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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.28 21:10:00 -
[1]
Since recons came out people use covert ops ships less and less because a recon can do everything a cov-ops can but better. I think covert-ops frigates should be the king of their role and here is my suggestion.
Make it so if someone is piloting a covert ops ship they do not show up in local as long as they have no combat mods on their ship(scram/weapons). This would allow covert-ops to do what they are suppose to do which is watch enemy movements undetected. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2008.04.28 21:39:00 -
[2]
Quote: because a recon can do everything a cov-ops can but better.
10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level...
say again?
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King Leopold
Congo Free State
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Posted - 2008.04.28 22:07:00 -
[3]
Quote: 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level...
really.. i'm so over the "get rid of local" argument.. a covert ops pilot worth his salt can scan down ships in less than 28 secs.. and plexes in less than 140 sec.
that's a nice advantage that those "recon" pilots can't do.. --
Read my Blog - Congo Free State
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Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.04.28 22:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Shionoya Risa on 28/04/2008 22:33:23
Originally by: King Leopold and complexes in less than 140 sec.
It's actually 91 with the Sister's launcher, 83/84 with the 5% scan speed implant. But sure, the current Covert Ops role is fine. -----
Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
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0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.28 22:41:00 -
[5]
Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.28 22:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: 0raven0 Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed.
Why should it need fixing, a BS pilot who is fully active moving and renewing safes should not be able to be caught unless he stops tbh.
Cos if you want a cov ops to be able to catch him you would need probes to give insta results as the warp time the cov ops needs to get to him is also a factor.
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0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: 0raven0 Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed.
Why should it need fixing, a BS pilot who is fully active moving and renewing safes should not be able to be caught unless he stops tbh.
Cos if you want a cov ops to be able to catch him you would need probes to give insta results as the warp time the cov ops needs to get to him is also a factor.
Exactly, and the eve motto is nowhere is safe. Atm rotating safes provides you with invulnerability. The whole point of cover-ops scan time was to make safe spots not safe, but they still are. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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BH Certamen
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: 0raven0 Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed.
I agree with lecrotta on this. A Player who makes the effort not to get caught deserves not to die as easy.
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0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: BH Certamen
I agree with lecrotta on this. A Player who makes the effort not to get caught deserves not to die as easy.
Theres the key right there in bold. "...as easy". At the moment its impossible to be killed as battleships warp faster than the maxed possible scan time alone even if they are triple 1600mm plated. Think of the following scenario..
Armageddon BS with 2 plates and 3 trimark rigs escapes an ambush and starts creating and rotating safespots while being probed by multiple covert ops pilots. He does this for 30 minutes(much longer than the agro timer) and then decides to log. Rather than just logging out he decides to warp to a safespot that is on the far side of the system making the warp take a while. As soon as he enters warp he logs and the 1 minute log counter starts. Now it will take him at least 30 seconds to get out of warp and the second that he does the auto-warp starts, takes 18 seconds to align and another 10 to come out of warp. Prob pilot now has a 2 second probe/warp in/decloak/point window to get him.
This is a true story and what I did once in my geddon, its invulnerability, not just "as easy", but completely invulnerable.
In this situation the pod pilot is completely safe eve though no place in eve, especially 0.0 where this took place, should be or is suppose to be safe.
There is no hurt in making cov ops pilots not show up in local if they have no combat mods fitted. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:39:00 -
[10]
Just accept game mechanics as they are, they work exactly the same for you as they do for the rest of eve. If you cant win with your playing style adept instead of whining on the forums.
Next thing you'll ask is making stealth bombers probable while cloaked so i can no longer camp your ice mining systems wouldnt you.
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0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 01:16:00 -
[11]
Stefan we all know you only fly ships that can cloak cause you have no ballz for real pvp. please don't post on these things. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.29 06:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: 0raven0 Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed.
Why should it need fixing, a BS pilot who is fully active moving and renewing safes should not be able to be caught unless he stops tbh.
Cos if you want a cov ops to be able to catch him you would need probes to give insta results as the warp time the cov ops needs to get to him is also a factor.
Exactly, and the eve motto is nowhere is safe. Atm rotating safes provides you with invulnerability. The whole point of cover-ops scan time was to make safe spots not safe, but they still are.
Remember to ask for the "detonate all not friendly in system module" too, or you will be too weak.
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Amberly Coteaz
Amarr Tarnak inc. The Nexus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 12:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: 0raven0
Originally by: BH Certamen
I agree with lecrotta on this. A Player who makes the effort not to get caught deserves not to die as easy.
Theres the key right there in bold. "...as easy". At the moment its impossible to be killed as battleships warp faster than the maxed possible scan time alone even if they are triple 1600mm plated. Think of the following scenario..
Armageddon BS with 2 plates and 3 trimark rigs escapes an ambush and starts creating and rotating safespots while being probed by multiple covert ops pilots. He does this for 30 minutes(much longer than the agro timer) and then decides to log. Rather than just logging out he decides to warp to a safespot that is on the far side of the system making the warp take a while. As soon as he enters warp he logs and the 1 minute log counter starts. Now it will take him at least 30 seconds to get out of warp and the second that he does the auto-warp starts, takes 18 seconds to align and another 10 to come out of warp. Prob pilot now has a 2 second probe/warp in/decloak/point window to get him.
This is a true story and what I did once in my geddon, its invulnerability, not just "as easy", but completely invulnerable.
In this situation the pod pilot is completely safe eve though no place in eve, especially 0.0 where this took place, should be or is suppose to be safe.
There is no hurt in making cov ops pilots not show up in local if they have no combat mods fitted.
So you're telling me that someone who doesn't dock, pull a logofski, safespot and cloak, but just warps round from safe spot to safe spot whilst dropping fresh bookmarks actually deserves to get probed down and ganked just because you rolled into the system?
Im all for but your idea is just
If you find yourself in a fair fight, something has gone wrong |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.29 14:10:00 -
[14]
Quote: Exactly, and the eve motto is nowhere is safe. Atm rotating safes provides you with invulnerability. The whole point of cover-ops scan time was to make safe spots not safe, but they still are.
That's nonsense. Safe spots are not completely safe, it's just that he's constantly flying around dodging the enemy. *OBVIOUSLY* it needs to be possible for people who dedicate 100% of their time to running and hiding to evade capture/detection.
It sounds like you won't be satisfied until you are guaranteed to catch anyone you ever decide to attack...that's not the way EVE works. If people are alert and take appropriate counter measures, they can escape.
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.29 14:41:00 -
[15]
Op is off base, Coverts work great for their intended roles, everything is fine, nothing to see here
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0raven0
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: 0raven0 on 29/04/2008 20:13:11
Originally by: Ulstan *OBVIOUSLY* it needs to be possible for people who dedicate 100% of their time to running and hiding to evade capture/detection.
I completely agree it should be possible, but not absolute. It should also be possible for a ship specifically designed to counter this to have a chance at successfully doing so, but there is no chance with the current game mechanics. With current game mechanics if both pilots try 100% of their time to evade/catch the other the one evading will always win. ------
Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: Exactly, and the eve motto is nowhere is safe. Atm rotating safes provides you with invulnerability. The whole point of cover-ops scan time was to make safe spots not safe, but they still are.
That's nonsense. Safe spots are not completely safe, it's just that he's constantly flying around dodging the enemy. *OBVIOUSLY* it needs to be possible for people who dedicate 100% of their time to running and hiding to evade capture/detection.
It sounds like you won't be satisfied until you are guaranteed to catch anyone you ever decide to attack...that's not the way EVE works. If people are alert and take appropriate counter measures, they can escape.
To be fair, the OP's suggestion would still mainly just affect the careless.
I don't know how I feel about it myself. As a CovOps enthusiast, it sounds fun, and like a good and fairly conservative way to experiment with tweaking local, and I don't doubt it would produce some interesting situations. But I'm not sure whether that would be enough to make up for even more use of cloaks, logoffs, and reflexive safespotting which people would use to deal with it.
It's probably not worth it unless cloaks and logoff mechanics are sorted out better than they are. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:49:00 -
[18]
Probing is already too easy, it doesn't need to be made any easier.
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.05.07 19:37:00 -
[19]
hrmm,,, i can admit, having a range bonus on scrams for the covert ops would be sorta sweet :P ... decloak and WHAM, 'ur farked!'
i dunno, some sort of combat role would be nice (a non damage type role)
but whatever, thats wishfull thinking ;) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.07 21:11:00 -
[20]
Recons also cost a lot more to replace, and the only time a recon has any "advantage" over using a covert ops is when they're decloaked, and killing a target (therefore making themselves vulnerable). In addition, covops can probe a lot faster, and can align/warp faster.
The covops role can be performed by both, but the covops is cheaper and easier to replace, and can probe, align and warp much more quickly. It's like saying Frigates have no role because Cruisers have more firepower: but they're not the same thing.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.05.07 21:16:00 -
[21]
Why not give cov ops the ability to scan out (non cov ops cloak II) cloakers?
Two birds with one stone, Cov Ops get a boost that aligns with their intended role of scanning, and nerfs the omnipresent difficulty in finding and killing an afk cloaked ship.
Obviously the idea needs a bit of work, say the anti-cloak scan takes 5 minutes or something so a relatively aware player can do something before the gank squad arrives... But this seems a lot better than removing cov ops from local
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.07 21:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim Why not give cov ops the ability to scan out (non cov ops cloak II) cloakers?
Two birds with one stone, Cov Ops get a boost that aligns with their intended role of scanning, and nerfs the omnipresent difficulty in finding and killing an afk cloaked ship.
Because it stops non afk cloakers from being effective in systems that they are massively outnumbered.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.05.07 22:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: lecrotta Because it stops non afk cloakers from being effective in systems that they are massively outnumbered.
I don't think so at all.
a lengthly time on the scan allows you to see what's happening on directional scanner and decloak and change safespots or utilize some other method of escape.
Maybe the scan points your position at the beginning of the scan cycle but doesnt allow you to warp to it until it finishes, meaning that the spot attackers fly to is 5 minutes old and the cloaker, if active, could be anywhere by then.
Like I said it needs work but I dont think that criticism is enough to totally defeat the idea.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.05.08 20:25:00 -
[24]
if probing is made even easier then logoffskis will become the 100% norm.
logoffs need to be changed somehow first. I respect the ratters then safe up and cloak when i enter looking to hunt them. As soon as non covops cloaks are probable, it will be just logoff everytime someone enters local.
Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
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Marcus Gideon
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Posted - 2008.05.09 00:38:00 -
[25]
As far as Probing / Detecting Cloaked ships... check my thread for a possible solution.
Particularly the part about an Astrometric Detector module. The kind that would be extremely helpful to mount onto a Covert Ops ship for the bonuses, and the kind of thing that would give this Scout / Spy ship it's purpose back.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.05.09 01:42:00 -
[26]
I love it when a pilot that can use a cov ops cloak *****es about other people being 'impossible' to kill.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.09 03:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 0raven0 Thats something else that needs to be fixed. People can now just rotate safespots indefinitely creating a new one every warp and never get caught. a BS can warp in under 20 seconds and with mwd in 10 seconds which is faster than any cov-ops can probe. This needs to be fixed.
Why would this need to be fixed? Every OTHER ship, INCLUDING TITANS, can do this. OMFGWTFBBQHAX! No, its a perfectly legal game device. If the pilot in question is trying to avoid you that much, he should be able to!
Also, CovOps are perfect as they are. Probing is fine, therefore covops are fine. Their role is explained in their bonuses, with the probing bonus per level.
Faction Store |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 04:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: King Leopold
Quote: 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level...
really.. i'm so over the "get rid of local" argument.. a covert ops pilot worth his salt can scan down ships in less than 28 secs.. and plexes in less than 140 sec.
that's a nice advantage that those "recon" pilots can't do..
Surely you mean 24.3 without hardwirings. :)
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