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CSM - CCP Meeting 001 - 0036 Small Freighters

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Author	Topic
Lrrp Drahathinar Tribe	Posted - 2008.07.12 13:09:00 - [31] I like the concept of a larger hauler as it pertains to high sec POS's. The thing that holds me back from setting one up is all the time it takes to haul fuel for it. 150-300k space would make it fueling POS's a lot easier without the expense of buying a freighter. So thumbs up. And judging by the comments here I don't see anyone really against the idea.
Ava Santiago	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Ava Santiago on 12/07/2008 20:24:32 I'd like to see a big brother to the Transport ships.. with about 10 times the base space. With a base around 40,000-75,000 m3 and 10 medium/low slots, the ship would be interesting to haul in. Assuming you maxed cargo expanders and rigs, the hold size might approach but not exceed the racial jump freighter. The lack of ability to "fit" a freighter makes the ship a known gank target. Player time spent discussing ship fittings is entertaining, without the ability to fit the ship that aspect of the game is lost. I'm also a fan of massive tanks, but I suspect most pirates are not. In the end, the space vs. tank issue will need to be balanced. Right now, the freighter tank is too small for the value of cargo it can haul. If this ship fits in a similar vein, with out the ability to build a powerful tank, then the ship will not be well received. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Narffy Imperial Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.13 01:38:00 - [33] Why not fix the Freighter/Jump Freighter first? Slots should be given to these ships before coming out with another ship that is intended to carry cargo. Coming out with more ships while not addressing the issue with these is simply dancing around this issue. One of the great things in EVE is that ships are very customizable. CCP even provided rigs so we can further customize our ships. Then you suddenly hop in your freighter and it's like hitting a brick wall...you can't do ANYTHING to customize it at all! These 900 mil ships are as pathetic as shuttles. I would like CCP to do the following to freighters/jump freighters before releasing another cargo ship: 1. Decrease the cargo space by around 50% to 70%. 2. Give them mid/low/rig slots. 3. Make it so the cargo space with all T2 expanders and optimization rigs equals the cargo space of current ships. 4. Increase base velocity so it will match current ships' velocity when setup with expanders. 5. Allow these ships the flexibility of fitting defensive, speed, etc. modules. The above changes bring these ships more in line with all the other ships in EVE. It gives us choices. Hostiles don't automatically know our ships stats. We can setup to tank with the ships well enough to prevent getting suicide killed.
The Racketeer	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:04:00 - [34] the planned Orca should be able to fill the role when rigged and fitted for cargo space.
Kronos	Posted - 2008.07.15 12:19:00 - [35] A Small-freighter sized hauler would be nice. Also I would like to see a covert ops industrial something not massive in cargo hold size but something that can be used to get past gate campers. Also possiblity to add a drone bay to the industrials so they can atleast protect themselfs.
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.07.15 13:41:00 - [36]
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:59:00 - [37] Edited by: Transmaniacon on 15/07/2008 18:59:55 I think if CCP did add this ship, it would be identical to a freighter in terms of fitting, but it would feature less space and better agility. Eve is a multiplayer game and adding all these slots to let it have a tank, cloak, drones, etc. is just supporting the solo players. I have nothing wrong with people playing the game solo, but I think CCP wants to encourage teamwork and having to take some protection on a freighter move in high-sec space should be encouraged. I feel this small freighter is the Orca, but should CCP release an additional ship, I think it would be capable of carrying one freight container, so I expect a cargo-hold of 120,000 m3, with no fitting slots, etc, and possibly a bonus to agility per level. Edit: Forgot that CCP mentioned a possible tractor beam bonus, so maybe 1 high slot for a tractor beam.
Ashen Angel Minmatar AA Mining	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:04:00 - [38] I would like something smaller than my obelisk, but larger than my occator. The jump is from 38k m3 to 800k+ m3 cargo. Something say in the 1-2 freight container range would be nice (120-240k m3) The use of cans and tractors would make it very nice for a mining operation. (1 ship replacing 3-6 other haulers)
Shirakahn	Posted - 2008.07.15 23:02:00 - [39] My idea of a cargo (small freighter) Call it flat out "CARGO ship" Requires Indie V and a new class of skill for CARGO Cargo: 75k to 100k Speed half-way between Ity V and a freighter 2 Hi's 4 mids (obvious reasons) and 1 or 2 lows (no huge boost from expanders) Mid-sized drone bay...right I said drone bay If it can't fight at least allow it some defense or repair. Liberty ships in WW2 at least had a small gun. Gotta be able to tank a attack for at least a little while..
Loreliee	Posted - 2008.07.16 16:33:00 - [40] Wonderful news. There has been a gaping hole in between 1m industrials and 1b freighters for far too long.

Futchmacht Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.16 18:26:00 - [41] Somthing in between is needed for sure .. i figure somewhere around 100km3 to 150km3 cargo space. able to use jetcans and with tractors capital or normal. this would be a bridge gap ship for miners in empire. as well as alowing people who cant afford a billion isk to transport more then the tiny amout alowed with indy. and transport ships. the the advent of t2 ore ships. and nothing new in the hauling department. miners are left in the dust trying to move the large amouts of ore they can mine in an efficent way. when a small corp mining group has 4 hulds pulling 4000m3 or more each. personaly i can pull 4500m3 every 3 minutes. after a good day of mining transporting it all to sell or to move it for production is a pain.
Ashen Angel AA Mining	Posted - 2008.07.17 01:59:00 - [42] I think another option would be to add a bulk transport class ship. Instead of a the deep space transport's tank it has a cargo bonus. Take an interon V hull for instance, and increase the cargo base by 2x normal. Keep the slot layout and allow both the industrial and transports skills to apply to cargo bonuses (std 5% per lvl, but 10% per level for transports skill.. would really give an incentive to train up the transports skills) So using the interon as an example: 12000m3 base cargo Gal. Industrial V = +25% = 15000 m3 Transports V = +50% more = 22500 m3 With 5 cargo expanders: 75811.22 m3 + Pair of T1 cargo rigs: 100260.34m3 (if I did my math right)
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.17 17:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Alz Shado on 17/07/2008 18:02:51 What's needed most is a ship that's more mobile and less expensive than a freighter, can carry more than a standard DST rigged/modded out to it's max, and features enough options to not require four empire-specific models just to complicate life. -On par with the speed and agility of an exhumer -Holds exactly 1 Cargo Container (120m3) -Warps at 2au/s -Features a slot configuration of 1/0/1 for a cloak and WCS or istab. Priced at 250m, this would be a welcome addition to the small-to-medium industrial/trade segment. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Daniel Barbosa	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:25:00 - [44] If this ship does come along it should be accompanied by a ban of some sort on people using cargo containers inside industrials that add up to more cargo space in total than the ship is designed to accommodate. I do it myself - I have eight containers in an Iteron V, greatly increasing the amount I can carry - but it always strikes me as ridiculous. This is EVE, not Doctor Who. A ship between a hauler and a freighter would eliminate the need to do it I'd have thought.
Redbad TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.07.24 12:21:00 - [45] Awesome idea. I think it will greatly stimulate New Eden's economy and trade. More stuff can be moved around without endless little hauls with no margins to give away to the hauler; Or move stuff with one large haul with risk and lack of frequency. Idea to the ingame specs: - Some slots to configure it (not too many to keep the defined role apparent). - Perhaps enough to fit a warpcore stab. - Must be able to hold a base of one freighter cargo container (120K m3's) - Keep the price around 100-150 mio so the investment will be in line with the ability to use it in low-sec also. If you make it too expensive people wont take it in low-sec wich could use some more good logistics. RB
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.24 12:34:00 - [46] Originally by: Kronos Also I would like to see a covert ops industrial something not massive in cargo hold size but something that can be used to get past gate campers. We already have ships for this. About the only thing that will stop them is a ewar boosted heavy dicter.
Redbad Minmatar TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:24:00 - [47] And to stimulate more low-sec travel it would be good that it has less effect to webbing it with more skills on the one that pilots the super-industrial.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:30:00 - [48] Originally by: CCP Wrangler A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change. Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts! I would like to see them have a few utility slots & bonuses to fitting logistic modules (range only on energy x-fer, no quantity boost) to support their own escort fleet, with built in warp core strength modified by pilot skill (2 points per level) and commedable tanks.
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:33:00 - [49] Yes, look at freighters. Give them some mid/low slots so the stupid things can fit stuff to affect their cargo or speed or whatever. Just increase the size of repackaged capitals by a factor of 10 and they still won't fit in a super uber expanded freighter of suicidally large tasty cargo.
Redbad Minmatar TSL Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:37:00 - [50] Originally by: Mister Xerox Originally by: CCP Wrangler A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change. Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts! I would like to see them have a few utility slots & bonuses to fitting logistic modules (range only on energy x-fer, no quantity boost) to support their own escort fleet, with built in warp core strength modified by pilot skill (2 points per level) and commedable tanks. Agreed. Hauling ore during ming can be done fine with industrials, and the Roqual was already added to make mining ops better. This new ship should be directed at moving stuffz around through gates at longer distances not the short distances that can be covered by industrials.

Jennifer Celeste	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Jennifer Celeste Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo. Fixing an issue does not always mean removing it... it means "Fixing" it... --------*****-------- "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin
Jennifer Celeste	Posted - 2008.07.24 18:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Jennifer Celeste Originally by: Princess Jodi I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, removing the sandbox element from eve? you seem intent on turning this into WoW in space...gtfo. Fixing an issue does not always mean removing it... it means "Fixing" it... Suicide ganking doesnt need to be fixed. The fact that people think theyre safe flying 50b worth of stuff in an unescorted, autopiloted freighter is a smart idea, thats the real issue that needs to be addressed. And it is, in the form of suicide ganking.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.08.20 11:54:00 - [54] Originally by: Mister Xerox Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts! How exactly would this be any different from macros using an industrial now? If you're that afraid of macros, may I suggest we shut down the entire server? It's the only way to permanenty get rid of them. (Of course, you lose all legit player as well, but that hardly bothers anyone concerned about macros.)
Elhina Novae Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.20 14:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Ford Hakata A sub-freighter sized hauler would be nice, especially if it's a "stealth hauler" - a hauler that can make use of the Black Op's covert jump bridge. (This would also allow covert gangs to go on extended missions with enough fuel, while being able to bring back the loot from those missions.) Note, I'm suggesting a different ship than a "mini-me" Rorqual for high-sec mining ops. This post! /support
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:06:00 - [56] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 20/08/2008 19:17:36 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 20/08/2008 19:06:01 Should have the abiliy to scoop/jettison anywhere. This is something freighters can't do, and so gives it a role. Capital tractor is a good touch. Makes it the hauler of choice for empire mining ops or small-gang 0.0 ops. Able to fit a tank/cloak = bad juju, unless its hold is really small (sub 50K). If you make a smaller ship that can tank better than a freighter, and cloak, and carry multiple battleships or equivelent, you'll pretty much obsolete freighters. Nobody is going to haul more, and be a gank target, when they could haul a little less, and be relatively safe. I'd just ask that you take the economics of a high-sec suicide gank into consideration when you do your design. Edit: I too support the notion of a "black ops" logistic ship, but I don't think this ship should be it. That ship should be a third T2 industrial to go along with the DST and the Blockade Runner. Providing a stealthy ship of this size is a little over the top.
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore? Newbies? Indeed, as a solo player I still fly my badger II all the time with a cloaking/ECM/mini tank; cheaper and more fun than the t2 variant - for the same money you could finance a small escort fleet. The additional cargo space isn't outstanding. Quote: I would prefer this to be a huge industrial ship rather than a smaller freighter, if only to avoid the freighter skill, the equivilant of battleship size and probably just a bit over battleship cost as well seems about right. 120,000m3 is the size of the largest courier contract you can make so I see a target for this ship, I also like the symetry of a 200Mil ISK pricetag. This!! I'd be happy with a Rokh model with a rusty old industrial texture. Should be just big enough to carry one packaged battleship natively and punch around the level of a small battlecruiser. This would reflect the actual history of merchant marine ships during wartime. I hate mining but am jealous of the interesting ship selections available to miners. On the other hand I actually like hauling from a roleplaying POV; right now the farther you progress with it, the worse it gets. Your risks and costs go way up, while your ships can do less and less. You might as well just sit in station and issue courier contracts.
Anig Browl	Posted - 2008.08.20 21:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Mister Xerox Please please please don't allow these things to load/unload in space except at a POS!!! You'll see macro mobs with them everywhere towing in entire belts! Maybe just disallow large ships in NPC corps. Or have it that NPC corps tax mineral sales (or whatever their specialty is) the way player corps typically tax bounties and mission rewards. You work for a big corp in the real world, you get regular pay and benefits in return for which they keep 80% of your productivity. In Eve you are secure from War declarations, but your so-called employer lets you make as much money as you want on the side.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.21 06:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Lord Fitz 300k would errode market share from jump freighters unless jump freighters also got a boost. They're currently 'the' agile way to move that sized cargo around in empire (ie, more agile than a freighter, but carrying alot more than a hauler). Personally I'd like to see a jumpdriveless Rorqual with the ability to carry other ships in the bay aside from haulers (to let people move rigged ships around empire if needed) Probably with less tanking ability, and a slightly faster warp than freighters (though less than a cruiser sized ship). 300 k would be a bit above the top indeed. I imagine something in the ballpark of 100 k would be adequate if it would have reasonable agility advantage over regular freighter.
Penchance	Posted - 2008.08.21 08:18:00 - [60] It seems the thread is divided roughly into those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship and those who want a slightly bigger industrial ship will all the tractor bells and jump whistles attached. I propose a new class: Heavy Industrial Its T1 incarnation would just be a miniature freighter with enough cargo space to hold a couple of General Freight Containers. It would then have two T2 options: Deep Space Logistics or Jumpbridge Transport Deep Space Logistics would allow interaction with cans, mounting of Capital Tractor Beams and other equipment (e.g. for tanking). The trade-off being that the additional power grid and CPU requirements means that cargo capacity is cut by perhaps half. Jumpbridge Transport would be analogous to an Airbridge and - as the name suggests - would install a jump drive into the ship to allow it to pass through blockades. Again, cargo space would be halved to account for the increased systems requirement. Skill-wise, there's no reason why Freighters should have anything to do with this. Heavy Industrial could (or should be) a skill dependent on Industrial, perhaps requiring Industrial 4 but Advanced Spaceship Command 1. The T1 variant is just a big ship so we should be forgiving when it comes to skills but the T2 variants should require quite a few level fives besides Heavy Industrial 5 (obviously).

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