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Grim Mercy
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.08 04:54:00 -
[1]
As you all may have noticed, CCP has started a new, vigorous ad campaign. I anticipate a huge influx of new players soon, as most of the people I've mentioned this game to have never even heard of it.
EvE has the coolest training system in the universe of MMOs, hands down (I don't have to grind? Sweet!). It also has the most involved, most player driven market, most dynamic PvP system, and most "customizable" way to play in the variety of ships and modules. Keeping old skill points for different ships means nerfs/buffs can be dealt with instead of rerolling (you can keep your hunter and your warlock ), including all modules you can use as well.
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players. There is no level cap, as no one can train every skill to V, so new accounts will never "tie" skill points with old accounts. Isk generation and hoardings will never be matched by new players either, unless said new player is given a few moons somewhere, or has the unmatched people skills to start an alliance that can attract the older sp players with the big guns (and that alliance has to get a foot in somewhere as well!).
So, how is CCP supposed to make the game attractive to new players? At the end of the day, CCP is a business, and in order to survive and grow, they need to attract new players. Simple as that. How are they supposed to make the game appealing to those starting against huge isk imbalances (remember when 1 million was a small fortune?), huge sp imbalances, and the steepest learning curve in MMO history? New players have big challenges against them to even have fun (losing isn't nearly as much fun as winning... argue with that), and if you don't have any fun, you won't stay. Also, every old player that leaves represents money lost to a company that needs it's player base to survive.
To bring up the upcoming changes, some things needed to be brought in line in the first place. As stated in the Dev blogs (listen to them or not, but the company's opinions are there for the reading), certain aspects of the game have changed over time, and away from the original concept. They're changing it back, and aggressively- two huge proposals were announced within two weeks of each other.
One fact remains: things are changing. I can only surmise that CCP is anticipating an influx of new players, and if they want to make it better so as to retain them, then that's what they're going to do. I just wonder if the oldest players (you know, the ones with all the advantages) represent the loudest whiners against the new proposed changes.
All things considered, I think CCP has done an amazing job with this game so far. I trust their vision to make it even better, and if that means changing things to represent what it was supposed to be in the first place, then more power to them. When they created the game, I'm sure they did it with the idea of attracting as many customers as they could reasonably support, not just a small, select niche market.
tl;dr version: Nobody is making you pay a subscription. Shut up, or get out.
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Kame Malice
Minmatar
Mitsukashi Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2008.08.08 04:59:00 -
[2]
Your logic is calmer and more collected than my logic, and a bit more in depth... but has the same end-of-line... so obviously I must support you! (That, and you posted with a main!)
/signed
This is a signature, not some random addition to my reply. |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:00:00 -
[3]
The biggest problems n00bs have revolves around overpopulation and overcrowding. Not SP so much I don't think. As for the rest, I agree.
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Sythyss
Twilight Trading
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:05:00 -
[4]
you're an idiot. eve's skill system is the best I've seen at accomdating new players vs. old players. Training a skill to level 1 takes less than an hour. Let's say I get a 5% increase in damage. Now a vet trains that same skill and gets the very same 5% increase in damage, but it takes him 30 days to do it since he's training level V. Sure the vet has a bit of edge, but new players can quickly train skills to III or IV, while older players are all training V.
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NoOth3rDestiny
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:06:00 -
[5]
I agree with the OP. Things are changing so the company can retain as many old and new subscriptions as possible, but also stay true to their vision.
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Darkwolf
Caldari
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sythyss
Training a skill to level 1 takes less than an hour. Let's say I get a 5% increase in damage. Now a vet trains that same skill and gets the very same 5% increase in damage, but it takes him 30 days to do it since he's training level V.
The vet actually gets slightly less than a 5% increase over his previous damage from training 4 to 5.
Veteran: 1.25 / 1.2 = 1.0417 ~= 4.17% increase
Noob: 1.05 / 1.0 = 1.05 = 5% increase.
SP differences aren't as big a deal as people think they are. We've been having this same tired argument since 2003.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Grim Mercy
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players. There is no level cap, as no one can train every skill to V, so new accounts will never "tie" skill points with old accounts. Isk generation and hoardings will never be matched by new players either, unless said new player is given a few moons somewhere, or has the unmatched people skills to start an alliance that can attract the older sp players with the big guns (and that alliance has to get a foot in somewhere as well!).
And thats the major flaw in your thinking. After you reach 10-15mil SP in one ship type you CAN NOT get better in it. You can only branch into new race/ship type. Thus younger player (1,5 year lets say) and 5 year player will be EXACTLY SAME effective with one ship class. 5 year player has only an advantage of ability to chose multiple ship types.
Proof? My 1,5 year old alt can easily take on my 3,5 year main in almost all shiptype combat (cruiser/bc/hac/command/BS). She only lacks capital ship skills (was not supposed to train em anyways) and friggie combat (but thats like month tops to catch up).
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Grim Mercy
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darkwolf
Originally by: Sythyss
Training a skill to level 1 takes less than an hour. Let's say I get a 5% increase in damage. Now a vet trains that same skill and gets the very same 5% increase in damage, but it takes him 30 days to do it since he's training level V.
The vet actually gets slightly less than a 5% increase over his previous damage from training 4 to 5.
Veteran: 1.25 / 1.2 = 1.0417 ~= 4.17% increase
Noob: 1.05 / 1.0 = 1.05 = 5% increase.
SP differences aren't as big a deal as people think they are. We've been having this same tired argument since 2003.
Don't forget minimum skill requirements to use certain modules, and the skill-intensive process of training for t2 ships. I will lose in a frigate to you in an Assault ship. I will lose in a cruiser to you in a HAC. I will lose in a BC to you in a Command ship. Or, if you prefer, My t1 fit cruiser will lose to your t2 fit cruiser.
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:23:00 -
[9]
These threads have been posted since I started, oh so long ago. Yet noobs still kill vets and the game continues to grow.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba
Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero!  /me bows
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:27:00 -
[10]
Solution: add a new "server" i.e. shard and make it the default for new characters (but allow them to start on TQ as well if the player really wants to).
IBT "EVE shall never be sharded" religious freak crowd.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Grim Mercy
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Grim Mercy
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players. There is no level cap, as no one can train every skill to V, so new accounts will never "tie" skill points with old accounts. Isk generation and hoardings will never be matched by new players either, unless said new player is given a few moons somewhere, or has the unmatched people skills to start an alliance that can attract the older sp players with the big guns (and that alliance has to get a foot in somewhere as well!).
And thats the major flaw in your thinking. After you reach 10-15mil SP in one ship type you CAN NOT get better in it. You can only branch into new race/ship type. Thus younger player (1,5 year lets say) and 5 year player will be EXACTLY SAME effective with one ship class. 5 year player has only an advantage of ability to chose multiple ship types.
Proof? My 1,5 year old alt can easily take on my 3,5 year main in almost all shiptype combat (cruiser/bc/hac/command/BS). She only lacks capital ship skills (was not supposed to train em anyways) and friggie combat (but thats like month tops to catch up).
The point I was trying to make here was that a 70mil sp character may have some industry skills that can help him make isk while he's not even online, representing yet another advantage. He may be able to build his own ships, and at reduced cost than buying them on the market, so his losses don't mean quit as bad a hit to the wallet as the noob with limited isk-earning potential.
This character is just a little over a year old (and the only character I have, other than an 800k sp alt to check prices in Jita) and I've just now come into my own for isk generation. I spent the first few months toggling back and forth between learning skills and basic PvP skills, and concentrating soley on PvP skills for the past 8 months or so. I just now started to learn how to use and abuse the market, and got some industry skills going (refining V and Production efficiency V programed to finish next week) so I can maximize my profits of off salvage. I started this guy off as a pure PvP character, but was part of the whole BRUCE fiasco, so retreated to hi-sec to learn how to mission (which is boring, but I like it I guess... pays the bills, you know?) and I get my PvP fix from FW (which is pure carnage, and I love it).
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:35:00 -
[12]
I don't see how your having fewer SP than me or anyone else impedes your ability to play the game. Can you please explain?
Originally by: Grim Mercy
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players.
Like others have said, perfect skills can be trained fairly quickly for various different professions. Older players only have an advantage in choice, not in any particular field.
There's a little place called the Character Bazaar, and you can buy characters with 50mil SP. If you put in enough effort to pony up the ISK you can easily buy one.
Furthermore, as you will quickly realize, EVE is about having large numbers of allies, not about having an extra 10mil SP.
Originally by: Grim Mercy
How are they supposed to make the game appealing to those starting against huge isk imbalances (remember when 1 million was a small fortune?), huge sp imbalances, and the steepest learning curve in MMO history?
Hmm...for the same reasons it was appealing to anyone that joined after beta?
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
I don't see how your having fewer SP than me or anyone else impedes your ability to play the game. Can you please explain?
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
Quote:
Hmm...for the same reasons it was appealing to anyone that joined after beta?
It has got less appealing every day for anyone who joined after beta.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Clueless Alt
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Clueless Alt on 08/08/2008 05:56:33
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
I don't see how your having fewer SP than me or anyone else impedes your ability to play the game. Can you please explain?
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
I did, with less then 1M SP. ;) and went into 0.0 as soon as I could tackle.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
I don't see how your having fewer SP than me or anyone else impedes your ability to play the game. Can you please explain?
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
Make friends, show that even with 2mil SP you are able to play your role in PVP and ya can get even into "15mil SP only PVP corp". I know i already helped to get friend into even tho he lacked 5mil till the "bar" - now hes pretty good at pvp, surely able to get to any corp he wants.
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.08.08 05:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
The OP's claim was that simply having less SP than the current leading vets somehow made the game impossible to enjoy for noobs, regardless of whether you have 30mil and they have 60mil or if you have 15mil and they have 45mil. This is silly.
Try getting 10mil SP (this takes the same time for everyone) and then join a decent pvp corp. They will be happy to take you.
The other reason they don't take 2mil SPers is that they are probably noobs at gameplay - they lack game knowledge.
Originally by: Pan Crastus
It has got less appealing every day for anyone who joined after beta.
Do you even know who has the most SP in EVE? It's some 110mil+ science character, who has a bunch of science and industry skills that aren't even useful when you have all of them together (all science skills at 5...woohoo, you can invent everything in the game, using your whopping 10 total labslots). Are you really envious of him? Is he ever going to beat you in a fight? Of course not. Could you match his ISK/slot*hour made on invention in a few months? Yes you can - even faster if you have a couple accounts.
Noobs have it better now than any vet ever did. There are corps you can join that will basically bribe you 1-10mil ISK just for JOINING. In beta you had to work your way up from a frig - you guys can just rely on veterans to hold your hand the whole way.
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Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:06:00 -
[17]
CCP: Don't worry, they can always catch up if they specialize.
(6 months later)
CCP: We're nerfing this entire line of ships your specialized for, sorry Mr new player.
Don't worry, SP doesn't make a difference when you encourage pure skillblobbing as long as you can lock the called target and f1-f8 you're good.
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Grim Mercy
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:07:00 -
[18]
After a little over a year, I've got 13 million skill points. I didn't roll Achura, and I still can't afford the good implants, so all things considered I think I've done ok with myself.
As someone stated above me, 15(?) million skill points in any given ship will give you the exact same combat stats as an old character. Does this figure include all the SPs involved in training certain t2 hulls? If it does (and I can fly one race's t2 frigs and cruisers), then that means after an entire year, I'm almost and even match, and combat with me will come down to a matter of personal skill instead of skill points.
An entire year.
So, I think my new-vs-old character argument has some validity. This game is intimidating, and not for the impatient. But the point of this thread is supposed to be about is the new changes they're making, and why. I personally think the impetus for the mechanics changes (yes, the speed nerf and the suicide-ganking nerf) is ultimately a better environment for new players.
If it takes someone a year to get into a nano-ed cruiser, and I don't know how long to make generate enough isk to support that PvP style, I think that will scare new players into thinking "What? I can't fly the only really powerful, small-gang-viable ship class in the game for a year?" Or maybe something like "I mined for 3 days straight to get into this Retriever, and some 2mil sp alt came and blew me up in a frigate before CONCORD could even show up?" These are the things CCP is trying to move away from, not only because it will only help the subscription base, but also because these things were never intended in the first place.
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Kaivos
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:33:00 -
[19]
Links to the ads please.
Has there been any official discussion of what they are about to do to improve the new player experience?
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Sythyss
Twilight Trading
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Grim Mercy
Originally by: Darkwolf
Originally by: Sythyss
Training a skill to level 1 takes less than an hour. Let's say I get a 5% increase in damage. Now a vet trains that same skill and gets the very same 5% increase in damage, but it takes him 30 days to do it since he's training level V.
The vet actually gets slightly less than a 5% increase over his previous damage from training 4 to 5.
Veteran: 1.25 / 1.2 = 1.0417 ~= 4.17% increase
Noob: 1.05 / 1.0 = 1.05 = 5% increase.
SP differences aren't as big a deal as people think they are. We've been having this same tired argument since 2003.
Don't forget minimum skill requirements to use certain modules, and the skill-intensive process of training for t2 ships. I will lose in a frigate to you in an Assault ship. I will lose in a cruiser to you in a HAC. I will lose in a BC to you in a Command ship. Or, if you prefer, My t1 fit cruiser will lose to your t2 fit cruiser.
ok, seriously. when do you ever play this game 1v1? you're ALWAYS in a gang.
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Sythyss
Twilight Trading
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grim Mercy
Edited by: Grim Mercy on 08/08/2008 05:36:35
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Grim Mercy
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players. There is no level cap, as no one can train every skill to V, so new accounts will never "tie" skill points with old accounts. Isk generation and hoardings will never be matched by new players either, unless said new player is given a few moons somewhere, or has the unmatched people skills to start an alliance that can attract the older sp players with the big guns (and that alliance has to get a foot in somewhere as well!).
And thats the major flaw in your thinking. After you reach 10-15mil SP in one ship type you CAN NOT get better in it. You can only branch into new race/ship type. Thus younger player (1,5 year lets say) and 5 year player will be EXACTLY SAME effective with one ship class. 5 year player has only an advantage of ability to chose multiple ship types.
Proof? My 1,5 year old alt can easily take on my 3,5 year main in almost all shiptype combat (cruiser/bc/hac/command/BS). She only lacks capital ship skills (was not supposed to train em anyways) and friggie combat (but thats like month tops to catch up).
The point I was trying to make here was that a 70mil sp character may have some industry skills that can help him make isk while he's not even online, representing yet another advantage. He may be able to build his own ships, and at reduced cost than buying them on the market, so his losses don't mean quit as bad a hit to the wallet as the noob with limited isk-earning potential.
This character is just a little over a year old (and the only character I have, other than an 800k sp alt to check prices in Jita) and I've just now come into my own for isk generation. I spent the first few months toggling back and forth between learning skills and basic PvP skills, and concentrating soley on PvP skills for the past 8 months or so. I just now started to learn how to use and abuse the market, and got some industry skills going (refining V and Production efficiency V programed to finish next week) so I can maximize my profits of off salvage. I started this guy off as a pure PvP character, but was part of the whole BRUCE fiasco, so retreated to hi-sec to learn how to mission (which is boring, but I like it I guess... pays the bills, you know?) and I get my PvP fix from FW (which is pure carnage, and I love it).
Someone who already has all those industry skills at V has a clear advantage over me, isk wise. So does the guy with all of his combat skills at V (I'm getting there, but most are at IV now), PvP wise. I feel like I'm just now becoming viable...and having the time of my life whenever I feel like sitting at the computer for an hour or two. But I also remember, not too long ago, feeling like I had no way to surmount the huge disadvantages I had against older characters.
In all fairness, that lesson does take a while to learn.
yes, of course someone who has been playing the game for YEARS will have more isk, more knowledge, and more wealth. did they not deserve it? You can start learning and build up to that point as well.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:39:00 -
[22]
joined pvp corp at 2 weeks old char, had first bs kil in 3 weeks old char. Am i diffrent or other people are uber fail?
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
The OP's claim was that simply having less SP than the current leading vets somehow made the game impossible to enjoy for noobs, regardless of whether you have 30mil and they have 60mil or if you have 15mil and they have 45mil. This is silly.
No, the claim was that they could not compete with older players.
Quote:
Try getting 10mil SP (this takes the same time for everyone) and then join a decent pvp corp. They will be happy to take you.
Takes 1-1.5 years.
Quote:
Noobs have it better now than any vet ever did. There are corps you can join that will basically bribe you 1-10mil ISK just for JOINING. In beta you had to work your way up from a frig - you guys can just rely on veterans to hold your hand the whole way.
Wow I'm sure I absolutely want to be in those corps, mining all day ;-).
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
joined pvp corp at 2 weeks old char, had first bs kil in 3 weeks old char. Am i diffrent or other people are uber fail?
At a guess, both you and your corp are uber fail. You are probably empire griefers and not PVPers.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Benedic
CCP: Don't worry, they can always catch up if they specialize.
(6 months later)
CCP: We're nerfing this entire line of ships your specialized for, sorry Mr new player.
This. The 70m SP players with all T2 gun/missile skills and all races cruisers L5 will have no problems with whatever nerfs.
Quote:
Don't worry, SP doesn't make a difference when you encourage pure skillblobbing as long as you can lock the called target and f1-f8 you're good.
It does make a difference when the FC shouts at you for being the only guy in a T1 frig, destroyer or cruiser. ;-)
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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zuul'a
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:51:00 -
[26]
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Holy Church Of Garmonism
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:52:00 -
[27]
What's wrong with T1 cruisers? 
You're not afraid of the dark, are you? |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Grim Mercy
However, this system has one fatal flaw: New players, no matter how much effort they put into the game, will never, ever, be competitive with older players. There is no level cap, as no one can train every skill to V, so new accounts will never "tie" skill points with old accounts. Isk generation and hoardings will never be matched by new players either, unless said new player is given a few moons somewhere, or has the unmatched people skills to start an alliance that can attract the older sp players with the big guns (and that alliance has to get a foot in somewhere as well!).
And thats the major flaw in your thinking. After you reach 10-15mil SP in one ship type you CAN NOT get better in it. You can only branch into new race/ship type. Thus younger player (1,5 year lets say) and 5 year player will be EXACTLY SAME effective with one ship class. 5 year player has only an advantage of ability to chose multiple ship types.
Proof? My 1,5 year old alt can easily take on my 3,5 year main in almost all shiptype combat (cruiser/bc/hac/command/BS). She only lacks capital ship skills (was not supposed to train em anyways) and friggie combat (but thats like month tops to catch up).
Yup. This char has the problem that there's almost nothing else I want to train now. There's still skills I don't have but they are for things I don't need or am not interested in. In effect for the last six months I've been picking skills almost at random and my char is as good at what he does as he was six months ago.
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Benedic
CCP: Don't worry, they can always catch up if they specialize.
(6 months later)
CCP: We're nerfing this entire line of ships your specialized for, sorry Mr new player.
Try not training for the FOTM
Originally by: Grim Mercy
After a little over a year, I've got 13 million skill points. I didn't roll Achura, and I still can't afford the good implants, so all things considered I think I've done ok with myself.
As someone stated above me, 15(?) million skill points in any given ship will give you the exact same combat stats as an old character. Does this figure include all the SPs involved in training certain t2 hulls? If it does (and I can fly one race's t2 frigs and cruisers), then that means after an entire year, I'm almost and even match, and combat with me will come down to a matter of personal skill instead of skill points.
Now you're complaining about the slow rate of skill training, not the fact that you are forever behind veterans. In EVE, if you ever find yourself fighting in an "even match" you're doing something wrong. This is because what matters is largely intel, morale, and numbers. Guess what two newer players with plenty of L4 high-rank skills can do against a veteran with plenty of L5 high-rank skills? Slaughter Him!
Originally by: Grim Mercy
If it takes someone a year to get into a nano-ed cruiser, and I don't know how long to make generate enough isk to support that PvP style, I think that will scare new players into thinking "What? I can't fly the only really powerful, small-gang-viable ship class in the game for a year?" Or maybe something like "I mined for 3 days straight to get into this Retriever, and some 2mil sp alt came and blew me up in a frigate before CONCORD could even show up?" These are the things CCP is trying to move away from, not only because it will only help the subscription base, but also because these things were never intended in the first place.
You can fly the ship earlier, you just won't have L5s in everything, which you can easily compensate for with higher numbers. Your recruiting ability, wealth-generating ability (largely independent of SP, especially with scams and trade), morale boosting ability, and game knowledge in general will determine your success far more than SP.
EVE is harsh but that's what makes it unique and great. The fact that it's difficult to succeed without good game knowledge makes it that much more rewarding to learn.
Suicide ganking does seem a bit silly, although I really think CCP should just warn players, like it does before they enter lowsec, about ganking.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.08 06:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Try to get into a decent PVP corp with 2m SP ...
The OP's claim was that simply having less SP than the current leading vets somehow made the game impossible to enjoy for noobs, regardless of whether you have 30mil and they have 60mil or if you have 15mil and they have 45mil. This is silly.
No, the claim was that they could not compete with older players.
Quote:
Try getting 10mil SP (this takes the same time for everyone) and then join a decent pvp corp. They will be happy to take you.
Takes 1-1.5 years.
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Noobs have it better now than any vet ever did. There are corps you can join that will basically bribe you 1-10mil ISK just for JOINING. In beta you had to work your way up from a frig - you guys can just rely on veterans to hold your hand the whole way.
Wow I'm sure I absolutely want to be in those corps, mining all day ;-).
10mln sp takes 6 months.
Pan Crastus if you suck in pvp it doesnt mean that others does. Anyway you fail at this game if you took 1-1,5 year to get 10mln sp. |
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