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Gotrek Gurnisson
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Posted - 2008.06.26 09:26:00 -
[1]
I recently decided I needed to expand the range of ships I fly because Amarr ships suck against Angels, Guristas and Serpentis. I was originally going to stick with Armor tanking - but then had a last minute change of heart and decided to get myself a Ferox for a number of reasons:
1) I already had the skills to fly the ship, including BC V; 2) I wanted to get a feel for Active shield tanking (which I believe is required for a Raven / Rokh, rather than a passive setup for which the Drake excels); 3) Its a gunboat. I only have 20k in missile skills, compared to 1.5M SP in gunnery; 4) Its considerably cheaper than buying a new Battleship; 5) I already have plenty of spare loot in my hangar to fit out BC sized ships with half decent gear; 6) The tanking bonus should help offset my limited shield skills;
I looked back through the forums and the standard Railox fit seems to be something along the following lines:
High: 6 x 250mm Railgun, 1 x Heavy Missile Launcher Med: 1 x Large Booster, 1 x LSE, 2 x Hardeners, 1 x Whatever Low: 2 x PDU II, 2 x Mag Stab II
So my questions are:
a) Is this a reasonable fit to get started with on L3's? b) What rigs should I look at fitting? c) Whats the best way to active shield tank? Perma-running versus boosting as required?
NOTE: Yes, I know a Drake is far superior for running L3's - but I already have my Amarr BC and BS to do that in. Im just looking for a ship to play around with and get a decent feel for shield tanking before I decide if I want to train up Caldari BS and buy a Raven / Rokh.
Thanks for any other help or advice you can give.
Gotrek
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.26 09:38:00 -
[2]
The Ferox also excells at passive shield tanking just like the Drake and for the same exact reasons (resist bonus and fast shield recharge). You can do active tanking with either of them, it's just that the passive shield tank will tend to be, at worst, as good as the active one but with no cap worries.
That setup shouldn't have a problem with level 3's though. But, heavy missiles are superior to railguns in dps if you want use ranged ammo, and if not then they are superior in range (which is important in many missions).
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Gotrek Gurnisson
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Posted - 2008.06.26 09:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Hannobaal The Ferox also excells at passive shield tanking just like the Drake and for the same exact reasons (resist bonus and fast shield recharge). You can do active tanking with either of them, it's just that the passive shield tank will tend to be, at worst, as good as the active one but with no cap worries.
The question is - can you passive tank a Raven / Rokh succesfully? Im basically trying to get a feel for how a mini-raven / rokh behaves tanking wise - and from all the forums articles I have read was led to believe that active tanking was the way to go on Caldari BS for L4's?
Im also hoping that my Amarr background will pay dividends as all my cap skills are IV+ to start with - and EFT reckons I will only need 1 or 2 CCC rigs to be completely cap stable with the above setup (depending on how many PDUs I fit).
Is a Large booster overpowered for L3's? Or am I better permarunning a medium booster?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.06.26 10:26:00 -
[4]
For level 3s, you don't need a booster. Fit 2-3 LSE II + hardeners and you'll be fine.
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.26 10:27:00 -
[5]
passive tanked raven/rokh works for lvl3's but you'll fall short on lvl4's as an active tank is better on BS sized ships.
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AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.26 11:56:00 -
[6]
Quote: 1 x Whatever
Make that a Web and you are good to go for level 3s.
I tend to favor 200mm rails on the ferox for non-snipeing stuff. They track better and there is enough free grid/cpu for a pretty beefy active tank.
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Gotrek Gurnisson
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 26/06/2008 12:12:25
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Make that a Web and you are good to go for level 3s. I tend to favor 200mm rails on the ferox for non-snipeing stuff. They track better and there is enough free grid/cpu for a pretty beefy active tank.
Thanks for the information. I originally put 250mm's into my build for the extra range, but with the Ferox's native range bonus the smaller guns (with better tracking) and a webber for close in stuff seems to be the way to go.
Just a shame that the Ferox will be putting out a paltry 200dps when my Harbinger manages 450dps at greater range. And yes, I realise Im comparing a Tier 1 BC to a Tier 2, but my dps in a Drake would be about the same as the Ferox!
Oh well, at least it will make life more 'interesting' when running L3's......
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Darling Hassasin
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:16:00 -
[8]
I have never used Ferox on missions (well I used the old missle Ferox a century ago) but I have used an Eagle for speeding Lvl 3s and my belief is its quicker than any missle ship. You just have to lock stuff and keep pressinf F1-F5 and things dissapear (frigs)as they appear. lock pop lock pop lock pop
That was with 3xmfsII mind you but with only 4 turrets so you should be doing roughly the same with good gunnery skills. + Keep the 250s if you have room for a web. They kill npcs at ranegs that mean you dont need AB and you dont have to move. Warp in lock everything pop everything warp otu.
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Kirith Kodachi
Katana Securities Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Stefan F passive tanked raven/rokh works for lvl3's but you'll fall short on lvl4's as an active tank is better on BS sized ships.
I totally agree that active tank is better on the battleships, but you can run level 4s in a passive tanked Rokh as I have done so many times. There are only a couple missions where I had trouble (needing to warp out to recharge shields) and 90% of the missions were cakewalks with 3 LSE IIs and a couple hardeners.
That being said, I active tank now as it is better.
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.26 13:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 26/06/2008 12:12:25
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Make that a Web and you are good to go for level 3s. I tend to favor 200mm rails on the ferox for non-snipeing stuff. They track better and there is enough free grid/cpu for a pretty beefy active tank.
Thanks for the information. I originally put 250mm's into my build for the extra range, but with the Ferox's native range bonus the smaller guns (with better tracking) and a webber for close in stuff seems to be the way to go.
Just a shame that the Ferox will be putting out a paltry 200dps when my Harbinger manages 450dps at greater range. And yes, I realise Im comparing a Tier 1 BC to a Tier 2, but my dps in a Drake would be about the same as the Ferox!
Oh well, at least it will make life more 'interesting' when running L3's......
Your dps in the Drake would be much higher than the Ferox if you fit the same number of damage mods on both.
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Steamroll McGee
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Posted - 2008.06.26 13:50:00 -
[11]
If you really want to practice active shield tanking, drop that LSE for a boost amp. It'll make your boosting much more efficient.
Perma-running an active boost setup for shield is pretty night impossible without ALOT of money.
Practice your shield tanking with the rox, then rock a Raven, it's pure PVE sex.
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Gotrek Gurnisson
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Posted - 2008.06.26 14:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hannobaal Your dps in the Drake would be higher than the Ferox if you fit the same number of damage mods on both.
20k skill points in missiles, and 1.5M skill points in gunnery say otherwise
Problem is I have neglected missile skills for waaay too long, and in the short terms its quicker to simply cross trail onto rails than it is to train up for decent damage with Heavy Missiles.
Of course if I decide to go Raven then its kind of necessary to do it anyway .
To all the caldari flyers out there - how does the Rokh compare to the Raven for mission running, assuming roughly equal skills in guns a missiles (e.g. all relevant skills to IV)??
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AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.26 15:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hannobaal Your dps in the Drake would be higher than the Ferox if you fit the same number of damage mods on both.
6 x 250mm rail II with faction antimatter, 1 x HML II with faction ammo, 5 x Hobgoblin II and 2 x magnetic field stabilizer II on the Ferox = 331 dps with my skills
7 x HML II with faction Scourge, 5 x Hobgoblin II, and 2 x Ballistic Control Systems on the Drake = 384 dps with my skills
And the Drake would out-range the Ferox by faaaaar with that ammo.
Defenders and target sig radius. Those two combined bring both ships to an equal, in game, damage output. EFT never shows you the whole picture.
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.26 15:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 26/06/2008 15:53:01
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson 20k skill points in missiles, and 1.5M skill points in gunnery say otherwise
Not true. I was in the exact same position you are in now; I was using a Ferox for level IIIs right when the Drake came out and I had more SPs in Gunnery than you have now and a similar amount in missiles. A friend of mine convinced me to switch to a Drake and it blew the Ferox away in terms of raw damage. There's a few aside from the Drake being a higher Tier BC:
1. Turrets take really good skills to get best performance out of. I've got almost 5mil now and that's still not really considered 'peak' performance. Extra skills help missiles, but they will perform much better at lower SP levels than guns will.
2. Missiles have flexible damage types, Hybrids do not. Even though the Drake gets a bonus to Kinetic damage, loading up on EM missiles in a Drake will let you tear through Blood Raiders and Sanshas Nation missions far faster than you ever could with a Ferox using rails. Against Guristas and Serpentis, it's less obvious since they're weak to Kinetic and Thermal.
3. The Drake can hit from so much further away with max DPS that you'll spend a lot less time getting into range and more time killing. Flight time is obviously an issue, but your missiles will always get to your target faster than you can.
In short, for PvE, the Drake is simply superior in just about every way to the Ferox. Even with a full T2 tank and T2 rails with max skills, a Drake will out-perform it on EM-weak NPCs and be at least it's equal on everything else, plus it's a lot easier to fly.
Having said that, I did find the Ferox a lot more fun to fly while doing missions. It's part of the reason that I did most of my level IVs in a Rokh instead of a Raven. Come to think of it, I don't think I've actually owned or flown a Raven on Tranquility. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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