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DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:20:00 - [1] Situation - Trading Materials, buying low selling high... Buy 500k of an Isotope at aprox 465isk Each 2 Days later Buy Order is filled. 1 Day later Isotopes Highest buy is 435 and lowest sell order is 445. Do you hold the Isotopes hope for higher prices again? Do you sell, get isk back into better items? Why? I chose the sell it and move on, not a big loss, just curious what others thought and how they would handle this.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:26:00 - [2] 240 mil is not really a huge amount to have tied up in my mind, but every bit counts i suppose. I'd just sit on it probably, unless you saw an opportunity which required that ISK to make more back than what profits waiting on that stock would give you. Uh, so leave it there till you need to liquidate it,, Improve Market Competition!
Athanasios Anastasiou The Illuminati.	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Athanasios Anastasiou on 21/04/2008 23:32:47 For me, it depends on a lot of things. It depends on the overall 'average' price of the isotope for past couple of weeks. If its closer to 435, then sell. It depends on whether its a large amount of isk to be tied up. If it is, sell. I would say more, but that would reveal a few secrets. In reality, its impossible to make a decision based on the little information you gave.
Kwint Sommer Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:49:00 - [4] My minimum acceptable return is 7% monthly. So, if you're not confident that you can make 7% above its current value over the next month by holding onto it, then take the loss, liquidate it and invest it in something that will earn you more. By the way, if you couldn't see the downward trend in the isotope market then you're blind and if don't understand the mechanism by which it declines then you'll get caught with undervalued stock. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Seb Balaak	Posted - 2008.04.21 23:54:00 - [5] Edited by: Seb Balaak on 21/04/2008 23:54:45 The only thing that really matters is whether you think the market will go up or down. You know what to do, it's just hard ignoring your feelings about it. Don't listen to your emotions, don't listen to others, listen to the market. May it's force guide you. p.s. you did the right thing
The Socialworker Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.04.22 00:21:00 - [6] I would think the most important fractor is the size of your wallet. If you need the cash to work with you take the loss, but if you are a grizzled old trader with bulging pockets you can just wait as long as it takes to turn a profit, or throw a hissy fit and apply a pile of isk leverage and force one.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.04.22 00:28:00 - [7] So let me summarize. You have no clue what to do and you want to get people to tell you what to do, but you know they wouldn't want to so you claim to have already done something. Anyone who can look at a graph would know what to do here and would have known if making such a buy order was smart or not.
Shakuul Caldari Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.04.22 01:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Shadarle Anyone who can look at a graph would know what to do here and would have known if making such a buy order was smart or not. Where's the part of the graph that shows the future price? I guess trend following works some of the time but it seems kind of naive. Are eve markets really that simple?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.22 01:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Shadarle You have no clue what to do and you want to get people to tell you what to do, but you know they wouldn't want to so you claim to have already done something. Try something different, be nice. ;-p If it was just a product I'd probably dump 50 - 75% off right now just to turn over stock. I'd hedge a bit with the last 25% in case prices shoot upwards and help recover some loss later on. However whenever I buy something, anything, it is almost never for market resale (though many times I resell stuff!). I buy product for what uses I can make of it.... and saying that yes resale is a use but never a primary one. Isotopes... I'd see if it is an isotope to be used at any of my Pos's. If not, I'd then check in with all the cap pilots I know. Then there is the various pos running alliances that I have friendships in (and trust) that could always use the product. Because of the relationship(s) I've constructed my product will get bought at what I "need" it to sell at instead of having to cut my pinky off at a joint to meet market. That, often enough, is the value of networking in business. Gaining access to resources less than market or having people who will pay you a little extra instead of paying a stranger (or in this case a macroer likely) better than market rate. Sorry, didn't mean to make this a sermon. Your questions is essentially a straight poker question of "Do you have guts or brains?" and well I hedged. Make of that what you will.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:20:00 - [10] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 03:23:41 Originally by: DeathGrip Situation - Trading Materials, buying low selling high... Buy 500k of an Isotope at aprox 465isk Each 2 Days later Buy Order is filled. 1 Day later Isotopes Highest buy is 435 and lowest sell order is 445. Do you hold the Isotopes hope for higher prices again? Do you sell, get isk back into better items? Why? I chose the sell it and move on, not a big loss, just curious what others thought and how they would handle this. WTF is this? Jesus. Have you been feeling lonely lately? Just a bit? No? Then check the price history to determine the cycle and potential price dynamics you experienced fool. Now ask yourself, can you wait that long for the cycle to complete or do you have a better investment in mind for the same timeframe even if that means selling your isotopes asap at a loss. "I don't haul, period."

YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:50:00 - [11] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 03:54:11 Originally by: Shar Tegral Isotopes... I'd see if it is an isotope to be used at any of my Pos's. If not, I'd then check in with all the cap pilots I know. Then there is the various pos running alliances that I have friendships in (and trust) that could always use the product. Because of the relationship(s) I've constructed my product will get bought at what I "need" it to sell at instead of having to cut my pinky off at a joint to meet market. You should also consider mailing each and every one in Eve (just in case your petty offering fails), however DO PRAY that they won't run a check for the actual price in Jita. It's no wonder you have health issues Shar.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:57:00 - [12] Originally by: YouGotRipped You should also consider mailing each and every one in Eve (just in case your petty offering fails), however DO PRAY that they won't run a check for the actual price in Jita. This was a subjective bit of wondering, moron. Originally by: YouGotRipped It's no wonder you have health issues Shar. In case you are wondering, this is why I'm hostile to you ******. Welcome to my greasemonkey block list. To Shar -verb*: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:02:00 - [13] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 04:12:07 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: YouGotRipped You should also consider mailing each and every one in Eve (just in case your petty offering fails), however DO PRAY that they won't run a check for the actual price in Jita. This was a subjective bit of wondering, moron. Originally by: YouGotRipped It's no wonder you have health issues Shar. In case you are wondering, this is why I'm hostile to you *****. Welcome to my greasemonkey block list. Now, now... LADY, calm down! I was merely trying to introduce you to the concept of profit efficiency. Originally by:** Shar Tegral Try something different, be nice. ;-p "I don't haul, period."
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:43:00 - [14] Originally by: YouGotRipped I was merely trying to introduce you to the concept of profit efficiency. Mens sana in corpore malum. I'm well introduced to many economic concepts and theories. After all, you alts entrusts me and my fellows with a fair amount of your own isk at the moment so please refrain from... trolling. What I described is simply a process that can be used regardless of the ego-centric nature of Jita and of those who live in Jita. There is a universe outside of Jita and it would be foolish indeed to base all decisions simply based on one location. (Not that the lemmings or those guiding the lemmings will validate that kind of thinking.) As to the latin, please refrain from thinking that my current health situation has anything to do with my thought processes. It is unclear as to whether any choice of mine was the cause of my illness and, in truth, it is also unclear how much it may (in fact) be affecting my thinking. So please, refrain from taking such a cheap shot until after I die from it. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 04:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: YouGotRipped I was merely trying to introduce you to the concept of profit efficiency. Mens sana in corpore malum. I'm well introduced to many economic concepts and theories. After all, you alts entrusts me and my fellows with a fair amount of your own isk at the moment so please refrain from... trolling. What I described is simply a process that can be used regardless of the ego-centric nature of Jita and of those who live in Jita. There is a universe outside of Jita and it would be foolish indeed to base all decisions simply based on one location. (Not that the lemmings or those guiding the lemmings will validate that kind of thinking.) As to the latin, please refrain from thinking that my current health situation has anything to do with my thought processes. It is unclear as to whether any choice of mine was the cause of my illness and, in truth, it is also unclear how much it may (in fact) be affecting my thinking. So please, refrain from taking such a cheap shot until after I die from it. Jeder stirbt alleine. "I don't haul, period."
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.22 05:07:00 - [16] Originally by: YouGotRipped Jeder stirbt alleine. Those that treasure those around them almost never die alone. The need for the legal term "Commorientes" refutes your statement. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.04.22 06:12:00 - [17] Originally by: DeathGrip Situation - Trading Materials, buying low selling high... Buy 500k of an Isotope at aprox 465isk Each 2 Days later Buy Order is filled. 1 Day later Isotopes Highest buy is 435 and lowest sell order is 445. Do you hold the Isotopes hope for higher prices again? Do you sell, get isk back into better items? Why? I chose the sell it and move on, not a big loss, just curious what others thought and how they would handle this. I choose to put them in my capital ships and jump playfully across the galaxy blowing things up. Or put them in my capital ship and jump them to somewhere they will sell for 3x that.
Taryn Ceridwen Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.04.22 07:48:00 - [18] I would have hauled it to another hub where certain isotopes sell for 600+ pu and there is a decent daily turnover.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.04.22 11:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Shadarle So let me summarize. You have no clue what to do and you want to get people to tell you what to do, but you know they wouldn't want to so you claim to have already done something. Anyone who can look at a graph would know what to do here and would have known if making such a buy order was smart or not. You really are an idiot. That is really all I can think of to say. If you don't believe I already did my choice take a look at Ray's OFFLINE WALLET, I am the demo version, it's very easy to see everything I do.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.04.22 11:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Taryn Ceridwen I would have hauled it to another hub where certain isotopes sell for 600+ pu and there is a decent daily turnover. This would have been what I did if I could actually sign in and not just having my wife do buy and sell orders for me via one station.

Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 11:28:00 - [21] Originally by: DeathGrip Situation - Trading Materials, buying low selling high... Buy 500k of an Isotope at aprox 465isk Each 2 Days later Buy Order is filled. 1 Day later Isotopes Highest buy is 435 and lowest sell order is 445. Do you hold the Isotopes hope for higher prices again? Do you sell, get isk back into better items? Why? I chose the sell it and move on, not a big loss, just curious what others thought and how they would handle this. Depends if the item is in a temporary trough as well. You may also want to consider lowering your cost basis by buying more stock at an even lower cost, most likely in a slightly more risky location (ie lowsec) In other words, you bought 500k at 465 (232.5m), now buy 2m more at 400 (800m) in some other place, and although you will have 1.032b in topes, your cost basis per unit will be reduced from 465 to 413 and you have 2.5m topes to sell. Now sell that at the 435 netting you 1.0875b, thus netting you a 55.5m profit. Use this only when you know demand for the item is high enough (for topes, it should be), and when you have the unfortunate situation whereby your cost basis is suddenly higher, like you were in. However it does involve taking a risk to turn around such a misfortune, which can also be met with other misfortune, so do it with a pinch of salt. Now, it seems to me you spotted an opportunity and tried to capitalise on it without knowing the item's behaviour inside out, which is probably why you got your fingers burnt. I personally specialise and focus on 10-15 items of varying volume and margin, which in total net me a roughly equivalent amount at the end, but with these I largely know everything about the item, including any cycles, and their elasticity for manipulation.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.04.22 11:41:00 - [22] Originally by: DeathGrip Originally by: Shadarle So let me summarize. You have no clue what to do and you want to get people to tell you what to do, but you know they wouldn't want to so you claim to have already done something. Anyone who can look at a graph would know what to do here and would have known if making such a buy order was smart or not. You really are an idiot. That is really all I can think of to say. If you don't believe I already did my choice take a look at Ray's OFFLINE WALLET, I am the demo version, it's very easy to see everything I do. Proof that Shadarle is a mentally deficient idiot (as if you needed any). And also proof that Derrick pwns. [WTS] Shares \| Secured ISK Loans
Seb Balaak	Posted - 2008.04.22 16:18:00 - [23] Edited by: Seb Balaak on 22/04/2008 16:25:46 Originally by: Mr Horizontal Depends if the item is in a temporary trough as well. You may also want to consider lowering your cost basis by buying more stock at an even lower cost, most likely in a slightly more risky location (ie lowsec) In other words, you bought 500k at 465 (232.5m), now buy 2m more at 400 (800m) in some other place, and although you will have 1.032b in topes, your cost basis per unit will be reduced from 465 to 413 and you have 2.5m topes to sell. Now sell that at the 435 netting you 1.0875b, thus netting you a 55.5m profit. Use this only when you know demand for the item is high enough (for topes, it should be), and when you have the unfortunate situation whereby your cost basis is suddenly higher, like you were in. I was considering getting into advanced economics about this but I decided against it (would take too much of my time, I'm lazy). The least I can point out is that allthough all these options like the above one, or selling to alliance mates, selling them somewhere else, etc. are viable options, they have (or had) nothing to do with your position. They are different paths/avenues of making profit on investment. mmm, let's see, can I add something to that? It would be easier to think about it in terms of positions, you are selling isotopes @ 435 in a certain location(A) for a certain volume in a given amount of time. Now, say you can buy isotopes in a different location(B) for a lower price and move them over to your current location(A), but that will not lower your first position, you will increase your position (you are now selling more isotopes in location A). However, since you have moved the goods to a different location (from B to A) you will have increased your secondary investment to a higher value dependent on the sales price fluctuations and volume for a given amount of time of location A. It's the same for moving your product from location A to B. Location A = jita? Location B = low sec buying point, own pos, alliance mates, other good selling location, etc. Even if you were selling isotopes for a 1000 and making a huge profit in jita, you should still theoraticly always be looking at location B and it's possibilities, allthough everything boiles down to your own time invested and your level of enjoyment. Now when you can sell at location A to alliance mates for a higher price, then you're talking about a whole other way of making profit, I guess that just boiles down to level of enjoyment, some people in this game just hate clicking that annoying lagged market button, and will pay you to do it for them. Oh yes, and it all comes down again to what I said before, what will the market do in comparison to your position and the level of return you get from it within a certain timeframe. Remember, moving goods you already have from location A to B is the same thing as buying goods from A to sell at B. Can't think of anything else to explain it better.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.22 17:30:00 - [24] Well, you ask yourself two questions 1) Do I think the market is going to swing back up soon? (Presumably yes, since if it was in a steady downward decline you would never have bought them in the first place. But if the answer is no then you liquidate ASAP and move on) 2) Do I have enough other capital to exploit all opportunities I see? If yes, then just hang onto the isotopes and wait for prices to come back up. If you are able to find juicy opportunities constantly for every single ISK in your wallet, then go ahead and liquidate now to free up that isk for more productive use.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 20:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: DeathGrip Originally by: Shadarle So let me summarize. You have no clue what to do and you want to get people to tell you what to do, but you know they wouldn't want to so you claim to have already done something. Anyone who can look at a graph would know what to do here and would have known if making such a buy order was smart or not. You really are an idiot. That is really all I can think of to say. If you don't believe I already did my choice take a look at Ray's OFFLINE WALLET, I am the demo version, it's very easy to see everything I do. Proof that Shadarle is a mentally deficient idiot (as if you needed any). And also proof that Derrick pwns. Unfortunately Derrick doesn't pwn, he just got lucky. The issue here is not establishing whether or not Shadarle is what you say he is (no one likes the guy) but appraising price history graphs and trends. Jeder stirbt alleine.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.04.22 21:13:00 - [26] Originally by: YouGotRipped It's no wonder you have health issues Shar. Why do you have to be such an ass? You can't leave your trolling and bickering to Eve related content? I don't care much for you, but if you had RL health related issues I still wouldn't insult you in such a way. Whether you're 14 years old or 44 years old doesn't really matter, there are some things you just shouldn't say. Amarr Citizen 155 ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 22:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: YouGotRipped It's no wonder you have health issues Shar. Why do you have to be such an ass? You can't leave your trolling and bickering to Eve related content? I don't care much for you, but if you had RL health related issues I still wouldn't insult you in such a way. Whether you're 14 years old or 44 years old doesn't really matter, there are some things you just shouldn't say. Amarr Citizen 155 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=709855 Originally by: Shar Tegral I've come to realize that my capabilities, and/or competence, for the current task has finally reached the point where I am unsuitable. This diminishing has been gradual and, in retrospect, persistent and I have no doubts that it'll get a bit worse before it gets better. Perpetual cellular replication aside, it would seem to me like he's been overworking himself. Jeder stirbt alleine.
Essarr Andemm	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Essarr Andemm on 22/04/2008 23:09:58 Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Shar Tegral I've come to realize that my capabilities, and/or competence, for the current task has finally reached the point where I am unsuitable. This diminishing has been gradual and, in retrospect, persistent and I have no doubts that it'll get a bit worse before it gets better. Perpetual cellular replication aside, it would seem to me like he's been overworking himself. Exactly what part of Shar's chemotherapy you think is relevant enough to troll him about?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:20:00 - [29] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/04/2008 23:21:27 Originally by: Essarr Andemm Edited by: Essarr Andemm on 22/04/2008 23:09:58 Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Shar Tegral I've come to realize that my capabilities, and/or competence, for the current task has finally reached the point where I am unsuitable. This diminishing has been gradual and, in retrospect, persistent and I have no doubts that it'll get a bit worse before it gets better. Perpetual cellular replication aside, it would seem to me like he's been overworking himself. Exactly what part of Shar's chemotherapy you think is relevant enough to troll him about? The part that he considered necessary to post in the forums of course. With all the gruesome details. You cannot display a hostile attitude towards the rest of the community and expect later to receive compassion. Are we done with this subject?
Essarr Andemm	Posted - 2008.04.22 23:38:00 - [30] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Essarr Andemm Exactly what part of Shar's chemotherapy you think is relevant enough to troll him about? The part that he considered necessary to post in the forums of course. With all the gruesome details. You cannot display a hostile attitude towards the rest of the community and expect later to receive compassion. Are we done with this subject? You are the ass that started this... for no ***** reason. So please tell us, are you done with being a jackass and ******?



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