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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.07.24 22:52:00 -
[1]
first things first, i know several pilots that can use an Eos and an Astarte, and regardless of skills, the most common choice is the astarte. I ask why?
I remember the eos from before the bandwith nerf, when they could field 5 heavy drones and an array of turrets. i admit this is highly overpowered, but once the nerf hit, it hit hard, taking away the use of 2 heavy drones and lowering its turrets to 5.
now it seems that the Eos is just a highly expensive version of a myrmidon with a better tank and a bonus to guns, and not even that, because it has no bonus to drone damage.
Quote: Developer: CreoDron
As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Eos can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones.
i think that the Eos's main problem lies in its bonuses. its current bonuses are rather misguided for a drone boat, and it looks like its trying to mix an Ishtar and a brutix, but failing at both.
Quote: Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: +50 m3 extra Drone Bay space and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Information Warfare Links per level
i think that this should be changed. remove the turret bonus, and give it a drone damage bonus. make this ship a bigger, badder version of the Ishtar, like other command ships, which are merely bigger versions of their HAC counterparts.
amarr Sac--->damnation (HAM's and big tank) Zealot-->absolution (lasers and damage)
Caldari Eagle-->Vulture (sniper rails) Cerb --> nighthawk (heavy missiles)
Gallente Deimos--> Astarte (OMGWTFBBQ blasters ) Ishtar--> nothing really, the only bonus it has in common is the drone bay size one
for my proposed fix of this ship, i think the only thing that needs to change is the bandwidth size and the bonuses, maybe remove a turret slot. this is a creodron boat, it should have the bonuses all the other ones have. why it has only 75 bandwidth, enough for only 3 heavy drones at once, i have no idea.
TL:DR - the eos is a broken ship that tries to span across 2 different weapon types, and fails at both. take away the hybrid bonus and make it a drone damage bonus, and give it back the 125 bandwith it so desperatly needs.
anyway, let the flames begin
(btw, i couldnt see the difference between the minnie command ships, i dont usually see too many of them except for a speed link claymore) ----------------------- im in ur system, incapping ur cynojammer |
Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 22:56:00 -
[2]
You forgot to mention that the astarte never got the agility increase the deimos did and hence is less agile than a bs. In fact a harbinger with 1600mm plate is quicker than an asterte, more than one has died to a harb because it simply couldn't catch it, yay ccp built baster boat \o/. -------------------------
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Greyform
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:11:00 -
[3]
I normally canŠt be bothered to post about anything on the forums but damn i agree 100% with the op that the Eos has been nerfed beyond utility... Simply put when the nerf hit i basically went to my skill plan and deleted the whole command ship skill plan i had and forgot about them I agree it was overpowered before but they should have removed 2 turret slots and a high slot if needed but 75 bandwith?? on a drone boat?? What am i supposed to work for when i finish skilling up for my ishtar? Astartes are capable of awesome dmg but for 0.0 life the short range is a real b*tch and not as usefull as a drone boat in gangs imo.
All i can say is Gallente pilots, drone boat lovers speak out now so something can be done about it or itŠll just be a useless ship forever...
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:34:00 -
[4]
is useless
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Annowyn
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:48:00 -
[5]
Fit gang mods and go fly it like a claymore.
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Captain Munchies
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Annowyn Fit gang mods and go fly it like a claymore.
last time i checked, the claymore was 100% dedicated to a weapon type. Eos isnt, it wastes its bonuses on 2 different weapon types
------------------------- LEAVE ME ALONE!!! |
Kuzya Morozov
Gallente L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Captain Munchies
Originally by: Annowyn Fit gang mods and go fly it like a claymore.
last time i checked, the claymore was 100% dedicated to a weapon type. Eos isnt, it wastes its bonuses on 2 different weapon types
That and claymore has a much, much more commonly needed bonus.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Originally by: Captain Munchies
Originally by: Annowyn Fit gang mods and go fly it like a claymore.
last time i checked, the claymore was 100% dedicated to a weapon type. Eos isnt, it wastes its bonuses on 2 different weapon types
That and claymore has a much, much more commonly needed bonus.
For now. If ships were stocks and I were an investor, I'd put half my funds into a damnation...
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Originally by: Captain Munchies
Originally by: Annowyn Fit gang mods and go fly it like a claymore.
last time i checked, the claymore was 100% dedicated to a weapon type. Eos isnt, it wastes its bonuses on 2 different weapon types
That and claymore has a much, much more commonly needed bonus.
For now. If ships were stocks and I were an investor, I'd put half my funds into a damnation...
Right, so would I, but speed/scram/web bonusing is still better than EW bonusing.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:20:00 -
[10]
I started a thread 7-10 months ago about boosting the eos and still leaving it "nerfed" compared to what it was 2 years ago.
The end result of the thread was a lot of complaining and whining by Eos victims, anti-Eos people, anti-Gallente people, and so on about how I/we (the supportive/constructive posters) were trying to just make it a "solowtfpwnmobile" again.
I repeatedly called on one of the loudest whiners to substantiate claims and provide hard, and provable, numbers and the failure to do so was massive.
The eos should have at least as much bandwidth as the hyperion, to be quite honest.
As things stand the myrmidon used to be out of line with the flavor text/description provided for it and now it is more in line with it. The eos used to be in line with its flavor text but now it no longer is.
I guess it balances out in that sense but meh, doesn't really balance out any other way.
Frankly, the best use I've found for the eos is to go ratting in areas where there the NPCs are kinetic/thermal and are susceptible to kinetic/thermal DPS. Put on 3 rails, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, 1 MAR2, 1 DCU2, 3 T2 cargo expanders, and you've got yourself a moderately decent ratter/looter/salvager. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shereza I started a thread 7-10 months ago about boosting the eos and still leaving it "nerfed" compared to what it was 2 years ago.
The end result of the thread was a lot of complaining and whining by Eos victims, anti-Eos people, anti-Gallente people, and so on about how I/we (the supportive/constructive posters) were trying to just make it a "solowtfpwnmobile" again.
I repeatedly called on one of the loudest whiners to substantiate claims and provide hard, and provable, numbers and the failure to do so was massive.
The eos should have at least as much bandwidth as the hyperion, to be quite honest.
As things stand the myrmidon used to be out of line with the flavor text/description provided for it and now it is more in line with it. The eos used to be in line with its flavor text but now it no longer is.
I guess it balances out in that sense but meh, doesn't really balance out any other way.
Frankly, the best use I've found for the eos is to go ratting in areas where there the NPCs are kinetic/thermal and are susceptible to kinetic/thermal DPS. Put on 3 rails, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, 1 MAR2, 1 DCU2, 3 T2 cargo expanders, and you've got yourself a moderately decent ratter/looter/salvager.
im not saying this for ratting in kin/therm areas. im talking about uses in general. as it stands the Eos cannot rat in any other damage type region as effectively, and cannot pvp as well as the astarte or any other command ship tbh.
also, this is a command ship. it is supposed to be THE pinnacle of gang warfare, where they can both deal out the pain and take it. the fact that its DPS is less than or equal to a myrmidon with blasters is obscene. for the price paid for it, people should be able to do something effectively.
----------------------- im in ur system, incapping ur cynojammer |
Shereza
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: AdmiralDovolski
im not saying this for ratting in kin/therm areas. im talking about uses in general. as it stands the Eos cannot rat in any other damage type region as effectively, and cannot pvp as well as the astarte or any other command ship tbh.
also, this is a command ship. it is supposed to be THE pinnacle of gang warfare, where they can both deal out the pain and take it. the fact that its DPS is less than or equal to a myrmidon with blasters is obscene. for the price paid for it, people should be able to do something effectively.
Actually, the eos can likely rat in any damage zone effectively, though not as well in minmatar/angel space.
Oh, granted that the non-drone weapons will suffer in other areas but from a purely tanking standpoint it's got the naturally high EM resistance of armor and high base thermal for sansha/blood rats and the higher kinetic resistance to help with angel rats.
Outside of a PvE perspective, however, you are right about the eos not cutting it in PvP, but you are wrong about why in my opinion.
The problem is not the DPS the eos puts out, far from it. In fact read the first couple lines of any fleet command ship's flavor text.
"Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of turning the tide in large engagements. "
Unless I am mistaken as things stand the eos is not particularly capable of doing that when compared to other command ships.
If the eos could, for example, deploy as many drones as it has bandwidth but only directly control up to 5 at once (this means set 5 lights to assist a tackler, 5 lights to assist someone else, and keep 5 lights for itself to directly control) that would help.
If the eos had a bonus to non-DPS drone bandwidth so that it could field 5 heavy damper/webber/painter/neutralizer/ECM drones or 5 heavy lostics drones but only 3 heavy combat drones it would help.
If information warfare gang links were more effective (better bonuses, more useful bonuses, whatever) it would help.
TBH, I'll be willing to spot the eos 2 more turret hardpoints to get 25mb bandwidth apiece. It'll make the ship back into a drone boat and keep people from whining and insisting that it is, from a DPS perspective, over-powered.
As it stands, however, the astarte should be the gallente command ship DPS king, not the eos which was never intended to fill that role. After all, the vulture can't put out more DPS than the nighthawk, and bsaed on my own plottings for an alt the absolution clearly puts out significantly more DPS than the damnation which can't even out-DPS the sacrilege, nor really should it. After all, the eagle can put out more DPS than the vulture.
The Eos needs one or more non-DPS boosts to make it the ship it's supposed to be. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Wideen
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:23:00 -
[13]
It should be given a drone bonus, removal of turret bonuses and some turret hp, much like the ishtar, and then it will be good! oh yeah and bandwidth should be 125m3.
Because seriously, it's just not fun to fly in its current standard. And 5 x ogre II even with CS lvl 5 (with that 10% dmg bonus to drones) shouldn't make it overpowered in any way (about what, 450 dps?). It'll be like a tanky ishtar...
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Taco Raptorian
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Posted - 2008.07.25 06:32:00 -
[14]
Yes, make it a real drone boat as it should be and replace the turret damage bonus so it is high slot independent like the Myrmidon.
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Gabriel Virtus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 08:25:00 -
[15]
I couldn't agree more. I don't think anyone is trying to claim that the Eos and the Myrmidon were not overpowered before and I don't think anyone is legitimately suggesting the ships go back to that sort of bandwidth, but it is a complete joke for battle cruiser sized "drone boats" created by a Creodrone are are only able to field as many drones a cruiser. I suggest a few changes:
Give the Myrmidon 95 bandwidth and leave the bonuses to the ship as is.
Give the Eos 95 bandwidth, a slightly large base drone bay and change the bonus to 10% bonus to drone damage (like every other drone boat the gallente field). Eos sucks at the niche it is supposed to fill.
I know CCP hates gallente for some reason, with the nerfs to drone bandwidth, screwing damps, and then to cap it all off... DID YOU SEE WHAT THEY DID TO THE HELIOS
flame on -Gabriel
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PR Hough
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.07.25 11:34:00 -
[16]
Would be nice to see the Eos worth flying in pvp again.
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RD Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:36:00 -
[17]
signed
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Boz Well
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:38:00 -
[18]
Probably gonna need a few more Amarr buff patches before they have a chance to look at minor buffs to Gallente and Minmatar. Not quite enough Caldari/Amarr 'i win' buttons yet.
But I'd agree, give Eos and I think myrm 95 or 110 bandwidth. Take some turrets if you have to.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:59:00 -
[19]
It was a crap command ship before the nerf, and it's an even worse one now. Plus it's a drone boat, unable to utilize it's drones. Nice.
Has anyone seen one out in space, of late? Nuff said.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
PR Hough
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.08.19 14:37:00 -
[20]
cough |
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.08.19 14:51:00 -
[21]
The only other command ship that gets any damage bonus is the Claymore, mostly because projectile DPS is sub-par without anything.
No, we're not going to improve the Eos's damage, it's not there to do damage. We could perhaps talk about improving the gang bonsues it provides though. If you want a drone boat, you have perfectly capable drone boats one class above and one class below. |
Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.19 15:06:00 -
[22]
Eos is still good, its the highest damage fleet command ship, it could use a 95 m3 drones bay (3x heavies 2x meds) or some kind of small boost though because lets face it, gallente are getting shafted a bit lately.
HOWEVER remember in comparison the other fleet commands are not supposed to be pvp pwnmobiles, the claymore and eos are still king of the hill for fleet commands and the eos pulls ahead on damage by quite a bit, tried to kill anything lately in a damnation or vulture? it'll only take you until downtime.
ps if they ever change the claymore I'm quitting and taking all over 9000 of my accounts with me >:-( |
Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.08.19 17:03:00 -
[23]
It seems like for the most part whenever I look at a gallente ship now days I always end up thinking the same thing. Your better off in a domi... The entire gallente race more or less revolves around 1 ship. Gal recons = Suck. Gal command ships = Are out done by BS's. Gal Hacs = Out done by BC's and the one decent one we had is going to suck after the nano nerf. We have one good BS (The domi) a high damage glass cannon BC (Brutix) and thats about it. Gallente needs some love. |
Webster Carr
Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2008.08.19 17:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Webster Carr on 19/08/2008 17:39:15 I think part of the problem is that the BC drone boats, both the Myr and the Eos, have the same drone bandwith as the Vexor their cruiser counterpart. Would it be that much of an issue to simply make a slight adjustment and give both 100m3 bandwith? It may not seem like much but I think it would be an easy fix.
Peace, Webb
P.S. If we can have the Ishtar with a full 125m3 bay I don't see why we couldn't give the BCs 100... |
Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.08.19 17:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Webster Carr Edited by: Webster Carr on 19/08/2008 17:39:15 I think part of the problem is that the BC drone boats, both the Myr and the Eos, have the same drone bandwith as the Vexor their cruiser counterpart. Would it be that much of an issue to simply make a slight adjustment and give both 100m3 bandwith? It may not seem like much but I think it would be an easy fix.
Peace, Webb
P.S. If we can have the Ishtar with a full 125m3 bay I don't see why we couldn't give the BCs 100...
Agreed. I say make it more or less impossible to fit any kind of turret DPS on the EOS and give it 125m3 bandwidth. Drone ships should be drone ships and turret ships should be turret ships. |
slothe
Caldari Murky Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 17:55:00 -
[26]
eos shines in 2 roles-
1.as a true gang module fitted gang ship with caldari ecm boats (wtf caldari)
2. as a pve ship.
both it can be superb, but anything ouside these roles rubbish. but stop moaning it is good at somethings, just not what YOU want it to be good at.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.19 19:09:00 -
[27]
Its a fleet command. Stop whining because it isnt as good as a field command. I do agree that the astarte is a bit slow.. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.08.19 19:17:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 19/08/2008 19:19:49
Originally by: Firkragg Its a fleet command. Stop whining because it isnt as good as a field command.
A Claymore fit for fleet boosting has the DPS of a Recon, on a good day. And that's only thanks to it's drone bay and 3 missile hardpoints. Eos was WAY overpowered for its class with 5 heavy drones, before any gunnery was added, pathetic it may be compared to the Field CS. It still gets 10mbit more bandwidth than any other Fleet Command ship.
I agree though, that the warfare bonuses the Eos can do are pretty uninspiring. Gallente CS pilots should get capacitor boosting warfare mods, not EW mods. I'm thinking something like 1 for boosting charge rate, 1 for boosting capacity, and the 3rd one could reduce the amount of capacitor that a enemy Nos or Neut can zap.
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enymphia
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.19 19:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Firkragg Its a fleet command. Stop whining because it isnt as good as a field command. I do agree that the astarte is a bit slow..
DUUUUUDE Yes it is but the difference between the EOS and the other fleet command ships is that the EOS can't tank for shit, unlike the other fleet command ships which can field great tanks.. |
Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2008.08.19 20:02:00 -
[30]
You guys are SERIOUSLY trying to argue that a ship that gives GANG bonuses to EWAR is a PvE ship? |
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