| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Topic |
Judas Jones
Amarr
Black Company
    |
Posted - 2008.09.21 12:03:00 -
[91]
How many times must you people re-post the same crap over and over, Learning Skill's are not "forced" on people, it's a choice like implants, it has benefit's only if you invest time in it which applies to the whole of Eve so if you can't see the beneift of time investment then this is not the game for you.
|
Eaiaden
Minmatar
Baptism oF Fire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 11:32:00 -
[92]
Terrible idea, keep the learning skillz id say
 Originally by: Sean Faust
The Typhoon is an oddity. It is EXTREMELY versatile and can be fit just about any way you can imagine.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 12:25:00 -
[93]
did I post my idea here yet?
just get rid of the advanced learning skills.
then replace +5 implants with +10 implants.
bam instead of waiting 5 months people will want to log in and make isk to incease their skill progession.
too crazy?
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 12:26:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Judas Jones
How many times must you people re-post the same crap over and over, Learning Skill's are not "forced" on people, it's a choice like implants, it has benefit's only if you invest time in it which applies to the whole of Eve so if you can't see the beneift of time investment then this is not the game for you.
funny thing a dev himself said it 1st. during the last alliance tournament, he stated that learning skills where the worst mistake eve ever made.
|
Judas Jones
Amarr
Black Company
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 22:57:00 -
[95]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Judas Jones
How many times must you people re-post the same crap over and over, Learning Skill's are not "forced" on people, it's a choice like implants, it has benefit's only if you invest time in it which applies to the whole of Eve so if you can't see the beneift of time investment then this is not the game for you.
funny thing a dev himself said it 1st. during the last alliance tournament, he stated that learning skills where the worst mistake eve ever made.
and? Dev's got caught cheating last year, like there opinion counts for squat these day's, they have the vision of a blind man in a dark room with his head submereged in water.
|
Lia Gaeren
Caldari
Pole Dancing Vixens
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 07:28:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Judas Jones
and? Dev's got caught cheating last year, like there opinion counts for squat these day's, they have the vision of a blind man in a dark room with his head submereged in water.
As per the interview Noah Ward (chief dev) gave regarding the CSM Iceland meeting (the same one where he said that they wanted to see sweeping ideas coming through, not niggling little things), the impression I got was that he saw it as one of his main functions was squashing the sparkly & original ideas that new devs bring to the team, and giving them into the same jaded, elitist "I'm better than all of you so I could give a rat's bottom what you think" sort of person that he came accross as himself.
Personally I don't really care about the big ideas. EA holds no interest to me whatsoever, and from what I've seen of Ambulation so far I don't think I'm really going to care about that either... EVE is a game where details matter, fix the bl00dy details before adding a swathe of big new ideas. It worries me that in the latest newsletter (which I received yesterday, sorry to spoil the surprise if anyone hasn't had it yet), they boast about fixing 1000 bugs for EA, with the implication there were still a lot more to fix. When I read that I was horrified that there were even 1000 outstanding that they hadn't bothered to sort out, never mind that the true total is even higher. But what do I know - I've only been designing games (not on the computer) for 28 years so clearly I know jack about what makes good game design 
Sorry for off-topic rant 
|
Artharas
|
Posted - 2008.09.26 03:28:00 -
[97]
I have 5/4(and 3 adv. @ 5)
There is the beginning where a player is new(I'm speaking non-alt) he needs a bit of time to get his bearings. Having learning skills gives time for him to get to know the game before he gets confused by the variaty of things to do(I know my head was spinning when I started in 2003, even when I had my brother guiding me). This is even before we start talking about issues with macro miners and trialist exploitations opening up(having to many "Cannot be trained on trial" would surely annoy anyone valuating if he should play the game or not). So learning skills does serve a point(to some extend anyway).
On the other side, people say "It's your choice to train them", well sure it's your choice but you decrease your performance in the long run right away if you don't train them ASAP(and if starting now you're already 5 years behind which is hard enough to catch up to). Also I feel it makes the game even more confusing for a newbie to enter the world knowing little and being gimped by _a lot_ of training speed compared to someone who had a friend giving him heads up about learning skills. Learning skills aren't the same as any other skill since what you sacrifice with other skills by not training is efficiency of certain field or usability of certain module. What you sacrifice with learning skills is efficency to any field or usability to any module, that is until you have trained it.
And in the end, I don't feel it's much of a character progression to decide _when_ you train something, it is rather when you're deciding _if_ you train something.
Mechanic that stands due to "We had to do it, suck it up", well that is one failed mechanic. Personally I'm all for removing the learning skills(and adding base attributes by +11 or so) and giving those trained the option to spend the amount of SP in skills of their choices*. Don't see CCP caring enough though to do any changes, so meh.
PS. Someone talked about implants adding attributes, I feel that is still character progression and spices the game up for all involved.
*Mind this would have to be done in a bit more complex manner since you might suck at fx Charisma and rule at memory/int so using the SP for Charisma primary skills would give you advantage since all the basics are mem/int and 2/5 are dependant on them.
|
Lia Gaeren
Caldari
Pole Dancing Vixens
|
Posted - 2008.09.26 07:33:00 -
[98]
I agree that you're hurting the character in the long term by not training them, but you can certainly take a less focused approach than "omg! Got to train all these to level 5 instantly before I can do anything else!". After all, in 6 months' time will it really matter that the character took 2 hours longer to train Heavy Missiles than it otherwise would have done?
I don't believe that a new player would really have too many issues with how fast his skills train - certainly not so much he would quit because they were too slow. I didn't have an issue with it at all when I started. I gradually phased the higher levels of learning skills in with my other skills and it was not a drag to learn them at all. Yes sure, here I am 2 years down the line, probably a couple of days worse off than if I had learned them all immediately, but I've lost more training time than that just through forgetting/not being able to log in to change skills when they expire.
However, if you're that keen not to hurt the new player experience, boost a new player's skill point acquisition times by, say... 25%, reducing by 5% every week or two, and ensure that Aura has a section on skill training where she makes it clear that in order to maintain the skill point rate, certain skills need to be trained.
|
SoftRevolution
|
Posted - 2008.09.26 15:45:00 -
[99]
/sign
Learning skills are an obscene waste of a new players time and nothing else.
 |
Naga Elohim
Amarr
Forsaken Death Squad
|
Posted - 2008.09.26 16:11:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Naga Elohim on 26/09/2008 16:12:52
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Why are Learning skills in the game?
- A kind of hazing - we all had to do it, so, so shall you?
- A "test" for newbies to prove their loyalty to the game?
- A throttle for fun?
- CCP's equivalent of skinning boars until you get to level 70 leatherworking?
or is it
- A terrible terrible mistake?
I think CCP knows learning skills were a mistake; the fact that they haven't removed them is probably because they fear a backlash from older players (see point A above). I urge CSM to use your soap box to tell CCP that we the players will support the removal of learning skills. Discuss.
Because its much more acceptable to progress training than killing thousands of NPCs over....and over.....and over again
Learning skills is the best system ever and it shoudl not ever be taken out of the mechanics of the game.
0/10 for not giving good enough reasons.
|
|
jason hill
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.03 23:18:00 -
[101]
*sigh " im getting really miffed about these "mwaa" i cant be as good as the old players " threads .. mate just suck it up and do what we had to do learn the fkn skillz no im not a bought account ..ive been playing since 2003... if ya dont like it then find another game .. sorry but thats how i feel .in a nutshell if you want to suceed then persevere ..dont ask for it to be handed to you on a plate ..if you stick with it ..as i have done the eventually you to will be able to fly every ship .buying every ship is another matter though :0)...so basically stick withit an stop fkn moaning |
Rockstara
|
Posted - 2008.10.05 18:04:00 -
[102]
I think if you check out evemon on some starting attributes a 4/3 approach gets you very far. This isn't a hard train time-wise and is best mixed in with other things. Its a game after all. If people will stop the whole...zomgg for pwnage train all teh learning skillz first to 5/4. That and the advanced learning skills are kind of expensive for a noob. They are measured in millions!
|
Kenpachi Viktor
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 11:32:00 -
[103]
I had an old character, I maxed out all the learning skills, and I didn't see it as a long time. Now I have a new character, and if there were no learning skills it would take me twice as long to get to get to flying a BS with the necessary support skills.
The longer you are looking at playing the game for, the more learning skills you want, not less.
|
WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.10 09:03:00 -
[104]
Originally by: SoftRevolution
/sign
Learning skills are an obscene waste of a new players time and nothing else.
I'm sooo sorry for not having 20000 more noobs who want to play EVE for a couple of months and, after checking how hard the learning curve really is, they abandon for WOW-like games.
Pathetic.
EVE is all about patience. Those who disagree with this game mechanics, please leave and stop bothering about changing what a lot of people before than you sweated very hard and is enjoying right now.
|
Korovyov
|
Posted - 2008.10.12 20:44:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Korovyov on 12/10/2008 20:44:50
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Why are Learning skills in the game?
- A kind of hazing - we all had to do it, so, so shall you?
- A "test" for newbies to prove their loyalty to the game?
- A throttle for fun?
- CCP's equivalent of skinning boars until you get to level 70 leatherworking?
or is it
- A terrible terrible mistake?
I think CCP knows learning skills were a mistake; the fact that they haven't removed them is probably because they fear a backlash from older players (see point A above). I urge CSM to use your soap box to tell CCP that we the players will support the removal of learning skills. Discuss.
Amen. I've trained through all the learning skills nearly three times now. At best (having basic implants right away, well-spread stats) it's 45 days of wasted game time. At worst it's the #1 reason why people burn out and there are so few that make it past the 1 year mark. I used to be of the opinion that they were a choice, didn't need them, and they should remain. I've since grown up from such childish non-thinking. Ultimately there are two things to consider for an MMO: growth and retention. Learning skills run counter to both.
Here's my solution: CCP should sell characters that come with all of the basic learning skills at lvl5 and the advanced learning skills at lvl4 for $30-$50 (the cost of the 1.5 wasted months of game time + additional markup price gouging). Now instead of blowing cash on Power of 2 and grinding *two* characters through 2 months of wasted time, they can spend it on one character and start playing instantly. They also are not advantaged over people who actually took the 3 months to train the advanced skills to lvl5. I know this is unfair to people who have low incomes, but it's the best crackpot solution I can invent given my knowledge of MMO bottom lines and the absolutely terrible game-killing solutions that actually get adopted (nerf nerf nerf! hahaha! it's all fixed now!).
I can tell you that CCP is not going to remove their precious money sink skills, though. They're so damn scared of modifying their skill tree (bonuses notwithstanding) that it's become the disorganized mess we know and love (hate?) today.
|
Korovyov
|
Posted - 2008.10.12 20:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
EVE is all about patience. Those who disagree with this game mechanics, please leave and stop bothering about changing what a lot of people before than you sweated very hard and is enjoying right now.
EVE is all about mining veldspar for 6 months, griefing veldspar miners for another 6, and then blobbing from then on.
And growth and retention are the key elements to the MMO business. Or did you forget that CCP is trying to make a living off you? It's in their interests to increase both.
|
Lia Gaeren
Caldari
Pole Dancing Vixens
|
Posted - 2008.10.12 21:34:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Korovyov
Once you've got that figured out (a total of 1 week learning right there, tops), you warp in, hit your win button, warp out. Repeat as necessary, replace ships as required.
If you're needing to replace ships at all then you badly need a better 'win button'. Either that or it's not quite as straightforward as you make out...
I'm mostly looking forward to the next CSM elections so this post can finally die the death it deserves. Only posting in it again now because it's already at the top of the forum so I'm not bumping it
|
Korovyov
|
Posted - 2008.10.12 22:29:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lia Gaeren
Originally by: Korovyov
Once you've got that figured out (a total of 1 week learning right there, tops), you warp in, hit your win button, warp out. Repeat as necessary, replace ships as required.
If you're needing to replace ships at all then you badly need a better 'win button'. Either that or it's not quite as straightforward as you make out...
I'm mostly looking forward to the next CSM elections so this post can finally die the death it deserves. Only posting in it again now because it's already at the top of the forum so I'm not bumping it
You eventually need to crawl out of the Ibis, (or, if you're the 50% that didn't roll Caldari like the rest of us, one of the other three ships). From there you will probably want to get something larger than a frigate, unless you love frigates.
Then there's also the portion of people that PvP in this game. I know it's shocking, but apparently people do it. Unless that PvP is waged only against people hopelessly outclassed and outnumbered, you're eventually going to lose a ship. Of course, we could all gather 'round the largest Veldspar we can find in our Hulks and sing Kumbaya.
And I was unaware the sole purpose of the CSM was censorship of unpatriotic thinking. Sounds a bit communist to me. Can I be a bluecap? I'd much enjoy going around throwing posters into gulags.
|
WaiKin Beldar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Korovyov
Edited by: Korovyov on 12/10/2008 21:15:18
EVE is all about mining veldspar for 6 months, griefing veldspar miners for another 6, and then blobbing from then on.
EDIT: And the only thing complicated about eve is fitting your ship. Once you've got that figured out (a total of 1 week learning right there, tops), you warp in, hit your win button, warp out. Repeat as necessary, replace ships as required.
Congratulations about your carebear abilities. 6 months mining veldspar...wow!
That's the last thing I would do in this game, but dude,if you had balls for mining 6 months in a row without shooting at yourself (apart the other stuff you mentioned) you're a ****ing winner 
|
Korovyov
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 20:33:00 -
[110]
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Congratulations about your carebear abilities. 6 months mining veldspar...wow!
That's the last thing I would do in this game, but dude,if you had balls for mining 6 months in a row without shooting at yourself (apart the other stuff you mentioned) you're a ****ing winner
Hyperbole and sarcasm.  Of course, I really have to wonder sometimes, with all the mining barges in Empire...
|
|
Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion
Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 23:29:00 -
[111]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
WHEN I TRAINED MY LEARNING SKILLS YOU NEEDED BASIC LEARNING SKILLS TO 5 TO TRAIN ADVANCED.
so stop whining, new guys these days have it much easier than we did.
QFT
|
Malik Mantille
Minmatar
Dark Sun Collective
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 09:12:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Malik Mantille on 15/10/2008 09:13:25
I have very little to say, but it is the biggest stfu to you whining ninnies.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS...sorry for the cruise control. But you don't. When you train learnings, you don't ACTUALLY lose time, so to say. Lets pretend with hypothetical skills. You have lvl 2 in advanced learning ...logic for this example. And you have skill X at 4, to go to 5, it actually SAVES you time to get logic up one point. this may take 7 hour, but it saves you a total of 12...and so you actually have saved 5 hours. How this is a time sink, I do not know...What I do know is that I never straight trained any learning skill. I simply trained it when the numbers added up to me saving time by spending 8 hours training a skill to save 15 hours of training another...Its all how you look at it. Stop complaining, these skills have been here since day one, you've not, don't come in crying because we've already trained them and you've yet to.
------
|
Ellariona
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:36:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Ellariona on 16/10/2008 16:44:58
Originally by: Judas Jones
How many times must you people re-post the same crap over and over, Learning Skill's are not "forced" on people, it's a choice like implants, it has benefit's only if you invest time in it which applies to the whole of Eve so if you can't see the beneift of time investment then this is not the game for you.
I second this! This is a machiavellan game... Try to make something of yourself in this game by any means, but stop whining! (I myself am a noob, this account has been laying dorment for a year)
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |