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Reply to Topic | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mendolorian Girl
Caldari
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 11:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
 Originally by: FlameGlow
Read the topic, I don't think I saw anyone saying they should be safe in highsec, only that navy sometimes doesn't work as advertised.
The faction navy's work exactly as advertised..
Guys, Just because you don't understand how we're doing it, and we're not particularly eager to share that information, that doesn't automatically make it an exploit.
CCP have confirmed that we are not doing anything wrong, so why not turn this thread into something more productive (for you, not us) and bat around some ideas of how we're doing it, you may even get close :D.
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
The faction navy exists so that people raiding enemy faction space do hit and runs.
E.G hit and run a mining op, hit and run haulers at gates etc. Thats the point. They are not meant to lay seige to stations.
This is not about safety, since hit and run gangs can gank people at gates and gank mining ops etc. This is about the Navy not working due to a bug/exploit.
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Cadde
Gallente
L.M.F.A.O
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Edited by: Cadde on 02/07/2008 12:19:59
It is NOT an exploit, it is clever use of equipment. Is it really so that the entire Caldari militia is docked at Jita 4-4???
How about NOT docking in the most "popular" station known to eve and form a counter OFFENSIVE. I find it hard to believe the siege is unbreakable.
Further more, if they can do it and get away with it, so can you right? So go to Oursulaert 3-1 (If i recall correctly) and do it yourselves... Oh thats right. "The exploit only works one way" or "Their navy is too tough". How about you quit crying and do something IN GAME about it, you lost this battle. But you haven't lost the war until you surrender!
Nubs
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Opinions expressed are those of my own and does in NO WAY reflect the opinions of whatever corp/alliance i am currently part of. |
Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Originally by: Cadde
Edited by: Cadde on 02/07/2008 12:19:59
It is NOT an exploit, it is clever use of equipment. Is it really so that the entire Caldari militia is docked at Jita 4-4???
How about NOT docking in the most "popular" station known to eve and form a counter OFFENSIVE. I find it hard to believe the siege is unbreakable.
Further more, if they can do it and get away with it, so can you right? So go to Oursulaert 3-1 (If i recall correctly) and do it yourselves... Oh thats right. "The exploit only works one way" or "Their navy is too tough". How about you quit crying and do something IN GAME about it, you lost this battle. But you haven't lost the war until you surrender!
Nubs
When concord broke, people said the same thing. The navy exists to force hit and runs (hit and runs on gates to kill haulers and hit and runs vs mining ops etc). Now this bug means that Navy is broken and is pointless.
Breaking the Navy is a bug. This was never designed and never in the description of the Navy. I mean, whats the point of Hit and runs when you can siege stations?
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Spurty
Caldari
The Pikey Rebellion II
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
ok, so its exploitable mechanic and I wont get wtfpwn for doing it myself. Thats cool. Still no GM post though so will have to wait before I do this.
If the navy are spawning one frig an hour, I should think you can tank em lol. Sounds great.
I'm not upset, just want clarification. Were you upset I clone jumped away from your blob? QQ to you
--
Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?" |
Dr Axler
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Edited by: Dr Axler on 02/07/2008 12:53:00
the navy will spawn. you will get battleships, cruisers and frigates which will start to nos, web and dps alot. there are no bugs, it works just as advertised. you jump in...they spawn, and they atack you.
edit: the joke in your sig made me laugh...
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:03:49
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:03:27
Originally by: Dr Axler
Edited by: Dr Axler on 02/07/2008 12:59:09
the navy will spawn. you will get battleships, cruisers and frigates which will start to nos, web and dps allot. there are no bugs, it works just as advertised. you jump in...they spawn, and they attack you.
edit: the joke in your sig made me laugh...
They stop attacking. Its like when Concord stops attacking in that bug months back.
Thats perfectly fine if the Devs say that Navy was desgined to do this. Because the design of navies was to force hit and runs rather than sieging stations in perfect safely from navy.
I just want clarification. Is this a exploit or intended? Because if its allowed, then caldari can start doing the same as well
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Excuse me, but the Caldari Navy DID respond. You just didn't see it, and they continued to respond all night, and you continued to not see it.
Apparently, they didn't respond as they should have responded.
The expected response would have been 2x neutralizing battleships plus one cruiser plus one frigate for each Gallente militia pilot, which should have attacked "their assigned militia pilot", and should have kept respawning soon after getting destroyed.
It is obvious that IF the CN responded, they DIDN'T respond like they should have, because many of the ships there would have had absolutely no freaking chance to survive that.
They either didn't spawn the appropriate number of ships, or the navy ships were lagging worse than the player ships, or they didn't even attack, or any other number of things.
So, NO, the navy DIDN'T respond as intended.
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
There is no exploit, and petitions have been answered clearly with "as intended."
Just because it's not classed as an exploit YET doesn't mean it won't be, soon.
You're basically taking advantage of heavy lag to sidestep the normal factional warfare penalties for being in enemy highsec, and then have the gall to call that NOT EXPLOITING ?
The reason petitions have been answered as such was because the GMs responsable didn't actually KNOW all the details of this. People who have had their petitions rejected in THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO shoudl re-open them, referencing this thread and expaining the situation better.
Now, would you guys have actually been able to TANK the TRUE INTENDED response of the Caldari Navy NPCs then still be able to kill the enemy ships, now, THAT would be peachy.
However, I seriously doubt that's what you were doing. No, strike that. I am completely sure you weren't doing that.
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Thank you for your concern. I assure you, the Caldari militia was trying very hard - they just weren't accomplishing much.
That's another thing altogether and doesn't really belong alongside your previous statements.
The NPC ships alone should have been more than enough for the TYPES of ships present at the scene that the Gallente militia was flying.
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Absolom Hues
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO
.....Because the design of navies was to force hit and runs rather than sieging stations in perfect safely from navy.
You keep saying this, where did CCP ever mention that the design of the navies is to force hit & runs? Seems to me they are to assist the Militia with High Security.
Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO
I just want clarification. Is this a exploit or intended? Because if its allowed, then caldari can start doing the same as well
Let the Caldari do the same thing.... what are you waiting for? I look forward to engageing you in Dodixie 
___
Serving the Gallente Federation... one Caldari ship at a time.
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:26:59
Originally by: Akita T
People who have had their petitions rejected in THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO shoudl re-open them, referencing this thread and expaining the situation better
This.
The GM's may not be aware of exactly what is happening with this exploit as they may still be thinking that the Navy works. Ask to speak to a senor GM for clarification on if this is a exploit or if this is intended. If a GM could clarify is this is a exploit or not, it would help a lot. This appears to be a bug on the scale of concord not working.
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Dr Axler
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Excuse me, but the Caldari Navy DID respond. You just didn't see it, and they continued to respond all night, and you continued to not see it.
Apparently, they didn't respond as they should have responded.
The expected response would have been 2x neutralizing battleships plus one cruiser plus one frigate for each Gallente militia pilot, which should have attacked "their assigned militia pilot", and should have kept respawning soon after getting destroyed.
It is obvious that IF the CN responded, they DIDN'T respond like they should have, because many of the ships there would have had absolutely no freaking chance to survive that.
They either didn't spawn the appropriate number of ships, or the navy ships were lagging worse than the player ships, or they didn't even attack, or any other number of things.
So, NO, the navy DIDN'T respond as intended.
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
There is no exploit, and petitions have been answered clearly with "as intended."
Just because it's not classed as an exploit YET doesn't mean it won't be, soon.
You're basically taking advantage of heavy lag to sidestep the normal factional warfare penalties for being in enemy highsec, and then have the gall to call that NOT EXPLOITING ?
The reason petitions have been answered as such was because the GMs responsable didn't actually KNOW all the details of this. People who have had their petitions rejected in THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO shoudl re-open them, referencing this thread and expaining the situation better.
Now, would you guys have actually been able to TANK the TRUE INTENDED response of the Caldari Navy NPCs then still be able to kill the enemy ships, now, THAT would be peachy.
However, I seriously doubt that's what you were doing. No, strike that. I am completely sure you weren't doing that.
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Thank you for your concern. I assure you, the Caldari militia was trying very hard - they just weren't accomplishing much.
That's another thing altogether and doesn't really belong alongside your previous statements.
The NPC ships alone should have been more than enough for the TYPES of ships present at the scene that the Gallente militia was flying.
do not accuse others of exploits if you are not sure. the navy responded just as it was intended to. you can try it yourself. jump in, and you will get battleships, cruisers and frigates, and they will nos, web and dps you allot.
you keep stating that those ships could not tank all that, therefore it must have been an exploit and the navy must be broken.
try it, jump in, and i assure you the navy will respond and blow you up.
the navy isn't broken, they respond as intended. they do spawn in exactly correct numbers, and they do exactly what they are meant to do, they web you, they nos you from extreme ranges for extreme amounts, and they do insane alphas.
all that happened, therefore the navy isn't bugged or broken, and you can easily try that for yourself.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 13:39:40
Sigh. Ignorance is really, really annoying.
1. The Navy *did* respond to our assault. They continued to respond the entire evening.
2. The Navy *never* stopped attacking. The entire evening, they continued to attack. Anyone who watched for a considerable period of time would've been able to detect what was going on - the fact that we didn't give the Caldari militia that time isn't our problem.
3. The Caldari Militia have a major rendezvous point 3 jumps away - if even a token group had come from that location, we would have been instantly disrupted. We made plans for that contingency, in fact, and were shocked we never had to use them.
4. If CCP intended for our raids to be impossible, they would have CONCORD-coded these NPCs. They did not; they are tankable, they are evadeable, they are killable. Which of those means we used is our business, but obviously someone in the Minmatar militia has also figured it out on their own, since reports have come of a similar phenomenon there - we just did it bigger.
5. The Caldari have already attempted this as well in Villore on three occassions - they just haven't figured out how to succeed at it, yet.
It is downright easy to disrupt our raids - they are very much hit and run. The problem (at least for the Caldari) is that we're not being forced to run, except away from the NPCs, and so we can avoid fleeing the system for quite some time. They're not CONCORD, and since they weren't coded that way, they were obviously designed to be circumvented if you had the tools, means, and reasons. The Gallente and the Minmatar both seem to have gotten a leg up on the Caldari in this "tactics arms race." Perhaps instead of complaining, you should apply your 7000-member, "highly organized" militia, and catch up.
In case you didn't notice, when you signed up for FacWar, you picked up an Empire War Declaration against two other Empires. The Navy is there to assist you in defending high-security space, not give you a safe zone. You signed up for a war. Empire Wars aren't safe, unless you're docked.
Drop out or deal with it.
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Funkcikle
Gallente
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
This thread contains much squid ink
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:44:56
Originally by: Dr Axler
you keep stating that those ships could not tank all that, therefore it must have been an exploit and the navy must be broken.
try it, jump in, and i assure you the navy will respond and blow you up.
the navy isn't broken, they respond as intended. they do spawn in exactly correct numbers, and they do exactly what they are meant to do, they web you, they nos you from extreme ranges for extreme amounts, and they do insane alphas.
all that happened, therefore the navy isn't bugged or broken, and you can easily try that for yourself.
Well then, IF what you say is true, IF the navies DID show up with the appropriate numbers and DID NOS and DPS and webbed and damped each and every one of you from the ranges they're supposed to, and KEPT doing that the entire time... well then, I tip my hat to you for a job well done.
Still... this sounds almost too unbelievable to be true... but, well, I must now admit it is in the realms of marginally possible.
P.S. I guess I should try to see for myself not rely on 2nd hand info. When's your next raid ? 
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 13:45:52
Were you not a member of the Caldari militia, I would happily show you exactly what we did, Akita. We're not doing this in bad spirits - we're just keeping all the battlefields active in an Empire War. When/if CCP shoots us down - though they've given every indication they won't so far (we brought an embedded reporter along the first time we did it, and it made the Gallente Militia news, for crying out loud) - we'll happily reveal what we're doing. It's really not that hard to figure out, and once you do, how to disrupt it becomes wildly obvious. I hope the Caldari Militia does figure it out; opening a High-Sec Theatre would be great small-scale PVP.
Right now, the Caldari are behind in the arms race, but that doesn't mean those ahead are breaking the rules.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Originally by: Akita T
P.S. I guess I should try to see for myself not rely on 2nd hand info. When's your next raid ?
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EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Eh, just watch your militia chat for the screams of agony. Follow them to the source. ;)
(Assuming the source isn't INVICTA or some other Gallente Militia entity pounding people down in Tama or what not.)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:55:28
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:52:32
Well, reading your previous posts I can pretty much figure what you're doing - you just keep warping around as soon as the battleship NPCs lock on to you and start neutralizing you too badly, and just attack targets of opportunity before that, then warp out and keep warping until your're fully repaired and at decent capacitor levels... then repeat the process.
Basically, a bunch of semi-tanked tacklers could easily wipe out your entire fleet by just keeping you in place long enough for the NPCs to finish you off
Well then, good job on doing it so nicely so far 
P.S. Or, I suppose, you could be also using a slightly more lame remote assist tactic which I won't mention right now in full detail 
P.P.S. Or you could also be using tactical warps too, as means of delaying the NPC response, if the navy NPCs are (still) unable of tactical warps like CONCORD can already do.
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:55:28
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:52:32
Well, reading your previous posts I can pretty much figure what you're doing - you just keep warping around as soon as the battleship NPCs lock on to you and start neutralizing you too badly, and just attack targets of opportunity before that, then warp out and keep warping until your're fully repaired and at decent capacitor levels... then repeat the process.
Basically, a bunch of semi-tanked tacklers could easily wipe out your entire fleet by just keeping you in place long enough for the NPCs to finish you off
Well then, good job on doing it so nicely so far
P.S. Or, I suppose, you could be also using a slightly more lame remote assist tactic which I won't mention right now in full detail
P.P.S. Or you could also be using tactical warps too, as means of delaying the NPC response, if the navy NPCs are (still) unable of tactical warps like CONCORD can already do.
Come have a look. We won't bite...much.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 14:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Come have a look. We won't bite...much.
Paraphrasing somebody in corp chat : "wow, CEO undocked ? must write that in the diary !"
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EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Trinity McAlt
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Posted - 2008.07.02 14:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
HICs anyone?
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Doing this is not considered an exploit by our dear Customer Support team. 
Wrangler
Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Email
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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Spurty
Caldari
The Pikey Rebellion II
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Doing this is not considered an exploit by our dear Customer Support team.
Thanks for clarification ;-)
Gallente n00bs, we're coming for you (suggest ppl in Nourv stop sitting on that gate as well)
--
Two fat blokes in a pub, one says to the other "your round." The other one says "So are you, you fat git!" |
Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yet more evidence you pseudo-French buggers need to be wiped off the face of the map. Scum.
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Ulstan
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
I wouldn't say what they are doing is exploiting.
However, it's obvious when a bunch of light ships can sit around at 0/ms in very hi sec of their enemies faction that the enemy faction navies are not working as intended.
So, the question the OP asked is pretty valid: if the caldari militia does the same thing, we're not going to get banned or something are we?
Given that caldari militia has already launched several quite successful hi sec ops into gallente space, I'd guess the answer is 'no'.
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 15:56:00
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Doing this is not considered an exploit by our dear Customer Support team.
Which tactic?
The fight while under NPC fire? Or the fight without NPC targeting as you relax version? Or both. Im planning to do the second one tonight
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Bhaal
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:
However, it's obvious when a bunch of light ships can sit around at 0/ms in very hi sec of their enemies faction that the enemy faction navies are not working as intended.
That's EVE, isn't it?
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Doing this is not considered an exploit by our dear Customer Support team.
Which tactic?
The fight while under NPC fire? Or the fight without NPC targeting as you relax version? Or both. Im planning to do the second one tonight
Link to the second one he speaks of.
Let's just hope that "second" one is just a sporadic bug and it will be fixed soon (NOT Soon™).
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 16:03:14
I'm amazed at the number of people commenting with no direct knowledge or experience with what's going on.
What's described in the Minmatar thread, to someone not familiar with the tactic, would look exactly the same as what we did. I strongly suspect that - like in our case in Jita - people with not enough information for a valid analysis are making sweeping conclusions that project failure on someone else, rather than on their own lack of understanding.
Maybe this is a silly suggestion, but perhaps people should reconsider commenting on issues that they have nothing but hearsay and fourth-hand reports to base their opinions on.
Wait. This is the internet...that IS a silly suggestion.
/me wanders off.
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 16:26:26
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 16:23:41
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 16:03:14
I'm amazed at the number of people commenting with no direct knowledge or experience with what's going on.
What's described in the Minmatar thread, to someone not familiar with the tactic, would look exactly the same as what we did. I strongly suspect that - like in our case in Jita - people with not enough information for a valid analysis are making sweeping conclusions that project failure on someone else, rather than on their own lack of understanding.
Maybe this is a silly suggestion, but perhaps people should reconsider commenting on issues that they have nothing but hearsay and fourth-hand reports to base their opinions on.
Wait. This is the internet...that IS a silly suggestion.
/me wanders off.
ECM/Dampen yeah yeah we know. Anyone being able to permajam Milita Navy = Stupid but hey, we dont make the rules. Solution is more navy warp in every 20 seconds so permajaming only buys you time, not permanant immunity.
Also CCP, can we permajam concord as well so we get extra suicide ganks? K thx
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