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Lady Aja Caldari No Angels Here	Posted - 2008.06.28 04:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. OP is a moron. fails to deliver suggested game change!
Saltrock	Posted - 2008.06.28 11:39:00 - [62] Missiles V Turrets A, Missiles ALWAYS hit. (unless target is 1, out of range, or 2 moving to fast) Missile TIP, In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. B, Turrets Don't always hit. if your a, out of range, or b, moving so fast the tracking can't keep up. So which is over powered you say?
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2008.06.28 13:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Saltrock Missiles V Turrets In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. :] Hence the reason missile boats should never fire on Primarys unless in real close range and should focus on secondaries and teritaries... Sig locked, I will not make fun of the forum mods
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. ffs - use a goon alt next time
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. ffs - use a goon alt next time Why should he use an alt? He should be commended, after all he is an experienced player in a big alliance, and even he is willing to admit that the griefer's favorite tool, turrets, need to get nerfed. Sounds like someone doesn't want their gank toy removed.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:32:00 - [66] I think their pretty balanced imho. The only thing I would change is that speed(nano) fit ships can't outrun missiles.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:36:00 - [67] Originally by: Windorian I seriously hope that you are joking. Since there has been ships, there have been weapons on ships. Space ships would be no different. If you fly it, you need to be able to protect it. Eve is based on an extension of humanity, originating on earth. The first weapons (aside from melee style, but a bit hard in space) were projectiles. The most common and effective weapons to date, are projectiles. Guided weaponry is more sophisticated, but is still fairly new (to us). In the distant future of eve, i assume, each culture would have begun just like we did, which is why they all use a variation of projectile weapons. Even caldari, the missile kings, have decent ships with hybrid weapons. Certainly, there are other things that could go in the high slots, but for certain ships, it just doesn't suit it's purpose. You wouldn't put a baby-seat on a jet-pack. So why build a ship for combat, and not use it's full firepower potential? Similarly, other ships are built this way as well. Missile boats get plenty of missile bays on the ships that need them. As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Please keep this thread RP-free. Thank you.
Gaelenus Gallente Federal Guard and Recon Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:55:00 - [68] you know you are very right, how is my mining lazer does no damage? thats not balanced at all i think ccp should look at the damage stats for mining lazers again they need a clear boost and would help balance out the turret issue..... what am i supposed to do if the roids start shooting mback with the damage stats set sa they are! seriously though i hope your joking...
Killer Kelly Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.06.28 16:02:00 - [69] Turrets aren't overpowered. Missiles are underpowered. ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.28 16:58:00 - [70] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 28/06/2008 16:59:55 Originally by: Gaelenus you know you are very right, how is my mining lazer does no damage? thats not balanced at all i think ccp should look at the damage stats for mining lazers again they need a clear boost and would help balance out the turret issue..... what am i supposed to do if the roids start shooting mback with the damage stats set sa they are! seriously though i hope your joking... I hope you are kidding. A ship with a lot of turret slots already has a huge advantage as it is able to fit plenty of combat turrets and use up a slot or two for mining lasers as well (as described in my last post). If you change it so mining lasers do damage in combat too, then that is a boost to turret slots that are already over powered! Currently, You are able to do omgwtf damage in PvP while still making ISK mining, but in your scenario, you will ba able to do omgwtfBBQ damage while mining A LOT MORE ISK!!!Turrets need a nerf, not a boost...

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.28 17:03:00 - [71] Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good.
Gjs312 A Murder of Crows.	Posted - 2008.06.28 18:26:00 - [72] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Originally by: Tasko Pal Edited by: Tasko Pal on 28/06/2008 03:14:00 It's not that hard to come up with a counter to turrents. For example, here's a t2 fit ship I use to gank cruisers and larger in low sec. It also works well for ratting against angels who are often known to use turrents. Hulk: Whoa whoa whoa... A Hulk? Have you looked at the training requirements for that ship lately? I shouldnt have to train MONTHES AND MONTHS to fly a SPECIFICLY SPECIALIZED ship in order to counter turret ships! This porves even more that they are way overpowered as this is the best way to counter them... Ok, that was the best one so far .
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.28 18:47:00 - [73] Troll post is obvious.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:00:00 - [74] The one thing I have a hard time with is figuring out "true" dps with missiles. So if I'm at 1m from target then its launcher rate x missile damage? Also what if i'm at 100km, How do I calculate the flight time?
Carth Reynolds	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:13:00 - [75] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good. I'm not concerned with DPS, especially from HAMS (~600 DPS from 20km in a Drake is not what I'd call underpowered). I would like to see a reasonable explosion velocity out of one of the two though. As it stands if a nano ship moves faster than 3k/s I simply cannot hit them for damage with a medium class missile. And 3k/s is an easily attainable speed on most nano ships.
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:49:00 - [76] missiles and turrets are overpowered. boost tractorbeams!
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:54:00 - [77] Why tractors? Mining Lasz0rz should be able too do damage! This way they have another use exept for simply mining. Somebody set up us the bomb
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Elhina Novae Why tractors? Mining Lasz0rz should be able too do damage! This way they have another use exept for simply mining. Ehemm. Originally by: Arkios Odymei Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 28/06/2008 16:59:55 I hope you are kidding. A ship with a lot of turret slots already has a huge advantage as it is able to fit plenty of combat turrets and use up a slot or two for mining lasers as well (as described in my last post). If you change it so mining lasers do damage in combat too, then that is a boost to turret slots that are already over powered! Currently, You are able to do omgwtf damage in PvP while still making ISK mining, but in your scenario, you will be able to do omgwtfBBQ damage while mining A LOT MORE ISK!!!Turrets need a nerf, not a boost... ------------------------------------------------------------------
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:48:00 - [79] This thread is stupid. Not because it's a troll, but because the point it's trying to make is ridiculous. Something can't be overused when nearly every ship in the game is designed to do it. DPS / Tank will never and can never be "overused". Now if people started flying industrial ships into combat fitted with rails (commonly, that is) then we'd have a story. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.06.28 21:22:00 - [80] OP You forgot that mining lasers are turrets! They take a turret slot and destroy asteroids faster than anything else in the game! (Except strip miners). They can be fitted to almost any ship in the game, but some ships are better at killing asteroids than others using their turrets. This is clearly overpowered. Please have this included in your rebalancing on turrets. -- Don't harsh my mellow

Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.28 22:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.28 22:32:00 - [82] Edited by: Haakelen on 28/06/2008 22:35:52 Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true. I read something that could be interpreted to almost mean that in an OFFICIAL CCP DEV BLOG which was only like a year and a half old, so it must be correct and entirely relevant to this situation right now.
Rah MunRi	Posted - 2008.06.29 00:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! Lets go back to the whole joke part. we all pay to play so because you dont like turrets the ones of us who do should scale down cause it dont fit your way of play. and if it cost more it should be better. want better stuff pay more for it. want crap pay little how it works. so because I buy the best for my ship I should be the same as a person who buys crap. because I outfit my ship for max abbility I should be the same as a person who fits odds and ends and dont match up. You need to rethink things IMO.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.29 02:16:00 - [84] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Originally by: Tasko Pal Edited by: Tasko Pal on 28/06/2008 03:14:00 It's not that hard to come up with a counter to turrents. For example, here's a t2 fit ship I use to gank cruisers and larger in low sec. It also works well for ratting against angels who are often known to use turrents. Hulk: Whoa whoa whoa... A Hulk? Have you looked at the training requirements for that ship lately? I shouldnt have to train MONTHES AND MONTHS to fly a SPECIFICLY SPECIALIZED ship in order to counter turret ships! This porves even more that they are way overpowered as this is the best way to counter them... Oh come on. whining over only a few months of training? That's a new low for this place. And you can use these skills in pvp. For example, the other day I fitted a strip miner I in place of one of my neuts. I was orbiting a thorax in a belt and mining five (!) nearby veld roids. Then I went through some scordite and kernite. Just a few of the awesome things you can do with a pvp hulk. Look it just doesn't take that much training and these skills really help in pvp. You don't need many level 5 skills to fly the hulk, astrogeology, mining barges, industry. And a few level 4's, mining, science, and spaceship command. You probably have most of these already and don't realize it. I suppose you're still going to whine about how that gets in the way of your plans to pick up Margin Trading or something. The only question you have to ask yourself: "Do I want to PWN turrent ships?" If the answer is yes, well there you go. In fact, you kind of need this high skill barrier otherwise everyone would be flying these things. I want to keep them below the CCP radar to avoid anti-air nerf missiles, if you know what I mean.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.29 02:58:00 - [85] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23 Originally by: Tasko Pal Oh come on. whining over only a few months of training? That's a new low for this place. And you can use these skills in pvp. For example, the other day I fitted a strip miner I in place of one of my neuts. I was orbiting a thorax in a belt and mining five (!) nearby veld roids. Then I went through some scordite and kernite. Just a few of the awesome things you can do with a pvp hulk. Look it just doesn't take that much training and these skills really help in pvp. You don't need many level 5 skills to fly the hulk, astrogeology, mining barges, industry. And a few level 4's, mining, science, and spaceship command. You probably have most of these already and don't realize it. I suppose you're still going to whine about how that gets in the way of your plans to pick up Margin Trading or something. The only question you have to ask yourself: "Do I want to PWN turrent ships?" If the answer is yes, well there you go. In fact, you kind of need this high skill barrier otherwise everyone would be flying these things. I want to keep them below the CCP radar to avoid anti-air nerf missiles, if you know what I mean. You still dont get it. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO TRAIN FOR SOMETHING THAT I DONT WANT TO! How can you not understand this!?!? My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:36:00 - [86] Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/06/2008 22:35:52 Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true. I read something that could be interpreted to almost mean that in an OFFICIAL CCP DEV BLOG which was only like a year and a half old, so it must be correct and entirely relevant to this situation right now. What are you getting at? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Aesynil Caldari The Unit...	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:48:00 - [87] Originally by: Haakelen yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer. TBH, I stopped reading here. Completely nonsensical, phrased in such a certain way. It's like, you know it's total BS, and it's obvious it's BS, but he sounds so certain, by the end of the post, you're nodding and rerolling missiles! Got a lol out of me :)
Hanzo Starr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.29 04:16:00 - [88] Originally by: Wet Ferret This thread is stupid. Not because it's a troll, but because the point it's trying to make is ridiculous. Something can't be overused when nearly every ship in the game is designed to do it. DPS / Tank will never and can never be "overused". Now if people started flying industrial ships into combat fitted with rails (commonly, that is) then we'd have a story. So you identify the troll and then argue with it? I'm not sure you understand how this works.
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 05:54:00 - [89] rohk, paper, scissors, (see what I did there?). If someone flies an expensive T2 or faction ship, they get 0 insurance on it. if you are smart, and you bring just two people with you in T1 ships, both of you ECM, weapon disrupt, energy neut, warp jam, and web that expensive ship. Now its doing 0, count 0 DPS, while you're pounding it to hell and back. Expensive loss for one side. Never underestimate the damage potential of a bunch of (smart, EW using and well thinking) newbs in T1 ships. in the FW where only level 1 ships are allowed (destroyers and frigates), ECM and weapon disruptors fitted with the optimal mod eat destroyers alive, due to their lack of a damage bonus, and their 25% penalty ROF. then you nerf their class specific bonuses back to frigate status, and they become simple a frigate that tanks damage, and does low DPS. play smarter not harder imo
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 05:56:00 - [90] Originally by: Saltrock Missiles V Turrets A, Missiles ALWAYS hit. (unless target is 1, out of range, or 2 moving to fast) Missile TIP, In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. B, Turrets Don't always hit. if your a, out of range, or b, moving so fast the tracking can't keep up. So which is over powered you say? I like my small gang tactic of having half missile users use something that shields are weak too, i.e. thermal and EM, while the other half use the best vs armor, explosive and kinetic. one group fires on the primary until the shields are gone, then moves to the secondary, while the armor raping group finishes the primary off quickly. rinse, repeat. most efficient way to kill off enemy ships.



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