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Reply to Topic | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 05:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 05:09:20
Excuse me, but the Caldari Navy DID respond. You just didn't see it, and they continued to respond all night, and you continued to not see it.
There is no exploit, and petitions have been answered clearly with "as intended."
Thank you for your concern. I assure you, the Caldari militia was trying very hard - they just weren't accomplishing much.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 13:39:40
Sigh. Ignorance is really, really annoying.
1. The Navy *did* respond to our assault. They continued to respond the entire evening.
2. The Navy *never* stopped attacking. The entire evening, they continued to attack. Anyone who watched for a considerable period of time would've been able to detect what was going on - the fact that we didn't give the Caldari militia that time isn't our problem.
3. The Caldari Militia have a major rendezvous point 3 jumps away - if even a token group had come from that location, we would have been instantly disrupted. We made plans for that contingency, in fact, and were shocked we never had to use them.
4. If CCP intended for our raids to be impossible, they would have CONCORD-coded these NPCs. They did not; they are tankable, they are evadeable, they are killable. Which of those means we used is our business, but obviously someone in the Minmatar militia has also figured it out on their own, since reports have come of a similar phenomenon there - we just did it bigger.
5. The Caldari have already attempted this as well in Villore on three occassions - they just haven't figured out how to succeed at it, yet.
It is downright easy to disrupt our raids - they are very much hit and run. The problem (at least for the Caldari) is that we're not being forced to run, except away from the NPCs, and so we can avoid fleeing the system for quite some time. They're not CONCORD, and since they weren't coded that way, they were obviously designed to be circumvented if you had the tools, means, and reasons. The Gallente and the Minmatar both seem to have gotten a leg up on the Caldari in this "tactics arms race." Perhaps instead of complaining, you should apply your 7000-member, "highly organized" militia, and catch up.
In case you didn't notice, when you signed up for FacWar, you picked up an Empire War Declaration against two other Empires. The Navy is there to assist you in defending high-security space, not give you a safe zone. You signed up for a war. Empire Wars aren't safe, unless you're docked.
Drop out or deal with it.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 13:45:52
Were you not a member of the Caldari militia, I would happily show you exactly what we did, Akita. We're not doing this in bad spirits - we're just keeping all the battlefields active in an Empire War. When/if CCP shoots us down - though they've given every indication they won't so far (we brought an embedded reporter along the first time we did it, and it made the Gallente Militia news, for crying out loud) - we'll happily reveal what we're doing. It's really not that hard to figure out, and once you do, how to disrupt it becomes wildly obvious. I hope the Caldari Militia does figure it out; opening a High-Sec Theatre would be great small-scale PVP.
Right now, the Caldari are behind in the arms race, but that doesn't mean those ahead are breaking the rules.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eh, just watch your militia chat for the screams of agony. Follow them to the source. ;)
(Assuming the source isn't INVICTA or some other Gallente Militia entity pounding people down in Tama or what not.) 
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
 Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:55:28
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 13:52:32
Well, reading your previous posts I can pretty much figure what you're doing - you just keep warping around as soon as the battleship NPCs lock on to you and start neutralizing you too badly, and just attack targets of opportunity before that, then warp out and keep warping until your're fully repaired and at decent capacitor levels... then repeat the process.
Basically, a bunch of semi-tanked tacklers could easily wipe out your entire fleet by just keeping you in place long enough for the NPCs to finish you off
Well then, good job on doing it so nicely so far 
P.S. Or, I suppose, you could be also using a slightly more lame remote assist tactic which I won't mention right now in full detail 
P.P.S. Or you could also be using tactical warps too, as means of delaying the NPC response, if the navy NPCs are (still) unable of tactical warps like CONCORD can already do.
Come have a look. We won't bite...much.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 02/07/2008 16:03:14
I'm amazed at the number of people commenting with no direct knowledge or experience with what's going on.
What's described in the Minmatar thread, to someone not familiar with the tactic, would look exactly the same as what we did. I strongly suspect that - like in our case in Jita - people with not enough information for a valid analysis are making sweeping conclusions that project failure on someone else, rather than on their own lack of understanding.
Maybe this is a silly suggestion, but perhaps people should reconsider commenting on issues that they have nothing but hearsay and fourth-hand reports to base their opinions on.
Wait. This is the internet...that IS a silly suggestion.
/me wanders off.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.03 12:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Another demonstration and more drama, coming soon! :)
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.03 14:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Quote:
so, you want the tactic laid out for you step by step. That way you can use it since you obviously aren't sharp enough figure out how to replicate what they did.
Too bad I didn't have a client accessible when I posted all that speculation, I could've saved you the time and effort typing that sentence. You almost sound convincing, until you realise you're trying to tell me "I haven't figured it out" when I didn't even need a client to work it out. I just needed it to be certain.
My Control Test:
I created two spots 200k apart. Warped to one in an ibis, navy spawned 20k away. Warped to the other, navy visibly despawned instantly and respawned 20k away from me.
My actual test:
Using an ibis with one light drone, I warped to one point, launched the drone and set it onto one of the faction ships, then warped to the other spot 200k away. From there I observed the faction navy remain behind and engage the drone. Granted one light drone doesn't last long on the navy, but the effect was definately visible.
So what's that mean?
The poor mans version of this tactic is to spawn a bunch of drones somewhere and have the navy engage them. My guess (guess only because I haven't tested this) is to get someone else to get the aggro instead of one of your drones. What better choice than a speed-tanked frigate for something like that? And oh yeah, you can definately speed tank them (to whoever said you couldn't before).
None of that's an exploit. And it even makes sense, if they were engaging the navy forces. Set up two gangs, one to engage and draw ships away from one group of fighters while the others work unhindered taking out war targets.
But I still heartily stand by the fact it's pretty broken in terms of having a large amount of numerous faction navy vessels chasing one tiny vessel, and broken in the same way that, as a caldari militia pilot, I can venture into Gallente space with a neutral alt or two perma-repping my tank while engaging the navy NPC's, who don't care to do a thing about another ship from a non-militia corp aiding their enemy to destroy them.
All in all, as I said before, pretty damn corny, but not an exploit.
It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point. Go ahead and try to run a raid into Oursulaert with this set of tactics.... just let me know when so I can bring popcorn and salvagers.
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