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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:21:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Draeca
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Did you know that wounding your target is much more effective than just killing it? That way you will take some of his mates out of the game for a while, because they have to take him to a cover and give first aid etc.
Or better yet, we can miss and scare him!
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Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny A personal .50?
Hope it has a 3 round burst mode
Isn't a Desert Eagle handgun a .50 calibre? So it is possible to shoe horn that bullet into a personal weapon. How many rounds does a Desert Eagle hold? Where does a .45 fit into the mix? What does the term "parabellum" mean, as I hear that applied to 9mm rounds?
Yes, the Desert Eagle does have a .50 caliber version (and a .45). However, .50 caliber is massive overkill for a pistol. The Eagle is expensive, not particularly accurate, has a relatively low rate of fire, and tends to overpenetrate (hitting what you're aiming at plus whatever is behind it), making it too powerful for police or military use. Its primary audience is movie productions and CS players who don't know any better.
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Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Gyfrex
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Considering you ain't fired a gun in your life mate. You should probably shush
Go back to your CCF circle jerks.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:32:00 -
[34]
Zephyr... try wearing about 110 lbs of armor, running a mile, having someone over 200 yards away firing at you with an automatic weapon and you try to shoot him in the head
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Micheal Dietrich
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:56:00 -
[35]
Silly people, it's not the size that matters, it's where you put it
On a side note though the M16 was designed with a smaller caliber for less recoil and better aim. The idea behind the bullter was to make a small hole but the velocity damgages a large area.
And a Desert Eagle would be too beastly on the field. Sure you'll take out that guy, and the wall behind him, and the wall behind that wall, but it'll put set you off as well.
Originally by: article Rules of war limit the type of ammunition conventional military units can shoot. The Hague Convention of 1899 bars hollow point bullets that expand in the body and cause injuries that someone is less likely to survive. The United States was not a party to that agreement. Yet, as most countries do, it adheres to the treaty, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross.
That's just stupid. We can drop a cluster bomb on ya but we can't shoot you with a hollow point. I use those all the time varmit hunting with my little marlin .22 longrifle.
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Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:49:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Fink Angel on 27/05/2008 17:49:42
OK, how about this for a personal weapon to kill someone not wearing any form of body armour:
Flechette round, with Tungsten main body ("Of all metals this element has the highest melting point , lowest vapor pressure and the highest tensile strength.Tungsten has the lowest coefficient of thermal expansion of any pure metal"), Lead tipped hollow point to mushroom on impact, White Phosporous inside the hollow point to cause burning and poisoning if the mushrooming lead head doesn't kill you right off. (Plus the fear factor or WP)
Using a Flechette would mean a high rate of fire could be sustained with less recoil. The soldier could carry more rounds onto the battlefield in his kit, and a magazine could carry more rounds too.
Or perhaps a larger version in a "discarding sabot" shotgun round?
Think I've got a future as a small arms designer?
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Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:06:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Frezik on 27/05/2008 18:08:30
Originally by: Fink Angel Edited by: Fink Angel on 27/05/2008 17:49:42
OK, how about this for a personal weapon to kill someone not wearing any form of body armour:
Flechette round, with Tungsten main body ("Of all metals this element has the highest melting point , lowest vapor pressure and the highest tensile strength.Tungsten has the lowest coefficient of thermal expansion of any pure metal"), Lead tipped hollow point to mushroom on impact, White Phosporous inside the hollow point to cause burning and poisoning if the mushrooming lead head doesn't kill you right off. (Plus the fear factor or WP)
Hollow points (specifically, bullets intended to expand in when they hit the target) are banned for military use by the Hauge Convention, though they're ubiquitous for police use (because they reduce the chances of overpenetration and ricochet). I believe any sort of burning or explosive bullet would also be banned.
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: article Rules of war limit the type of ammunition conventional military units can shoot. The Hague Convention of 1899 bars hollow point bullets that expand in the body and cause injuries that someone is less likely to survive. The United States was not a party to that agreement. Yet, as most countries do, it adheres to the treaty, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross.
That's just stupid. We can drop a cluster bomb on ya but we can't shoot you with a hollow point. I use those all the time varmit hunting with my little marlin .22 longrifle.
I could definitely see the argument that the Hague Convention is outdated on this point.
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Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Zephyr... try wearing about 110 lbs of armor, running a mile, having someone over 200 yards away firing at you with an automatic weapon and you try to shoot him in the head
Fine if you are unable to do this basic task just call in a bomber jet. Cluster bombs sound fun, benefits are they kill people and also **** of anti-war protestors in Dublin atm.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.
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Micheal Dietrich
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Zephyr... try wearing about 110 lbs of armor, running a mile, having someone over 200 yards away firing at you with an automatic weapon and you try to shoot him in the head
Fine if you are unable to do this basic task just call in a bomber jet. Cluster bombs sound fun, benefits are they kill people and also **** of anti-war protestors in Dublin atm.
Trying to stay alive is a basic task?
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Elysarian
dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2008.05.27 19:04:00 -
[40]
If I recall the 5.56x45mm round was chosen as a NATO standard size to help with logistics (reduce the number of round types supplied to the guys on the front line).
as for this:
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Obviously you haven't been trined by any military or law enforcement agency as, if you had been, you would know that best chance for a stopping hit is to aim for the torso - head is a lot smaller so you are more likely to miss under pressure.
I've heard some people ask why police always aim for a "kill" shot rather than aiming to immobolise/disable the target... simple answer is that someone shot in the arm/leg is still a threat to you, your colleagues and the public.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 19:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Silly people, it's not the size that matters, it's where you put it
On a side note though the M16 was designed with a smaller caliber for less recoil and better aim. The idea behind the bullter was to make a small hole but the velocity damgages a large area.
And a Desert Eagle would be too beastly on the field. Sure you'll take out that guy, and the wall behind him, and the wall behind that wall, but it'll put set you off as well.
I don't know what kind of walls you guys have, but the .50 AE has less kinetic energy than the 5.56 NATO and less than half the kinetic energy of the 7.62. It's a fairly powerful round for a handgun, but it's still pretty pathetic compared to a carbine or rifle so it's not going to do any penetration of any walls unless they're made from plaster. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
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Posted - 2008.05.27 20:13:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Frezik on 27/05/2008 20:13:44 Edited by: Frezik on 27/05/2008 20:13:33 Edited by: Frezik on 27/05/2008 20:13:17
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel I don't know what kind of walls you guys have, but the .50 AE has less kinetic energy than the 5.56 NATO and less than half the kinetic energy of the 7.62. It's a fairly powerful round for a handgun, but it's still pretty pathetic compared to a carbine or rifle so it's not going to do any penetration of any walls unless they're made from plaster.
On the contrary, let me present The Box 'O Truth. It's surprising how far even 9mm ammo will go through drywall and pine boards. Not as much as rifles, of course, but surprisingly far.
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Arron S
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.05.27 21:11:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Arron S on 27/05/2008 21:12:23 7.62x51mm NATO Ball is a nasty round,, so is the 5.56x45 NATO round.
Each type of Ammunition has its pro and cons, the 7.62x51mm gets better penetration threw solid objects, and is good for sniper rifles and light machine guns, and kinda makes a crummy assult rifle round becuase of the recoil which ****s up accuary .
While the 5.56x45mm is really effective at tearing threw flesh, and it a very good type of ammo for assault rifles, as its lighter to carrier and it accurate and has far less recoil when fired. the 5.56x45m has been adopted by NATO as standard for assault rifles and Simular rounds have been adopted by the Russians and used in the AK-74 which is standard issue in the Russian army. The Russians pulled the AK-47 from service in the 70's
The 12.7 x 99mm bullet is an excellent bullet for sniping. Longest confermed kill was set with this ammo type at 2,430, by a Canadian Sniper in Afgaistan using a Tac .50 Rifle.
Anyway Thats my two cents.
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pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.27 21:15:00 -
[44]
I say no matter what rounds we issue they should all be infused with pig blood somehow. Then begin announcing that we will be using rounds treated in such a manner.
Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.27 22:45:00 -
[45]
Originally by: pwnedgato Edited by: pwnedgato on 27/05/2008 21:18:37 Edited by: pwnedgato on 27/05/2008 21:17:52 I say no matter what rounds we issue they should all be infused with pig blood somehow. Then begin announcing that we will be using rounds treated in such a manner.
Edit: First of all a 5.56 round will in most cases kill anyone hit in the torso that fails to receive medical care. Problem is the "not moving anymore" part of death tends to come a bit later than most would like. Simply allowing hollow point rounds would fix almost any problem related to the 5.56. Now as far as switching to inherently more lethal rounds I have heard good things about those new caseless 6.8mm rounds.
That's a lie!!! We never put bacon grease on our rounds!
The 6.8mm round is the very definition of awesome... controls like a 5.56, hits almost as hard as a 7.62.
Glad someone finally brought it up
P.S We never put bacon grease on our rounds
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.27 22:51:00 -
[46]
Just don't mention that horrible 4.7mm round. They market that thing as a "armor defeater" or in other words "It'll pass through without them noticing".
Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
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nahtoh
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Hmm dip**** alert....
Just for your education you should be informed that in the UK as well center of mass is the target you aim for...
Go back to CS... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
nahtoh
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:19:00 -
[48]
Edited by: nahtoh on 27/05/2008 23:23:51
Originally by: Draeca
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Did you know that wounding your target is much more effective than just killing it? That way you will take some of his mates out of the game for a while, because they have to take him to a cover and give first aid etc.
Or he just for instance, primes a grenade hides under body, gets off a last shot etc...
Sorry but dead is better, there is a reason that checking bodies is a actual dangerous thiong to do sometimes...
Heres a quick poll...any other ex forces posting what you consider better wounding or killing a target?
we will count my entry as option number 2...
Old joke alert...
Officer speaking to sentry "Why did you shoot that man 30 times!!!!!" Sentry "it was all the ammo I had on me Sir!!" ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Nomakai Delateriel
Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Frezik On the contrary, let me present The Box 'O Truth. It's surprising how far even 9mm ammo will go through drywall and pine boards. Not as much as rifles, of course, but surprisingly far.
As said. Unless they're made from Plaster. Pine boards and drywall aren't all that much. I mean, even the freaking 9mm penetrated, and those are used in for example the MP5 because they rarely over-penetrate. You'd be surprised in how many places you can find where the exterior and interior walls are built from bricks. And carbines&rifles will still laugh at the .50AE round. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Benco97
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Posted - 2008.05.27 23:39:00 -
[50]
This thread is scary, you all sound so... Violent.. talking about the most effective way to kill people.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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nahtoh
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.28 00:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Benco97 This thread is scary, you all sound so... Violent.. talking about the most effective way to kill people.
Actually I am a lot more likley to try and stop fights than start them...dont confuse the ablity to do something with the doing of it.
Oh and if your may need to do something then you (whatever it is) why do it half assed? ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.28 00:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Benco97 This thread is scary, you all sound so... Violent.. talking about the most effective way to kill people.
The violence inside is like a dangerous animal that I keep in a cage. An animal that knows how and when to pick the lock. Would be the best way to put it really.
Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.28 02:20:00 -
[53]
The most effective way to kill someone is to hit them in the chest with a 120mm Sabot fired from an M1A1 Abrams
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Bish Ounen
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.28 02:28:00 -
[54]
I never served in the military (too young, liberal and stupid to realize how great serving could be.) But looking back on it, had I served, I would have trained day and night JUST to get the opportunity to wield THIS on the battlefield. Nothing like a .50 cal to bring the stopping power.
Respect to all who serve their country in Uniform.
*salutes*
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Micheal Dietrich
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.05.28 02:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Bish Ounen I never served in the military (too young, liberal and stupid to realize how great serving could be.) But looking back on it, had I served, I would have trained day and night JUST to get the opportunity to wield THIS on the battlefield. Nothing like a .50 cal to bring the stopping power.
Respect to all who serve their country in Uniform.
*salutes*
You can buy those for a mere $5000 in some areas. Don't know what you would do with it but you can buy it.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.28 04:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The most effective way to kill someone is to hit them in the chest with a 120mm Sabot fired from an M1A1 Abrams
This would actually scare me more. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.28 04:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Keorythe It takes multiple shots to drop someone with a 5.56x45. FALSE This was actually said about the 7.62x51 when it first replaced the .30'06. In actually the results were more often attributed to lousy marksmanship and hits to non-vital areas. Wound characteristics found by medical examiners during both Vietnam and Somalia showed devestating wounds in the chest and head areas. The largest urban legend to stem from this was the Mogudishu bullet kid. Everyone and their mom heard this rumor at some point in time or knows someone who thinks they saw it happen.
There were accounts in some areas of conflict where it took multiple 5.56s to bring people down(they were hopped up on drugs and were basically invinsible against nonheadshot under 50cal rounds)...Course in the longrun getting hopped up on drugs to fight is stupid, but for that 5 minutes, you need to empty your clip to kill them.
As for the subject at hand, I agree with the above poster, fragmentation rounds are alot better then non...To a certain point that is(the US 50cal rifles can rip your torso in two, at that point your pretty much KIA).
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pwnedgato
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Posted - 2008.05.28 05:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: goodby4u Course in the longrun getting hopped up on drugs to fight is stupid, but for that 5 minutes, you need to empty your clip to kill them.
Dunno about that have you seen that haze trailer? BOOSH!
Originally by: Crumplecorn These is a forum for this.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 05:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The most effective way to kill someone is to hit them in the chest with a 120mm Sabot fired from an M1A1 Abrams
120mm. Yeah. Sabot. Nah
Video of M1028 120mm Canister ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.28 06:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: pwnedgato
Originally by: goodby4u Course in the longrun getting hopped up on drugs to fight is stupid, but for that 5 minutes, you need to empty your clip to kill them.
Dunno about that have you seen that haze trailer? BOOSH!
Yes, well I would agree if the enemies were using nector
But sadly, the drugs they use just make them fearless and feel no pain which in turn means he might kill a couple of soldiers but he will bleed out soon enough.
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