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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.07 16:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: ScratchTheSkin so guys i have a negative -2.00 with minmitar and a negative -2.07 with gallante not that this was done on purpose but was done all the same, doe,s this mean i am never gonna de able to get those faction standings back up , in which case if i only work caldari and amarr means that these 2 nagative standings i have will lower even more till eventually i cant enter their space .
its not that 'easy'. if you have -2 standings (modified) - you could perhaps still adjust it above -2 by training diplomacy to V (if you havent done so already. besides with gallente and minmatar - they have quite a number of factions which they like. so if you are still able to run missions for those factions, doing important storyline ones for those will give you a derived faction standings gain with minmatar/gallente (eg. soe)
Originally by: iudex You have to chose what pirate faction you can run mission for based on what empire you worked for. For every empire faction there are neutral pirate factions, that don't lose standing when you do empire storylines.
For example Guristas (as the main enemies of Caldari) are neutral to Gallente for obvious reasons ("the enemy of my enemy is my friend"). Angel Cartel and Serpentis are neutral to Caldari. There is no level 4 missions that requires you to kill Serpentis (in WC you can chose to run against Guristas, "Cargo Delivery" doesn't require to kill ships). Angel Cartel ships only appear at Angel Extravaganza, if you reject that mission you can work up your way to Caldari faction standing +10 without losing any standings with Serpentis/Angel Cartel, and later do missions for that pirates without ruining your Caldari standing (they don't give missions against Caldaris either, no derived standing loss).
Find a pirate faction that is neutral to the empire faction which you run missions for. If you got your faction standing below -2 by doing that rare missions which are given to you against a neutral pirate faction, you can still get the faction standing up by running missions to small side faction pirates, that are liked by the pirate faction which you want to run missions for (check the standing tab of that side pirate faction), for example Thukkers or The Syndicate for Angels/Serpentis (in case Thukkers have storyline agents, didn't check that).
well, again its not that 'easy' ^^ a) you dont only get negative standings by completing important storyline missions for enemy factions, but by killing structures / ships too. and this negative impact is not related to any gain you have. basically you could manage to have only negative standings with every faction in game by just killing their ships/structures (and not running missions at all). b) there are certain factions (especially blood/shansha/guristas) that are only positive towards each other. so if you run missions in amarr space - or just rat a lot against these factions, its quite easy to get them all to a value, that makes it impossible to ever recover again ... and run missions for them. c) if you happen to run pirate faction missions, you will notice that you will be sent against concord from time to time. thus killing those (see a) will have an impact on your concord standings, which are not recoverable at all, because concord likes no other faction, nor do they give out important storyline missions. |
chatgris
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Posted - 2008.11.07 17:52:00 -
[32]
This is a large obstacle to me leaving high-sec space. So I go to 0.0, and then what, I can't run any missions?
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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.11.07 21:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin a) you dont only get negative standings by completing important storyline missions for enemy factions, but by killing structures / ships too. and this negative impact is not related to any gain you have. basically you could manage to have only negative standings with every faction in game by just killing their ships/structures (and not running missions at all). b) there are certain factions (especially blood/shansha/guristas) that are only positive towards each other. so if you run missions in amarr space - or just rat a lot against these factions, its quite easy to get them all to a value, that makes it impossible to ever recover again ... and run missions for them. c) if you happen to run pirate faction missions, you will notice that you will be sent against concord from time to time. thus killing those (see a) will have an impact on your concord standings, which are not recoverable at all, because concord likes no other faction, nor do they give out important storyline missions.
To a) + b): Of course you will lose access to all pirates if you rat accross all 4 empires. If you stay in caldari space, rats will be Guristas, never Angels or Serpentis. All you have to do as level 4 missionrunner is to reject the Angel Extravaganza mission, this way you never kill their ships or structure. A little inconvenience for the option to later run missions for them. Regarding Sanshas/Bloods/Guristas: they are all neutral to Gallente/Minmatar, so if you don't rat them (i assume in Minni/Gallente space you won't find this rats anyways) and avoid the few missions that have them as target, you keep the chance to run missions for all 3 of them, or if you keep at least one of them above -2, you can repair the standing of the other two quite easily.
To c): It is true, there is a standing loss towards the concord faction. But if i remember well there's only the mission "The Blockade" for level 4s that is against concord (maybe few more with level 2/3 agents). That mission isn't very profitable anyways, simply reject it. The good thing with pirates is that they have that hubs with multiple agents, so you can pick only the best missions. In my system there are 10 level 4 q 20 agents for example, so you only do always the best missions, enough room for a lot of rejecting. Besides that your security standing is tied to concord corporation standing, not the faction. And when you do pirate storylines the concord corporation is affected, the faction only is affected by ship/structure kills, which can be avoided. And the concord corporation (= your sec status) loss throug pirate storylines is made up by sec gain when killing non-empire faction mission npcs (e.g. i kill lot's of sanshas/bloodraiders/mercenaries/mordus when running missions for angel cartel).
So to sum up the long post: all you need is to get your infos, avoid certain missions and you keep your cances to run missions for a particular faction (ofc. you wont do missions for guristas if your a caldari missionrunner, or for serpentis if your gallente).
_________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.08 09:46:00 -
[34]
one (unique) point of eve is (jmo) that you can change your activities at any time - using the same character. the sole possibility that you can lock yourself out forever to run missions for certain factions contradicts that principle. just take someone that lived in amarr space. if he didnt follow your guidelines (quite from the start) its very likely that he will have no chance to run missions for the mentioned trio, because he will not only have got derived faction standings loss thanks to important storyline missions (which at least give standings gain for other factions) - but loss due to kills against all those three factions (amarr missions, doesnt matter which region you are in) will force you to kill ships/structures of all those 3 pirate factions. now take the possibility that this person joins a corp that operates in 0.0 blood space ... even if he wants, he wont be able to ever run missions for them. besides the fact, that rats there (if he wants to rat) will be blood too.
if you do pirate faction important storylines, your concord faction will be affected obviously, because concord (faction) dislikes all (pure) pirate factions. on the other hand, concord does not like any faction at all and gives no important storyline missions (most likely, because they are liked by all empire factions)
So to sum it up - i dont think its 'enough' to be able to not lock your possibilities if you follow certain rules from the start. there should be always a way to recover from your past actions ... even if it would be a tendous task. but it should be possible.
ps: i am not suggesting / looking for a 'cheap' solution ... but imo there should be a solution. if u care, take a look at the ideas from the locked thread that i linked earlier. |
Doctor Mahbuse
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Posted - 2008.11.08 10:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Chani Fedaykin if you do pirate faction important storylines, your concord faction will be affected obviously, because concord (faction) dislikes all (pure) pirate factions. on the other hand, concord does not like any faction at all and gives no important storyline missions (most likely, because they are liked by all empire factions)
This can't be true. My friend Sabahl has a standing of -0,10(Neutral) to CONCORD Assembly and 3,56(Decent) to CONCORD. He has done A LOT of important storylines for angel and serpentis pirates, check his standings in game, he has 8,17 with angels and 8,00 with serpentis. If you were right he'd have a horrible standing to CONCORD Assembly, but he doesn't have it, search in game for "Sabahl" and have a look on his standings.
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Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.08 16:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Doctor Mahbuse This can't be true. My friend Sabahl has a standing of -0,10(Neutral) to CONCORD Assembly and 3,56(Decent) to CONCORD. He has done A LOT of important storylines for angel and serpentis pirates, check his standings in game, he has 8,17 with angels and 8,00 with serpentis. If you were right he'd have a horrible standing to CONCORD Assembly, but he doesn't have it, search in game for "Sabahl" and have a look on his standings.
i have to admit, that i seem to be wrong in that case. however my 'experience' with running pirate faction missions is dated some time ago (approx. a year) and iirc i had a derived faction standing loss listed under concord faction (which would only be possible, if you could gain/loose standings by doing important storyline missions). however as i said, its long ago and thus i am not able to proof it, because the transactions contain no entries anymore ... and perhaps it was changed. (thukker relations to minmatar have changed too - iirc - after factional warefare was introduced) |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:57:00 -
[37]
a last bump before my account expires (even if it seems to be schizophrenic taking the fact that i dont know if i will return to eve)
gl and fun too u all - and gl to ccp, perhaps you reconsider your crm strategy :P |
Furb Killer
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.23 10:59:00 -
[38]
You probably got a ore standing that is higher than -2. Then you can run missios for ore, this results in higher syndicate standing, then you can run missions for them. Next you can run missions for serpentis, and i think angels like serpentis/syndicate, but not sure about that one.
But yeah there should be a bit more straightforward method, but it shouldnt be easy. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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WheatGrass
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.12.26 02:01:00 -
[39]
I was not aware of this problem. If true, my plans for null sec will have to be revised.
Imagine the humor/horror of a pod pilot out in null sec trying to get a job and no pirate factions willing to give one. Good luck to that pilot returning to high sec.
---
I wonder how many other Eve quirks await my discovery. The last was when I informed a friend about my plans to run Jovian missions. He kindly pointed out that doing so was impossible. That was only after I had already looked through every Jovian corp for agents -finding none.
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Runewitch
Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.26 17:43:00 -
[40]
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:17:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 14/03/2009 11:20:52
Please fix this CCP!
PS Anyone championing this cause will instantly become my best friend.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2009.03.14 22:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: AndzX11 Edited by: AndzX11 on 17/08/2008 22:21:47 Not going into long talk, here is the problem. Should you be a pilot that has negative standings for a certain(any) pirate faction it is impossible to raise the faction standing back up again if it is below -2.
Empire agents appear to work like this: 1. Faction Standing below -2 = Unable to use faction agents 2. Positive standings acquired through gang missioning to a corp = can use that corps agents. 3. Gangs can be used to get ruined factional standings back up by doing storyline missions.
0.0 Pirate agents appear to work like this: 1. Same as empire agents. 2. Positive standings acquired through gang missioning to certain npc corp = still cannot use even that corps agents if faction standing below -2. 3. Cannot acquire faction standings through gang storyline missions.
There is no game mechanic difference at all between empire and pirate agents and standings.
Faction standing from storyline missions cannot be shared with a gang, no exceptions.
Having -2.0 or worse with a faction (after skills) blacklists you for all agents in all corporations of that faction, no exception.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 23:06:00 -
[43]
Sigh, necro with outdated information about a bug that had already been corrected at the time.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia There is no game mechanic difference at all between empire and pirate agents and standings.
This is false.
Data centers
If you screw your standings with any empire faction and ALL its friends, (has been done) you can turn in rare pirate tags to a faction data center. IMHO this is a balanced method to achieve forgiveness for past transgressions. It has, however been made more expensive since the introduction of factional warfare.
To the OP: I would support the introduction of data centers for pirate factions. AFAIK they do not exist and they should. For example, turning in rare Gallente tags to the newly created Serpentis data centers could gain one the same factional gain with them as turning in rare Serpentis tags to a Gallente data center.
This would solve the problem with a scalpel instead of taking a sledge hammer to the current standings mechanics.
My .02 isk
Patri
A fool usually thinks he is a genius |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:19:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 15/03/2009 15:19:56 dbl post
Patri
A fool usually thinks he is a genius |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Sigh, necro with outdated information about a bug that had already been corrected at the time.
This issue hasn't been corrected unless your privy to information us lesser mortals aren't?
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Jalif
Minmatar Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.03.16 11:20:00 -
[47]
If you run mission for them you should get a security standing decrease. Basicly, if you run to much of them you will reach the -10.0
|Black Sinisters| |
Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.03.27 22:15:00 -
[48]
This was raised by Ankh back in September, did anything ever come of it?
CSMWiki Link
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Aethrwolf
Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.03.28 07:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: ScratchTheSkin so guys i have a negative -2.00 with minmitar and a negative -2.07 with gallante not that this was done on purpose but was done all the same, doe,s this mean i am never gonna de able to get those faction standings back up , in which case if i only work caldari and amarr means that these 2 nagative standings i have will lower even more till eventually i cant enter their space .
pretty much. you should see MY Minmatar and Gallente standings Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.03.29 22:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf This was raised by Ankh back in September, did anything ever come of it?
CSMWiki Link
Yes I bashed into their heads that there should really be an interbus station to at least fix empire standings. On the pirate ones they were very vague, but said they would like to see some mechanics that allow it. Don't expect anything soon for them though. Faction standings really need to be dynamic based on game events, IMO, it makes no sense to have them fixed like this. ---
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Sumnamna
Flying Scotsmen
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Posted - 2009.06.03 21:11:00 -
[51]
Is this going to be addressed at the meeting on the 7th or will it be allowed to die? I have not seen it on the agenda to be addressed and none of the current CSM Members have championed it that I can find.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.07.06 04:18:00 -
[52]
This is marked as a "resolved issue" in CSMWiki - http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/Standing_Recovery Does anybody know how to resolve concord faction standing as I still am not aware of a method to recover standings for this faction, and I am concerned that it will make flying through empire awkward with all the CONCORD npcs at stargates.
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XHolyAvengerX
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Posted - 2009.07.06 07:31:00 -
[53]
/signed
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2009.07.06 18:56:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 06/07/2009 18:56:48 I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to bribe pirate factions to increase standings up to -2.0, so that the worst agents could be used as a starting point. I mean, come on, they're pirates, money is everything to them.
Of course, donating large sums of money to pirate organizations might get the attention of the officials, and faction / security ratings might be adjusted a bit as well.
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.06 23:17:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Atiana Obaani
Tomoe Laboratories Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.07.09 01:56:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Atiana Obaani on 09/07/2009 01:56:52 This is easily resolved by CCP focusing on COSMOS again.
Hard to find pirate datacenters (tag exchange agents) in empire space, as well as more pirate cosmos agents in the empire/lowsec cosmos constellations (there are already angel and guristas agents in these areas).
Boom done.
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