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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 08:27:00 -
[1]
One common abuse this game does suffers from is the acquisition of skill & research points ("resources") from accounts that do not pay to play. We would all be against some sort of daily isk stipend given to all players why are we okay with this situation.
Did I leave Eve at one point in the past? Yes. Did I set a battleship V to train while I was gone? Yes.
Of course in equal measure I was gone for 4 months and no I did not reactivate and start new training and deactivate. I have never made secondary accounts that farm the game from an inactive state. In fact, I only have two accounts (since 2003) and I only have two mains who do some research.
Mind you I don't think others should play the game my way but I do think that if others want to compete with me they should be required to actually play the game. And the gain of resources is competing with myself and everyone else.
Stop the injustice, stop the abuse. Account expires, suspend all resource gain.
Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
AltBier
Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:17:00 -
[2]
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Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:21:00 -
[3]
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Lee Scoresby
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:36:00 -
[4]
I don't think this creates any balance issues.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lee Scoresby I guess I sort of agree about research points, but I don't think there's a problem with allowing one skill to finish when an account is inactive. Overall, I don't think it's worth bringing up.
Well I think having a range of issues, both large and small, gives the CSM, the first CSM, the chance to reap rewards that take little work, and would make it into game faster, while everyone waits for the bigger ideas to be implemented. And two things I'd add here, if I remember rightly this is something implemented on Eve-China. When Eve-Everyone Else heard of it the screams of worry and outrage were rather pronounced. Now, a good bit later it may be a good time to revisit the idea since, at least in the market forum, we've seen major economic vehicles fully built out of maximizing expired account resource gain. I think it would be hypocritical to put a stop to one form of free resource gain and not another. Secondly, I also realize that this idea is not going to be popular. After all, how many people you know sometimes say, "Bah, I'm going elsewhere for a month and I'll just let [insert_long_skill] train while I pay a CCP competitor instead."
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:07:00 -
[6]
I disagree with this.
If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy. Plus, you can follow the markets and sell the datacores when it's profitable, or daily, rather than trying to offload a zillion every 6 months at a loss. There already are tools in place for you to actively compete.
I also think that the majority of your competition ISN'T expired accounts; rather it's active accounts, the PVP'er or the industrialist who otherwise spends his day playing other aspects of the game, but is also getting some extra income from the RP's.
As far as the skillpoints, we've always had that bonus and it's nice. People get bored of the game and need to take a break, if you take away their Battleships V should they return, they may not return.
So, I disagree. It's a nerf that's not needed; you can already compete in an active way, and nerfing this would result in a loss of players (however small).
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Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:41:00 -
[7]
These things are rewards for not playing the game, I thought the whole point of CCP was to have us playing and using the game, paying accounts to have any benefit...
I can't understand why this is still in. If someone wants to talk about bad things and character farming, allowing to put a 1 month skill every two month for free, it's bad... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:51:00 -
[8]
training warfare link specialist V on my trail account while it is inactive. Going to train up hopefully 3 hulk pilots in a few months using the trail + 1 gtc thing if possible. after the initial training time you want to know something? I will need them in game and working to pay for their gtcs so they won't be expiring again soon. leave it as it is. it encourages other people to make accounts and get ccp more money. my main is a hulk pilot. turns out mining is less isk an hour than ratting or missioning but scales much better.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy.
Well this is something of a digression into another area I think long overdue for overhaul as well. The fact that by doing nothing someone can make half as much as I do, in fact they can be coasting on an expired account as well, makes actively missioning your R&D agent a fools errand. Mind you, I'm not impoverished by these matters. Not everything aired is because there is a direct gain for the person championing the cause. I'm well known, for many years, not for my whining but for my thinking & speaking. This is a small thing that could use some critical (& objective) review and debate.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:10:00 -
[10]
No.
Part of what makes Eve better than other MMOs is that you can take breaks without messing up your training.
Or, like me, go without internet involuntarily for three freakin months (thank you Embarq for having a single-digit IQ) without losing much in the way of training time.
People have real life issues that are more important than a video game. CCP recognizes this and that is part of why I like this game so much.
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
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Frecator Dementa
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:43:00 -
[11]
no. just no ----------------------- forum ate my post again |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:55:00 -
[12]
No thanks. Being able to have your skills still training even if your account has expired is a pretty powerful inducement to keep coming back to the game, IMO.
You may have found the game rather stale and boring, but you set up BS V before you left. Your account may have expired last week but suddenly you remember "Hey! BS V finished training a couple days ago! I can fly cap ships now!" and you go and re-sub your account. Happy ending for all concerned, I'd say.
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Lord Fitz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 02:04:00 -
[13]
I would like to see these as seperate issues, RP gain wouldn't be that effective if it was just the odd player doing it, but given that the very isk made from RP is the cause for some players to have entire alt-accounts that can afford to be activated every 6 months etc by GTC to give them a boost of isk, I think that it has become an issue. Albeit a minor one.
SP gain while inactive I think is a non-existant issue given that you only get to finish the current skill, and that skills of one player don't really detract from another players experience.
Datacore gain reduces the value of datacores so reduces that which 'real' players have gained.
I think in some respects the recent nerf bat that has hit GTCs while hurting real players, also hits the passive datacore farmers, since they now have to wait twice as long before it's worth reactivating those accounts.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.04 23:16:00 -
[14]
Why not stop any SP/RP gain for chars that are not online then? Dear OP, you're a moron. Period. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.05 02:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Why not stop any SP/RP gain for chars that are not online then? Dear OP, you're a moron. Period.
Dear poster, thank you for your response. I can see it used up all of your capabilities. In return I'd like to add, better to be a well known sometimes moron then a totally unknown forever waste of space. Fare you well, may you troll another and I hope gtc prices aren't too high when you reactivate your datacore farming expired accounts.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2008.06.05 11:09:00 -
[16]
I would agree with OP if it was only about acquiring assets (e.g. Research Points), and research was something the player participated in...as it is, it is an NPC driven function, and therefore has no bearing on whether the character is active or not...
So, not supporting this idea ---------- |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:00:00 -
[17]
Why is gaining SP with an inactive account such a problem?
The training to Battleship V is useless without the ISK to support the next purchases. If you have the ISK, one presumes you're contributing to the game in some way (paying for someone else's gametime, or having a fleet of mining alts, etc).
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Rutoo
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:36:00 -
[18]
Some people go away for military or work means So they decide not to pay but set a long skill training,
Although it may be hurting CCP's bottom line, They are likely to lose more people if they stop RP/SP gains. Why? cause coming back to after being away and having a few more SP is good for player moral _________________________________________________________ My Second EvE Video Club Seals Not Sandwichs
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2008.06.05 12:58:00 -
[19]
Turning on EVE Online and opening your character sheet to click once over it is not playing the game. Also very few people have the godly patience to be waiting 4-6 weeks for a single level of some skill to finish. People play MMOs game with achievement being primary fun factor. If you force people to train all the long skills while they are subscribed and playing they will have to go long time without achieving anything skill-wise and this will subtract from the fun of the game.
guide to game time codes |
hamster humpster
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Posted - 2008.06.05 13:02:00 -
[20]
i disagree
1) expired account RP = cheap datacore = cheap T2 stuff = more players can afford to use good equipments
2) expire SP benefits a lot of ppl, and does not affect others
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.05 13:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
Congratulations on torpedoing your own argument in your final paragraph
Well, I *suppose* a mid-way solution would be acceptable : instead of leaving it like it is, instead of making it how you suggested, you could have both SP/RP gains halved while not active. This leaves in the incentive to return, but puts the inactive "farmers" at a distinct disadvantage.
Still don't like the idea all that much... though I agree it's mildly unfair.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.05 14:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T Congratulations on torpedoing your own argument in your final paragraph
Well you know me, I'm not afraid to face the fact that I might be wrong. Even if I'm the one who shoots my own idea down. Of course equally, you know I don't care if an idea is unpopular either (and it was obvious this one would be). Still, thought it worth bringing up even if it goes down in flames. What I'm most pleased about is the general good nature responses. People thought about the matter, respond yea or nay with good reasons either direction, and there was little trolling or flaming around. /me shrugs. That's enough of a win for me. Especially for me.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.05 15:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Letouk Mernel If you want to "compete" with expired accounts in the Research Points field, you can simply do the research agent's daily mission, and voila you get 2x the number of points compared to the other guy.
Well this is something of a digression into another area I think long overdue for overhaul as well.
When CCP introduced the research agents, we had to talk to each agent every day or we'd get NO POINTS until we did so. Very annoying that was. After they nerfed Research Points to give crap (datacores) instead of T2 BPO's, I guess they felt that removing that annoyance and letting us get some RP's without having to micromanage that crap was justified, considering the rewards.
I agree. All things considered, daily income from 4 high-standing agents is like, a couple hours mining Veldspar.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.06 02:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Letouk Mernel I agree. All things considered, daily income from 4 high-standing agents is like, a couple hours mining Veldspar.
This statement here demonstrates the issue I see: " Daily income from research agents can equal a couple of hours of mining veldspar." We all agree that anyone doing this kind of thing afk, using an industrial ship in a 1.0, is rather lame. Here we have the same thing though and the person who benefits doesn't even have to be paying to play Eve. They just afk gain several hours of mining veldspar everyday for as many months as the like and then just sign up for 60 days (now) and collect up all the profits. Firstly, we'd all be fools if we were not doing the same thing ourselves right now. Secondly, that still doesn't make it right no matter how much some of us like it. Gain without effort or investment is ... lame. It cheapens the Eve experience.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.06.06 04:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
One common abuse this game does suffers from is the acquisition of skill & research points ("resources") from accounts that do not pay to play. We would all be against some sort of daily isk stipend given to all players why are we okay with this situation.
Did I leave Eve at one point in the past? Yes. Did I set a battleship V to train while I was gone? Yes.
Of course in equal measure I was gone for 4 months and no I did not reactivate and start new training and deactivate. I have never made secondary accounts that farm the game from an inactive state. In fact, I only have two accounts (since 2003) and I only have two mains who do some research.
Mind you I don't think others should play the game my way but I do think that if others want to compete with me they should be required to actually play the game. And the gain of resources is competing with myself and everyone else.
Stop the injustice, stop the abuse. Account expires, suspend all resource gain.
Now, I think that allowing expired accounts to gain anything may be more "marketing" than it is game balance. Knowing that your account will have that super long skill trained and a crapload of datacores to sell if, or when, you decide to come back is likely a strong inducement for people to return to Eve.
(Wow, typed that last paragraph and I realized I've got nowhere to go from here.)
post with your main ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Erotic Irony post with your main
Instead of treating you like a troll how about you tell me what you think about the issue. (You could save yourself some trouble over my mainness if you used something simple like eve-search, or google it ( this, this, and this) for some background, or visit eBank, or listen to the latest WDA: Industry Podcast.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:30:00 -
[27]
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 23:08:00 -
[28]
SP gain not so sure about, don't think it is that detrimental to the game, even if it makes sense (or rather doesn't make sense you still train skills after account expires)
But should definitely stop RP accumulating on dead accounts. Research Points are free isk imo and break the game anyway
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.08 23:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Fare you well, may you troll another and I hope gtc prices aren't too high when you reactivate your datacore farming expired accounts.
I don't have datacore farming expired accounts. So you have stated something that are obvious lie.
If you want natural example of the way you want EVE to go with your suggestion, go play Ragnarek Online, Lineage 2, or even Diablo 2 (easily obtainable nowadays and not required internet connection).
I may only guess, how fast you'll run away from these "natural examples". -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Krowst
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Posted - 2008.06.09 00:25:00 -
[30]
I would rather see a skills que in place, then to continue getting s.p. during expired times. The fact is that most people saying, this is not a good idea are bringing up valid points. But the problem is the chance for abuse (not saying that all those opposed to it, are abusing it, but I sure some of them are).
The problem comes in when people create a second account and train up an alt to sell and make BILLIONS of isk by exploiting a privilage given to us by CCP to help with those valid reasons mentioned.
So a possible solution is that you can still train but at 1/4 the speed or with something like for every 4 months countinuous subscrption to an account you can get 1 months worth of training on that inactive account but both these ideas would be more dificult than just getting rid of it all together
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