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RedLion
Caldari
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.25 22:32:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.
/me cancels Amarr training
/me starts Caldari training
/me hopes he is not let down.
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Ziester
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.26 05:54:00 -
[182]
Originally by: RedLion
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.
/me cancels Amarr training
/me starts Caldari training
/me hopes he is not let down.
They'll probably fix the OP's complaint but being able to hit instantly is still a major advantage for the other dreads. I doubt they will fix all of the problems with the Pheonix in a patch. Perhaps in an expansion one day.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.26 08:21:00 -
[183]
If the smartbomb problem gets fixed, I don't see a proble with not hitting instantly. That one is a disadvantage, granted. But if you look at the whole package there are some advantages that make up for the non-instant hit, no? Like being able to chose dmg type, hit equal on all ranges, best short term tank in the field etc.
Cap fights shouldn't be like normal fleet fights where after one alpha one opponent is gone.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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white kight
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
Coalition of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.09.26 08:39:00 -
[184]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.
WOOOOOHOOOOOO it only took 4 months to get a response but at least we know it is being looked into TY CCP
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Thread Locked.
Please note that the General Discussion area is not....
Oh who am I kidding - Continue 
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.27 18:17:00 -
[185]
Wonder when Nozh is going to reply.
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!! |
BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.27 18:59:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Wonder when Nozh is going to reply.
/me re-adds phoenix to the training plan 
Awesome EVE history
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Vily
Amarr
Lilium Venture Initiative
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Posted - 2008.09.27 20:18:00 -
[187]
Thank you.
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:00:00 -
[188]
Taking a look at this in the afternoon. Will post before leaving today with updates.
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Zeneth Darkblieght
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:40:00 -
[189]
Hi,
lol, would be kewl if it can be fixed, I kinda changed my entire skill tree to get away from the pheonix, played a few hours on the test server and didn't do any damage. Would be kewl to have it fixed, probably the sexiest dread out there :P
o7
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Rabid Rich
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:44:00 -
[190]
er hope you don't mind me adding this, but while you are on the case Nozh, how about taking 10mins to give the naglfar a boatload more cpu, and move a low to a mid. make it a viable shield tank dread that isn't the instant choice for primary... . you know it makes sense!
would only take 10mins. surely.
/end cheeky parallel posting
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Vily
Amarr
Lilium Venture Initiative
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Posted - 2008.09.30 16:47:00 -
[191]
can't wait ;p |
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2008.09.30 19:52:00 -
[192]
Ok.
Some basic info:
Citadel Torpedo HP: 650
Normal Torpedo HP: 240
Large Tech II smartbomb damage: 300 DMG
Other factors:
Number of launchers
Speed (It's "almost" impossible to destroy normal Torpedoes with smartbombs)
So to my conclusion:
The Citadel Torpedo HP vs. Damage is a bit low compared to normal Torpedoes if we fix that the HP of the Citadel Torpedoes is boosted to 960 HP. This would also translate directly over if we were to "ever" introduce XL-Smartbombs (doubt it ).
Lets not stop there. The Raven, king of torpedoes can mount 6 launchers, but the Phoenix can "only" field 3, this of course makes every missile more vulnerable. By doubling the HP of Citadel Torpedoes we can rectify that.
So end result: Citadel Torpedo HP: 1920
Other things this effects:
One advantage of fitting smartbombs to your capital ship is removed.
Everyone happy?
Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.
Nozh
Game Designer
CCP Games |
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Aarin Wrath
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.30 20:56:00 -
[193]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Ok.
Everyone happy?
Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.
Sounds great to me! (and I dont even use Citadel Torps).
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Zikka
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.30 23:23:00 -
[194]
That sounds very promising CCP Nozh - there is another factor though which is missile speed (and which is possibly more important than the number of launchers).
After all if a smartbomb kills 33% of your missiles then thats a 33% DPS drop whether that means 1 missile out of 3 or 2 out of 6.
The main difference is missile speed compared to hit points - and thats why citadel torps need twice the hit points. They take twice as long to get there.
Citadel torp velocity 750 m/s
Torp velocity 1500 m/s
Smartbomb radius 5km
A single smartbomb has around 3.5 seconds in which to hit a torpedo - and the raven has a velocity bonus which reduces that to more like 2.5 seconds.
A citadel torp on the other hand is in smartbomb range for 7.5 seconds.
With smartbomb skill on 4 a smartbomb has an 8 second duration.
This means just running your smarties constantly gives you a 1 in 4 chance of hitting a standard torp once. On the other hand its near certainty of hitting the citadel torp.
With the old torp hit points 2 smartbomb hits (and fitting two smartbombs is standard on carriers/moms) would destroy the torp virtually guaranteed every time.
With the new hit points though 4 to 5 smartbomb hits would be needed - which means a fitting dedicated to the purpose (lots of bombs), extremely expensive smartbombs and/or overlapping smartbomb fields.
So overall I think your suggestion sounds about right :)
My Pheonix suddenly feels a lot less useless.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.01 01:10:00 -
[195]
Sounds good. It seems to be right on spot. Not overdone, since it's still possible to destroy the torps, but still a considerable change.
Will be interesting to see the results.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.10.01 04:57:00 -
[196]
Very nice, sounds most excellent.
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Gai Servos
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Posted - 2008.10.01 07:45:00 -
[197]
eeeeeeeeeexxceelleentt...
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.01 08:11:00 -
[198]
WTB: fraps of someone taking down one of the new citadel torps...
...using defender missiles. It should take about 20 per torp if my calculations are correct.
I suppose if multiple carriers sit right next to each other, they can still take down torps via the use of a few smartbombs each, at the expense of a certain amount of damage.
---
DIY copying in Liekuri
20:1 mineral compression
Eve Online folding@home team |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.01 12:39:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 01/10/2008 12:40:21
Originally by: Vily
great stuff. i'd like velocity increaed as well ;p
but im happy to just have acheived this minor success.
I thought about that and maybe a small increase would be justifiable.
Without checking the stats I thought about 3/4 of the normal torp speed. That's not proportional to HP or damage, but since speed is such an important factor, the Phoenix doesn't receive a torp speed bonus and std torps are already rather slow, I guess a non-linear curve is ok.
While checking the current stats I saw it's actually 6/10 right now (or 3/5).
3/4 of 1250 would be an awkward number (937.5), so since the devs seem to like even numbers here, I'd say 7/10 of std. torp speed (that would be 875. 1312.5 with lvl5 skills, if EFT is right and torps get the skill bonus) might be the most reasonable goal you could achieve.
Now 875 m/s is not a huge improvement over 750 m/s, but it would at least be something, and more doesn't really make sense compared to std. torpedoes.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
azura nester
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.10.01 13:22:00 -
[200]
excellent, i look forward to seeing the changes being implemented. but the speed of citadel torpedos should also be looked into, they are a tad but on the slow side 
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w00t117
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Posted - 2008.10.01 15:27:00 -
[201]
yays citadel torps will actually hit supercaps and carriers now
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Ignition SemperFi
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.02 09:22:00 -
[202]
Thank you Nozh. You have at least helped to partially restore my faith in CCP that they listen to the customers.
Though unlike the nanotears, everyone agreed on this issue ;-p
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Ma Mendes
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:09:00 -
[203]
Victory for missile spamming *****s everywhere. Great job!
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Slvr Foxx
Caldari
Ardent Industrial
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:40:00 -
[204]
MMM, as a Phoenix pilot, a bow has to be taken to Nozh. Normally caldari as a rule get the nerf stick... Are you caldari Nozh?
Slvr Foxx
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.10.02 12:51:00 -
[205]
Good Change, but one thing at a time lets see how effective the hp increase does when on the field before asking for the velocity increase which as somone pointed out wouldnt seem nessecary.
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!! |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.02 13:35:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 02/10/2008 13:38:55
Seems very good. Because if you really want you can stil shield a carrier or mothership from citatel torps by fitting like 4 faction/officer SB. But that would be fair! Because you are using most of your High slots to counter most of the high slots of the enemy ship.
That made me wonder... would be funny if I could lock citatel torps and fire on them with my tempest :P
Also the faction XL torps will help the naglfar as well a bit. Something that was needed (but i stil lliked more when there were rep fleet XL projectiles :) ).
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Relyen
Caldari
Dead Flesh Corp
Rigor Mortis Mortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.02 13:49:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Relyen on 02/10/2008 13:49:02
The change to HP to solve the Smart bombing problem sounds great, thanks alot.
But I want to just ask if there will there be any examining of the issue of citadel torp damage being reduced to 0 upon switching siege on/off?
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I am own. |
Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.02 15:41:00 -
[208]
Good stuff Nozh 
Now let's have some of those 4-launcher hardpoint Elder Naglfar bpc drops.
Yea I know, give us an inch we'll take a mile...
_
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.02 16:28:00 -
[209]
Awwwwesome NOZH.
After this the phoenix will be great..
Theres still some issues with dissapearing torps after siege,
and the terribly slow speed of cit. torps..
But all in good time
Awesome EVE history
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Katarina Arisdeed
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.02 18:26:00 -
[210]
Nice it looks like I have a reason to train caldari dread now.
Thanks CCP
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