|
|
| Author |
Reply to Topic | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Market AltLOLOLOLO
    |
Posted - 2008.07.02 10:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 10:04:49
 Originally by: Venkul Mul
Stage 1: players protest because enemy empire high sec Faction navy will insta kill ships, so FW can't be done in high sec
Stage 2. someone test it and find tanks capable of withstanding faction navy attacks
Stage 3: Gallente players set up ships with a tank capable of withstanding Caldari faction Navy and start doing mayhem in Jita
Stage 4: Caldari FW players start crying "Exploit, it should not be possible to enter enemy high sec when you are involved in FW"
So decide what you want: Complete invulnerability in faction high sec or not?
The ships in the screenshots are impossible to have such tanks.
Look at it. A vagabond is going to tank 800DPS and neuts? Is this some kind of Estamel Fitted super passive vagabond? A Claw doing 300m/s can tank FW navy? A t1 Stabber at 0m/s tanks FW navy?
Either Explain how its done otherwise its a exploit, since there is no reasonable way this can happen.
Exaplin how it is done and people will agree that its legit or say why its not legit. Just now it looks like a FW glitch.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 10:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
They're not exploiting you fool. As has been said it's merely that the NPC Navy ships DO appear but often are bugged or lagged out or something and half the time dont even bother to attack.
Stop crying exploit as that implies that all those players are doing something purposely to cause this effect. Which they're not.
My guess is that lag glitches up the ships
If concord did the same, then its not exploiting?
Seems like a major bug if ships cannot respond. Dont you think? Killing is fine if they tank it, but there is t1 stabbers and 300m/s intercepters that should be easy targets.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 10:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO
The ships in the screenshots are impossible to have such tanks.
Look at it. A vagabond is going to tank 800DPS and neuts? Is this some kind of Estamel Fitted super passive vagabond? A Claw doing 300m/s can tank FW navy? A t1 Stabber at 0m/s tanks FW navy?
Either Explain how its done otherwise its a exploit, since there is no reasonable way this can happen.
Exaplin how it is done and people will agree that its legit or say why its not legit. Just now it looks like a FW glitch.
I don't know if they have found a system to draw aggro to a spider tanked ship or some other method. It is not my problem. If you are convinced it is a bug, petition it as exploit and bug report what you see.
Petition for ship replacement too if you feel it is an exploit.
But as long at is not confirmed as such what I see is some people lamenting that they can be killed in Jita.
About the speed tank and ship not moving, you know perfectly that the overview information in Jita aren't reliable.
As usual the weight of getting proof is on the prosecutors, not on the defendants.
You can call CCP to act as prosecutors, but it seem that some of you have already been judge and jury.
You cannot speed tank fast enough.
How is this done? Do the navy have like 1 sensor streangth so you can put a ecm drone on each of them? Because I tried that and that did not work. I tried a falcon with 6 racials on test for a cycle and that did not work.
Is it that lag creates major problem? Remember Concord broke 2-3 times before, is Navy broke or is this 100% intended?
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 10:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 10:39:42
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO
You cannot speed tank fast enough.
How is this done? Do the navy have like 1 sensor streangth so you can put a ecm drone on each of them? Because I tried that and that did not work. I tried a falcon with 6 racials on test for a cycle and that did not work.
Is it that lag creates major problem? Remember Concord broke 2-3 times before, is Navy broke or is this 100% intended?
ECM drones can be a option, even I doubt it. NPC don't have a sensor strength I think (and they don't care for your sensor strength when using ECM on you, they have a flat chance of success). So it is possible that there is a flat chance of success in blinding them for each ECM system, independently from the ECM strength. So using ECM drones/modules on them could conceivably reduce DPS enough to make them tankable. Especially as NPC aren't so fast in locking you again.
Test it on Sisi. Maybe it is all about breaking lock 1 time and moving out of the aggressing range of the NPC navy unit.
In other words, NPC's are bugged into not retargeting after being ECM'ed by falcons with racials? This is a serious bug.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 11:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Originally by: Furb Killer
Serious khanto, are you so stupid or do you only act like you are?
Read the freaking topic, the problem is that the NPC navies do NOT attack always.
Exactly.
It defeats the point of a Navy if it does not attack. Where is the risk for people camping a lag infested system?
People undock to pvp and cannot do so because they get black screen and die since the agressors can exploit Faction Navy due to navy bugs.
Both sides need a chance to die. Navy not working is a bug. Where is the risk of raiding space if navy is bugged?
Remember the concord bugs. They were never intended but neverless got fixed.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 12:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
The faction navy exists so that people raiding enemy faction space do hit and runs.
E.G hit and run a mining op, hit and run haulers at gates etc. Thats the point. They are not meant to lay seige to stations.
This is not about safety, since hit and run gangs can gank people at gates and gank mining ops etc. This is about the Navy not working due to a bug/exploit.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 12:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Originally by: Cadde
Edited by: Cadde on 02/07/2008 12:19:59
It is NOT an exploit, it is clever use of equipment. Is it really so that the entire Caldari militia is docked at Jita 4-4???
How about NOT docking in the most "popular" station known to eve and form a counter OFFENSIVE. I find it hard to believe the siege is unbreakable.
Further more, if they can do it and get away with it, so can you right? So go to Oursulaert 3-1 (If i recall correctly) and do it yourselves... Oh thats right. "The exploit only works one way" or "Their navy is too tough". How about you quit crying and do something IN GAME about it, you lost this battle. But you haven't lost the war until you surrender!
Nubs
When concord broke, people said the same thing. The navy exists to force hit and runs (hit and runs on gates to kill haulers and hit and runs vs mining ops etc). Now this bug means that Navy is broken and is pointless.
Breaking the Navy is a bug. This was never designed and never in the description of the Navy. I mean, whats the point of Hit and runs when you can siege stations?
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 13:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:03:49
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:03:27
Originally by: Dr Axler
Edited by: Dr Axler on 02/07/2008 12:59:09
the navy will spawn. you will get battleships, cruisers and frigates which will start to nos, web and dps allot. there are no bugs, it works just as advertised. you jump in...they spawn, and they attack you.
edit: the joke in your sig made me laugh...
They stop attacking. Its like when Concord stops attacking in that bug months back.
Thats perfectly fine if the Devs say that Navy was desgined to do this. Because the design of navies was to force hit and runs rather than sieging stations in perfect safely from navy.
I just want clarification. Is this a exploit or intended? Because if its allowed, then caldari can start doing the same as well
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 13:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 13:26:59
Originally by: Akita T
People who have had their petitions rejected in THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO shoudl re-open them, referencing this thread and expaining the situation better
This.
The GM's may not be aware of exactly what is happening with this exploit as they may still be thinking that the Navy works. Ask to speak to a senor GM for clarification on if this is a exploit or if this is intended. If a GM could clarify is this is a exploit or not, it would help a lot. This appears to be a bug on the scale of concord not working.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 15:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 15:56:00
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Doing this is not considered an exploit by our dear Customer Support team. 
Which tactic?
The fight while under NPC fire? Or the fight without NPC targeting as you relax version? Or both. Im planning to do the second one tonight 
|
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 16:26:26
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 16:23:41
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 16:03:14
I'm amazed at the number of people commenting with no direct knowledge or experience with what's going on.
What's described in the Minmatar thread, to someone not familiar with the tactic, would look exactly the same as what we did. I strongly suspect that - like in our case in Jita - people with not enough information for a valid analysis are making sweeping conclusions that project failure on someone else, rather than on their own lack of understanding.
Maybe this is a silly suggestion, but perhaps people should reconsider commenting on issues that they have nothing but hearsay and fourth-hand reports to base their opinions on.
Wait. This is the internet...that IS a silly suggestion.
/me wanders off.
ECM/Dampen yeah yeah we know. Anyone being able to permajam Milita Navy = Stupid but hey, we dont make the rules. Solution is more navy warp in every 20 seconds so permajaming only buys you time, not permanant immunity.
Also CCP, can we permajam concord as well so we get extra suicide ganks? K thx
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 17:41:34
Originally by: Ulstan
I'm honestly a little surprised by caldari upset at this. Gallente finally learned from our repeated incursions into high sec space and decided to return the favor. You should know from our own ops that high sec != complete safety from enemy militias.
Quote:
What's described in the Minmatar thread, to someone not familiar with the tactic, would look exactly the same as what we did.
If that's the thread I'm thinking of, what happened was the NPC navies not showing up at all (for a period of 20 minutes).
If that is what your attack looked like, pretty clearly the NPC navies are not functioning as it should.
Note that the navy showing up and chasing one guy off somewhere while everyone else can sit unmolested at a gate/station is still in the category of 'not functioning as intended'.
However, if it's ruled as not an exploit, everyone should adapt and do the same thing!
That is the "Get the navy to chase you, then go off grid and LOL, they never come back" one?
There are about 3-4 different ways to compleatly render navy impontent. All are allowed.
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 18:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 18:05:51
Originally by: Faife
C'mon people, they clearly answered all questions of "are we safe in high sec" with "no, but a navy will spawn to help you"
what part of that is confusing? you're not safe, you simply have some assistance.
and for god's sake, all it takes to break these ships is a mwd and a scram. take off some of those shield extenders and pvp fit.
Not really true. You can prevent navy form spawning ongrid. Thats the problem number 1. Another problem is that navy that do spawn, you can prevent them from ever targeting you. Thats problem number 2 etc etc
|
Market AltLOLOLOLO
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 23:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Issue is NOT about death etc.
Issue is about the 2-3 compleatly dubious methods used. The only legal method is shooting under NPC fire or before NPC turn up.
You can prevent Navy from ever turning up. Another method is to stop navy every targeting you, which is exactly the same as the old Concord not firing bug from a while back
Undock = Pvp. However, If concord did not work, something is wrong. POS bowling was legal one day, changed the next when people relised something was wrong.
So the real question is, what typs of tactics are allowed?
1. Buffer tanked gank squads - Allowed and perfect for high sec ganking enemy navy. They can tank NPC's for a long time.
2. Tricking Navy to be stuck in wrong grid, thus never warping in - Yes, you can guess how to do this. Its pretty shabby tbh. Is this a exploit? Or is it allowed?
3. Navy never targeting - Seems to be a bug? But permajaming or superdamping navy is possible, but they forget targets quite often and that is a problem. 1 Falcon can in theory take care of infinite navy ships. Allowed or bugged or both?
4. Outrunning Navy - Allowed and a good tactic. Navy are chasing you so you are on the run.
I can go on. Real question is which tactics are legit and which are not.
|
|
| |
Reply to Topic |