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Thoram
Minmatar
Twin Sun Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.07 03:32:00 -
[31]
I think they should be aggroed by the mission runner.
The line about "I've trained my skills to use scanners to find the deadspace where you do your mission, so I should be able to salvage from you" is silly.
The player trained their skills to be able to get the missions from the agent, train the skills needed to complete the missions and also. If they player hadn't picked the mission from the agent, the deadspace pocket wouldnt' be created.
Use your nifty scanning skills to find a NPC deadspace pocket, that was AFAIK created for the purpose when scanning and scannerdrones were introduced. |
zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.05.07 03:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: zoolkhan on 07/05/2008 03:52:48
 Originally by: Had Enough
At least do some research on real world ship wrecks and salvage rights. CCP made it this way it wasn't an accident.
within the three mile zone of a nation there is noo freelancing afaik.
And otehrwise it is usually the first on the scene who claims the right.
Now who is first on the scene? The war ship that created the wrecks most likely, or?
Ive been in the navy as well as my dad, and my grandpa, but thanks for lecturing.
maybe lets skip the RL world stuff?
let me rephrase a quote from a different thread
RL reference = thread auto-fail
This is not RL, its a game. Its supposed to be fun for all sides
and balance has to make sure just that.
I would not have started talking about salvaging, if not someone had brought it up
in my opinions there are better ways to restore the balance indeed.
And i would not alter teh aggro on slavaging at all if i could raise the mission reward to a level that makes missions.. well.. rewarding again:)
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Had Enough
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Posted - 2008.05.07 05:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Had Enough on 07/05/2008 05:36:00
Originally by: zoolkhan
And otehrwise it is usually the first on the scene who claims the right.
Exactly, the first person who gets to the wreck and salvages it. I could go out into the real world right now in a speed boat dive down into the sea find a wreck and then go back to shore get my salvage boat but on the way back someone else salvaged it.
Originally by: zoolkhan
maybe lets skip the RL world stuff?
Maybe lets not? Everything in Eve is based on "RL world stuff" from Ship types, Astronomy, Weapons etc. so why should salvaging be any different? If the mission runner wants to go for max DPS and have all weapons on his highs then he forfeits the salvage if a ninja salvager enters the mission.
Some will leave if asked to, some will split it with the mission runner, some will just take what they can in true scavenger fashion.
Lets be real about it, it rarely ever happens to most mission runners if it happens to them at all and people in the Mission Hubs are causing severe lag to these systems if they want to avoid it they have many options,
1. Don't mission in the over populated mission hubs.
2. Bring a salvager friend this is a multiplayer game.
3. Take off one or two Turret/Launcher and fit a Salvage/Tractor.
Someone I know apparently likes to loot the mission runners loot in her little frigate and then when the mission runner blows up her harmless little ship she comes back in a battlecruiser and teaches them a lesson in pain hehe. Just wait for the fun and games if salvaging ever gets made an agroable offence, there will be very few ninja salvagers then, only people wanting to destroy those expensive faction fitted Caldari Navy Ravens. |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.07 07:31:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 07/05/2008 07:32:51
I favour consistency first in looting/salvaging mechanics, so certainly I feel one ought to change to be in line with the other. But which way?
Well, ore thieving was a major issue on the forums for a long time before CCP finally implemented can flagging. It hasn't killed loot stealing as a profession at all; rather, it's made it more interesting. People will pinch stuff in combat ships, as if to dare their victims into fighting and so on.
I think the same could still apply to stealing salvage, so therefore:
[X] The Ninja Salvager should be aggro'd to the Mission Runner after the first wreck is salvaged, because the Mission Runner owns the wrecks, and I feel that CCP needs to change the current dynamic.
However, salvaging from other people's wrecks is still a little different from looting cans in that the salvager has to spend a few more moments doing their thing than a traditional loot/ore thief does. This allows the victim a few extra seconds to pre-emptively lock their target as soon as they're aware of what's happening. So maybe a short delay of a few seconds after the salvaging has completed before the aggro timer kicks in, just to balance things out in that regard.
/Ben
Ben Derindar: Eve CSM candidate
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.07 12:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Caileb Memorax
Anyways, salvaging isn't a complete profession on it's own. It's talked about as a "mini" profession. My impression of this is that it's something that you do along side a real profession like say... mission running or belt ratting.
I disagree, and that's why my Corp exists. You call Mission Running a 'real' profession? How can you do this, when you're running around shooting 'made up' enemies? At least my chosen profession has me interacting with real people, and not drones.
Originally by: Thoram
The line about "I've trained my skills to use scanners to find the deadspace where you do your mission, so I should be able to salvage from you" is silly.
Why is it silly? Because it's not your opinion? I don't find Mission Running silly, although it's not something I'm interesting in pursuin, and yet, you want to split hairs about whether or not someone's chosen profession makes sense to you or not? Get real.
EvE is a PvP Game that just happens to contain PvE, so if I went with either of your opinions, Mission Running would be both silly and non-essential. If CCP agreed with me, I'm pretty certain there'd be no Empire Space for you to call home.
We're Recruiting! |
raylon
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:05:00 -
[36]
My frustration with salvage looters stems from my inability to do anything in response aside from suicide attacking.
Let me paint a picture here.
I had just recently finished an L4 mission when a 4 day old character belonging to the SWA NPC corp shows up and starts salvaging my wrecks. He's piloting a Heron.
This is lame because
- He is only 4 days old and it took me a very long time to be able to solo a L4 mission
- He is in a heron, 2 burned logic circuits and he's carrying the value of his ship (suicide atk with what? its nothing to him)
- He is in SWA, I can not WAR DEC an NPC Corp.
- I can not put a bounty on his head cause he is 0.0
- He is obviously an ALT
My only possible recourse is to suicide attack, for which i loose security (correct?).
I would recommend the following solution to this problem.
Allow player set standing to be used as a bitfield value which enables others to perform certain functions
standing +0.1 person can salvage my wrecks
standing +0.2 person can loot my wrecks
standing +0.3 person can salvage and loot my wrecks
without appropriate standing, the salvager is made an aggressor.
This solution is a brainstorm, im sure there are other issues at hand - but i simply did not want to point out this problem without offering a solution.
-raylon
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FireBirdHawk
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:14:00 -
[37]
Tchell: The problem isn't as clear cut as it might seem with a yes/no for aggro.
You mentioned that missioners could quite easily strip out a weapon or 2 and mount a tractor & salvager. The 'problem' still remains... I as the missioner with a slow BS (geared for the mission) trying to compete with a zippy frig while I'm still being aggroed by several NPCs. Wardeccing is not an option. Do I really want to wardec a ninja who belongs to an alliance while I'm in a 2 man corp? Obviously not.
But do I want aggro against that ninja salvager? Definately not any more.
The last one who stole from me got a little slap as I directed some fire his way. Bad mistake. 5 minutes later I'm podding home after he returned and did something to me I'll describe as  unhealthy. Aggro would only help those who could afford to replace BS sized losses. IMO aggro would not be helpful.
Even after saying that, I still aggree that the ninja should be able to use the skills for something other than the rare exploration site. I'd like to hear candidates suggest a compromise, after all, this is why we're voting for them isn't it? Just ticking the box won't suffice for a topic like this without some form of justification and/or compromise. |
raylon
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Had Enough
Maybe lets not? Most things in Eve are based on "RL world stuff" like Ship types, Weapons, Astronomy etc. so why should salvaging be any different?
Exactly, theft in Real Life has consequences.
Thanks for proving my point
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Had Enough
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: raylon
Originally by: Had Enough
Maybe lets not? Most things in Eve are based on "RL world stuff" like Ship types, Weapons, Astronomy etc. so why should salvaging be any different?
Exactly, theft in Real Life has consequences.
Thanks for proving my point
Read the first part again. If you can actually comprehend what I am saying.
In case you missed it.
Originally by: zoolkhan
And otehrwise it is usually the first on the scene who claims the right.
Exactly, the first person who gets to the wreck and salvages it.
-
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raylon
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Posted - 2008.05.07 14:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Had Enough
In case you missed it.
Originally by: zoolkhan
And otehrwise it is usually the first on the scene who claims the right.
Exactly, the first person who gets to the wreck and salvages it.
I'm pretty sure the first person on scene was the one who made the ship a wreck?
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raylon
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Posted - 2008.05.07 14:12:00 -
[41]
Edited by: raylon on 07/05/2008 14:12:38
My point here is - not that it should be banned, but that there should be consequences.
if that takes the form of security loss, agression countdown, whatever.
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Caileb Memorax
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Posted - 2008.05.07 14:43:00 -
[42]
I disagree, and that's why my Corp exists. You call Mission Running a 'real' profession? How can you do this, when you're running around shooting 'made up' enemies? At least my chosen profession has me interacting with real people, and not drones.
-Tchell Dahhn
The fact that your Corp exists simply for this reason doesn't give it any greater credence. As for your 'real' profession comment. This is a game, we are all playing, so in terms of the game, mission running is a profession according to CCP, that's the people who made the game. Whereas salvaging is a "mini" profession. My profession would have me interacting with other people too if they were flagged when they tried to steal from steal from me. As for the game being a PVP game, to a certain extent I agree, but if it's only PVP then why do they even HAVE PVE content? Could that possibly be because they realize that PVP isn't cost effective and cannot offer any contribution to the economy that they want to grow? You yourself are engaged in PVE activities by salvaging Mission Drones.
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M'ing Pai
The Really Awesome Players
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.07 15:13:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Caileb Memorax
Because so many players out there are crappy people and use subterfuge to get fights instead of going down to Low Sec or 0.0 and getting into fight,
I just wanted to point out to everyone that you said highsec pirates are crappy people. As a member of TRAPS, and at this time also a member of the Privateers, I take offense to the statement that I'm a crappy person simply because I use all available tactics to start fights in highsec. I go to lowsec and 0.0 too. Then again, I like ice cream one day and cake the next. Highsec isn't supposed to be exempt from pvp, therefore I will continue to start fights there, and that doesn't make me or anyone else a "crappy person". No vote for you.
To Tchell, I bust into people's missions all the time, in a kestrel fitted for salvage and speed, and I would LOVE to be criminally flagged for simply salvaging. If I were, I may come in a bigger ship to start with. As it stands, I have to go through the trouble of actually stealing from wrecks in order to get the agressed status I so dearly want, and have to use a fast ship to do it in.
As to the mechanics, I firmly believe that the idea that the wrecks aren't owned by the mission runner or his corp is completely shaky, even if CCP has stated otherwise. If you aren't a member of that runner's corp or gang, you can't tractor it, or you get the popup that others have mentioned stating it's not yours. If you SHOOT it, and you're not a member of the runner's CORP or the runner himself, CONCORD comes to defend against an agressive act against someone else's PROPERTY. The mechanics are consistent with it being the mission runner's property in all regards except for flagging.
I'd say change it. It would make my life more interesting.
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:15:00 -
[44]
[ X ] The Ninja Salvager should be aggro'd to the Mission Runner after the first wreck is salvaged, because the Mission Runner owns the wrecks, and I feel that CCP needs to change the current dynamic.
Although, if possible I would like this to apply to ONLY wrecks in deadspace areas (so mission wrecks would flag, but belt wrecks wouldnt), possibly with the addition that wrecks in deadspace areas only flag if the owner is present on the same grid.
Reasons for these exceptions: allowing anyone to salvage non deadspace rats (belts for example) will provide more ability to keep belts relatively wreck free, and therefore reducing lag.
Having wrecks in deadspace areas only flag if the owner is present basically does the same, and allows salvager players to salvage abandoned mission sites. This is a tricky point because it might be that the owner has just left to switch ships or drop of his loot and will return later. I believe this point is very open for suggestions/debate.
Recruitment Director :: EVE University
DV for CSM |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:29:00 -
[45]
Why, Lord? Why?! Why have you put upon me with such narrow minded responses?
Saying deadspace wrecks should aggro while belt wrecks might not makes zero scientific sense! Why would salvaging a wreck in deadspace act differently than one in a belt?
Ugh - I'm giving up the ghost on this one. I asked for Candidates to provide me with their view, and once again, I've set alight the powderkeg of personal opinion.
What I am looking for is simple: If you vote to change the aggro rules for salvaging, you will lose my vote, the vote of my Corp, and the vote of most (if not all) Ninja Salvagers.
There are more of us than you think - whether in an NPC Corp or a real corp - and we are dedicated to this cause.
Take it as you will. I'm done trying to convince anyone. (I'll save you all from the 'whiney baby' response of clearing the OP, and let you fight amongst yourselves.)
We're Recruiting! |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 07/05/2008 17:51:00
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 06/05/2008 20:01:51
Alright, Candidates. I'll make this easy on you. Place an X in the box that is your POV on the matter:
A Mission Runner gets a mission from his Agent, and takes off into Deadspace, where he/she proceeds to blow up all of the targets. A Ninja Salvager scans out the Mission Runner's location, enters Deadspace, and begins salvaging all of the wrecks. At NO TIME does the Ninja Salvager loot a single can.
[ ] The Ninja Salvager should be aggro'd to the Mission Runner after the first wreck is salvaged, because the Mission Runner owns the wrecks, and I feel that CCP needs to change the current dynamic.
[ ] The Ninja Salvager should NOT be aggro'd to the Mission Runner after the first wreck is salvaged, because I support CCP's current ruling that Salvage is free for anyone with the proper tools to retrieve from wrecks.
Well, both really.
If it's a mission wreck(I.e located in a deadspace) then you should get aggroed if the person is on the grid.
If not, then no. Problem is that people feel like they will be griefed if a person enters their mission, and starts salvaging their wrecks.
Personally, I would love to see it completely removed really. But I can see it from both perspectives. If you aren't fast enough, tough luck.
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Natalya RU
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Had Enough
Edited by: Had Enough on 06/05/2008 19:09:19
Salvage doesn't belong to anyone thus there is no theft.
At least do some research on real world ship wrecks and salvage rights.
From the point of view of the Mission Runner, wrecks it is a military trophy. And the Ninja Salvager is the marauder.
And marauding - war crime.
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TheOnlyProphet
Amarr
The Silver Alliance
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.05.07 18:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Caileb Memorax
Edited by: Caileb Memorax on 07/05/2008 02:41:54
What is so terrible about getting flagged if you salvage someone elses wreck? Because you're in a crappy little ship that doesn't have the guns to stand up in a fight? Well then to use that same logic, why should a mission runner have to mount salvagers on their combat ship?
I agree that some mission runners don't want their wrecks, but some of us DO. And we've got the skills to actually KILL the ship that produced the wreck AND the skills to salvage them so don't we deserve SOME consideration on this issue?
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.07 18:26:00 -
[49]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Well, both really.
If it's a mission wreck(I.e located in a deadspace) then you should get aggroed if the person is on the grid.
If not, then no. Problem is that people feel like they will be griefed if a person enters their mission, and starts salvaging their wrecks.
Damn, Vista. I was counting on you.
Now - you can redeem yourself by answering this one, last question...
Is this going to be a 'hot button' issue for you, or are you happy to let this one slide, while you concentrate on bigger, more important issues?
We're Recruiting! |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.07 18:32:00 -
[50]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 07/05/2008 18:33:44
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Well, both really.
If it's a mission wreck(I.e located in a deadspace) then you should get aggroed if the person is on the grid.
If not, then no. Problem is that people feel like they will be griefed if a person enters their mission, and starts salvaging their wrecks.
Damn, Vista. I was counting on you.
Now - you can redeem yourself by answering this one, last question...
Is this going to be a 'hot button' issue for you, or are you happy to let this one slide, while you concentrate on bigger, more important issues?
The above opinion was really based from what I think people think.
Personally I'm all for not really giving aggro(At least some way, that salvaging others wrecks is viable). As it is now, the way a wreck is flagged to a person/corp is just kinda ********. There is no risk but suicide ganking in empire really, so at least put a risk in regards to "ninja" salvaging.
With factional warfare, mechanics are probably going to change.
BUT I can still see how annoying it could be for mission runners. But I guess they should just fit a salvager, so that they can salvage when things pop, instead of being totally safe, to get their wrecks.
But my personal opinion isn't gonna matter on CSM really. But I think the mechanics in regards to flagging, needs to be reconsidered.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.07 18:42:00 -
[51]
I tried to get in touch with you ingame, to hear more about how you think the aggro mechaniscm can be improved. Unfortunately I was unable to get in touch with you.
Please throw me a convo 
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.07 20:41:00 -
[52]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
I tried to get in touch with you ingame, to hear more about how you think the aggro mechaniscm can be improved. Unfortunately I was unable to get in touch with you.
Please throw me a convo
Now, that's my idea of a "Man of the People!" Requesting a Convo from the little guy. That's great.
I hope to be on later this evening - possibly around 8:00 p.m. EST - but regardless, you will receive either a Convo or an EvEMail from me!
We're Recruiting! |
Hanell Steel
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Posted - 2008.05.07 23:56:00 -
[53]
Heres a thought, The mission was offered to you by the npc corperation that usually controls the system. They are giving you the reward, bounties, items with in and therefor would not the salvage be yours by that same thought process.... so if someone were to come into your mission uninvited that was not offered to you by the npc corp, why would the npc cops come and defend you if I attacked? By that thought process I own the items in that complex and you are violating my rights to it. Then you would be subject to risk just like everyone else. You talk about the skills and the items, so lets compare. Your salvage ship and scanners that take less than a week to train and costs at most 60 million isk, or my battleship, standings, fittings, skills that take months to train. So to the question of aggro, sure why not? It would allow the nijas to come back in larger ships and fight with you. Im all for that, but having little to no actions that I can take against you atm is bull. And if you want to go by the first one there rights, its always going to be the one who created the wreks as they were "there" when the wrek first appeared. However I more firmly beleive in the earlier explaination, the corp that owns the system and gave me the mission gave me the rights to the mission area. Also to further make my thoughts to your argument, I would like to point out that the npc rats are incapabile of thinking further than what they are already shooting at. They almost never change targets after you have the agro, as any mission runner thats done missions in a fleet would know. And even if by the odd chance you do pick up agro you just warp out and back in.
on your point of salvaging as you go.... have you ever tried to salvage a mission in a battleship? it takes a month, unless you have a muarder. Inaddition we are still then suceptable due to our slowness, and not much but a battleship can do a 4 in the first place. Finally on this point some rats almost require you to have a full rack of guns and missles or it will take you eternity to kill them... usually true of the million + isk bounties. Also as someone has stated b4 the navy fights are almost entierly salvage where you get your isk from, so if a ninja salvager comes in on one of those missions ive just spent 30 minutes+ on a mission that I now get no reward from.
As to war deccs, they only work to a certain extent. The npc corps were mentioned as was the allainces and the lack of members in your corp.
Im not saying that you dont have the right to be a ninja salvager, im just saying that I should be allowed a degree of recourse if you come into my mission area, that was given to me by the owner of the system, this would of course introduce more risk for the both of us, so imo we are really even now. Although I agree that this is not the most pressing of issues, it is important to a large amount of the player base and therefor does deserve attention. And as the system stands now we may see a real problem with the missioners to ninjas ratio, why should I mission anymore if I can just ninja? then you may run into 0 missioners, then your profession would be quite dead wouldnt it? giving me some form of recourse will help stabalize the enviromet imo.
ps. I thought of one solution that may make everyone happy, increase the number, and spread of agents, this would help eliminate hub missioning (which happens btw because the hubs form around the semi decent agents) which will reduce lag. This may be a compromise worth thinking about... sorry for the long post just had to try and get my say in in one breath lol.
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Sylper Illysten
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: M'ing Pai
Originally by: Caileb Memorax
Because so many players out there are crappy people and use subterfuge to get fights instead of going down to Low Sec or 0.0 and getting into fight,
I just wanted to point out to everyone that you said highsec pirates are crappy people. As a member of TRAPS, and at this time also a member of the Privateers, I take offense to the statement that I'm a crappy person simply because I use all available tactics to start fights in highsec. I go to lowsec and 0.0 too. Then again, I like ice cream one day and cake the next. Highsec isn't supposed to be exempt from pvp, therefore I will continue to start fights there, and that doesn't make me or anyone else a "crappy person". No vote for you.
To Tchell, I bust into people's missions all the time, in a kestrel fitted for salvage and speed, and I would LOVE to be criminally flagged for simply salvaging. If I were, I may come in a bigger ship to start with. As it stands, I have to go through the trouble of actually stealing from wrecks in order to get the agressed status I so dearly want, and have to use a fast ship to do it in.
As to the mechanics, I firmly believe that the idea that the wrecks aren't owned by the mission runner or his corp is completely shaky, even if CCP has stated otherwise. If you aren't a member of that runner's corp or gang, you can't tractor it, or you get the popup that others have mentioned stating it's not yours. If you SHOOT it, and you're not a member of the runner's CORP or the runner himself, CONCORD comes to defend against an agressive act against someone else's PROPERTY. The mechanics are consistent with it being the mission runner's property in all regards except for flagging.
I'd say change it. It would make my life more interesting.
Highsec pirates are low life, they use game mechanics to frustrate poeple to the point where they can then use a PVP fitted ship against a PVE fitted ship, usually just for the hell of it. High sec pirates don't want fair fights, they want easy kills, claiming some noble higher purpose is just deluding yourself, you're one of the lowest forms of life in Eve pure and simple.
Salvage theives are no better, currently no risk pure profit, NPC's don't even agro you. Nothing but parasites.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:09:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 08/05/2008 00:12:53
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
<snip>
Salvage theives are no better, currently no risk pure profit, NPC's don't even agro you. Nothing but parasites.
/me prints out this text, and then proceeds to squeeze the Carebear Tears from it, into the tank.
"Carebear Tears fuel my ship!"
Oh, and you must be new. I've been aggro'd by NPC rats many, many times. Don't talk to me about 'no risk' until you've flown an Executioner around a bunch of NPC BS's that haven't yet aggro'd the Mission Runner.
Come back when you know what you're talking about.
Consider this: if I was to warp my Team into a Mission, only to find I'd get aggro for every salvage, I'll just get some of my Team to aggro every rat spawn towards the Mission Runner, and then warp out. They'll be overwhelmed, have to warp out, and that will leave us to Ninja Salvage the wrecks.
That works too. (It's all in the thought process, kiddies.)
We're Recruiting! |
Sylper Illysten
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 08/05/2008 00:12:53
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
<snip>
Salvage theives are no better, currently no risk pure profit, NPC's don't even agro you. Nothing but parasites.
/me prints out this text, and then proceeds to squeeze the Carebear Tears from it, into the tank.
"Carebear Tears fuel my ship!"
Oh, and you must be new. I've been aggro'd by NPC rats many, many times. Don't talk to me about 'no risk' until you've flown an Executioner around a bunch of NPC BS's that haven't yet aggro'd the Mission Runner.
Come back when you know what you're talking about.
Consider this: if I was to warp my Team into a Mission, only to find I'd get aggro for every salvage, I'll just get some of my Team to aggro every rat spawn towards the Mission Runner, and then warp out. They'll be overwhelmed, have to warp out, and that will leave us to Ninja Salvage the wrecks.
That works too. (It's all in the thought process, kiddies.)
Oh a big bad leet PvPer, picking on mission runners how you must quake in your boots at the thought of a PvE ship firing on you. Personally I've had a great deal of fun with a cloaked sniper and fields of wrecks. Drop a tech 1 drone for the prober to find and then wait, sooner rather than later the parasites show up and they always get greedy and loot a can, after that I get to collect the slavage theif tears that fuel my ship.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
But my personal opinion isn't gonna matter on CSM really. But I think the mechanics in regards to flagging, needs to be reconsidered.
The biggest issue with flagging is remote logistics atm. If you've ever done an empire war you know what im talking about. Neutral logistics ships which get no aggro from repairing war targets.
Whether or not salvage flagging is important, its probably no big deal one way or the other. Originally it was implemented with no flag because CCP wanted to increase the amount of salvage that was produced to kick start rig production.
Maybe a separate flag for salvage theft that acts in the same way but has a different indicator. Or simply give players the option to remove their flags on dropped loot/salvage.
Its probably not a big issue to add it. I mean, if you don't care that someone salvages your wreck then you probably won't shoot them for doing it anyway[ha ha, fat chance]
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Hanell Steel
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:30:00 -
[58]
on the matter of agro... I dont know about you but my mission ship is built to tank the full agro of the room.... having to warp out wastes time.
But right now I agree with the statement that salvage ninjas as they call themselves are just looking to earn profit through no work and no risk, and if CCP is true to form they should change this so that a salvage theif doesnt just get a free isk ride off the backs of missioners. And btw not everyone likes to extesively interacte with players, I know a few that just like to run the missions... and CCP is trying to accomedate everyone.
One way to help this matter is for the ninjas/theives to try and only hit up a player once a day or so. there are plenty of players around and its quite annoying when a salvage theif comes in and takes your last 3 missions worth of salvage.
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:34:00 -
[59]
When rigs & the salvage needed to build them were introduced, 99% of mission runners and ratters didn't bother salvaging 'cos they didn't really know much about it and most of the salvage wasn't worth a lot.
CCP created this 'salvage is free' situation to try and get more of the wrecks salvaged; the idea was that newer players would happily use the salvage that the more experienced mission runners & ratters didn't think was worthwhile.
This is how I understand the thinking that led to the current game mechanics; it never had anything to do with right or wrong or logic or RL salvage rights ( ). Any arguments put forward along those lines were more roleplay/backstory things.
Now, everyone has salvage skills and mission runners know that using a 2nd dedicated salvage/loot ship can add quite a bit to the value of missions. Rigs are very popular and certain salvage items are worth far more than the loot contained in the wrecks.
The mechanics need to be changed just for consistency. If you allow salvage to be stolen, then allow the loot as well. Or the opposite. There's no need any more to have 2 different rules for what is essentially the same type of thing.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.08 00:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Oh a big bad leet PvPer, picking on mission runners how you must quake in your boots at the thought of a PvE ship firing on you.
Actually, no. I know how much damage my ship can take and exactly how fast I can evade capture. So no, sorry. No quaking here.
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Personally I've had a great deal of fun with a cloaked sniper and fields of wrecks. Drop a tech 1 drone for the prober to find and then wait, sooner rather than later the parasites show up and they always get greedy and loot a can, after that I get to collect the slavage theif tears that fuel my ship.
You seem young, or possibly overly agitated at my comments - spelling 'salvage' and 'theif' incorrectly, as you did.
Either way, you must be dealing with 'younger' Ninja Salvagers, who are even interested in your noob drop. You should come to my system sometime. We do some nice Ops where we Ninja Loot an entire system worth of cans...
But, you'd probably screw it up, and try to target any one of us before dropping your cloak first. Even then, once the cloak drops and you've tipped your hand - poof! - we're gone.
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