Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Oktacon
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 00:19:00 -
[1]
I've just started cross training into Matar after basically maxing out my Caldari BS and down skills and am curious as to how good Matar is PVP wise.
Im thinking of just taking a rifter, fitting it, and flying it around.
So the question is, how should I go along making a Matar PVP character? I'm a complete noob at guns. |
Sajuukkar
Amarr Idle Miners
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 01:32:00 -
[2]
There are others who are more qualified to tell you this, and I am sure they will while saying ôSaj is a n00b,ö but I will give you my experience since it is somewhat similar to yours.
I trained Amarr for quite a while, disliked them (specifically their Tech I cruisers, and got to fly Recons two days before the NOS nerf). So I cross trained Minmatar because they sounded hard.
They werenÆt at first. Rifter, Minmatar AFs, and the Stiletto are excellent PvP ships. Also, if you can fly Recons, there is always a role for Minmatar Recons in a gang. So this was good.
Then, the BSÆs and the HACs. These did not perform well (yes, I was disappointed in the Vaga) because I did not know how to fly them. The higher end, non-support Minmatar ships seem to take lots of RL and EVE skill to get to be effective.
So the ease is like an inverted bell-curve I guess, easy and effective for smaller ships, harder for the larger and less specialized ones until you have the SP and the piloting skill to specialty-fit and fly one of the larger ships.
But they are a lot of fun to fly...
|
Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention Reavers.
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 01:45:00 -
[3]
Hmm.
Minmatar have many great ships. They don't have the best ganks or the best tanks, but they have great adaptability.
To fly the full range of minnie ships requires skills in many places: armor and shield tanking, projectiles and missiles, aswell as drones. But you can start with an emphasis on certain ships and then gradually move onto others as your skills are competitive.
The most important difference is the one between not having and having T2 autocannons since Barrage (ammo) offers such a great falloff range to work with. You should therefore prioritise getting that first. Autocannons always operate within falloff, and manipulating range to your advantage using the knowledge of your enemies' range weaknesses is central. Gunnery skills in general will be important.
As far as shield tanking is concerned, only a few minmatar ships are suitable for active tanking. None of them are usually flown like the other minmatar ships because dedicating midslots to tanking neccessitaties the sacrifice of important tackling gear. Most therefore either armor tank or use a passive extender tank and a speed-oriented (read: nano) fit.
Now, as for knowing your strengths and weaknesses. As lack of raw damage and tanking is usually your weakness, very rarely should you want to rush directly at a hostile ship and duke it out in web range if they are of similar size. And most likely they will be looking to do just that to you. Usually you will have a natural advantage in nimbleness from ship base stats, but that is not always enough. Autocannons have great tracking which means that you should always try to maximise your transversal velocity (and minmatar ships also have the lowest sigs).
But you may also be range disadvantaged against lasers or missiles. If you are fighting a laser ship, their optimal will extend to all of scrambling distance, and staying further away will mostly just decrease your own damage through falloff. Against them you should go into a tight orbit, usually 14.5 km to avoid overloaded webbing distance. Or if you are not in a nano ship, you may want to go up close and personal to maximise your damage, but you are also taking a gamble on who can win the damage race.
Against blasters you can orbit a bit farther if they are using null ammo, and move closer if you're not breaking their tank. Against missiles you should do drive-by's with minimal transversal to maximise your tracking and burst the mwd to get velocity up to reduce missile damage. You can also just go hug them and hope they don't have a web. Most of the time they don't, but it's your gamble. You can usually find out by doing drive-by's and if you get webbed you can still get momentum to carry you out of its range.
For bigger, less nimble ships it's a bit different. You have to keep a keen eye on what your enemy is doing because accelerating is slow and if you're not on the ball, a slower opponent may be coming toward you at speed while you're sweating to build up your velocity. Starting engagements at 20km+ is normally to your advantage as you can start dealing damage instantly and have a safety margin for reacting to enemy movements. It gets tricky against lasers and missiles, though.
Having a tackler is invaluable because it allows you to extend beyond the disruptor range and take more advantage of range (with large autocannons). At 30km ish lasers will have to switch to longer range crystals which balances the race somewhat. Against torpedoes you should get outside their range (at which point they will switch to javelins or most likely not have remembered to bring them).
One thing that minnies can also use to their advantage is the lack of cap use on guns. In other words, fitting neutralizers. And many ships have suitable utility hislots for the purpose, too. Plated buffer armor tank + neuts is a good combo for ships like Tempest and Hurricane.
In short, invest in good gunnery and learn to know the strengths and weaknesses of other ships. --- CEO
|
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 01:53:00 -
[4]
I experimented with all the races frigs until I tried the Rifter and fell in love. Been flying Minmatar ever since
Minmatar ships are solid, although if you do not like 'nano' ships you'll lack a effective HAC (as the Munnin isn't very hot) - try it out early with a Stabber (T2 guns + falloff rig, naturally, it doesn't work at all otherwise) to see if you like that.
T2 ACs are a must for frigs/cruisers/BCs - the medium sized ones already give you enough falloff to play outside of webrange which you will find a absolute must for fighting blasterboats. Our ships in general require good navigations to bring out their strong points, so train these.
Good gunneries and high ship skills (particularly and especially on double damage bonused ships, like the Rupture and the Hurricane) are quite necessary for them to shine.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
6Bagheera9
Foundation R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 02:18:00 -
[5]
I choose Minmatar because of the Brutor chick in the race selection background. Amarr: Chastity belt ftl. Caldari: Ice Queen Gallente: Plain Jane Minmatar: Hellz Yeah!
|
Tony Allizzar
POINT CLICK KILL
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 02:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tony Allizzar on 13/04/2008 02:23:55 i know this is off topic slightly, but... as your skilled up in caldari, would it not be wiser to cross train gallente (however they spell it) as your hybrid turret skills would apply to it, and everyone needs drones anyway. I just think u would save alot of time and have much neater skills
BTW im not a mini hater. Im mini spec, just making a suggestion
|
Msobe
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 02:37:00 -
[7]
On the other hand, both shield tanking and missile skills will be useful in flying minmatar ships, but go largely to waste flying gallente ships.
Minmatar ships are certainly popular in pvp. Whatever else can be said about them, they definitely aren't useless.
|
Tony Allizzar
POINT CLICK KILL
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 02:49:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tony Allizzar on 13/04/2008 02:52:29
Originally by: Msobe On the other hand, both shield tanking and missile skills will be useful in flying minmatar ships, but go largely to waste flying gallente ships.
Good point, though u are gonna have to armour tank on ships like the rupture, typhoon and to some point the tempest if ur using auto cannons. Duel large reppers for the win Mini ships are VERY skill insensive, but are very rewarding in the long run. There is gonna be pros an cons however u look at it, but hey... thats just eve
|
Umar Khattab
Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 05:03:00 -
[9]
If you're a Caldari Fly Khanid! Don't even think one more second! KHANID man!
DUDEISM.COM |
Oktacon
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 21:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tony Allizzar Edited by: Tony Allizzar on 13/04/2008 02:23:55 i know this is off topic slightly, but... as your skilled up in caldari, would it not be wiser to cross train gallente (however they spell it) as your hybrid turret skills would apply to it, and everyone needs drones anyway. I just think u would save alot of time and have much neater skills
BTW im not a mini hater. Im mini spec, just making a suggestion
Ehh, I considered it, but I moved awwy. I realized that even if I could use my Hybrid Guns Skills ( I have Small Hybrid Guns V) thats it(I just realized that when I meant fully skilled up, I meant fully skilled up to fit a full T2 Raven, Even on a Rokh, I fly a 4 Siege Launcher 2xNos, 2x Neut Setup.
So I wouldn't lose much. I really don't care about drones really..I have drones 5, but thats about it.
I decided to go Mini because my Shield Tanking Skills would still apply, and I could still put my hard earned missile skills to work, unlike Gallente, which I would basically have to restart everything.
|
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
|
Posted - 2008.04.13 21:18:00 -
[11]
I've crosstrained Caldari to Minmatar. There's some good synergies to exploit - you get usage out of your shield and missile skills, and any supporting gunnery you got for hybrids.
They're also rather different in style. Minmatar ships are about a size smaller than they should be. Caldari ships are about a size larger.
Minmatar ships are good, but they're challenging to use well. Your major weakness by 'crossing over' will be in learning how to handle the gunnery, and to make use of the fact your ships typically have a mobility advantage.
Autocannons in particular, are great, but you never really get to use them at 'optimal', so you're always trading off tracking, for falloff.
Mobility is shockingly powerful if used well, and ... well, just an expensive ego stroke if you don't.
IMO autocannons are the way to go. Artillery ... well, they're nice enough, but personally for long range gunnery I'd be more inclined to stick with Caldari ships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Oktacon
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 04:42:00 -
[12]
So, for a ship like a Rifter, what would be a good fit? I've never fit anything that was not caldari, and so am new to the ways of the nano turret.
|
Boz Well
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 06:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9 I choose Minmatar because of the Brutor chick in the race selection background. Amarr: Chastity belt ftl. Caldari: Ice Queen Gallente: Plain Jane Minmatar: Hellz Yeah!
Lolz
|
Tuncan
Minmatar Amistad Annihilate Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 09:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Oktacon So, for a ship like a Rifter, what would be a good fit? I've never fit anything that was not caldari, and so am new to the ways of the nano turret.
It depends on what you want to do. But for fleets, u may try 3 ac,1 nos or missile 1mwd,1scram,1web 1 nano 2 overdrive
Just try it yourself mate =) its just a 250k isk frig =)
|
Admiral Madbull
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 11:25:00 -
[15]
With the coming nerf to nano, your guess is as good as mine, but most likely minmatar will get hit hard.
bye bye nano vaga |
El Dracula
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 11:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Admiral Madbull bye bye nano vaga
Everything will slow down. The Vaga will still be the fastest HAC, and capable of reaching proportionally similar speeds. |
Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention Reavers.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 12:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: El Dracula
Originally by: Admiral Madbull bye bye nano vaga
Everything will slow down. The Vaga will still be the fastest HAC, and capable of reaching proportionally similar speeds.
Its speed proportional to other similarly sized ships is not what matters. Will tracking slow down? Will missile explosion velocity be reduced? Will bubbles be made smaller? Will optimal ranges be reduced? You see, effective manipulation of range is more than just going 'faster than thou'. But let us reserve the discussion for after the changes are actually announced. --- CEO
|
Harrana
omen. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 12:31:00 -
[18]
Those are all good points, but generally, I think the Vaga is considered the best HAC because of its ability to GTFO, rather than its killing power, so as long as its faster than its counterparts, its still a great ship. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 12:40:00 -
[19]
From my own experience with all races except amarr i have concluded that flying minmatar is just alot more fun than other races.
Yes i know i spelled COAD wrong. Stop mailing me about it
I refuse to read SHC |
Tregaron
Minmatar Filthy Scum
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 14:12:00 -
[20]
Best HAC = vaga Best recon = Huginn Best HID = Broadsword
enough said |
|
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 14:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: DubanFP on 15/04/2008 14:17:36
Originally by: Tregaron Best HAC = vaga Best recon = Huginn Best HID = Broadsword
enough said
I wouldn't say THE best, but they're definately at least tied for best with the ishtar, falcon, and onyx respectively. _______________
ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 21:01:00 -
[22]
Matari pilots are all extreme masochists, so stay away from this group of troubled souls....
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Vymorna Grom
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 00:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tregaron Best HAC = vaga Best recon = Huginn Best HID = Broadsword
enough said
Not quite enough ;)
Hurricane - this BC is right up there, performs as well as it looks Rupture - probably the toughest cruiser out there Typhoon - provided you've got the skills, this is a PvE'ers dream-machine Rifter - needs no description
As long as you are prepared to put the time in to training, Minmatar can be the most rewarding race out there, with some of the most fun ships to fly.
---------------------------------- Originally by: Ralara
Because you touch yourself at night.
(dear god, that took 9 logins to post) |
Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 01:22:00 -
[24]
-Caldari have the benifit of allowing you to get right into ships and at least be able to do something. Poor T2 missles are the main reason for this. -Gallente have very clear paths for their ships, drone and blaster ships. There are very good ships in both fields all the way to battleships in these catagories. -Amarr require a lot of dedication before they start to pay off, perfect engery skills and very high gunnery skills are a must - anything less then perfect means you have a terrible ship. -Minmatar are fast. They hit a little weak, they don't tank very well, and they have great ships up to CSs. But their battleships and capitals are sub-par.
Personally, if I were Caldari, I would train Gallente. But both Minmatar and Amarr provide good alternatives. All races have very strong ships. Try the rifter and punisher. . .then move from there. ----
|
Para Bela
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 02:14:00 -
[25]
I'm a new Minmatar pilot (playing EVE for three weeks now) and do have a little question: I rarely if ever see artillery proposed for PvP fittings for example for the Rupture. What's the reason for this? Is it because it's too difficult to stop an enemy from closing in?
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 02:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Para Bela I'm a new Minmatar pilot (playing EVE for three weeks now) and do have a little question: I rarely if ever see artillery proposed for PvP fittings for example for the Rupture. What's the reason for this? Is it because it's too difficult to stop an enemy from closing in?
Artillery is beset with a host of problems and very few bonuses. On the one hand you have a relatively high alpha strike capability, on the other hand you have fairly low DPS, terrible tracking and pitiful clip sizes.
Most minnie ships I ever see just spew the autocannons at me until I explode. |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 04:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Artillery is beset with a host of problems and very few bonuses. On the one hand you have a relatively high alpha strike capability, on the other hand you have fairly low DPS, terrible tracking and pitiful clip sizes.
Most minnie ships I ever see just spew the autocannons at me until I explode.
Yeah, because it's the only way to fit any Minnie ship. :p
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 05:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Para Bela I'm a new Minmatar pilot (playing EVE for three weeks now) and do have a little question: I rarely if ever see artillery proposed for PvP fittings for example for the Rupture. What's the reason for this? Is it because it's too difficult to stop an enemy from closing in?
Artillery is beset with a host of problems and very few bonuses. On the one hand you have a relatively high alpha strike capability, on the other hand you have fairly low DPS, terrible tracking and pitiful clip sizes.
Most minnie ships I ever see just spew the autocannons at me until I explode.
Seconded. Why fit arties when autocannons feel so GOOOOOOOD.
And yeah, I put auto's on my muninn. OH NOES!
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 08:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tony Allizzar Edited by: Tony Allizzar on 13/04/2008 02:52:29
Originally by: Msobe On the other hand, both shield tanking and missile skills will be useful in flying minmatar ships, but go largely to waste flying gallente ships.
Good point, though u are gonna have to armour tank on ships like the rupture, typhoon and to some point the tempest if ur using auto cannons. Duel large reppers for the win Mini ships are VERY skill insensive, but are very rewarding in the long run. There is gonna be pros an cons however u look at it, but hey... thats just eve
On the other hand, once you've skilled up for minmatar shps, you can then spec for Caldari and Gallante pretty much for the price of the ship skills and hybrid gunnery. Everything else is done.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Zorai Miraden
Gallente East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.04.16 08:35:00 -
[30]
Personally after hearing what the Typhoon could and playing with EFT for a bit I decided to imediatly change to a Typhoon for my PVE ship. Previously I used the Dominix. I had already trained Minmatar to a good level so the amount of training I needed was lower. Recruitment Thread EKT Website |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |