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Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2008.05.08 22:30:00 -
[31]
I just don't get why the Pilgrim is the only force recon without any range bonus on it's (so-called) ewar !?!? ------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Mel Gibbson
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Posted - 2008.05.08 23:36:00 -
[32]
the pilgrim's ewar is tracking disruptors. seeing the fact 2 of them can shut down any turret ship, i'd say they pwn.
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Nomad Storm
Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Madla Mafia I just don't get why the Pilgrim is the only force recon without any range bonus on it's (so-called) ewar !?!?
Its ewar range is vastly beyond its operational range(not a bad thing, the ewar range or operational range ).
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Naviset
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:48:00 -
[34]
I don't agree with any of the people (idiots) trying to prove the Arazu and pilgrim don't need help. Grytok, in fleets, you should know that to be perfectly honest individual ships don't matter, and with 9 other ships in the game now scramming at 28+km, the Arazu isn't really that impressive even for the scram range.
Yeah, damps aren't chance based, but the probability with missing with 6 multispecs or a couple racials is pretty slim. And even if they do miss, 90% of the time the caldari recons are far enough away that the lock only effects the folks close in for 10 seconds or so.
The pilgrim is pathetic without the range bonus unless theres a ton of other ewar about and NOBODY in the enemy gang can lock.
The Arazu just simply isn't worth flying. Maybes its "not that bad" but its certainly not worth buying, fitting, undocking, and flying about. I'd take a falcon or a rapier out over it any day of the week (and do, as I can fly all the recons, have tried them all, and retired my gal ones and only use a curse if I use amarr.)
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Hannobaal
Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 04:23:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 09/05/2008 04:23:23
Originally by: Cautet Edited by: Cautet on 08/05/2008 15:14:03
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Grytok
Rapier webs the enemies tacklers, Falcon jamms enemy damagedealers, Arazu damps enemy damagedealers...
And in that situation (if you're using it for the damping), what exactly is the point to bringing an Arazu over an additional Falcon? I mean, even a Blackbird would do a better job at keeping ship's sensors out of the fight than an Arazu does nowadays.
1. The Arazu can scram at decent distance.
Yes, but he said they were using it for the damping.
Quote: 2. It's 100% chance.
100% of having an effect that (depending on the situation) may or may not actually be useful. The most you will get out of it is keeping a single battleshipfrom being able to target and ten only outside of a set range. A blackbird putting all it jammers on a single battleship will keep it from locking things at any range, and it will do it from much farther away.
Quote: there are many advantages to using a rook over a falcon in roaming gangs, not least the better cap, better resists, more midslots, faster locking.
Nope. They have the exact same number of mid slots (and low slots), and the Falcon has slightly better cap. What the Rook has over the Falcon is slightly better tanking and more fire power, neither of which is particularly useful to a long-range jamming ship.
The Trinity changes to the Falcon have made the Rook obsolote. There is nothing there to make up for its lack of cloaking.
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Trefnis
Minmatar R.U.S.T. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.09 08:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Anope Edited by: Anope on 08/05/2008 22:04:49 Grytok... wow http://evoke.wuim.de/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39114
I love seeing your expansive experience with arazu... oh and how you use large shield boosters II's
yes and looking here http://kb.insrg.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=49976&view=ships_weapons you really know everything about recons.
the point is i wont say anything for or agains those ships as i dont fly them, and nor should you
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Celador Nane
the united
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Posted - 2008.05.09 08:39:00 -
[37]
Yup, totally agree
The pilgrim/arazu/lachesis/rook are garbage.
The huggis is decent
The Curse/Falcon/Raipier are amazing
If im ever FCin n somebodys tells me they are going to bring either an arazu or a pilgrim i just laugh..., then ask if they can fly something else.
In the age of heavy interdictors the scram bonus is useless & the EW power of the Falcon totally destroys the arazu (considering the falcon fights out of the range of damps) & can keep 3 to 4 ships jammed at a time.
The lachesis is just a big bag of lol's... just look at the price...
supply = somebody with mental problems demand = noobs who wanna fly sumat pink
The huggin at least has the valuable web range bonus thats amazingly usefull, not to mention fights closer anyway so the cloak isnt quite as important.
The rook..., well considering it cant cloak its very vunerable..., and does nothing better than the falcon apart from dps
If your using your falcon for dps.. well please contract it to me,& ill use it proply.
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Kingwood
Amarr Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Star Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 08:43:00 -
[38]
Wtf? Worst idea ever. Oh yay, my DPS just dropped to what, 120? Why should I fly this ship when I can fly an Inty and tackle much better? For the love of god, let it keep it's damage bonus and don't give it a range bonus. It's going to make this ship totally useless.
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EvilSpork
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.05.11 22:41:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Anope Edited by: Anope on 08/05/2008 14:09:44
Originally by: Antarus Lars
Originally by: Grytok
Actually your the one without a clue.
MWD away from you, and their free MWD towards you, and your screwed
ok seriously.. YOU'RE = you are YOUR = a possession THEIR = someones possession THEY'RE = they are THERE = a location
they're over there with their spaceships. your arazu setup sounds like you're going to die.
please, for the love of god use the proper word. they all mean very different things! i dont care if your spelling sucks, or your grammar is sub-par, as long as you at least TRY to use the proper word.
also plz fix the pilgrim to not be the black sheep of the recons due to being the only short range ship in the class. give the arazu some love too. stupid scripts destroyed so many things
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Kaben
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Antarus Lars Firstly
Im under the general impression that all Minmatar & Caldari pilots are satisfied with there respective recon ships.
I have never heard any corp mates or gang mates moan about there effectivness.
Lets take a look at the Pilgrim (first one the two force recons with problems)
Pilgrim
All Combat recons get a damage bonus, and the force recons get a cyno bonus... apart from this ship..
Proposed change.
Pilgrim +10% damage bonus
Exchanged for 40% nos & neut range bonus
What will this do?, well it will mean the pilgrim can effectivly tackle like the arazu & the huggin without being in major jeporady.
But with such low dps & drone HP it will not be able to solo battleships (like it could pre-nos-nerf), which as fun as it is... isnt particually balance.
No rapiers/falcons or arazus can break any reasonable tank.
This ship would suddenly become a great tackler, could work on gates in a gang, can pin down hostiles ships with ease like all the others can (except falcon but thats already fantastic), it could also solo decently, while not being overpowerd
Arazu & Lachesis
Both suffer the same problem... simply that remote sensor damps got hit "farr" to hard with the nerf, they either need a +10% bonus per level, or even a 15% bonus (falcon gets 20% i may add)
These ships roles have even more recently been taken with the introduction of Heavy Interdictor & the scriped 30km distruptor.., why have a point @ 40km when you can have 2 infinte points @ 30?...., not to mention the recent scram range buff of the low dps ceptors.
I beleive these 2 changed would not be overpowered, but would make these ships far more usefull.
Thoughs?
Ant-
I can fly both amarr and gallente recons.
There is nothing wrong with the pilgrim, your proposed change would lead this ship to being just like every other force recon. Outclassing it's brother. To me the pilgrim is special, it performs a role currenlty its brother the curse cannot, meanwhile the curse has it's own role. This is the way all force recons should be, how to implement it IDK? IMO it's not that the pilgrim is broken, it's that all other force recons are broken.
As far as the arazu/lach goes, they are just broken completely, I do aggree that something has to be done here, but not something that will lead us down the same road in that the lach is useless. The only reason you'd use a lach before was slightly better then it's t1 hull but cheaper then the arazu.
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.12 01:00:00 -
[41]
Do not remove the pilgrims dmg bonus. Its a close range ship. I just needs far better cap or cap recharge rate. Its a damn cap warfare ship. Yet it struggles to run its cap draining mods.
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Ketarin Vengar
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Posted - 2008.05.12 15:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Depp Knight Do not remove the pilgrims dmg bonus. Its a close range ship. I just needs far better cap or cap recharge rate. Its a damn cap warfare ship. Yet it struggles to run its cap draining mods.
QFT,
The ship needs "something".
But my main problem was with the number of mids.
10mn afterburner Web Point Cap Booster Tracking Distruptor (only 1 EW mod isnt enuff) (morso after stupid scripting that really wanst needed for tracking distruptors)
Personally i do believe that the pilgrim would be better with the range bonus, so at least it would be able to operate as a very powerful tackler which can also stop em leaving (thing of a group of em ambushing capitals ...mwhahaha)
Ahem..
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Kaben
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Posted - 2008.05.12 23:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ketarin Vengar
QFT,
The ship needs "something".
But my main problem was with the number of mids.
10mn afterburner Web Point Cap Booster Tracking Distruptor (only 1 EW mod isnt enuff) (morso after stupid scripting that really wanst needed for tracking distruptors)
Personally i do believe that the pilgrim would be better with the range bonus, so at least it would be able to operate as a very powerful tackler which can also stop em leaving (thing of a group of em ambushing capitals ...mwhahaha)
Ahem..
The pilgrim with a range bonus is a better version of the curse. Even without it's damage it would shine more then the curse like every other force recon currently.
My mids are currently.
1 10mn ab II 2 td's II 1warp disrupt II, (or scram II considering range of this ship to begin with making disrupter somewhat useless and saves on cap) 1 web II
Yes it's cap stable only problem I'd have is running into ships that are ships like it (cap warfare) or nano's which from the live dev blog most of them should be slowing down within the near future.
IMO force recons need a role, pilgrim is the only one that works correctly. Or in other words the other force recons need to be brought down a tad as to make there counterparts (combat recon) more viable in actual combat situations whereas the force recons are better for engagements which require more stealthy approach. Currently force recons get all of the benifits of it's combat class with little of the draw backs in which the cov cloak more then makes up for those drawbacks (save for the pilgrim).
About the only thing that I can think of that would help the pilgrim in it's current state is slightly more cap or better base cap recharge.
Only force recon that needs boosting is the zu so it can use it's ewar effectively, but not too effective. The lach needs a slight better boost then the zu would get so it's more combat related.
This is just my two isk worth.
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