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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 21:57:00 -
[1]
I spent quite a lot of time carefully reading the EULA before I carried out this operation.
The idea was that I would setup a fake mothership sale and use an ALT similar to CHRIBBA to steal the buyers money.
It worked. Now I had an idea that CCP would see it as a scam/exploit and take the ISK off me. Which they did.
They mailed me and explained that because I had impersonated CHRIBBA I had violated the EULA. The link that they gave me to help explain this is:
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/namepolicy.asp
Now I have gone back and read the whole EULA and I cant see anywhere anything about setting up a character with a similar name and doing this is a violation.
Not really bothered about the ISK tbh, the thing that bothers me is that some players have far to much protection from CCP. It would have taken the buyer 10 seconds to check the person he was speaking to and realise that it was not 'the' CHRIBBA. There are thousands of scams/exploits that go on everyday why is this an exception??
I know the ALT that I setup to do the scam was similar to CHRIBBA, but, at no time during the transaction did I claim to be CHRIBBA or carry out secure transactions.
In my eyes if a player is stupid enough to give me the ISK for a mothership without doing the proper checks then he deserves to lose it, just like it would be in RL.
I'll leave you with some words of wisdom from CCP:
Tips
* DON'T TRUST ANYONE. It's a tough galaxy out there, and anyone could betray you. * Make sure that the person you are doing business with is who he says he is. EVE-Online has a unique naming policy, making it impossible for more than one player to have the same name. However, names may be very similar, and it is a good idea to be 100% certain that the party you are dealing with is the real thing. Also, never believe someone who says he is an alternate character of someone you know but doesn't offer any proper proof.
Thanks for your time,
EVECitizen19821743 formerly CHRI8BA
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:00:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton owned
and deserved.
hail the real Chribba!
I fail to seee how I was 'owned' but thanks for your input.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:03:00 -
[3]
Originally by: The Herrick Remember kids, scamming and stealing is a-ok, but don't for a second think about impersonating everyones favorite miner.
Thats exactly what i'm thinking. If it had been anyone else would CCP have done the same thing?
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton dunno, your iskies are gone though.
I have plenty more :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joey Meow You are not allowed to impersonate other players. Especially if you are using similar name, and claiming to be him: CHR1BBA for example - you are lucky you did not get banned.
You can scam, however, if you can convince the mark that EVECitizen19821743 is ¦HRIBBA's ALT, but you have to make sure you use that stupid character name of yours.
1. I didn't pick this stupid name CCP did :)
2. I can choose any unique name that I like. The name I chose was unique. There are thousands of characters out there with 1 or 2 characters different in their name but ver similar overall.
3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:
'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'
Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Billy Sastard I don't think that the GM who handled that case made the correct decision. If you have not already, I would suggest petitioning and asking for clarification of which section of the EULA states it is not allowed to impersonate other players. If you have already petitioned, then escalate it.
I understand from the EULA that it is against the rules to impersonate CCP employees or a NPC official and that sort of thing, but impersonating players has been OK...
Maybe the GM is under the mistaken impression that chribba is an NPC?
I have petitioned already on clarification of this very point.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lillian D'Florite
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: Joey Meow You are not allowed to impersonate other players. Especially if you are using similar name, and claiming to be him: CHR1BBA for example - you are lucky you did not get banned.
You can scam, however, if you can convince the mark that EVECitizen19821743 is ¦HRIBBA's ALT, but you have to make sure you use that stupid character name of yours.
1. I didn't pick this stupid name CCP did :)
2. I can choose any unique name that I like. The name I chose was unique. There are thousands of characters out there with 1 or 2 characters different in their name but ver similar overall.
3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:
'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'
Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.
EVECitizen
you got to ask the question: How many people ACTUALLY knows Chribba? ...
sure I hear alot about the guy... but I never met him
If your looking to buy a mothership you should have and NEED to have heard of him :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Joey Meow
Originally by: Lillian D'Florite
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: Joey Meow You are not allowed to impersonate other players. Especially if you are using similar name, and claiming to be him: CHR1BBA for example - you are lucky you did not get banned.
You can scam, however, if you can convince the mark that EVECitizen19821743 is ¦HRIBBA's ALT, but you have to make sure you use that stupid character name of yours.
1. I didn't pick this stupid name CCP did :)
2. I can choose any unique name that I like. The name I chose was unique. There are thousands of characters out there with 1 or 2 characters different in their name but ver similar overall.
3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:
'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'
Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.
EVECitizen
you got to ask the question: How many people ACTUALLY knows Chribba? ...
sure I hear alot about the guy... but I never met him
How was your name spelled?
Name was spelled CHRI8BA.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743 2. I can choose any unique name that I like. The name I chose was unique. There are thousands of characters out there with 1 or 2 characters different in their name but ver similar overall.
Not really, no. Your name has to fall within the rules, and you intentionally made your name with the intention of having people think you were the real Chribba.
Quote: 3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:
'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'
Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.
Just because you don't tell them, it's obvious that you intended for them to think that. Thus, you were impersonating him.
I still think the rules are a bit murky on this TBH. Why would CCP put all those tips in the knowledge base if the operation that I carried out was against EULA and people could just petition and get their ISK back.
EVECitizen |
EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743 2. I can choose any unique name that I like. The name I chose was unique. There are thousands of characters out there with 1 or 2 characters different in their name but ver similar overall.
Not really, no. Your name has to fall within the rules, and you intentionally made your name with the intention of having people think you were the real Chribba.
Quote: 3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:
'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'
Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.
Just because you don't tell them, it's obvious that you intended for them to think that. Thus, you were impersonating him.
I still think the rules are a bit murky on this TBH. Why would CCP put all those tips in the knowledge base if the operation that I carried out was against EULA and people could just petition and get their ISK back.
EVECitizen
okay, if you are playing that card...
.... in your case is different,
since you didnt really work for the scam =P
CCP wants scammers to work for their stuff...(one of the devs made a very not so nice comment in the market section of the forum a looong time ago)
you just rode on another person's reputation....
hence the difference btwn an original scammer scamming and someone who impersonated (even if its not explicitly done...) someone else for the purpose of scamming.
Wouldn't have said an easy ride. I had to train corp management 1 :), wait until the real CHRIBBA was offline and there was a certain amount of social engineering on my part as the buyer said when I convoed him 'I didn't see you log on mate'
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jimer Lins Stop trying to split hairs on the specific wording. This isn't the U.S. Code, this is a EULA that CCP is allowed to interpret.
Any reasonable person would agree that using such a similar name (even without any direct inference from you that you were Chribba) is an attempt to impersonate him.
So yes, you got a slap on the wrist. They could have perma-banned you.
Would have prefered a slapped bottom tbh :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jimer Lins Stop trying to split hairs on the specific wording. This isn't the U.S. Code, this is a EULA that CCP is allowed to interpret.
Any reasonable person would agree that using such a similar name (even without any direct inference from you that you were Chribba) is an attempt to impersonate him.
So yes, you got a slap on the wrist. They could have perma-banned you.
So wait, that would mean that all the people with names that are 1 character different from another name but look very similar could be forced to change it if they did something underhand/scam.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Le Skunk I am chribba
SKUNK
No your a numpty
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: Jimer Lins Stop trying to split hairs on the specific wording. This isn't the U.S. Code, this is a EULA that CCP is allowed to interpret.
Any reasonable person would agree that using such a similar name (even without any direct inference from you that you were Chribba) is an attempt to impersonate him.
So yes, you got a slap on the wrist. They could have perma-banned you.
So wait, that would mean that all the people with names that are 1 character different from another name but look very similar could be forced to change it if they did something underhand/scam.
EVECitizen
Only if they did it with the intent of impersonating that character. In your case, it's so obvious it doesn't even bear investigation. In other cases, the GM would probably look at the accounts, see if they have any history, check the logs to see if there was an attempt to impersonate them, etc.
If it's just a coincidence of names, they'd ignore it. It's really not hard to figure out.
I'm not having a hard time figuring that out I just don't think it should be that way.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:03:00 -
[15]
Ah well was worth a try :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Richard Angevian Biggest mistake you made was in not laundering the isk out of that account as soon as you got it. Yeah, you'd have ruined that toon with a negative balance but you'd have kept the isk :)
FYI, CCP does know how to check more than one character, and they do. Nice attempt though.
If you are smart, and plan things in advance, you can move isk without any possibility of CCP being able to take it from the party that received it. Been there, done that :)
Bottom line is that they never should have intervened in this case in the first place. An idiot who didn't bother to do ANY checking on a transaction in which he was going to spend BILLIONS is someone who deserves to be scammed, and who would have fallen prey to ANY scam.
People pretending to be what they aren't or pretending to be someone else is how every con job ever pulled off has been played. If con jobs of any sort in EVE is sanctioned (and far bigger ones than this have been) this one should be.
Methinks CCP has made a great leap to "Carebears Online" with this move.
If I ever bought a mothership from someone not in my own alliance, you can be damn sure I'd use Chribba, and yes, I'd take the effort to make sure that not only was it the authentic one, I'd research the background of the seller too.
That's the bare minimum effort that the "victim" in this case should have taken, didn't, got taken.
BTW, name and shame the "victim". I think he deserves some ridicule.
Well i wasn't going to name the victim as I thought he took it on the chin like a man. He obviously didn't and ran crying to CCP. So here's a tip Last King......DO YOUR RESEARCH.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: GM Krymus Blah blah we love carebears
I don't think there should be that level of protection for players.
EVECITIZEN
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: GM Krymus Blah blah we love carebears
I don't think there should be that level of protection for players.
EVECITIZEN
Not your decision. The EULA's been around for a long time, and that part of it hasn't changed in many years.
When did I say it was my decision. I'm only expressing my point of view.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chribba you all are making my forum spy go wild with sending me notices
As for the topic, impersonating players have been forbidden in the EULA since years back, no question about it.
Nice bio you got... did you come up with that one yourself? Ahh no you copied mine, ok.
Why would I come up with one myself. I was merely passing on some valuable information to the Eve community.
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Originally by: GM Krymus Blah blah we love carebears
I don't think there should be that level of protection for players.
EVECITIZEN
There are plenty of ways to scam. Just because you succeeded in one of the only ways that CCP prohibits, and are unhappy they reversed it, doesn't mean their decision here is unreasonable or that they're all about carebears. This policy has existed for all of EVE, and EVE is still about the only game where the devs condone most forms of scamming as part of the gameplay.
As the GM's condone scamming why should cases like these be treated any differently?
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tassadar Beta
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
I got caught, halp! whine! its not fair! I should be allowed to violate the EULA!
EVECitizen
I know what I'd like to violate
Don't be shy what would you like to violate?
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:35:00 -
[22]
Edited by: EVECitizen19821743 on 13/08/2008 23:34:51
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743 Why would I come up with one myself. I was merely passing on some valuable information to the Eve community.
EVECitizen
I heard it was more fun that way, guess I was lied to
And yeah the information is valuable indeed, and hopefully preventional as well as like said, it could be a viable way to get banned. So don't impersonate people, build your own reputation instead of leeching off others.
Haha leech off you. I couldn't think of anything more boring than facilitating trades for other people. I wasn't doing it for the reputation :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.14 21:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Serenity Steele It's pretty fair from where I'm standing, deliberately creating names to scam off people's reputations is bad for EVE as a game overall. Supporting Chribba is a good move.
During every ISS IPO, I used to have multiple people try to create similar characters, specifically for the purpose of profiting from poor typers etc. They all had their names changed by CCP. I think in total it was about 25 incidents, including ones which I spotted and notified people like Torn Soul amongst others.
If CCP hadn't done that, then there would be a limited market forum, and people like Chribba woudln't be doing things like EVE-Files, which is an astoundingly good development for EVE.
So no sympathy from me. Go work out how to do a clever scam.
What is not fair is that you can't chose another name.
I can choose another name :) Just got to petition and get it changed :)
EVECitizen
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EVECitizen19821743
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Posted - 2008.08.14 22:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743 I spent quite a lot of time carefully reading the EULA before I carried out this operation.
There is reading ability and then there's reading comprehension, you might be able to do the 1st but you seriously fail at the second one.
BTW, me and my wife are Chribba, err, Brian
The EULA is not clear.
EVECitizen
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