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Ratata K
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Posted - 2008.05.18 15:22:00 -
[1]
right i am nearly skilled to get a kitsune. this was my planned fitting
High maybe just 3 launchers
Mids MWD II 3 Multispecs (racial if i know who im against) cap recharger
lows overdrive cap relay
let me know what you think _____________________________________
-cheers-
Ratata K |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2008.05.18 15:31:00 -
[2]
My setup:
High: 2 malkuth launchers 1 150mm AC(I'm Minmatar and the rusty gun on the shiny ship looks funny) Mid: 4 hypnos multi MWD II Low: 2 SDA II
Rigs: 2 Ionic field projectors (gives me a lock range of 70km) Cheap version = no rigs.
You want the SDA in the low slots. You want 4 ECM mods. If you have to use the MWD you're in a bubble or need to bug out.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.18 15:38:00 -
[3]
First setup is bad, second setup is good.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Blazyon
Exiled. Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.05.19 03:01:00 -
[4]
My setup:
Hi: Whatever fits, at least 1 salvager, maybe a rocket launcher or 2. Med: MWD II 4x Racial jammers (1 of each imo, either best named or T2)
Low: 2x Signal Amp II
With that setup and mediocre skills, you have equal or more jamming power than a scorpion generally speaking. I prefer racials over multies due to cap sustainability since you have to perma-run the MWD as a kitsune. Also, you still get something like 21 jam strength to ALL races if you focus all your jammers to 1. Or you get a quick 12 to 4 different races, effectively jamming 4 cruisers a reasonable number of times.
The worst part of flying a kitsune, is you spend more time in warp than you do on the field, as any support ship with tracking bonuses will take you out really fast, and you'll be running away the moment you see red. Take to engagements of 10 or less. Pain is an object of relativity. |
Kamen
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.05.19 23:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Blazyon ... you have equal or more jamming power than a scorpion generally speaking...
And when you stop "generally speaking" you realize that you have four jammers, and that Scorp can field twice as many (depending on setup). Even a cheap BB can almost match you. Your biggest advantage over all these ships is ability to lock the target fast, and as Blazyon says, it is an effective tool for mini-gangs. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal. Kontakt Soder/Me West |
Blazyon
Exiled. Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.05.20 02:12:00 -
[6]
Typical Scorpion setups field only 6 jammers. Those jammers are not as bonused, and generally people don't even have BS 5, so they're even less bonused.
The reason I said generally speaking is that yes, the scorp can double up on 2 racials, but it will be stronger than the scorp by a decent margin on the other two racials.
That said, I'm definitely not saying the kitsune is better than scorp, they're completely different ships for different roles. Simply pointing out their immense jamming strength for their frigate size. Pain is an object of relativity. |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.05.20 02:39:00 -
[7]
You can train a Kitsune for a full T2 fit faster than a Scorpion as well.
My setup is
Signal Distortion Amplifier II x 2
1MN Afterburner II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II x 4
Rocket Launcher II x 3
I get 8+ on the jammers with the only level 5 skill being Frigate and almost 1 km/s of speed. Most will say you need the MWD, but this hits your cap (oh I can also perma run this setup!) and if you are having to run from a particular foe you should be trying to jam him not out run him!
Yes you aren't going to get out of bubbles as fast, but you aren't going to be effective in your role without if you try to keep up with Inty's and nano-hacs anyway.
Why no sensor booster? You are going to lock fast as it is and the sensor booster takes up another mid-slot!
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Bolo Atari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.20 18:25:00 -
[8]
Why have two SDA? Don't you get diminishing returns on the second one? ----- "We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty." |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.05.20 19:29:00 -
[9]
2 modules is still fairly effective in improving the capability of the target modules. 2 BCUs, 2 SDAs, etc, the stacking penalty really begins to hurt around the third module.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.20 19:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bolo Atari Why have two SDA? Don't you get diminishing returns on the second one?
1st mod = 100% 2nd = 87 3rd = 57 4th = 28 5th = 11
Fitting two is almost always 'worth it', three very often, four in some cases as well. (damage mods in PVE)
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
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Hebril Amolebin
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Posted - 2008.05.20 21:01:00 -
[11]
so first thing kitsune is small agile you do not need mvd you need range of locking and ew strenght of jammers. here is what i fly.
2 signal distortion amplifiers 1sb 3 racial 3 light missile launchers 1 particle augmentor 1 ion field rigs easily over 100+ km lock,12points strenght of jammers and you have 3 bs jammed permenantly everything is jamed easily the only problem you may face is jamming recons because of their high sensor strenght..forget multies no strength no range useless
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Zaitsef Kalahari
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Posted - 2008.05.20 21:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zaitsef Kalahari on 20/05/2008 21:23:27 How about a semi-nano kitsune??
My view is that if you dont make it go fast then you may as well fly a BB - its cheaper and has more hitpoints & jammers. The only reason I can see to fly the kitsune is the speed. If you dont fit MWD and overdrives then its no different than a BB.
I've run a kitsune to run with nano gangs and it does OK. Does about 3900ms without bonuses and 5900ms with a sleipner in gang running mods. That is no rigs etc.
You can run the MWD and 4 jammers for about 2 minutes, and either MWD or jammers permanently.
3 x Rocket Launcher II 1 x MWD II 3 x Racial Jammers II (gotta be racial as no SDA's in lows - get +8 on racial) 2 x Overdrive II No rigs
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Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.05.21 03:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dex Nederland on 21/05/2008 03:54:16
Originally by: Zaitsef Kalahari Edited by: Zaitsef Kalahari on 20/05/2008 21:23:27 How about a semi-nano kitsune??
My view is that if you dont make it go fast then you may as well fly a BB - its cheaper and has more hitpoints & jammers. The only reason I can see to fly the kitsune is the speed. If you dont fit MWD and overdrives then its no different than a BB.
I've run a kitsune to run with nano gangs and it does OK. Does about 3900ms without bonuses and 5900ms with a sleipner in gang running mods. That is no rigs etc.
You can run the MWD and 4 jammers for about 2 minutes, and either MWD or jammers permanently.
MWD increases single radius, meaning one of your defenses - small size - is gone the moment you turn it on (more than twice that of a non-MWDing Blackbird). The MWD also reduces your overall capacitor, which means you have shorter warp lengths and can arrive to the battle not being able to use either your jammers or your MWD one. Overdrive injectors increase your speed more, but reduce your effectiveness as a jamming ship. You are going to be SOL when it comes to the races you don't fit and you will only be able to jam consistently a single cruiser (maybe).
Why the Kitsune is better than a Blackbird? For a Blackbird to get a better scan resolution (relates directly to locking times) it has to fit 3 SBs, 2 of which have to be running speed scripts, this results in fewer jammers on the BB compared to the Kitsune. The Blackbird is half the speed of the Kitsune, requiring the Blackbird to fit a MWD which will cause it to suffer from the same ill effects mentioned above. This allows it to keep up with an afterburning Kitsune, which remember has a more stable capacitor now and just as many jammers. Cost wise, if you do a full T2 fit on both of them, trying to get 'comparable' effectiveness out of both of them they will have similar cost.
So why use a Kitsune? Well to T2 fit one takes as long as T2 fitting a Blackbird and it performs as well as if not better than the Blackbird.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.05.21 04:17:00 -
[14]
The Kitsune is a hard ship to fit really. Sure you benefit from a jamer range bonus like the other ECM ships but the kitsune will struggle to reach those ranges without sacrificing jammers and jam strength to boost locking range.
For the most part, I would advocate keeping the short jam range and going for pure jam strength. 4x Racial Jammers, 2x Sig Distortion Amps and an MWD are my standard fitting. The high slots leave me a bit perplexed. The ship will never put out respectable levels of Damage with any weapons, and it will have a hard time defending itself against drones (the most common enemy of the ECM ship). In short, whatever weapons you put in your high slots are probably for cosmetic purposes only - if the situation requires you opening fire, things are probably going poorly.
The Kitsune also fills a stange place for PVP. Falcons have trouble at times keeping up with the fast moving nano gangs, where the kitsune doesn't. If speed of action is the highest requirment of your gang, the Kitsune is a solid choice. Otherwise, there is probably a better ECM choice out there already.
In general however, my Kitsune rarely gets dusted off and pulled out for an Op. Blackbirds jam just as well (in a general sort of way) for a fraction of the price. If pure jamming power is called for I have a Falcon. If I expect to recieve hate and discontet for my jamming efforts I use a scorpion.
It is a fun little ship, and if you partake in lots of small gang (especially frigate based small gang) combat it can prove an asset. Otherwise your ship is destined to become a Hanger trophy along with your faction frigate and your Jovian shuttle.
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