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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2008.08.11 23:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 11/08/2008 23:42:56 Lalala Ankh's gone MAD!
Okay, not really, this is just a compilation of all the creative garbage floating around in my head, but why not post it and hope it will distil into something useful? Don't take it too seriously, but instead see if you can salvage some useful parts of it and incorporate it into different things. If you think it is promising, well I'd love to hear that too of course.
Agents in 0.0 alliance space!
Surely it must have been a high-sec carebear coming up with this kind of rambling, but read on anyway. There are outposts floating around in 0.0, so why no agents? Wouldn't it be possible to have agents from the NPC factions settle on these stations, and provide means to get unique standing combinations and special loyalty point rewards? Why couldn't alliances work towards building relations with the NPC factions, and have the agent standing payouts reflect this? So if the Goons would have built up ties with the Amarr and Minmatar but are somehow hostile to Gallente and ORE, the standings of people running missions for Goon agents would be shifted accordingly. Roleplayers would love this, and if CVA for example would be nice to Amarr and at least neutral to Gallente I would personally prefer to visit 0.0 and run missions for them instead of my regular high-sec agents.
But enough of that, it gets better. What about... Player created missions. Eve is supposed to be a player-driven universe, thus player action should affect the environment in a meaningful way. Agents could act as mediator for alliances, and hand out rewards for actions set by the alliance command. I'm sure some of you have played Ultima Online, where players could hire NPC vendors to put in their house to sell stuff on their behalf, well, that type of facilitator NPC.
Missions types could include: * SCOUT: obtaining the locations of X POSes belonging to enemy corp Y (agent would handle a database of known enemy POS locations to this purpose) * RAID: get POS X in system Y in reinforced mode * SIEGE: the destruction of POS X in system Y * SEARCH AND DESTROY: the destruction of X enemy ships * HAUL: Move items from X to Y * ACQUIRE: Gather X minerals and deliver them at station Y * PRODUCE: Produce specific item X Y times and deliver them at station Z * DEFEND: Ensure that POSes in system X remain unmolested for Y hours * PATROL: Score X kills in specific systems only * ESCORT: Make sure ship X gets from Y to Z unmolested
Alliances could specify the reward for players undertaking these efforts, and even reward standing, loyalty points (and consequently set up their own LP shop), and yet to be implemented things such as medals and rank points. I believe this would result in more player initiative and, when the alliance chooses to open up the agents (which can also have standing requirements), the chance for mercenaries and opportunists to participate in 0.0 warfare. It also provides a direct measurable way to determine how much a player has been contributing to the alliance.
Of course these missions could also be tied into the sovereignty system, with repeated successes making a system vulnerable like factional warfare, and a dynamic objective spawning that will ultimately result in the conquest of the system. Like "Blockade: Secure all stargates in this system for X hours".
Okay that was it for now. I also had some ideas with players owning small anchorable structures and being able to store small quantities of stuff there and call it home, and also have small production facilities to produce trade goods such as soil, livestock, holoreels and that sort of stuff, and that these trade goods would be consumed by the outposts, improving their quality, which results in them looking shinier in Ambulation with more bars and other facilities opening up, and also more and better NPC agents being attracted. Feel free to expand on this.
---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.08.11 23:57:00 -
[2]
i like the idea of player made missions.. but they are more like contracts really... for example. if i despise an allaince enough, i could basically put a bounty on their head, but being more specific, like kill x amount of ships 'mineral value' (so they dont suicide shuttle) and put up a cash prize sorta thing for the first 'group/corp/alliance' to accomplsh it... and maybe some reputation points or something...
also with the possibility of transferred killrights.. you can just pawn it off to the highest bidder sorta thing maybe... i dunno.. too many details, and a LOT of work would have to be done to implement it...
BUT. it would make this game DAMN fun for mercs and the like _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.11 23:58:00 -
[3]
i honestly dont care about the type of mission but something needs to be done about npc sov being massively better than true 0.0 and this is a step in the right direction
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fishblades
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 00:30:00 -
[4]
Some of these ideas are a bit wacky but 0.0 space needs to be more valuable and less tedious, not only to the Alliance but the individual pilot. The only way to make isk in 0.0 now is ratting and mining, adding agents is a good step.
Regarding the mission types. I don't see any need for 0.0 agents to be different than high sec, just more profitable and risky. Members shouldn't be paid for accomplishing strategic objectives.
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Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 00:42:00 -
[5]
Currently there is much more content available in empire via the missions there that those in 0.0 cannot enjoy. Adding missions to conquerable 0.0 space outside of just the npc regions would add a lot more variety to 0.0 and hopefully entice more people out there from empire.
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Kira Novia
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Posted - 2008.08.12 00:46:00 -
[6]
Why shouldn't 0.0 NPC space be better than regular 0.0?
0.0 NPC Space = No alliance protection, the TRUE all-or-nothing lands. These are the badlands of New Eden.
0.0 Alliance-Held Space = A Shitload (Usually, Hopefully) of Backup / Lots-n-Lots of Guns!
0.0 NPC Space should be the only truly -1.0 space in this game.
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mynnna
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 00:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kira Novia Why shouldn't 0.0 NPC space be better than regular 0.0?
0.0 NPC Space = No alliance protection, the TRUE all-or-nothing lands. These are the badlands of New Eden.
0.0 Alliance-Held Space = A Shitload (Usually, Hopefully) of Backup / Lots-n-Lots of Guns!
0.0 NPC Space should be the only truly -1.0 space in this game.
Because non-NPC 0.0 is taken and maintained by player-established infrastructure which must in turn be fought for and defended (or attacked). NPC 0.0 if excrement hits the cooling device, you just run for the station and hide until they go away; you have nothing to defend in the space, why bother fighting for it?
Back to the topic: Step in the right direction, terrible implementation. There's no reason for these player created missions when many of them (pos defense/destruction, for example) are filled by normal ops already. And many of them would be abusable. "Oh hey my alt(s) took the jump bridge from location X to location Y while my main had the mission to ensure Z ships go from X to Y safely, giev payment plz kthx", and so on.
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Jamie Hara
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.12 01:17:00 -
[8]
Kira Novia, your arguments are flawed and quite frankly dumb.
Originally by: Kira Novia
0.0 NPC Space = No alliance protection, the TRUE all-or-nothing lands. These are the badlands of New Eden.
Not true, there alliances in NPC 0.0 and they do protect players, to claim otherwise would be patently false. NPC 0.0 resembles empire high sec space more than player controlled 0.0 space because of the ability for anyone to dock at the stations present in NPC 0.0 space. The 'all or nothing' line of thought is correct if you apply it to docking and undocking ;).
Originally by: Kira Novia 0.0 Alliance-Held Space = A Shitload (Usually, Hopefully) of Backup / Lots-n-Lots of Guns!
0.0 space held by alliances does not equate guaranteed backup of any kind.
The amount of backup is not determined by whether or not you are in player controlled or NPC 0.0 space but by your alliance or corporation. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. |
mynnna
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 01:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jamie Hara The amount of backup is not determined by whether or not you are in player controlled or NPC 0.0 space but by your alliance or corporation.
It also depends on how far you have to go. If you want a system to yourself (so as to get the full potential out of it) you're often going to wind up several jumps away from your alliance's hubs. This need to spread out to get the most out of ratting is part of why large alliances hold so much space.
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Toman Jerich
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 01:43:00 -
[10]
This idea makes it more profitable to live in 0.0. Missions in conquerable space is something that people have been requesting consistently. Player-created missions is a cool vision. This gets the thumbs up.
Looking deeper, it appears that part of your idea is that assorted mission runners will come to the space of an alliance and run missions there on behalf of the alliance. This is like a way for people to contribute to a 0.0 alliance without being members of it or having any standings with it. That's a neat idea, although some of the details you mention are not really viable. For example, alliance standings are carefully and deliberately managed; I don't think that people would appreciate a game mechanic that could effect the standings set by a PC alliance. Beyond that, if those with no standing come into the space of a 0.0 alliance, people will attempt to destroy them for sport. So while I like that part of the idea, I can't think of a way to make it work. I wish I could, though, because more people visiting 0.0 means more PVP.
What could work is for those who do have standing to run missions in the space of their allies. For example, Hydra could run missions (NPC or PC created) for Pure agents, or whatever.
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SauI Tigh
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Posted - 2008.08.12 02:15:00 -
[11]
I don't know about the playerbased missions but having agents in 0.0 stations makes a lot of sense when you consider the risk reward ratio for currently being in 0.0 is very poor when you can make the same per hour in empire running l4 missions for no risk at all.
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Aruhcu
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Posted - 2008.08.12 02:16:00 -
[12]
Good idea, if people in empire can run missions why not add some more reward to the hardest thing in the game to own, a station owned by a corporation.
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 02:51:00 -
[13]
Uhm, you got it wrong Ankh.
We need NPC agents in player controlled 0.0
Player controlled 0.0 is horribly broken ISK wise. If I get into 17-belt -0.56 system and only find battlecruiser NPCs in 2 of them with rest of the belts empty, then something is REALLY wrong. Not to mention it takes 15-20 minutes to check all the belts in a battleship.
Yet, lvl4 combat missions generate guaranteed stream of ships to shoot at (ISK), and it's done with no risk whatsoever.
Make it possible for alliances to 'rent' NPC combat agents for a monthly fee or something. There were ideas to 'link' agent level to sov (lvl4 agent in sov4 system, etc), but it would probably not be fair to smaller alliances.
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Shichiro Motokana
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 02:53:00 -
[14]
I don't like the specific ideas you have but the general idea of having missions (more of all the services really) in 0.0 sounds good to me.
Adding faction agents (chosen from a list dictated by the owner's standings perhaps) to office outposts seems an obvious way to make them more popular. Although the conquerable stations should get some love too. -7san |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.08.12 03:38:00 -
[15]
The details of your player mission system sound more like an open mercenary contract than a mission in any conventional sense. Make them contracts, or equivalent, not agents. More NPC agents in 0.0 is a fairly good idea, but PC "agents" just sounds like bad terminology. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Malcanis
We are Legend eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.12 06:03:00 -
[16]
YES!
Simple method: add an outpost upgrade that supports and agent. Low- middle- and high-tier providing level 1-2, 3 and 4 agents respectively.
Buy the upgrade in Amarr space for an Amarr agent, Caldari space for a Caldari agent, etc.
Additional bonus: low level agents give very new players an accessible way to make ISK in 0.0. This was a problem I faced when trying to recruit very new players into a PvP corp; sure they could strap on a MWD and a scram/web and be useful, but they had no way to support themselves in between fights.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.12 07:56:00 -
[17]
Needs work, but it's a good start. ----------------- |
Jenny' JoJo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.12 08:45:00 -
[18]
1. Mission runner does empire missions 2. Mission runner migrates to 0.0 3. Mission runner finds out that step 1 killed his standings thus making it impossible to do 0.0 missions 4. Mission runner uses noobcorp alt to start missions while his main does them. Then he relises that 95% of missions are just standard lvl4 ones and most Pirate LP stores are total crap. 5. Mission runner thinks "WTF? Faction pirate ammo is WORSE than high sec, whats the point?"
Fix the above then you can take the next step.
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Jenny' JoJo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.12 08:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah * SCOUT: obtaining the locations of X POSes belonging to enemy corp Y (agent would handle a database of known enemy POS locations to this purpose) * RAID: get POS X in system Y in reinforced mode * SIEGE: the destruction of POS X in system Y * DEFEND: Ensure that POSes in system X remain unmolested for Y hours
You misunderstand the whole POS concept. The only reasons people make pos's is
1. Making mega billions/week from moon mining 2. As above but from making Simple/complex reaction for t2 production chain. 3. To Claim Sov so nobody can steal that station the alliance charges 10% refinery tax on 4. Bridge points, either for bridges or for safe places for carriers/jump frightors to cyno to etc. 5. To build supercaps with 6. Group of isk farmer/miner style players put a small up so they have a drop off point. Very rare but you do get people who think POS refining is cool because they cannot afford a rorqurel.
POS is not something people put up for the sake of it. POS's only exist in the bigger picture to make isk or to support the security/logistic of other pos's making isk.
All your POS missions are obsolete because the alliance gets a automatic evemail with location of enemy POS in their soverign space the second someone puts a pos up. Who gets the reward for someone bringing 400 players in caps to blow up a Dyso moon that earns the owner 20bil/month worth of rare reactions? Because thats whats happening in 0.0 atm.
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van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.12 09:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 11/08/2008 23:42:56 Lalala Ankh's gone MAD!
Lalala Ankh still has good idea, needs serious polishing, but still good fundamentals.
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Jenny' JoJo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.12 09:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jenny'' JoJo on 12/08/2008 09:08:20
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
* SEARCH AND DESTROY: the destruction of X enemy ships * HAUL: Move items from X to Y * ACQUIRE: Gather X minerals and deliver them at station Y * PRODUCE: Produce specific item X Y times and deliver them at station Z * PATROL: Score X kills in specific systems only * ESCORT: Make sure ship X gets from Y to Z unmolested
You know how hard it is to get a fight in alliance heald 0.0? People will kill their alts in noobships to do your "Search & Destroy" missions. Such missions would mean you would have to wait for someone to raid you and then have the balls to fight. Most alliance comqurable space is used by cowardly players who would dock up than do anything else.
All the rest of your missions are made obsolete by Jump Bridges. haul, escort, deliver etc etc. All these missions would turn out to be nothing more than someone undocking in a hauler and warping to a pos, and taking the jump bridge network to destination. Travel 50 jumps in 2 minutes in any hauler due to pos portals.
Only Acquire mission make sense, and even then, outpost owners would dip into the refinery tax fund to instacomplete these missions.
Missions in outposts is bad - NPC station only pls. We need to encorage people to do missions in dangerous space, not high sec carebear or 0.0 cearbear space.
FW style missions please, because teh FW missions are PROPER Pve in pvp space missions, but have them without 50 jump round trip. NPC 0.0 space so people can dock and buy stuff, unlike alliance 0.0 which is 100 jumps away from the nearist dockable station.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.12 10:48:00 -
[22]
The player made "missions" are terrible. And i'd rather they improved other aspects of 0.0 instead of making EVE more into missions online. Vote against the nano nerf! |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.08.12 11:08:00 -
[23]
A nice addition to 0.0 outpost would be to make the trade tax payable to the outpost owners instead of the Trade Commission. I was very surprised to learn that wasn't already implemented.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.12 12:10:00 -
[24]
Are these issues for voting in CSM meetings, or ideas for discussion and development? If they are the later, maybe the Jita park forum is more appropriate?
Take care, Arithron
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Lia Gaeren
Pole Dancing Vixens
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:10:00 -
[25]
I've always wondered about dynamic NPC agents (although only really from the point of view of high sec). If my corp owns a POS, and manages to get the corporate standing with a particular NPC corp above a certain level, then a poor quality level 1 agent from that corp visits the POS and hands out missions there - gradually improving in quality as the corp standing with his agency improves, eventually upgrading to a poor level 2, and so on.
But anyway - supported, because agents and missions in nil sec would stop the nil seccers whining about how broken risk vs reward is in Empire, thereby lessening the risk to my preferred occupation of high sec mission running :)
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Vio Geraci
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:18:00 -
[26]
If normal agents normally become migratory in some fashion, I could see the more heavily farmed ones meandering out into player 0.0 through some undefined mechanism. I could see them leaving, just as easily.
It's really a shame about L4s in highsec being the best risk:reward in the game, I'm sure if the game was done over again they would only be in low and nullsec. I suppose making 0.0 actually more profitable for Joe Pod Pilot would inflate the economy uncomfortably, but it is still irksome.
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Malcanis
We are Legend eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jamie Hara Kira Novia, your arguments are flawed and quite frankly dumb.
Originally by: Kira Novia
0.0 NPC Space = No alliance protection, the TRUE all-or-nothing lands. These are the badlands of New Eden.
Not true, there alliances in NPC 0.0 and they do protect players, to claim otherwise would be patently false. NPC 0.0 resembles empire high sec space more than player controlled 0.0 space because of the ability for anyone to dock at the stations present in NPC 0.0 space. The 'all or nothing' line of thought is correct if you apply it to docking and undocking ;).
Originally by: Kira Novia 0.0 Alliance-Held Space = A Shitload (Usually, Hopefully) of Backup / Lots-n-Lots of Guns!
0.0 space held by alliances does not equate guaranteed backup of any kind.
The amount of backup is not determined by whether or not you are in player controlled or NPC 0.0 space but by your alliance or corporation.
No sov = no cyno jammers, no new outposts.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Hamfast
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Arithron Are these issues for voting in CSM meetings, or ideas for discussion and development? If they are the later, maybe the Jita park forum is more appropriate?
Take care, Arithron
As Ankh is a member of the CSM, if her ideas get a good response, she can bring it up...
As for the idea, if an alliance can create an indestructible outpost, why can't they contract with NPC corps they are in good standing with to open a branch office?
You get 1 NPC Corp per station, they each bring their own benefits/draw backs (Some will refuse) better contracts bring higher level agents...
Not a bad idea really...
--------*****--------
"Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin |
Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:42:00 -
[29]
Quote: this is just a compilation of all the creative garbage floating around in my head, but why not post it and hope it will distil into something useful? Don't take it too seriously, but instead see if you can salvage some useful parts of it and incorporate it into different things. If you think it is promising, well I'd love to hear that too of course.
Just this part of the start gives the impression its an idea for development/discussion, not something that will potentially, in its current form, be coming up on the agenda! I'm well aware that she can raise it at a meeting...
Ari
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Danyael Tyren
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:52:00 -
[30]
This might be a good way to let 0.0 alliances get involved in Faction Wars. They pick a faction, then they get that faction's agents in their Sov4 constellations. Might be easier to put them out in space instead of a station, whichever is easier to make happen.
Would also be good to put some level 1-2 agents in just so new players in 0.0 who can't handle 0.0 belt rats yet have something they can do solo.
Mostly, it's just sad that Eve's endgame, 0.0 space, is so sparsely populated and some of the oldest pilots in the game never leave empire because the isk/safety ratio is too good there. There are obvious concerns about inflation, but this is a problem that needs to be addressed. ------ NAPs (nap means we wonĘt kill you today, maybe, but thatĘs all that means unless you help and contribute to coalition or being useful to us there is no obligation for us to keep that +standing |
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