
how ****ing stupid are you?
Put up, shut up, or do something about it. Either way, stop whining about your perceived unfairness of a internet spaceships game, your SA masters would be dissapointed by your n00bishness.
Also, after 6 pages, when we find the whole story, i'd like to see the ppl that still stand by dino's credibility, including some of the alliance leaders that posted - warned you about looking like a fool kiaeddz.
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LadyScarlet
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.22 15:40:00 -
[179]
so if Dashio was indeed taking isk from isk sellers ( which is what the gm is pointing out )
can we get a list of those names/and corporations of people who was selling the isk one just for general record and to to verify the corp has been shut down and no one is doing any future business with them ?
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Ketch Kan
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.22 16:21:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Ketch Kan on 22/08/2008 16:23:34 Thank you GM Guard for your post
To the rest of you à.. 1:Yes I was taking isk from people I knew to be isk farmers 2:No I have never hacked an account nor did I know anything about account hacking till GuardÆs post 3:My alliance had no knowledge of any of my transactions (why would I tell them I wasnÆt proud of it ) 4: I was excepting isk for blue standings for over a year even when I didnÆt have the ability to set standings in that alliance anymore 5: as Guard pointed out I got isk in small amounts with some stupid description. That was a recent development most the early transfers did not go this way. 6: the last convo with the farmers was when they found out thay didnÆt have blue standings with anyone in the area they ratted and man they didnÆt like me. 7: the toon that received the isk was deleted to make room for another toon and because it couldnÆt get isk from very mad farmers any more.
If in fact the isk I received came from Hacked accounts then the titan should be removed, then reimburse any one who lost isk to a hack (farmers I can deal with, hackers should be shot on site ) As far as a perma ban on the pilot thatÆs up to CCP not the forums.
I will be putting my toons up on the forums as a lottery pick a number if you pick the right one you get the toon associated with that number I will ask CCPÆs help in a way to insure you cant just use alts on the same account to get more numbers .
I am quitting EVE and if you guys want to keep playing then YES YOU CAN HAVE MY STUFF but only as fare as I can make it for every one.
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