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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Eventy One on 12/06/2008 16:53:18 In our history, as a people, our work ethic and drive has enabled us to have success. This success has come at a cost. Our ability to colonize or terraform planets caused our our kindred race, the Gallente, to resent and fear us, though our efforts were not aimed against them.
Accordingly, we were forced to protect our accomplishment by securing the jump gates to our new systems, and in the mean while the Gallente secured their forces around Caldari Prime. This lead to the first conflict.
Recently our successes, colonizing Black Rise, expanding in the universe, and obtaining mineral rights from the Khanid Kingdom, all resulted in yet more resentment from the Gallente. Old wounds sometimes, don't heal. But notice that the Gallente do this to the Intaki too. Look at the history of the Syndicate, and look at the support some Intaki have given us, look to Mordus' Legion for evidence.
Much of this preceded Tibus Heth's rise to power.
Yet Tibus Heth, has been given power from the CEO's of our cherished companies. He did not abscond it, he was given it, and it was the corporations that gave it to him. Tibus Heth has also, never been an apologist about our successes. He has identified issues that trouble Caldari citizens, and not shied away from protecting our interest.
To the Caldari Apologists I say this then: If you do not like the fact we live in a corporate state - move to the Gallente federation. If you do not like the fact that the corporations have given Tibus Heth power, blame the corporations. If you do not like the fact we are at war with the Gallente, blame the man who rammed a ship into one of our corporations headquarters .. do not blame the man that is doing everything in his power to preserve what we have built towards.
If you have doubt about this, consider that Tibus Heth could have ordered our navy to Gallente Prime. Damage destruction and victory could have been far greater than it was, but our leader, the leader you fear and hate, showed restraint. This man you call mad, showed evidence that his is anything but. In giving the Gallente fair warning that we were there simply to re capture our home world, Tibus Heth prevented much more hostility than occurred. Notice the Gallente are still attacking our Titan, while we simply defend ourselves. This was a huge moral and physiological victory, by Tibus Heth, and the Caldari state - this victory was ours who have suffered the envy and hatred of the Gallente since ages past.
So, take your personal hatred of Tibus Heth somewhere else. Do not pretend to be proud upstanding Caldari citizens - for you are NOT and fool no one. Proud upstanding Caldari citizens support our state, our corporations, and our leadership.
We do not apologize for our successes, nor do we side with an openly hostile enemy in disparaging the man who leads our state. You are not proud upstanding Caldari citizens, you are cowards, traitors and apologists.
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Fabien Aldric
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:50:00 -
[2]
You speak wisely. It is indeed right to be proud of everything our Race has achieved, not to be ashamed of it.
THE STATE PREVAILS! |
Galen Darksmith
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:08:00 -
[3]
An' who th' hell are YOU?
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:10:00 -
[4]
Actually, the Angel Cartel is a much wiser place to move. There, bloodlines of all sorts co-exist.
I'm not going to argue with you here because it would just be a repetition of everything I have said thus far. This entire forum seems to be going in circles and no one is budging, nor should I really expect them to. I've spoken out on behalf of the Caldari for years. What have you done but rattle sabres, miss?
Heth tried saving some face by not controlling Luminaire. It will not save him time.
Enjoy roasting in the fire of war. I'll be there laughing at you when you come out a charred crisp, if you even come out at all.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:11:00 -
[5]
I can only imagine that this is at least partly a response to the Omerta Syndicates announcement of support for the State, since it closely follows your similar accusation during that press release.
Firstly, I would question your position in passing judgment on the Omerta Syndicate, or any other corporation, in this situation. You, yourself, speak of the actions of the State using terms like "we did"; "we live"; "we are" - especially coupled with glowing phrases about what "upstanding" Caldari citizens do. We, after all, are the ones who have volunteered our profits, our lives, and our actions in defense of the State. You, on the other hand, have not.
Secondly, the State is not the Empire. Heth is not the Emperor. Caldari corporations, as independent entities, have every right to question his motivations. If you do not realize this simple fact, then you are sadly lacking in your knowledge of State history.
If you want to question our support for the State, let your actions provide the example. Do not sit safely on the sidelines, protected by the very pilots and corporations you revile as traitors.
Shin's writings
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Galen Darksmith An' who th' hell are YOU?
I am tired of those claiming to be 'true patriotic' Caldari yet sound like they're actually Gallente in excusing the fact that we have Tibus Heth at the helm.
However, with respect to your question, I could ask the same of you.
To be honest I'm not really interested in the answer.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Eventy One on 12/06/2008 17:14:35
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda I've spoken out on behalf of the Caldari for years. What have you done but rattle sabres, miss?
You haven't obviously spoken on behalf of me for years, though it is possible you do represent other Caldari apologists. You clearly have an inflated opinion of your ability to represent other Caldari.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:14:00 -
[8]
You mean like you do now?
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda You mean like you do now?
I never claimed to represent all Caldari. That was you. I do represent those Caldari who like where the State is going under Heth's leadership, and I do represent those Caldari who tire of the Caldari apologists who ironically think themselves loyal.
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Gaius Proeliator
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:17:00 -
[10]
Considering the general attitude towards Heth has been accepting (and I am speaking of the proletariat, not the pod pilots who compose a small percentage of the State), then yes, she probably does speak for them. |
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:21:00 -
[11]
You claim to represent all Caldari by proclaiming the trueness of Heth's direction. I have fought for the best interests of the Caldari for years. I have spoken at the Caldari Prime memorial service. You on the other hand have only just recently started spouting inflammatory rhetoric.
I am loyal to the Caldari; 25 years under Ishukone, miss. If you question my loyalty you have already lost the argument. |
Darina Rea
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:28:00 -
[12]
Says the Angel Cartel supporter..
Ehmm, little underhand ofcourse, sorry about that.
Anyway, Heths 'bold and brave leadership' just reminds me of the leadership of the Gallente Parliament at around, say where they bombed and took Caldari Prime. All the Caldari shouted for a century or so that the Gallente were fascists, terrorists, landpickers, thieves, murderers, scum, you name it, for allowing that. Now the Caldari are all that, and apparently, proud of it.
I call that hypocritical. |
Derrys
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:08:00 -
[13]
It's the height of absurdity to suggest that we, as thinking beings, should support our nominal government, regardless of how far removed it has become from the ideals which have served as the basis of our society for over a century, simply because it's stamped with the Caldari ¬ logo.
If we watched the State slowly metamorphose until it was indistinguishable from the Federation, would you continue to maintain that we should blindly support it simply because it was once something we could be proud of?
Consistency demands that your answer to that question be "yes," because Heth has taken the first large step down that road.
To do what you suggest would require an unthinking slavish devotion that I don't think can be achieved without vitoc or the application of Sansha technology.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gaius Proeliator Considering the general attitude towards Heth has been accepting (and I am speaking of the proletariat, not the pod pilots who compose a small percentage of the State), then yes, she probably does speak for them.
This was exactly the point. The proletariat does not all despise Heth, just as the pod pilot community does not. It is the apologists who do.
I recognize that there are apologists within the State, and I do not claim all Caldari support Heth.
I do claim those who do not support Heth are disloyal, and exaggerate how many Caldari feel the same as they do.
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Karl Mattar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:21:00 -
[15]
I think you have your terms backwards.
An "apologist" apologizes and attempts to explain away the current government.
A "dissident" disagrees with the current government.
For example, Eventy One is the apologist here, while Omerta and 4th are the dissidents.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Eventy One on 12/06/2008 18:25:11
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda You claim to represent all Caldari by proclaiming the trueness of Heth's direction. I have fought for the best interests of the Caldari for years.
You know this really is irrelevant right? You commit the fallacy known as "the fallacy of Appealing to Tradition". As well you commit the fallacy of "Hasty Generalization".
Lets assume of a second that you do actually represent all Caldari, are you right that Heth is a problem for the Caldari state simply because you have fought for the interests of Caldari for years? Are you loyal because you have fought for the interests of Caldari for years? Clearly if over the course of the years you have exhibited distrust in Caldari leadership, be it State leadership, or corporate leadership - you have not fought for the interest of the Caldari people - though you think you have.
By appealing to your long standing service spouting this nonsense all you are reallying doing is committing a logical fallacy and showing us the magnitude of your foolishness.
Secondly, clearly do you not represent all Caldari. This does not imply you do not represent some Caldari, you do! However, you commit a second fallacy by claiming that "you have represented the best interests of the Caldari" for you represent only the interests of other Caldari apologists.
To represent my interests and others like me you would have to instill a sense of loyalty or national pride in that troublesome group that now act more like Gallente then Caldari and openly disparage Heth.
Finally, your claims and lack of knowledge does nothing to refute my claim that Caldari apologists are disloyal.
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BloodBird
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Eventy One *Want-to-be patriotic slander that paints the entire Caldari people in a very ugly colour*
RECAP:
- Caldari are better than the Gallente *Because I say and truly think so*
- I love Tibus Heth and don't like that people speak ill of him
- There was nothing strange about Heth's rise to dictatorship, you are all wrong
- People that don't like how things are around here you can get out, we have no right to voice diffrent oppinions in the State
- *I* know what a *true* Caldari is, everyone else is wrong
- Anyone that stand against this statement are traitors, cowards and 'apologists' (Whatever that is)
- Heth ordered the fleet not to bomb Gallente Prime becasue he's so gentle and kind
I have some newsflashes for you, delusional one.
Tibus Heth did not order his fleet to bomb Gallente Prime because:
1 - He could use the planet as hostage to keep the Federation fleets out of the State. 2 - IF he had bombed the planet, the federation fleets would have moved into State space (While most State war vessels were in Luminaire, boxed in by the rest of the Federation) and laid waste to anything they came across in pure anger and hate, while the State fleet could do little or nothing to stop them in time.
All your brain-washed slandering of your own countrymen does not halt the fact *YOU* are the foolish, and cowardly one in here. You freely boast how better you are and that anyone not agreeing with you are traitors (A rather insulting claim to any human that stands for what he/she believes) Cowards (Another insult) and 'apologists', whatever that is.
I know, and knew, truly great Caldari. Men like Otro Gariushi, and Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. Yes, I'll use his full name her this time to underline my point. I respected his stand, his will to support his kin, his level-headedness, and the fact he thinks nearly exactly like I do despite diffrences. Up until now, I've only used his code-name out of respect. This will be the only time I do as well, unless he states otherwise.
These two examplify Caldari people that are truly GREAT, in any sense of the word. They do not ask for war to settle childish disputes. They allow freedom of speech and the right to disagree. They accept the existance of people who are diffrent, and think diffrently. They stand by, and if needed, fight for, their people. the list goes on but space is limited.
Tibus Heth is none of these. YOU, foolish, delusional one, is none of these. And through the fact you keep dribbling you crap on these forums, instead of aiding your fellow countrymen in the war, YOU are the only one to deserve the insult of 'coward'.
By the way, you can calm down your urge to whip your people into war while hiding away yourself. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of Caldari aligned Capuleers charging into my homelands every day. The effort you and your fellow warmongers across the borders have devised has paid off, we are at war. My enemies are legion, they are everywhere, and we are hard pressed to keep them away. But you know what, delusional one? It does not matter. ANYONE that seeks to destroy what we have built will face death. It annoys me to a great deal to have to say this, but I WILL coldly strike down ANYONE that seeks to harm my people.
And I blame it on despicable, useless scum like you, that it even came to this point.
Sig source |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Karl Mattar I think you have your terms backwards.
An "apologist" apologizes and attempts to explain away the current government.
Here is how I use the word apologist. I am glad to assist in your education.
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Galen Darksmith
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Eventy One You commit the fallacy known as "the fallacy of Appealing to Tradition".
.
Yeah, Caldari sure as hell ain't 'bout tradition.
F***in' Gallie plant.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Eventy One on 12/06/2008 18:29:55
Originally by: BloodBird There was nothing strange about Heth's rise to dictatorship, you are all wrong
Are you daft? You realize that in a corporation, you as an employee have absolutely no say, what-so-ever in who your CEO is? Do you realize in a corporate state, it is the CEO's who decide who holds the reigns of power.
Heth is not a self proclaimed dictator. He was chosen by the CEO's. They had a choice though you do not.
Apparently you don't even realize that you are Gallente Bloodbird.
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Karl Mattar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:29:00 -
[21]
Thank you for proving my point.
From your own source:
Quote: Colloquial usage Today the term "apologist" is colloquially applied in a general manner to include groups and individuals systematically promoting causes, justifying orthodoxies, or denying certain events, even of crimes. Apologists have been characterized as being deceptive, or "whitewashing" their cause, primarily through omission of negative facts (selective perception) and exaggeration of positive ones, techniques of classical rhetoric. When used in this context, the term often has a pejorative meaning.
Continue to defend Tibus Heth, apologist.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Galen Darksmith
Originally by: Eventy One You commit the fallacy known as "the fallacy of Appealing to Tradition".
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Yeah, Caldari sure as hell ain't 'bout tradition.
F***in' Gallie plant.
I fear the problem in Caldari society is actually a lack of education. "the fallacy of Appealing to Tradition" is the fallacy committed when someone makes an argument where something is correct simply because it is older, or more traditional.
The Gallente plant are those who whine and bemoan Tibus Heth. I celebrate him because I see him as the true Caldari his is. Only Gallente, and Caldari apologists fear Heth.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:34:00 -
[23]
Haha, I think I like you, Mattar.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Karl Mattar Thank you for proving my point.
From your own source:
Quote: Colloquial usage Today the term "apologist" is colloquially applied in a general manner to include groups and individuals systematically promoting causes, justifying orthodoxies, or denying certain events, even of crimes. Apologists have been characterized as being deceptive, or "whitewashing" their cause, primarily through omission of negative facts (selective perception) and exaggeration of positive ones, techniques of classical rhetoric. When used in this context, the term often has a pejorative meaning.
Continue to defend Tibus Heth, apologist.
... or deny certain events, ...
Sounds like you and your ilk deny Tibus Heth is rightful place as our leader does it not? Sounds like the former status quo (of quibbling corporations and lack of unified leadership) is the issue at stake.
I don't care of you label me an apologist, if what we are talking about is supporting our leader. At least I am loyal.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:37:00 -
[25]
I'm not even going to go on because you're just shooting yourself in the foot now, miss. This is truly a laugh.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda I'm not even going to go on because you're just shooting yourself in the foot now, miss. This is truly a laugh.
That you will cease to spout off your disloyal brand of Gallente propaganda and try to frame it as patriotism pleases me.
I don't really care what excuse you give for stopping. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:42:00 -
[27]
Gallente propaganda? No, no, no, I'm an Angel propagandist. |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Gallente propaganda? No, no, no, I'm an Angel propagandist.
Ah. My mistake. |
Karl Mattar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:45:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Karl Mattar on 12/06/2008 18:45:27
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Karl Mattar Edited by: Karl Mattar on 12/06/2008 18:45:27
... and I like you too .. when you're silent. |
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