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Author	Topic
Jeirth Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.25 00:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Halycon Gamma The reason so many people complain about the new character experience now days is very very simple. Eve isn't the same as when you all started. Oh, you may THINK its the same, minus a few odds and ends here and there. But really think about it. Every new system, every new mechanic, every new ship, every new module. Eve tends to progress at a rate faster than any other MMO I can think of, in the area of gameplay mechanics. And it all stacks. Everytime they add something, it gets exponentially harder for a new player to actually learn the game. CCP really needs to just stop for a patch. Stop putting any new content or mechanics in, and just write an update of nothing but tutorials, explanations, and interactive in game guides. It would do more for their bottom line in subscriber base than any amount of advertising they do. Because I really don't think the Devs, or any of the old players can really appreciate what the current learning curve of this game is. I've learned languages with less of a learning curve than eve has. Agreed, some of the people starting, who HAVE completed the tutorials, don't know about right click on object or how to fly by the double click in space method, thats a problem.
Corrock Minmatar SUBLIME L.L.C. SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.07.25 09:01:00 - [32] Originally by: AltBier Originally by: Berious Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time. All that needs to happen is that people STOP telling noobs: "train all learning skills before doing anything else". Instead tell them to first train up simple rank 1 & 2 skills which let them fly better ships and do fun stuff. Once you start learning more advanced skills, then you can train up the basic learning skills and later on the more advanced learning skills. QFT. Most MMPORPG's have a quick progression to 25% of max level, and after that there's a bit of grinding and slowing of progression. Of course, 25% of max level isn't anywhere close to 25% of the power of a character maxed out, so I really think EVE is still better in this respect. You can train quite a few things, and earn quite a lot of money (for a newb:) before anything but the quick, lower level learning skills will help you. And you don't have to do any grinding, other than for rep or isk. The skills, and your power in the game, improve even if you have an insane workweek/finals or whatever. When I was a newb, last november, I was given two pieces of advice that were pure gold: 1, you only need to train learnings to 3, then train the stuff you need (all lower learnings -empathy to 3 takes 2 days, 7 hrs on a minmatar brutor slave child, all pts into perc/will, which is a worst case example. Everyone else will train them faster.) Go back later and finish them when you start training things higher. and 2, Salvage. By doing so I had a balance of candy and vegetables, and all the cash a newbie could want. I have a corpie who started 2 days earlier than I did, and has like a million sp more than I do, since he started by maxing learnings out (5/4) 800k of that is in learning tho, and he has a "well-rounded" stat distribution. I'm finally taking the lower learnings to 5, however, and once I finish that, I'll be continuing to train the perc/will stuff almost exlusively, so it'll take me less than two months to pull ahead. Deciding where you want your character to go and specializing is something I actually gleaned from the forums:) Thanks all. P.S. If a newbie doesn't have any clue, and just trains for the "next big ship," they're going to lose it, get frustrated, and leave just as fast as the bored newbie. We had new recruits who did just that, and despite our best advice, (which they were too impatient to follow), they lost too many ships they couldn't afford to, and left:( I just think CCP has come to the conclusion that, yes, if they could go back and make the perfect EVE, and scale it perfectly for newbies and vets alike, they would, but they can't, and they've accepted that as it is, the game is not for everyone.
Natalia Kovac Minmatar Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2008.07.28 04:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Ishkur I'm sorry, Lia Gaeren, but you apparently do not understand how to play a MMORPG. In short, you have played EVE incorrectly. Please delete your character and start over, and play the game properly this time. 1. Create only the race/class/schools that are going to give you the leg up you need for day 1. 2. Train all learning skills in the exact order as dictated by EVEMON. It's best if you can set aside a week or two to be at your computer 24/7. 3. Only train skills necessary for the particular task you are going to perform. It is best if you can narrow this down exactly ahead of time, including exactly which mods you will equip on your ship. 4. Have absolutely no fun whatsoever, this is not allowed. /sarcasm I agree entirely, Lia Gaeren. I don't agree with the OP because they are a little too #4 for my taste. And I don't really agree with the idea of removing Learning skills (I like the idea of adding new ones though, or even a tertiary (new) attribute to skills!). Learning skills are a great time sink for players who like time sinks and min-maxing and being uber efficient. There are lots of you, and that's okay. For the rest of us, they are an interesting way to speed things up at some distant point in the future but I'm not losing any sleep over it. Last night I was training Eidetic Memory but I decided I wanted to play with a Destroyer (HERESY!) and so I trained up Destroyers real quick! I know, I'm a total noob. I did something I thought would be fun. Shoot me! I HATE learning skills tbh. I have V in all basic and IV in all advanced. Also +4s in most of the time. Yet those IVs bug me. I want to waste the two months training them despite the fact that I know they will not repay the time spent inside two or three years. Argh!! Also I think level V skills take too long, but I don't think that can really be changed now. Instant +10 to all characters and refunded points spent on learning to spend on whatever we want would be a dream come true. Of course this will never happen. A man can dream though... A man can dream.
Rhamnousia Caldari Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:12:00 - [34] 1- Learning is a necessary waste of time. It usually takes a person two weeks to complete learning skills. In that two weeks, said person will have to learn more about EVE and game mechanics than he will have to in the next three or four months of his EVE-life. Why is this two weeks important? It's the trial by fire for (allegedly) new players. EVE is a cold world, it mimics too much of the real world because pilots are allowed to scam, cheat, steal as long as that particular action does not involve an exploit, or against the EULA. About 60% of new players come to EVE never make it pass the trial by fire. It is a good thing. Look at the other alternative, WoW. 2- Whining is human nature. You do it. I do it. He/she/it does it. Quit whining about me whining. 3- EVE stands for evolution. (not the corp, ugh) Pilots in EVE evolve everyday. From a frigate pilot into a cruiser pilot. From a cruiser pilot into a BS pilot or a specialized interdictor pilot. It's the core of EVE that dictate the game. Sometimes, the game reach a period of stagnant, evolution slows down. And we stuck with massive blob of hundreds of players, cold war between two powerhouses, alliance after alliance pour their resources in supercapital ships. But, somewhere in the galaxy, in some dark corner of space, one pilot come up with a tactic now widely known as nano*gotry, which involve small number of pilots fitting exclusive for speed for hit-and-run operation deep in the enemy territories. This cycle of evolution, this mutation has spread. Most pilots adapt to this tactic, some stand resilient against it. Most fail and whine, some succeed and hold their heads high. Soon, nano*gotry will no longer be the trendy thing to do. This tactic will mutate to something else, for better or for worse. And the cycle of evolution continues to turn. This ain't Burger King, you can't always have it your way. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor. Forever Pelennor
Tiranus Icvan	Posted - 2008.07.30 00:31:00 - [35] Edited by: Tiranus Icvan on 30/07/2008 00:32:33 I'm a newbie, I started playing this game last September (or was it October?) Anyway, I played the game for about a month and quickly got bored of it. I thought "Eh, all this skill training crap is too boring." (That's saying something, I'm normally patient.) So, about ten months later, I had a conversation with a guest (customer, I work at Target) who plays EVE. The advice he gave me, was to slow down on the learning skills, and train in stuff that you think would be fun. I'm glad I talked to him, because I'm having more fun with EVE now than I had months ago. So just to reinforce what a lot of people are saying: Don't take away skills, just educate newbies on doing what's fun rather than shoving learning skills down their throats. When they are necessary, they can always be returned to later.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.07 08:09:00 - [36] I agree CCP please stop messing with this game and ignore the whiners please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This game is super awesome and open ended please don't turn this into WoW in space. I am not paying $14.95 a month to play WoW in space. I play eve because its original and its not freakin WoW and all those other games. Leave the learning skills just because some NOOB *****es that he can't catch up to everyone ignore him and that person should not play EvE. Eve is time consuming yes but thats what makes it so much fun to play
Mr Daytrading	Posted - 2008.08.08 15:16:00 - [37] Edited by: Mr Daytrading on 08/08/2008 15:17:02 When i read this i hear people whining. Whining people complaining about people that are whining,.. how ironic. I remember the first post-er of this tropic catching me in my heron afk scanning in a 0.4 mamouna system, wasting a very expensif set of implants. My own fault, but what the hell im not whining, where else u got merc's for
Qorrin C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2008.08.13 06:02:00 - [38] OP: nice post, not the wording I would use but I agree with the sentiment.
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:07:00 - [39] he was telling everyone that they shouldn't whine, that eve is harsh and that you just simply get > now and then. CCP just kicked the people that trained really long for t2 fitted nano ships with support skills right in the nuts, spit in their face and did it again..... People should be able to train for something and expect it isn't nerfed till it doesn't move anymore (how ironic, move , nano nerf) when they are able to fly it.... CCP shouldn't nerf stuff , they should make more counters to it. That way the people that have trained their ass off for a cool ship + fittings still can fly their ships without stuff changed . And the whiners can train their asses off for counters to it. Quote: woot I wants a toy arbitrator !!! :O
Lubimchik Power Seed Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.14 18:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Lubimchik on 14/08/2008 18:16:53 Originally by: Suvliana drops, etc. Shut the ** up. This is a game. It is not meant to be fair. LMFAO! Originally by:** Suvliana I personally can't deal with whiners. They simply complain about something they don't want to train for 6 months to have. Well, I had to train for 6 ****ing months to t2 fit my rapier! I want to enjoy it, not have some snotnosed brat who started yesterday be able to compete with me! Is that not what your doing now? Whining about whiners? Yeah GG on the /fail to you for being someone you hate your self! Dude are you serious? This coming from a matar? I bet you got a super hyped up vagabon that can do like 1billion km/s. I love people who are whining about the speed changes and don't even understand the fact that their nanoed out vagabon and snake implants are still gonna get their ship cruising pretty freaking fast.. Your thread just drips of uninformed, quickly posted, out of frustration crap! Yes straight up utter crap. In every way form and fashion, have you even logged into the test server to try out the speed changes, or did you just come in here whining that your 6 month old training is going to be ruined.. OMG you mean the ship is now going to do what it was met to do?!!?!?!? THEY ARE NERFING ALL SHIPS SPEEDS, THAT MEANS IF YOUR SHIP WENT FASTER THEN OTHER SHIPS IT WILL SILL STILL GO FASTER THEN OTHER SHIPS!!!!!!!!! Well with the inty not included of course. They are simply making it a bit harder to run out of range in like .4 secounds, and so that you cant out run missiles, sense missiles damage is modified via speed and target size, instead of a hit or miss like turrets... OHH YEAH! You guys who complain about training for so long for nano ships.. you KNEW they were broken when you started training for them, thats why you trained for them... and yet now you whine that they are getting fixed... yeah well shouldnt have jumped on the bandwagon hey fan bois? Get over it adapt or stop playing.. personally I think that anyone who wants an unfair advantage or linear game play shouldnt be in eve.. so if you leave can I have your stuff?

Brocky Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:44:00 - [41] dunno if someone said this, but eve is kinda like real life. what do most people do for the first 15-17 years of their life? do i hear someone say school? if they want something easy, something that requires no skill and absolutely 0 planning? to this is say GO PLAY WOW!(World of Warcraft for those that dont know) with eve, as with everything you do in real life, requires some thought, some planning. why is this concept such a shock to everyone? King Of The Mountain
Get Sum	Posted - 2008.09.25 02:32:00 - [42] Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO I created this character the other day to just go get the basic pvp skills for tackling and frigate combat stuff, so I got to see the game from the new player perspective again. The 3x skills on my main train about as fast as a 1x skill on this piece of shit. This is the first thing a new player experiences when they come into the game, assuming they have a tutor sitting behind them, telling them what to do, then they know what to train in order to fly x ship and use x module, if they even know what modules to use. Which takes a tutor. Time and time again I hear from people that tried out eve only to be bored to tears during the first couple days, and then never logged on again. And honestly, why should they? CCP's response to the barrier of entry has always been "cry more eve is harsh" and this is to people that have just dipped their toe in the kiddy pool. This is EXACTLY my thinking! One of the best posts I read in months... For all people flame about wow and co. on these forums, there is one thing to be said for them: Accessability Now, I'm not saying get rid of the skill-system alltogether, because EVE is pretty much based on it. But like Maximum I started an alt recently and thought back to being a noob, how much it sucked then and how much more it must suck now... As a noob you see all the cool stuff and can't wait to play, only to find out that to do ANYTHING at a semi-competitive-level will take them literally MONTHS to attain (and that's a HIGHLY specialized character, not a good character with some versatility), without them even being able to accellerate the process... I'm sure the devs realize at least to some extent that the hole grows ever larger... But I wonder whether they can look through their blinders enough to save EVE from it's slooooow, agonizing slip into obscurity...
Lia Gaeren Caldari Pole Dancing Vixens	Posted - 2008.09.25 07:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Get Sum This is EXACTLY my thinking! One of the best posts I read in months... For all people flame about wow and co. on these forums, there is one thing to be said for them: Accessability Now, I'm not saying get rid of the skill-system alltogether, because EVE is pretty much based on it. But like Maximum I started an alt recently and thought back to being a noob, how much it sucked then and how much more it must suck now... As a noob you see all the cool stuff and can't wait to play, only to find out that to do ANYTHING at a semi-competitive-level will take them literally MONTHS to attain (and that's a HIGHLY specialized character, not a good character with some versatility), without them even being able to accellerate the process... I'm sure the devs realize at least to some extent that the hole grows ever larger... But I wonder whether they can look through their blinders enough to save EVE from it's slooooow, agonizing slip into obscurity... I have always thought of EVE as a second-stage MMO game - the kind of game you come to when you're worn out with the 'accessible' and easy games like WoW which are out there. That kind of 'newbie' isn't looking for more spoonfeeding, they want a challenging game, and that's what EVE is. Yes it is a cool game, but I would be wary of recommending it to someone entirely new to the genre. Let them get their feet wet in more accessible games first. I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years now (Meridian 59, EverQuest, Asheron's Call, DAoC, Horizons, and even WoW, before coming to EVE) and I had no trouble at all adjusting to the way the game works. I would rather need to train something for a long time to be good at it than to be automatically good at everything - otherwise the training is worthless and the game becomes boring with everyone good at everything. For me, WoW's problem is exactly that - every class is capable of soloing, admittedly some better than others, which makes it pretty dull and blurs the line between the classes.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.26 15:39:00 - [44] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 01/07/2008 03:55:21 Originally by: Berious Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time. I've been playing for 3 years now I would love to see them go. my simple idea was remove advanced skills and add in up to +10 implants. replace all +5 implants with +10 and such so the + 10 isn't more expensive. bam that takes literately 5 months of training time out the window. bam! that gives a huge disadvantage to players who regularly risk podding. Your idea provides an even greater incentive to huddle in hi-sec.

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