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John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
What is CCP's vision of Supercaps in the future? If I understand the statement of CCP Soundwave correctly https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=72743&p=2 CCP intends to nerf titans' tracking into oblivion so that Supercaps are only usefull for structure shooting, bridging and against capitals.
Here is the problem:
- Dreads can shoot structure for less money - Capitals are extremly rarely used in fleet fights against subcaps since dreads can't kill BSs and Triage Carriers can't be remote repped so that no dreads or supercaps are needed to break their tank. There is no point to risk supercaps to kill a couple of carriers. Neither makes it much sense to risk your supercaps to hotdrop some dreads that try to siege something. A fleet of 100 subcaps can easily do it as well.
Consequence:
- Supercaps will simply become useless. - Many people who have invested a lot of money and skillpoints will be pissed - Fleet fights will become even bigger and laggy, even with TiDi - Null space will become even more all about numbers which is simply stupid. With TiDi even the worst Logi wing can safe everyone as long as he knows where the broadcast button is. With TiDi people can reship infinitely since they have enough time to travel back.
A by far better solution for the problem would be to limit the mobility/ power projection of supercapitals. This will make them easier killable and less usefull in conflicts, but still something that can influence the outcome of a battle if they arrive in time (which is something a 60b ship should be able to do). |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Triage carriers are useless?!?!?! - Pretty sure RnK would beg to differ, and normal carriers are pretty damm handy as well.
Also F&I is that way -----------> (since y'know supers are a feature and you are discussing an idea about them) Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Supers as an ISK sink was a nice idea. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Triage carriers are useless?!?!?! - Pretty sure RnK would beg to differ, and normal carriers are pretty damm handy as well.
Also F&I is that way -----------> (since y'know supers are a feature and you are discussing an idea about them) RnK? We are not talking about small- to medscale fights and supercaps would be useless is such fights as well.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1893
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
The goal is simply to force superfleets to fly with support and stop them from being effective weapons against subcap fleets. The first round of changes didn't achieve this, so they're going to get changed and changed and changed again until that goal is finally reached. I agree with this goal, but I'm less convinced they'll achieve it with just a tracking nerf to titans or that's the best solution to the issue.
Your mobility solution doesn't address the problems in any way though and won't achieve that goal. It will turn them to more of a defensive tool. It just means, that more often than not you can defend with them backing you up, but you'll have to attack against them without your own to even up the playing field. So it's not a solution and just retains the current problem, while shifting the game toward favoring defensive strategies. Overall I'd say it makes the situation even worse than it already is.
Your removal solution is stupid and not worth serious consideration.
As for the consequenses:
-Supercaps won't become useless, they will just not be very good at killing subcaps. - Many people will be pissed, but so what? Nerfs happen and your money spent or skillpoints invested don't matter at all in the decision to nerf something. The number of players affected is also very small compared to pretty much every other nerf ever done in the game and the change makes for a better overall game, meaning many more people welcome the changes. -Lag is no reason to keep gamebreaking ships or features in their current state. -The pure numbers game doesn't always favor the old entrenched alliances, but the supercap numbers game does. I'd rather play a game where a swarm of newbies can shake up the map over the current game.
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John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
-Supercaps won't become useless, they will just not be very good at killing subcaps.
Would you please explain this :D What will they be usefull for? Structure shooting and bridging? Didn't I say exactly that? :D
Quote: -The pure numbers game doesn't always favor the old entrenched alliances, but the supercap numbers game does. I'd rather play a game where a swarm of newbies can shake up the map over the current game.
How that? White Noise probably still has a shitload of supercaps and still they are losing to goons due to fail cascade. Raiden on the other hand is rather new in the region but has huge problems to defend themselve against goons without supercaps. In order to gather a huge number of players you will have to give them something in return. Entrenched alliances can give them sanctums, new alliances can't do that.
Your arguments do not make sense when you look at the empirical facts. |
Angel HUN
Spricer Raiden.
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
While its easy to document when a titan hits a target and blaps it (killmails) you don't see how often they miss (A LOT).
(Credit to Leboe from FHC) |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
571
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Most people in EVE use word 'useless' as a bashful euphemism for 'no longer overpowered'.
I, for one, don't see how making supers rely on proper support and screening can be considered as a nerf. It's a boost, as it clearly results in making them much more interesting in terms of gameplay.
Also, sure, they are to be easily killable and vulnerable. That's the whole point. Extra power should always result in extra vulnerability. This principle works just fine for battleships and dreads. The same should be applied to carriers and supers, while atm it's not. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Angel HUN
Spricer Raiden.
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
You cannot field supers without support... ALREADY...
Fon Revedhort wrote:Most people in EVE use word 'useless' as a bashful euphemism for 'no longer overpowered'.
I, for one, don't see how making supers rely on proper support and screening can be considered as a nerf. It's a boost, as it clearly results in making them much more interesting in terms of gameplay.
Also, sure, they are to be easily killable and vulnerable. That's the whole point. Extra power should always result in extra vulnerability. This principle works just fine for battleships and dreads. The same should be applied to carriers and supers, while atm it's not.
This is the current state of Super use. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
571
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Btw, when are they removing that pesky EW immunity? Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
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Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Angel HUN wrote:You cannot field supers without support... ALREADY...
hahahaha like you did against test every time during the Branch campaign.
outstanding |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Whats the role of a titan?
Well if you follow the CCP personality test its the ship Empire Bulider flys (http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/empire-builder/) which makes it clear that titans are seen more as a strategic tool then a combat vessel.
Noone will argue the usefullness of a titanbridges, which allow you to protect power in a far greater area. Combined with the importance of combat logistics due to tidi, having a titan/a few titans will make every force a lot more effective especially if they are on the offensive (defenders can have jumpbridges).
Then titans offer gigantic gangboosters. A titan 5 Erebus pilot will increase the ehp of his fleets armor tank by 37.5%, a Ragnarok will reduce the sig-radius by 37.5%.
I see ofc that Alliances like Raiden do not need a titan as force mulitpilier, they want it as force provider. But thats not the role this ship has. Sucks to be you. |
Xyrcaryn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: CCP intends to nerf titans' tracking into oblivion so that Supercaps are only usefull for structure shooting, bridging and against capitals.
isn't that the idea how it should be instead of 'supercaps kill everything'? |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Having one ship that can blap everything is simply put, anti-EVE.
also useless and not over powered are not the same thing, and you are correct super caps do need a support fleet, the problem is that currently said support fleet it a fleet of more super caps. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Ziester alt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Angel HUN wrote:You cannot field supers without support... ALREADY...
You can't kill a fleet of 255 supers. It's impossible because the server will not support squishing enough non-supers into a system to even try.
John Maynard Keynes wrote:[quote=Destination SkillQueue]. Entrenched alliances can give them sanctums, new alliances can't do that.
Entrenched alliances can also subsidize supercapital acquisition. New alliances don't pop out of empire with 100s of titans. |
Tore Vest
246
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Learn to play eve.... and.. stop crying.. Every decent pilot knows how to not be hit by a titan A real highsec carebear. |
Aylat
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
In return to nerfing Titans they should make structure immune to sub caps (with the exception of structure in hi sec). |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Learn to play eve.... and.. stop crying.. Every decent pilot knows how to not be hit by a titan Really? So when a lone Titan was popping a fleet of BCs all orbiting at the maximum transversal allowed by their guns (AB not MWD), what exactly would your advice be ('run away' doesn't count). Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Tore Vest
247
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote: Really? So when a lone Titan was popping a fleet of BCs all orbiting at the maximum transversal allowed by their guns (AB not MWD), what exactly would your advice be ('run away' doesn't count).
Those who doing that is safe from beeing hit.... But... There is allways someone that stops....or start to burn directly towards or from the titans... Getting bumped... whatever And when blown up to a dread size with tp... they are toast.
Why do you orbit a buch of supers ? You want to kill them... When supers kills you back.... Buuhuu.... CCP.... titans are killing uuus....
Edit: A lone titan killing a fleet of bc..... bullshit A real highsec carebear. |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
341
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:A fleet of 100 subcaps can easily do it as well.
That's the theory.
The reality is that there are very few alliances capable of regularly fielding 100+ man fleets. So you want to turn EVE into a game of Superpower A vs Superpower B only? How will small alliances take sov? How will small alliances engage in (relatively) small battles, with capitals/supercapitals proving their worth by bringing a decisive advantage over the guy that brought a couple dreadnaughts only - provided they don't in turn get hot-dropped?
John Maynard Keynes wrote:Another solution would be to simply remove them from the game and reimburse the people who own them.
Just because you don't have a shiny toy doesn't mean that everyone else should get theirs taken away. Be creative and figure out a way around the system instead of trying to change the system.
While I agree that at some point something will have to be done because we seem to be gaining supercapitals a lot faster than we are losing them and when everyone is flying around in a Nyx or Titan there will not be much point to EVE. Supercaps were meant to be rare but the devs have underestimated the drive of players to have as many of these magic carrots as they can. However just taking them away from everyone doesn't make for a fun game either. |
|
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote: Really? So when a lone Titan was popping a fleet of BCs all orbiting at the maximum transversal allowed by their guns (AB not MWD), what exactly would your advice be ('run away' doesn't count).
My advice would be stop exaggerating.
If, IF; that really was the case then those must've been shield bc's with sigs almost the size of battleships and pilots that massively suck at manageing their range and transversal and/or huginns grabbing them too. In which scenario nothing in any way broken happened.
[constructive advice; outrange them/pick setups with smaller sigs/ get better at manageing transversal/use neutralizers/increase speed/use capitals against capitals etc etc etc etc etc] |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
83
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
There is no easy answer to this.
Its tank vs dps and right now there is no dps that can break the SC fleet tanking structure except bigger blobs of SC.
Maybe if damage was tracked like killmails it wouldn't be such an obsession to get the killmail. If there was an active participation tracking system rather than just an I-Win method to PvP tracking people would be less bent on getting the glorious killmail.
Track "Ioci engaged 700 unique enemies, repelling them with 2 million dps" in addition to the killmails. Then it isn't about who sucks or doesn't PvP because right now it isn't about 'Who is good' or 'Who participates'. It's about who has intell channels to the biggest blobs. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:While I agree that at some point something will have to be done because we seem to be gaining supercapitals a lot faster than we are losing them and when everyone is flying around in a Nyx or Titan there will not be much point to EVE. Supercaps were meant to be rare but the devs have underestimated the drive of players to have as many of these magic carrots as they can. Yeah, what will happen will be each major alliance having a First Fleet composed of 100 titans or so and 150 Supercarriers or so, and then all the lesser players will join second, third fleet etc with dreadnaught/carriers and whatnot. Probably battlecruisers would be good, as the titans would be able to kill battleships. Dreadnaughts are for adding DPS against enemy titans.
Though probably all you'd do is hotdrop 250 supercaps on some new alliance with only 10 titans, eh.
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1187
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Damnit CCP!
Your doing it wrong!
Ban sub caps from the game! |
baltec1
694
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: How that? White Noise probably still has a shitload of supercaps and still they are losing to goons due to fail cascade. Raiden on the other hand is rather new in the region but has huge problems to defend themselve against goons without supercaps. In order to gather a huge number of players you will have to give them something in return. Entrenched alliances can give them sanctums, new alliances can't do that.
Your arguments do not make sense when you look at the empirical facts.
WN did not put up any kind of fight. The one time they tried the leader "forgot to set his alarm" so they all say there playing with themselves while we burned their empire to the ground.
BOB (3 times), NC (before the cascade) the russians many many times, MC, ASCN, Tri multiple times ect all had the biggest blob in their time and were all beaten. |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
341
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Though probably all you'd do is hotdrop 250 supercaps on some new alliance with only 10 titans, eh.
I think Pandemic Legion's legal team would be all over you if you did that, they have the patent on that I believe |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Though probably all you'd do is hotdrop 250 supercaps on some new alliance with only 10 titans, eh.
I think Pandemic Legion's legal team would be all over you if you did that, they have the patent on that I believe Don't be silly. They haven't hotdropped 10 titans that I've heard of.
Now they've hotdropped frigate roams. And hotdropped titans on welpfleet hurricanes. But they're pretty cautious with their titans, once apparently their blob ran off when charged by a welpfleet. (Possibly because of the danger of being tackled and hotdropped by a ton of dreadnaughts I guess?).
You would probably get to where any real engagement would be trying to bait the enemy titans somewhere so that you can drop a ton of dreadnaughts on them. If successful, your blob will be at a significant advantage to their blob and you can go about bashing POS in relative safety.
baltec1 wrote:BOB (3 times), NC (before the cascade) the russians many many times, MC, ASCN, Tri multiple times ect all had the biggest blob in their time and were all beaten. It isn't good to depend too heavily on a single arm of decision. Though if you have an overpowered arm of decision, you should use it as much as possible while it's overpowered.
It would suck to be an alliance (over)depending heavily on turret titans and they somehow got nerfed just as an angry group of people started throwing dreadnaughts around like they were rifters (in comparison). Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
baltec1
694
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: It isn't good to depend too heavily on a single arm of decision. Though if you have an overpowered arm of decision, you should use it as much as possible while it's overpowered.
It would suck to be an alliance (over)depending heavily on turret titans and they somehow got nerfed just as an angry group of people started throwing dreadnaughts around like they were rifters (in comparison).
Good sir, surely you cant be saying that the forces of the anti blue anti coalition coalition rely too much upon titans and have no other plans! |
ViRUS Pottage
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
The problem isn't the balancing of the ships; it's how available they are. Titans should be able to sit there and plaster a fleet of idiots. The problem is that a group of 2-3 alliance can drop 80 of them. That's when it becomes an issue.
The problem arose when motherships and titans started to show up on the open market. People are becoming too rich in the game, and as such 16-20b is nothing for the average 5 year old playing vet any more. There are single players that are hoarding over 200billion ISK to themselves that they haven't gained from emptying alliance wallets.
The price of supercarriers and titans need to be increased massively. But this can't be done without making people cry about it because those who do have them just made a hell of a lot of money. It's too late to fix the problem now unless some sort of mechanic comes along that limits the number usage of them.
e: So it's either that or just make them totally useless. |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Isk is a perfectly valid balancing benchmarch
We have some guys with over a trillion isk in their wallet in GSF. They should be able to alpha 10 titans at once by pressing a button.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
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Angel Lust
Vikinghall
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
I wonder what Soundwave will do when goons fields 3000 maels... and noone can kill them.... |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sip his coffee and enjoy the fact that he's getting paid to make imaginary spaceships.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Also I'm pretty sure his bosses will enjoy the fact that it takes 45 000$ of subs/plexes a month to run a theoretical 3000 man alphafleet rather than 2250$ for an hypothetical 150-man titan fleet.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
Angel Lust
Vikinghall
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Also I'm pretty sure his bosses will enjoy the fact that it takes 45 000$ of subs/plexes a month to run a theoretical 3000 man alphafleet rather than 2250$ for an hypothetical 150-man titan fleet.
So... Soundwave + gonns = True then.... ?
|
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
465
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 18:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Tore Vest wrote:Learn to play eve.... and.. stop crying.. Every decent pilot knows how to not be hit by a titan Really? So when a lone Titan was popping a fleet of BCs all orbiting at the maximum transversal allowed by their guns (AB not MWD), what exactly would your advice be ('run away' doesn't count).
You target the titans sub-system that has his officer tracking enhancers. Once you offline those the titan will be hard pressed to track anything sub-capital.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 19:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Angel Lust wrote:I wonder what Soundwave will do when goons fields 3000 maels... and noone can kill them.... Don't be silly, we use drakes a lot more now.
It's more like 5 waves of 3000 drakes or something. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 19:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:It isn't good to depend too heavily on a single arm of decision. Though if you have an overpowered arm of decision, you should use it as much as possible while it's overpowered.
It would suck to be an alliance (over)depending heavily on turret titans and they somehow got nerfed just as an angry group of people started throwing dreadnaughts around like they were rifters (in comparison). Good sir, surely you cant be saying that the forces of the anti blue anti coalition coalition rely too much upon titans and have no other plans! Oh ho. Well they have tengufleets, which are very ~elite pvp~ and also provide us with great killmails.
Well surely the fact we only want turret titans nerfed to help us means the democratically elected CSM will definitely stomp the Mittani's well thought out, researched and documented evidence for overpoweredness and subsequent need for nerfs.
Cause we're goons and we always lie.
That said, if dreads are more cost effective now, that can only improve (unless titans actually get buffed, you know). Someday BoB 5.0 (these things take time) won't be so daring to swing their "~elite pvp~ titan blob" in people's faces because a dreadnaught fleet might cut it off. Instead we'll be sieging 200 dreads on a POS and daring them to come save it.
What are they gonna do, nerf dreadnaught tracking even more? Haha .... no wait a sec. Luckily my alt will go for the Phoenix, go go Citadel Cruise Missiles!
Of course people could just make ever more titans, but if we spam dreads the whole problem might be lessened. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 19:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Angel HUN wrote:You cannot field supers without support... ALREADY... Fon Revedhort wrote:Most people in EVE use word 'useless' as a bashful euphemism for 'no longer overpowered'.
I, for one, don't see how making supers rely on proper support and screening can be considered as a nerf. It's a boost, as it clearly results in making them much more interesting in terms of gameplay.
Also, sure, they are to be easily killable and vulnerable. That's the whole point. Extra power should always result in extra vulnerability. This principle works just fine for battleships and dreads. The same should be applied to carriers and supers, while atm it's not. This is the current state of Super use.
The problem becomes when you think "35 more titans" is what anyone means by "support"
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 19:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Feligast wrote:The problem becomes when you think "35 more titans" is what anyone means by "support" Well, I would imagine support would be supercarriers with fighters?
Uh, what am I saying, titans are like 4x more expensive than supercarriers they should be far better because their cost balances them. Silly goon me ! Titans should get big rep bonuses as well as be able to use remote reps and fighters. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Feligast wrote:The problem becomes when you think "35 more titans" is what anyone means by "support" Well, I would imagine support would be supercarriers with fighters? Uh, what am I saying, titans are like 4x more expensive than supercarriers they should be far better because their cost balances them. Silly goon me ! Titans should get big rep bonuses as well as be able to use remote reps and fighters.
They should also be dockable and automatically get integrated armor reps because owners paid a lot of botted isk for them and it's not fair to ever nerf them :ohdear: |
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1656
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ioci wrote:There is no easy answer to this.
Sure there is but CCP doesn't have the will to do it. Supercarriers and Titans should be removed from the game because they are impossible to balance. Dreads and Carriers are easy to balance and can serve as "end-game" ships for people who feel the need to fly bigger ships.
They would lose a couple hundred players but it would be less painful in the long run for the health of the future of the game.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Kern Walzky
x13 Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :) |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :)
bawwww you mean you cant drop 40 avatars on a 200 man TEST fleet bawwwwww poor babbi |
Kern Walzky
x13 Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Razzor Death wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :) bawwww you mean you cant drop 40 avatars on a 200 man TEST fleet bawwwwww poor babbi
No, but 100 subs and 20-40 titans & supercarriers vs 200-300 of your drakes...... start coming in other then mwd shield extended drakes m8t, big as houses :) |
baltec1
696
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :)
You dont want to make ships useless yet you defend a ship that makes everything else useless? |
Kern Walzky
x13 Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :) You dont want to make ships useless yet you defend a ship that makes everything else useless?
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what.. |
baltec1
696
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 20:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die.
Sounds like a fun game. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:They would lose a couple hundred players but it would be less painful in the long run for the health of the future of the game. THey might lose BoB, and having an ~elite pvp~ contingent is vital to the health of any internet spaceships game. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Kern Walzky
x13 Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die. Sounds like a fun game.
Get your dread m8t capitals is the counter m8t.
i truely hope you have a dream in flying bigger more expensive in the future... you do know if drakes win they are next in ccp's nerf. :)
so i want CCP to look into not making ships useless, but look at the bigger picture.
|
baltec1
697
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die. Sounds like a fun game. Get your dread m8t capitals is the counter m8t. i truely hope you have a dream in flying bigger more expensive in the future... you do know if drakes win they are next in ccp's nerf. :) so i want CCP to look into not making ships useless, but look at the bigger picture.
I am. Have you noticed the lack of new alliances in 0.0? And I dont mean one of the old ones under a new name I mean like Test when they were new.
People cannot make any inroads into 0.0 in the current situation because fights are unwinnable. There are no tactics or fleet comps to counter titans for them. The smaller 0.0 alliances are also suffering because again, no counter available for them. The only power in all of EVE that could field enough dreads to make the difference is the CFC and even then the few hundred dreads would not be expected to survive the fight.
We are lucky in that we can come up with a counter, be it dreadswarm or just building more titans but for the vast bulk of EVE, they're ******. |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The smaller 0.0 alliances are also suffering because again, no counter available for them. The only power in all of EVE that could field enough dreads to make the difference is the CFC and even then the few hundred dreads would not be expected to survive the fight.
We are lucky in that we can come up with a counter, be it dreadswarm or just building more titans but for the vast bulk of EVE, they're ******. Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is.. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
baltec1
703
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is..
I'm sure we could talk test into it |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is..
I'm sure we could talk test into it I'd give them major "props" if they were indeed to hotdrop 100 dreads into a Raiden. titan blob
I'd also hope the rest of the CFC wouldn't be easily outdone like that. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
935
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is..
I'm sure we could talk test into it
I was told someone was giving out cake in here.
Is tha- oh, is that for me? Only 2b! OKAY! A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grey Azorria
Viziam Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
The Economist wrote:Grey Azorria wrote: Really? So when a lone Titan was popping a fleet of BCs all orbiting at the maximum transversal allowed by their guns (AB not MWD), what exactly would your advice be ('run away' doesn't count).
My advice would be stop exaggerating. If, IF; that really was the case then those must've been shield bc's with sigs almost the size of battleships and pilots that massively suck at manageing their range and transversal and/or huginns grabbing them too. In which scenario nothing in any way broken happened. [constructive advice; outrange them/pick setups with smaller sigs/ get better at manageing transversal/use neutralizers/increase speed/use capitals against capitals etc etc etc etc etc] Not exaggerating, no huggins either (possibly sucky pilots though ); It was an RvB teir3 BC roam, most of us were in 'nados or oracles, and we chanced upon a lone Titan that we think had had just bridged a fleet somewhere else. Since we were in it for the lols (and the FC just wanted to be able to say 'Primary is Erebus') we engaged, hictors got points, and we all started orbiting, expecting it to either be brick tanked or for us to be on the wrong end of one helluva hotdrop, neither happened, instead the titan started dropping like a stone, we got it down to 1/3 armour in around 10-15 mins, unfortunatly by that time we had lost all but one hictor and most of our ships. Then the slightly disapointing hotdrop appeared (one Avatar, 3 MOMs and 7 carriers) to finish us off.
Anyway, we assumed the thing pretty much only had officer tracking mods on it (judging by how fast its tank melted), and had a laugh with the pilots in local about how we caught them with their pants down. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
935
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 21:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Not exaggerating, no huggins either (possibly sucky pilots though ); It was an RvB teir3 BC roam, most of us were in 'nados or oracles, and we chanced upon a lone Titan that we think had had just bridged a fleet somewhere else. Since we were in it for the lols (and the FC just wanted to be able to say 'Primary is Erebus') we engaged, hictors got points, and we all started orbiting, expecting it to either be brick tanked or for us to be on the wrong end of one helluva hotdrop, neither happened, instead the titan started dropping like a stone, we got it down to 1/3 armour in around 10-15 mins, unfortunatly by that time we had lost all but one hictor and most of our ships. Then the slightly disapointing hotdrop appeared (one Avatar, 3 MOMs and 7 carriers) to finish us off. Anyway, we assumed the thing pretty much only had officer tracking mods on it (judging by how fast its tank melted), and had a laugh with the pilots in local about how we caught them with their pants down.
Shhh, you're damaging their narrative of "lol its only goons complaining because they're losing fights, titans are fine!". A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Glarealot
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 22:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
At this point, Supercaps are the new battleships: http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 22:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
You do realise that for a titan to kill a subcap that ship has to be webbed down a lot, right? The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
baltec1
703
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 22:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Headerman wrote:You do realise that for a titan to kill a subcap that ship has to be webbed down a lot, right?
Wrong. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
938
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 22:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Headerman wrote:You do realise that for a titan to kill a subcap that ship has to be webbed down a lot, right?
So hard to bring a few Huginns, huh? Its broken. I'd tell you ty try to look past your obvious bias but you're headerman, so I won't waste my time. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
|
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 22:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Too bad MM didnt use a similar fleet to defend their space. Maybe they shouldn't have sold/RMT'd it all away hey :) The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
938
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 23:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Too bad MM didnt use a similar fleet to defend their space. Maybe they shouldn't have sold/RMT'd it all away hey :)
How can you not see how big an issue supercap balancing and proliferation is? Seriously.
Are you intentionally ignoring it because you benefit from it, or are you just that dumb? A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 23:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Headerman wrote:Too bad MM didnt use a similar fleet to defend their space. Maybe they shouldn't have sold/RMT'd it all away hey :) How can you not see how big an issue supercap balancing and proliferation is? Seriously. Are you intentionally ignoring it because you benefit from it, or are you just that dumb? Does it matter? Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
938
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 23:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote: How can you not see how big an issue supercap balancing and proliferation is? Seriously.
Are you intentionally ignoring it because you benefit from it, or are you just that dumb?
Does it matter?
meh. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grey Azorria
Viziam Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 23:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Headerman wrote:You do realise that for a titan to kill a subcap that ship has to be webbed down a lot, right? O RLY?
Erebus vs Tornado
Erebus vs Hurricane
Erebus vs Hurricane - Round II (Lulz at friendly fire)
(The battle report is very broken, we lost a lot more BCs, and there were a few more PL caps) Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
175
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 23:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
I don't even bother any post from an NPC corp that mentions the word "supercap".
You avoid bad trolls and terrible theory crafters alike! Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Grey Azorria
Viziam Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 00:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:I don't even bother any post from an NPC corp that mentions the word "supercap".
You avoid bad trolls and terrible theory crafters alike! Char transfer. Don't really have much choice Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 14:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die. Sounds like a fun game. Get your dread m8t capitals is the counter m8t. i truely hope you have a dream in flying bigger more expensive in the future... you do know if drakes win they are next in ccp's nerf. :) so i want CCP to look into not making ships useless, but look at the bigger picture. I am. Have you noticed the lack of new alliances in 0.0? And I dont mean one of the old ones under a new name I mean like Test when they were new. People cannot make any inroads into 0.0 in the current situation because fights are unwinnable. There are no tactics or fleet comps to counter titans for them. The smaller 0.0 alliances are also suffering because again, no counter available for them. The only power in all of EVE that could field enough dreads to make the difference is the CFC and even then the few hundred dreads would not be expected to survive the fight. We are lucky in that we can come up with a counter, be it dreadswarm or just building more titans but for the vast bulk of EVE, they're ******.
How is CFC subcap blob different from that? So you are saying that Supers are the only reason why small alliances can't take space? Do you really think that a small alliance could take a part of CFC space if CFC wouldn't use any Supercaps? They coldn't due to lack of numbers! So how does making supercaps useless solve this problem?
Why are huge entities like CFC or Team Tech able to gather gigantic fleets for every important fight? Here are the answers: - Mobility --> every ship is easily bridgeable within minutes within sov space - Timers --> even if a small alliance manages to RF a system --> the defender has more then enough time bring 3 fleets - Lack of destructable or lootable structures --> You cant destroy much without a timer - Guerillia Tactics don't work in eve in sov fights because with JBs and Titanbridges/Jumpdrives everything is in range in eve, especially with TiDi.
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
239
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way. I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
752
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: - Many people who have invested a lot of money and skillpoints will be pissed
If you invest money into getting a titan, then you deserve to have them nerfed.
If you have enough SPs to fly a titan, then you'll find it easy to get the skills to fly other stuff effectively too. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
|
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way. No, they shouldn't. But they do need worked on.
CCP could do things such as:
- Make it easier for super caps to kill each other, ie. increase doomsday and FB effectiveness against other supers.
- a. Nerf Titan tracking so that they cant hit faster battleships (but can still hit something like a triple plated Abaddon).
- b. Leave Titan tracking as it is, but make it so that Titans either can't refit in space (introduce a limited form of super cap docking), can't refit from MOMs, or suffer some form of penalty when doing so, meaning that if a Titan pilot fields a tracking death machine at the expense of tank, can't instantly refit to a massive brick tank once they become primary.
- Introduce new capital ships such as a capital EWar ship, capital dictor, capital version of the teir3 BCs (lots of big guns, on a fast, fragile frame), or some other ships that increase the tactical elements of capital warfare.
- Introduce a spool up time on jump drives and/or portals, meaning that you can't move a massive fleet of death across the entire cluster in just a couple of minutes.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
413
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 16:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way.
Supercap proliferation is a obvious problem in the 0.0 power game today, but only because CCP has done a poor job designing the tools and mechanics for a proper capital battlefield. The CFC block will argue that the ONLY solution to this problem is to nerf supercaps into oblivion, conveniently ignoring to mention that there are several entities currently opposing the CFC that build their capabilities around comparatively smaller number of players piloting these beasts and have invested trillions over the last years doing so. They claim to speak about game design, but are merely badly disguised politicians.
The unstoppable titan blob is a problem that needs to be addressed. The way the CFC block prefers to do it is however not the solution. CCP needs to build on the game, not detract from it. Reducing titans to capital killers only breaks with how the rest of the game works and it will not make it any easier for newer alliances to establish a foothold in nullsec. But it WILL nerf the entities currently opposing the CFC in nullsec, which of course is their real agenda.
In short, new relatively cheap capabilities that will enable poorer entities to pose a credible threat to supercaps are needed. The dread is not effective enough. New soft-kill capabilities (neutralize instead of kill) are needed as well (the CSMs EAF idea is however laughable GÇô a frigate should not take out a titan). Design must aim for solutions where supercap only blobs will find themselves at a severe disadvantage when opposing a true combined arms opposing fleet, forcing them to adopt similar tactics to prevail.
CCP has grappled with a badly designed capital battlefield for ages. With more and more players getting experienced enough GÇô and rich enough GÇô to get into them, CCP need to clean up their act and design a proper capital battlefield for the future. Constricting the game to sub caps only might have been an option in 2005. It is not an option in 2012.
|
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 17:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Post with your main please.
My main is banned, so I have an excuse. |
sakurako
The Circle G00DFELLAS
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
ohh great this topic again.
|
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :)
Time, isk skill and risk?
And how many of the current supercaps out there have been gained through legitimate means?
I'd take a guess that many of the supercaps were acquired with illegally gotten isk, at no risk and it takes no skill to launch a 250 supercap blob and nothing can combat that.
Best thing is remove supercaps, refund the sp's to players and give them cookie. It will only affect a couple of thousand people at most, probably allot less.
|
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
Double post. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
416
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way. Supercap proliferation is a obvious problem in the 0.0 power game today, but only because CCP has done a poor job designing the tools and mechanics for a proper capital battlefield. The CFC block will argue that the ONLY solution to this problem is to nerf supercaps into oblivion, conveniently ignoring to mention that there are several entities currently opposing the CFC that build their capabilities around comparatively smaller number of players piloting these beasts and have invested trillions over the last years doing so. They claim to speak about game design, but are merely badly disguised politicians. The unstoppable titan blob is a problem that needs to be addressed. The way the CFC block prefers to do it is however not the solution. CCP needs to build on the game, not detract from it. Reducing titans to capital killers only breaks with how the rest of the game works and it will not make it any easier for newer alliances to establish a foothold in nullsec. But it WILL nerf the entities currently opposing the CFC in nullsec, which of course is their real agenda. In short, new relatively cheap capabilities that will enable poorer entities to pose a credible threat to supercaps are needed. The dread is not effective enough. New soft-kill capabilities (neutralize instead of kill) are needed as well (the CSMs EAF idea is however laughable GÇô a frigate should not take out a titan). Design must aim for solutions where supercap only blobs will find themselves at a severe disadvantage when opposing a true combined arms opposing fleet, forcing them to adopt similar tactics to prevail. CCP has grappled with a badly designed capital battlefield for ages. With more and more players getting experienced enough GÇô and rich enough GÇô to get into them, CCP need to clean up their act and design a proper capital battlefield for the future. Constricting the game to sub caps only might have been an option in 2005. It is not an option in 2012.
While I don't agree with everything said, this is largely the truth behind the CFC's campaign against supers.
Other lies in this thread include:
A MWDing BC fleet engages a single fully tracking fit titan, marvels at how fast its dying to its BC fleet, but now complains about how easily they died while MWDing around the titan (video available, source, RVB).
Titans can refit in space yets, off other cap ships, however, what many of you fail to realize is that over a certain number, you can't refit, you get an error message, Too many ships in range to use the fitting service of 'x'.
One person says they want faster BS to be immune but slower 'triple plated abbadons' to get hit. Sorry, thats pretty much the exact opposite of game mechanics. The slower abbadon has a lower sig, the faster BS would be under MWD power, otherwise most BS are near the same speed. A MWD balloons a ships sig thus making it incredibly easy to miss.
One other guy said if ever titan pilot quit, they'd lose a few hundred subs.....well, we'd need a CCP metric on that, but lets say we take an example, not saying this person would actually quit, but lets take my buddy JEFFRAIDER as an example:
JEFF has 30 accounts. No thats not an exaggeration he literally has 30 accounts. Most of PL have 3-5 accounts, and thats just us. Most Titan pilots have 3-5 accounts just for cynos. Theres over 1000 Titans in EVE at this point (building off numbers released by CCP 2 weeks ago), so you'd be looking at more like 3000 accounts minimum, if ever one were to quit.
One man said Titans are logistical ships, meant for moving ships and providing bonuses, but the original design, and the description of each ship plainly states that they are meant for mass devastation and carnage.
People keep saying that there is no counter to a super fleet besides another super fleet, this is also a lie, dreads are an insurable counter that cost pennies after the loss should they die, supers give no insurance.
In the end, if supers are made useless against sub caps, then subcaps shouldn't be able to hurt supers at all, and to make sure they retain a role, sub caps should no longer be able to harm IHUBS, POS Main tower (defaning a pos or jammer is still ok), SBU's or Stations.
This is the realm of fair that the CFC is pushing for, and if all of that were to happne I'd be totally fine with a huge titan nerf, because at least then they'd still have something to shoot at when the CFC/AAA are finally forced to field supers to achieve a goal instead of trying to clog the guns of their enemies by spamming 1000 drakes at a fight.
|
Lord Wiggin
Phantom Squad Nulli Secunda
24
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 19:20:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way.
Only by whiny children that want easy mode..... |
Beekeeper Bob
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 19:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
What they did: Broke Supercaps for use by smaller alliances/corps.
What they should have done.
Create separate drone and fighter bays, reduce drone bay to some reasonable size. Leave tank nerf intact. Nerf jumprange, cut it in half. Add a cool down period to Supers Jump drive. 3+ hours
They can no longer be used to rampage all over the map, they become defensive weapons only. Still a proliferation problem, but that problem is directly connected to the Isk faucet that is tech. And since only the biggest Alliances can hold tech for any length of time, the problem is magnifed. Until CCP fixes that isk faucet, and perhaps tries to distribute some of that value among all moons, nothing will really change.....
"Bees are not really dangerous, it's your fear of them that's dangerous"
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
416
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 19:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Still a proliferation problem, but that problem is directly connected to the Isk faucet that is tech. And since only the biggest Alliances can hold tech for any length of time, the problem is magnifed. Until CCP fixes that isk faucet, and perhaps tries to distribute some of that value among all moons, nothing will really change.....
PL holds a fairly large number of tech moons, yet we're nowhere near the biggest alliance, and though a few of us may be adding Supers with Tech, thats not the main source of the average member buying a super.
Though i do agree Tech is a problem (sort of) in that its highly concentrated in one area of the map, the Moons are largely the number one fight creator in the game right now, much more so than system timers, since there is only one timer, and its worth so much.
If you remove that, you remove the fight generator, and 0.0 becomes more stale.
On the other hand, we as an alliance subsidize supers (well for the 9 dudes we have left with no super/titan), but the bulk of the isk they accumulate comes directly from Incursions.
A proper incursion group running incursions can drum up enough isk to buy a super in the cycle of a single incursions spawn and despawn.
That, is where your current proliferation is springing from, incursions have added so much isk to the game that literally anybody who wants a super can easily go out and buy one.
|
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Beekeeper Bob
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 20:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:Still a proliferation problem, but that problem is directly connected to the Isk faucet that is tech. And since only the biggest Alliances can hold tech for any length of time, the problem is magnifed. Until CCP fixes that isk faucet, and perhaps tries to distribute some of that value among all moons, nothing will really change..... PL holds a fairly large number of tech moons, yet we're nowhere near the biggest alliance, and though a few of us may be adding Supers with Tech, thats not the main source of the average member buying a super. Though i do agree Tech is a problem (sort of) in that its highly concentrated in one area of the map, the Moons are largely the number one fight creator in the game right now, much more so than system timers, since there is only one timer, and its worth so much. If you remove that, you remove the fight generator, and 0.0 becomes more stale. On the other hand, we as an alliance subsidize supers (well for the 9 dudes we have left with no super/titan), but the bulk of the isk they accumulate comes directly from Incursions. A proper incursion group running incursions can drum up enough isk to buy a super in the cycle of a single incursions spawn and despawn. That, is where your current proliferation is springing from, incursions have added so much isk to the game that literally anybody who wants a super can easily go out and buy one.
Perhaps my use of the word biggest was inappropriate, I should have said richest....which you guys do qualify for...
Agreed, Incursions may be out of hand isk wise, but that isk at least goes to the individual players, rather than the Alliances. Many of those people may buy Supers with them, but in their current form, I don't know why anyone would want a Supercarrier unless you happen to join one of the few alliances with the isk/balls to risk them.
The problem now is, you can't just take some of them out of the game, and with all the new nerfs to them most people that do not belong to the Techmongers club either won't log them on, or have orders not to log them on.
So, how do you save the horse after the barn has burned to the ground?
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
422
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 20:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote: but that isk at least goes to the individual players, rather than the Alliances.
Our tech moons go 50/50 between players and the alliance.
Realistically, the only way to 'save the horse after we've burned down the barn" is for CCP to actually listen to the people who use titans instead of the people who only want them gone to make their game easier.
There is a huge group of myths propagated by the CFC and the southern block right now, largely built off of stuff they just made up and have no actual game knowledge to back up, they're just guessing, until 2 weeks ago they didn't even know you couldn't refit if there were too many supers nearby.
An erebus that crashed logged back on and normal game mechanics take effect, and suddenly the southern half of eve is crying exploit because they simply don't understand basic game mechanics.
The CFC wants to kill everything with BS and ignore capital ships completely in EVE, and expects everybody else to want the same thing.
These are the people making the most noise, and with Soundwave being an ex-Goon, and calling the shots, these are the people he's listening to the most, even though its all just stuff they've made up.
In short, nothing you do will save the horse because the guy running the show is simply listening to his old friends instead of dealing in actual game mechanics.
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baltec1
734
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
lets listen to the 300 who fly titans and make everything not a supercap useless in a battle.
Or we can listen to the tens of thousands who dont fly titans and want to have EVE return to a game in which they can matter as much as the 1%. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:lets listen to the 300 who fly titans and make everything not a supercap useless in a battle.
Or we can listen to the tens of thousands who dont fly titans and want to have EVE return to a game in which they can matter as much as the 1%.
I'd rather not listen to any of you tbh. You dont bring anything new to the table anyway. Just a god damn mud slinging contest.
edit: At least Grath is capable of logic argumentation, which is more than can be said about you baltec. |
baltec1
734
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'd rather not listen to any of you tbh. You dont bring anything new to the table anyway. Just a god damn mud slinging contest.
Thankfully CCP is right now working on changes to the tracking of titans so this issue is about to vanish.
Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup? |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?
If you dont know how I think CCP should handle that question by now Baltec, I reccommed you train reading comprehension level 1. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
168
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
You won't balance SuperCaps because you aren't trying to. You can compare this to the Drake Blobs, it's the same thing. The trouble isn't the ship, it's the blob.
I've spent enough time in Super Caps on Test server to know that they are vulnerable, they can die and alot faster than you think. Just not in a blob. So the only thing any "balance" will do is cripple them so people simply don't log them in. |
Angel Lust
Vikinghall
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
baltec1... Please stop posting |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
Skydell wrote:You won't balance SuperCaps because you aren't trying to. You can compare this to the Drake Blobs, it's the same thing. The trouble isn't the ship, it's the blob.
I've spent enough time in Super Caps on Test server to know that they are vulnerable, they can die and alot faster than you think. Just not in a blob. So the only thing any "balance" will do is cripple them so people simply don't log them in.
Fair point indeed. There are ways of "balancing" the blob of course, but that will require som major redesigns of EVEs combat system.
Anyways, the less options and tools a fleet commander has at his disposal, the more it is likeley he will field a homogenous blob of similar ships. The more complex and rock-paper-scissors like the game is, the more likeley it is for him to field a combined arms fleet with fifferent capabilities and different jobs. |
baltec1
735
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?
If you dont know how I think CCP should handle that question by now Baltec, I reccommed you train reading comprehension level 1.
I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
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Tore Vest
258
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:40:00 -
[91] - Quote
I hope EVE survive this.... "balancing" thing that is going on now..... Clearly.... There is people working on things that do not care of the good of this game.... Or.... Are working after false information. A real highsec carebear. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:41:00 -
[92] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.
They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.
But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? . And here? And here?. |
baltec1
735
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:56:00 -
[94] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.
They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.
But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.
You mean the 200+ dreads people would need to make any kind of impact before they got taken out by the DDs + turrets of the titans which were brought about for the task of killing capital ships?
Exactly how many alliances could manage a fleet of welpdreads and the replacement of the inevetable large losses that would be taken?
CCP have said they don't want to see capital ships online. That is what we currently have. |
baltec1
735
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 21:57:00 -
[95] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?.
None of which provide counters for subcaps. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:03:00 -
[96] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?. None of which provide counters for subcaps.
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps. They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible. But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument. if you had a titan in the untacklable era you'd have been the one trying to earnestly argue that people just needed a fleet of neuting bumping battleships as the proper counter and those scrubs wanting to tackle them were just jealous |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:04:00 -
[98] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote: Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
titans are specifically designed to kill caps |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
titans are specifically designed to kill caps
Like a battlecruiser is specifically designed to kill cruisers. A Falcon will still jam it. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:12:00 -
[100] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
titans are specifically designed to kill caps Like a battlecruiser is specifically designed to kill cruisres. But titans are more than that.
Spaceships, with the exception of certain exhumers and shuttles and such, are specifically designed to kill other spaceships.
Obvious point is obvious.
Titans cost so much more. What they are, however, is entirely subjective and thus the topic of the debate.
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
|
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Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
I too, QQ abouth that Megathron blapping my Harpy. |
baltec1
735
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks.
This is good for the game how? |
baltec1
735
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
I too, QQ abouth that Megathron blapping my Harpy.
Its more like my megathron blapping a light drone while its orbiting me. |
Tore Vest
259
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:21:00 -
[104] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks.
This is good for the game how?
After supers are cleared... 99% of the playerbase and shiptypes becoming useless and unable to do anything to goonswarms 3k big blobs.... This is good for the game how ? A real highsec carebear. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:24:00 -
[105] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks. This is good for the game how?
All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan. |
Tore Vest
260
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:25:00 -
[106] - Quote
Its the supers that keeps Goons & co from taking nullsec A real highsec carebear. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks.
This is good for the game how?
After supers are cleared... 99% of the playerbase and shiptypes becoming useless and unable to do anything to goonswarms 3k big blobs.... This is good for the game how ?
There has only ever been one battle involving 3k people and that was the NC vs the Dronelands coalition in the war of the north. The blob has always been in EVE and has a long history or been beaten. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:35:00 -
[108] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks. This is good for the game how? All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans. Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan.
You mean like how a t2 destoryer can stop 100 of those 80 billion isk titans from jumping out?
Electronic attack frigates would be a perfect counter for titans as they can be used by even the small alliances while being able to be countered rather easily. What exactly is so bad about a reletivly new player from playing an important roll in battles? |
Beekeeper Bob
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:40:00 -
[109] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
I too, QQ abouth that Megathron blapping my Harpy. Its more like my megathron blapping a light drone while its orbiting me.
If he sends his light drones after it, seems like it would be a blap to me. And one light drone cannot hold your mega in place while you wait for all the other ships to get there to pop your expensive ass.
I for one don't care to see the sandbox nerfed down to Hello kitty Online due to a campaign by one powerbloc of Eve and thier minions/alts to nerf Supers to the point of uselessness. Could Titans use a bit less tracking? Perhaps, I've lost BS to the Titan blobs, it can be annoying, but the bottom line is, you can field them too.....
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:45:00 -
[110] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: You mean the 200+ dreads people would need to make any kind of impact before they got taken out by the DDs + turrets of the titans which were brought about for the task of killing capital ships?
Exactly how many alliances could manage a fleet of welpdreads and the replacement of the inevetable large losses that would be taken?
How is it my fault that alliances have prepared themselves poorly?
Suddenly we should change the entire game simply because some of you have zero ability to plan long term in a game about long term planning?
baltec1 wrote:CCP have said they don't want to see capital ships online.
Can you show me where they said that?
Retar Aveymone wrote: if you had a titan in the untacklable era you'd have been the one trying to earnestly argue that people just needed a fleet of neuting bumping battleships as the proper counter and those scrubs wanting to tackle them were just jealous
First, titans were never untacklable, it was just very hard to survive the AoE doomsday, second, the more likely outcome would have been that I would have been on the side that made the first Doomsday tanked interdictor (I was on their side, you see, I too was a Goon once for a very short time) because, unlike you, i have the ability to think about the game instead of just mewling about what your friends say is wrong with it.
Darth Gustav wrote:
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
Why not? BS can volley ill prepared logis, cruisers can kill logis, carriers can even kill logis, frigates can, battlecruisers can, why shouldn't titans be able to kill them as well?
Theoretically, every ship in EVE can kill every other ship in EVE, all is as it should be. |
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baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
If he sends his light drones after it, seems like it would be a blap to me. And one light drone cannot hold your mega in place while you wait for all the other ships to get there to pop your expensive ass.
I for one don't care to see the sandbox nerfed down to Hello kitty Online due to a campaign by one powerbloc of Eve and thier minions/alts to nerf Supers to the point of uselessness. Could Titans use a bit less tracking? Perhaps, I've lost BS to the Titan blobs, it can be annoying, but the bottom line is, you can field them too.....
People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns. The sandbox is currently nerfed so that the only counter is more titans which wont happen bacuse one side has more than the other or a dreadblob of such huge numbers than, realisticly only one block can manage and even that is questionable. Meanwhile everyone else is helpless. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
You mean like how a t2 destoryer can stop 100 of those 80 billion isk titans from jumping out?
Yes the T2 destroyer can do this because CCP hasnt really designed a comprehensive combat system embracing all ship classes. Capitals remain add-ons, and super-caps doubly so. Personally i'd like to see the regular interdictor nerfed and only capable of stopping subcaps and regular caps. The HIC or a new capital interdictor should be required to hold supercaps. Mind you, i'd also like to see a nerf of the titan hot dropping capability by introducing a capital cyno generator ship with a spool up timer needed to jump in supercaps in the first place. Its about designing a more comprehensive toolbox and combat system expanding the EVE universe instead of just killing off stuff we dont like (especially when "stuff we dont like" is defining the strategic game) |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:55:00 -
[113] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:56:00 -
[114] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:First, titans were never untacklable, it was just very hard to survive the AoE doomsday, second, the more likely outcome would have been that I would have been on the side that made the first Doomsday tanked interdictor (I was on their side, you see, I too was a Goon once for a very short time) because, unlike you, i have the ability to think about the game instead of just mewling about what your friends say is wrong with it. titans couldn't be tackled by interdictors during the phase of the game that spawned the phrase "neuting bumping battleships" you idiot |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:57:00 -
[115] - Quote
that's what revalations II changed and allowed molly to be pinned down and killed |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror.
A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank? |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
pandemic legion: band of brothers 2012 |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror. A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank? why are you arguing with that rock |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 22:59:00 -
[119] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror. A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank?
at zero transversal? |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:00:00 -
[120] - Quote
ahh i see the rock still hasn't puzzled out how transversal works when fighting a titan blob
imagine that, the rock can't think |
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:01:00 -
[121] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:pandemic legion: band of brothers 2012
Yes. This is exactly what I think it boils down to for you and Goonswarm.
Only this time, T20 is on your side amirite? |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:02:00 -
[122] - Quote
i fully expect to hear grath has married some nutjob he met in his pet alliance any day now |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror. A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank? at zero transversal?
so there we have it.
use a sheild tank? You die
Use an armour tank? you die
Use a MWD to get your tranversal up so you dont die? You die.
Yep, that sounds balanced |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yep, that sounds balanced
Again. Rock, paper, scissors - not I have Drakez, want to keeeel Titanz. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:10:00 -
[125] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, that sounds balanced Again. Rock, paper, scissors - not I have Drakez, want to keeeel Titanz.
Rock beats paper
Rock beats sissors
Rocks fall everyone dies.
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:14:00 -
[126] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, that sounds balanced Again. Rock, paper, scissors - not I have Drakez, want to keeeel Titanz. Rock beats paper Rock beats sissors Rocks fall everyone dies.
Okay. I am going to say this slowly.
You are talking about the present. The present. You see a problem in the present. I am offering you a solution In the (near) future. The future Baltec. This implies a REDESIGN of ships and systems. You are dissing that solution by talking about the present.
DO YOU GET IT? |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:How is it my fault that alliances have prepared themselves poorly?
Suddenly we should change the entire game simply because some of you have zero ability to plan long term in a game about long term planning? There is no way to prepare for, or counter, a super cap blob that is bigger than your own.
Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:CCP have said they don't want to see capital ships online. Can you show me where they said that? I believe CCP actually said they didn't want super caps online.
Grath Telkin wrote: Why not? BS can volley ill prepared logis, cruisers can kill logis, carriers can even kill logis, frigates can, battlecruisers can, why shouldn't titans be able to kill them as well?
They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away.
Grath Telkin wrote: Theoretically, every ship in EVE can kill every other ship in EVE, all is as it should be.
Nope, no matter how well you fit a Vigil it will never break through the base shield regen of a Leviathan (extreme example I know).
But yeah, all is very much not as it should be, someone mentioned rock, paper, scissors earlier. Well when super cap blobs are involved it's rock, paper, thermo-nuclear bomb.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:22:00 -
[128] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:[But yeah, all is very much not as it should be, someone mentioned rock, paper, scissors earlier. Well when super cap blobs are involved it's rock, paper, thermo-nuclear bomb.
Which is why CCP needs to bridge the gap. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Okay. I am going to say this slowly.
You are talking about the present. The present. You see a problem in the present. I am offering you a solution In the (near) future. The future Baltec. This implies a REDESIGN of ships and systems. You are dissing that solution by talking about the present.
DO YOU GET IT?
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online.
Are you still keeping up?
You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:29:00 -
[130] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Okay. I am going to say this slowly.
You are talking about the present. The present. You see a problem in the present. I am offering you a solution In the (near) future. The future Baltec. This implies a REDESIGN of ships and systems. You are dissing that solution by talking about the present.
DO YOU GET IT?
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online. Are you still keeping up? You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
To quote myself (again)
"All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan."
Point out the bits that you are unable to comprehend, and especially how this will put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever" |
|
Tore Vest
261
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:31:00 -
[131] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online.
Are you still keeping up?
You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
The small alliances you are talking about.... Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ? You get this ?
A real highsec carebear. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:33:00 -
[132] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote: titans couldn't be tackled by interdictors during the phase of the game that spawned the phrase "neuting bumping battleships" you idiot
I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore.
Titans have literally always been tacklable.
The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
baltec1 wrote:
Use a MWD to get your tranversal up so you dont die? You die.
This is you showing how little you understand about game mechanics and how to apply them to you in space.
Grey Azorria wrote: There is no way to prepare for, or counter, a super cap blob that is bigger than your own.
This is a lie. Absolute end of discussion untrue. There are ways to both prepare for and counter them.
Grey Azorria wrote: They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away.
I would like to introduce you to the Maelstrom, or really any arty fit ship including the Munin or Tornado, they easily can volley logis that are moving, and do so near constantly. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:35:00 -
[133] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
To quote myself (again)
"All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan."
Point out the bits that you are unable to comprehend, and especially how this will put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Why shouldnt he be able to jam a titan?
Price means nothing, hence why titans are are in such large numbers. You are wanting a ship whicch titans are geared to destroy and will never be available for smaller alliances in enough numbers to matter. EAF are easy to fly, cheap to lose and easy to kill.
You say you want rock paper sissors. Well here it is and in a way that will benefit everyone not just the elite few like your idea. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:36:00 -
[134] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online.
Are you still keeping up?
You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
The small alliances you are talking about.... Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ? You get this ?
Point to the last time goons massed 3k people. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1696
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:37:00 -
[135] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
I would like to introduce you to the Maelstrom, or really any arty fit ship including the Munin or Tornado, they easily can volley logis that are moving, and do so near constantly.
hahahahahahahahahaha
"Battleships and cruisers can hit logis so my invulnerable blob of titans should be able to as well!" The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:37:00 -
[136] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
To quote myself (again)
"All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan."
Point out the bits that you are unable to comprehend, and especially how this will put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Why shouldnt he be able to jam a titan? Price means nothing, hence why titans are are in such large numbers. You are wanting a ship whicch titans are geared to destroy and will never be available for smaller alliances in enough numbers to matter. EAF are easy to fly, cheap to lose and easy to kill. You say you want rock paper sissors. Well here it is and in a way that will benefit everyone not just the elite few like your idea.
Dont evade the question. How will this solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"? |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote: Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ?
While they aren't really 3k man blobs, baltec1 doesn't want to talk about what happens to smaller alliances versus the 500 man southern block fleets or the 1000 man drake fleets the CFC fields.
Its called ignoring a vital part of the argument because it doesn't fit his defense.
At least currently a modertate new sized alliance could focus on running incursions while building a super fleet, that would allow it to breach a 0.0 region and deal with a 1000 man blob in theory, baltec1 doesn't like this idea, he wants numbers to mean everything, and that, in turn, snuffs all new life out of 0.0.
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:39:00 -
[138] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote: titans couldn't be tackled by interdictors during the phase of the game that spawned the phrase "neuting bumping battleships" you idiot
I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore. Titans have literally always been tacklable. The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
This is true. It was supercarriers in lowsec that couldnt be stopped. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:41:00 -
[139] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote: titans couldn't be tackled by interdictors during the phase of the game that spawned the phrase "neuting bumping battleships" you idiot
I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore. Titans have literally always been tacklable. The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more. This is true. It was supercarriers in lowsec that couldnt be stopped.
Shh, don't tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about, the younger goons tend to get all bunged up when that happens.
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:44:00 -
[140] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tore Vest wrote: Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ?
While they aren't really 3k man blobs, baltec1 doesn't want to talk about what happens to smaller alliances versus the 500 man southern block fleets or the 1000 man drake fleets the CFC fields. Its called ignoring a vital part of the argument because it doesn't fit his defense. At least currently a modertate new sized alliance could focus on running incursions while building a super fleet, that would allow it to breach a 0.0 region and deal with a 1000 man blob in theory, baltec1 doesn't like this idea, he wants numbers to mean everything, and that, in turn, snuffs all new life out of 0.0.
The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence.
(Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time) |
|
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Grey Azorria wrote: There is no way to prepare for, or counter, a super cap blob that is bigger than your own.
This is a lie. Absolute end of discussion untrue. There are ways to both prepare for and counter them. Go on then, enlighten me.
Grath Telkin wrote:Grey Azorria wrote: They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away.
I would like to introduce you to the Maelstrom, or really any arty fit ship including the Munin or Tornado, they easily can volley logis that are moving, and do so near constantly. Wow, just wow...
Titan != BS Titan != BC Titan != HAC. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Tore Vest
262
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:51:00 -
[142] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence.
(Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time)
psst: We had supers then... A real highsec carebear. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:52:00 -
[143] - Quote
That might be true, but that was a long time ago, the only thing that toppled most of those empires was age, the driving forces behind those alliances got bored and went AFK, that is not a viable counter to the blob, time should not be the answer to beating an empire, the act of watching it crumble from within.
A new alliance shouldn't be forced to wait in Deklien for Goons to go AFK enough to be beaten, there should be weapons at their disposal to deal with a group that thinks spamming 1000 drakes is the answer to a fight.
Currently, those weapons exist, and they exist with the a counter that is cheaply available to just about any person in the game with the skills to fly one.
2 days in an incursion fleet and you have bought, paid for, and insured a dreadnaught. Gather up 70 of these, and suddenly you have something that will literally insta gib a titan, gather 150, and not only will you kill one titan, you'll kill most on field that aren't smart enough to get the hell out of dodge, any more than that and suddenly you're looking at a **** the likes of which the game has never seen.
All that from 2 days worth of effort, 3 if you wanted to pay for 2 months of game time plexes after you buy a dread.
It doesn't take a rich alliance to make this happen, it just takes an alliance wanting it to happen, and then doing it |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
424
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 23:55:00 -
[144] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Grey Azorria wrote: They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away.
I would like to introduce you to the Maelstrom, or really any arty fit ship including the Munin or Tornado, they easily can volley logis that are moving, and do so near constantly. Wow, just wow... Titan != BS Titan != BC Titan != HAC.
So, ignoring the first part since people have been posting in 3 threads for days about how to 'cheaply' counter supers, I'll address the second part:
You said that battleships shouldn't be able to (and probably cant') [its in your quote] volley a logi thats moving.
I say it can, and provide you with at least 3 ship classes that can.
You then respond by relating all of those in some way to a titan.
The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:00:00 -
[145] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:10:00 -
[146] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence.
(Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time)
psst: We had supers then...
ASCN had a grand total of one titan. The NC when they did the great welp of 6nj used 6 titans.
The current PL super fleet number more than everyone combined back in the days I am talking about. Half of them pre-date titans, hell some of them supercarriers.
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:13:00 -
[147] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:That might be true, but that was a long time ago, the only thing that toppled most of those empires was age, the driving forces behind those alliances got bored and went AFK, that is not a viable counter to the blob, time should not be the answer to beating an empire, the act of watching it crumble from within.
A new alliance shouldn't be forced to wait in Deklien for Goons to go AFK enough to be beaten, there should be weapons at their disposal to deal with a group that thinks spamming 1000 drakes is the answer to a fight.
Currently, those weapons exist, and they exist with the a counter that is cheaply available to just about any person in the game with the skills to fly one.
2 days in an incursion fleet and you have bought, paid for, and insured a dreadnaught. Gather up 70 of these, and suddenly you have something that will literally insta gib a titan, gather 150, and not only will you kill one titan, you'll kill most on field that aren't smart enough to get the hell out of dodge, any more than that and suddenly you're looking at a **** the likes of which the game has never seen.
All that from 2 days worth of effort, 3 if you wanted to pay for 2 months of game time plexes after you buy a dread.
It doesn't take a rich alliance to make this happen, it just takes an alliance wanting it to happen, and then doing it
At least 15 of them will vanish in the first doomsday volly. Then the titans will bring about their turret firepower and tear them apart. The dreads will score one, maby two titan kills before they are obliterated themselves. Two titan losses is nothing for the likes of PL or the CFC.
And I am not talking about when those alliances of old folded, I mean all of the fights they lost in their history. |
Tore Vest
262
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.
You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl....
Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance A real highsec carebear. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:25:00 -
[149] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.
You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:26:00 -
[150] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore.
Titans have literally always been tacklable.
The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
what a suprise grath telkin, one of the least knowledgable people about supercaps on eve-o, does not know what he is talking about:
Quote:Warp bubbles and interdiction spheres now prevent all ships from jumping, including Titans and Motherships. http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2802
i would say "boom headshot" but really it's like shooting a toddler |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:29:00 -
[151] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?
this might be the dumbest supercap post ever we have reached peak grath it's all downhill from here |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:29:00 -
[152] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:That might be true, but that was a long time ago, the only thing that toppled most of those empires was age, the driving forces behind those alliances got bored and went AFK, that is not a viable counter to the blob, time should not be the answer to beating an empire, the act of watching it crumble from within.
A new alliance shouldn't be forced to wait in Deklien for Goons to go AFK enough to be beaten, there should be weapons at their disposal to deal with a group that thinks spamming 1000 drakes is the answer to a fight.
Currently, those weapons exist, and they exist with the a counter that is cheaply available to just about any person in the game with the skills to fly one.
2 days in an incursion fleet and you have bought, paid for, and insured a dreadnaught. Gather up 70 of these, and suddenly you have something that will literally insta gib a titan, gather 150, and not only will you kill one titan, you'll kill most on field that aren't smart enough to get the hell out of dodge, any more than that and suddenly you're looking at a **** the likes of which the game has never seen.
All that from 2 days worth of effort, 3 if you wanted to pay for 2 months of game time plexes after you buy a dread.
It doesn't take a rich alliance to make this happen, it just takes an alliance wanting it to happen, and then doing it At least 15 of them will vanish in the first doomsday volly. Then the titans will bring about their turret firepower and tear them apart. The dreads will score one, maby two titan kills before they are obliterated themselves. Two titan losses is nothing for the likes of PL or the CFC. And I am not talking about when those alliances of old folded, I mean all of the fights they lost in their history.
I think you should look at the numbers, the real actual numbers again. 70 dreads has a hell of a volley, easily killing a tracking fit titan in nearly one volley, 2 finishes it off.
Also exactly 2 tank mods shields a dread from dying to a DD, so to lose 15, you'd need to get hit by 30 DD's fired in the exact right order, you're more likely to lose either A) None since the SOP is to fire DD's randomly at caps or B) 5-10 at most if they were smart enough to double up on targets.
I'm not making any of this up, its actually all in the math, if you wanted to look its there.
Titan balls haven't been countered yet because nobody has actively tried.
EVE has a hard coded habbit of crying nerf first and then later its discovered that people don't need a nerf, just a little forethought.
Examples are, when we first put Ahacs on the map, people were crying that the logis were too strong, that they needed nerfing, later it turned out that Ahacs are actually terrible and easily countered by themselves.
When we rolled out the tengu fleet, the same thing, tengus were fairly strong. Now that everybody and their brother has a Tengu fleet up the counters are beyond obvious.
The same will be said about the titan ball. Right now their only showing up from 3-4 alliances, the other that could field them (AAA) won't, for obvious reasons (they have a lot, but we have more, and ours are probably better at flying the ship in combat than theirs are). Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. As the number of alliances with titan fleets increases, the counters will become more obvious as they are used by other people in the game that already thought of them, and planned for their use.
Our dread fleets, let me show them to you.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:30:00 -
[153] - Quote
an interceptor can mwd out of a bubble why can't a titan do it
a carrier can launch warrior iis why can't a titan do it
a stealth bomber can launch aoe bombs why can't a titan do it
band of brothers 2012: "a titan should be able to do anything any other ship can" |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:31:00 -
[154] - Quote
i also enjoy grath's counter to a titan blob supported by heavy capital-sized reps from a SC fleet is a ship that can't receive remote reps |
Tore Vest
265
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:33:00 -
[155] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.
No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this
A real highsec carebear. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore.
Titans have literally always been tacklable.
The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
what a suprise grath telkin, one of the least knowledgable people about supercaps on eve-o, does not know what he is talking about: Quote:Warp bubbles and interdiction spheres now prevent all ships from jumping, including Titans and Motherships. http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2802i would say "boom headshot" but really it's like shooting a toddler
If you said 'boom headshot', you'd look more ********, that patch was well after Molle's first titan had died, in bubbles.
Unless you're insinuating that Titans and Motherships couldn't be tackled until Heat was released in EVE, and jump bridges were introduced.
Comon Weaselior, tell me thats what you're saying, and you're not just reading your own stupidity into that post that had a note added for clarity. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:36:00 -
[157] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore.
Titans have literally always been tacklable.
The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
what a suprise grath telkin, one of the least knowledgable people about supercaps on eve-o, does not know what he is talking about: Quote:Warp bubbles and interdiction spheres now prevent all ships from jumping, including Titans and Motherships. http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=2802i would say "boom headshot" but really it's like shooting a toddler If you said 'boom headshot', you'd look more ********, that patch was well after Molle's first titan had died, in bubbles. Unless you're insinuating that Titans and Motherships couldn't be tackled until Heat was released in EVE, and jump bridges were introduced. Comon Weaselior, tell me thats what you're saying, and you're not just reading your own stupidity into that post that had a note added for clarity.
ahahahahahaha quoting this for posterity
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:38:00 -
[158] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:
ahahahahahaha quoting this for posterity
I'll take that as a yes, you heard it here first folks, Weaselior says titans couldn't be tackled at all until Heat and Jumpbridges were released in EVE.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:39:00 -
[159] - Quote
grath given that i have already dragged you to the 0wnzone and sodomized you there rather than bait you into more stupid statements i will merely point out that patch is revalations II, a patch that you may have heard came out days before shrike was tackled and killed, and you may want to read those patch notes again before discussing those |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:40:00 -
[160] - Quote
because you've now declared that remote doomsday removal happened, then shrike happened, then later on that patch i linked happened
guess why that timeline is...highly unlikely
i'll give you a hint it can be found in those patch notes |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
FLAWLESS POSTING VICTORY |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:41:00 -
[162] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:because you've now declared that remote doomsday removal happened, then shrike happened, then later on that patch i linked happened
guess why that timeline is...highly unlikely
i'll give you a hint it can be found in those patch notes
You mean these patch notes?
Quote:Adding a new dimension to space combat in EVE, Revelations II brings you Heat: the ability to overload starship modules for a temporary boost in performance, but at the risk of damaging the module. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:43:00 -
[163] - Quote
So I put the question to you again, are you standing by your statement that Titans couldn't be tackled at all until Heat was released? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:43:00 -
[164] - Quote
grath, hit "ctrl-f" in those patch notes, enter "doom", read what you see there, then contemplate how your lifetime of bad posting has lead you to this...doom |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:48:00 -
[165] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.
No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this
Aside from titan blobs you are right. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
425
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:49:00 -
[166] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:because you've now declared that remote doomsday removal happened, then shrike happened, then later on that patch i linked happened
So once upon a time, an alliance called Band Of Brothers was the premiere supercap force in EVE, utilizing something like 3 titans (Shrike, Orange Speicies, Chow Down) to utilize whats called a portal dooms day.
In this, a frigate would fly up, light a cyno, and a titan, safely stored in a POS would lite a DD, and it would come through the cyno and kill everything on the frigates grid.
This was deemed unacceptable (And lets be honest, that was nutty), and so it was nerfed. 1 Week later, the hero frigate uncloaked Shrike as he was trying to hide after DDing a Goon fleet on the gate (I was in that fleet). There is video of him dying, including the hooting of many a wild Goon and a very young me, who had died in the initial assault to the marauding titans.
Later, I would leave KOS and move on to other non crap alliances like Imperial Order and Fatal Alliance, eventually falling in with STK when the patch finally came through that you are linking now.
But please Weaselior, tell me more, about how titans couldn't be tackled before heat?
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:50:00 -
[167] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild. It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy. If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.
How small do you think that minority is Baltac, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints?
And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your retared mind you see that you have no ******* argument. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:51:00 -
[168] - Quote
grath i'm actually feeling bad for you at this point so I'm just going to put this out there rather than giving you the most unsubtle hints possible: if you read those patch notes you will find that was the same patch that nerfed the remote doomsday, making your timeline impossible |
Tore Vest
265
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.
No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this Aside from titan blobs you are right. You can allso say that 200 maels are unbeatable for 50 drakes .. rigth ? A real highsec carebear. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:54:00 -
[170] - Quote
really i gave you every chance possible to slink away
but in the end times, when the book of good posting is opened we will not find the name "grath telkin" written in it, and he shall be cast into the pit of bad posting, where one may hear naught but ordo posts and one may see naught but penif posts |
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
I edited my post after you made your first post, you're still wrong.
EDIT: Don't be a bitter goon weasel, you know some penif posts are pretty damn funny, especially the bites. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So, ignoring the first part since people have been posting in 3 threads for days about how to 'cheaply' counter supers, I'll address the second part:
You said that battleships shouldn't be able to (and probably cant') [its in your quote] volley a logi thats moving.
I say it can, and provide you with at least 3 ship classes that can.
You then respond by relating all of those in some way to a titan.
The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?
The original quote (which you wrote )
Grey Azorria wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?
They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away. So no, I was not talking about subcaps, I was talking about titans.
And I am way to tired right now to explain why your welp-nought fleet won't work. But suffice to say, given the amount of times it has been tried, if it did work, then everyone would use it. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 00:59:00 -
[173] - Quote
grath those are the revalations II patch notes and literally every source you will find states clearly shrike died right after that patch
come now this is just undignified, have some self-respect and go hide like a little girl |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote: But suffice to say, given the amount of times it has been tried, if it did work, then everyone would use it.
Goons tried it once, it worked perfectly, I don't understand what you're talking about. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:00:00 -
[175] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: I think you should look at the numbers, the real actual numbers again. 70 dreads has a hell of a volley, easily killing a tracking fit titan in nearly one volley, 2 finishes it off.
Also exactly 2 tank mods shields a dread from dying to a DD, so to lose 15, you'd need to get hit by 30 DD's fired in the exact right order, you're more likely to lose either A) None since the SOP is to fire DD's randomly at caps or B) 5-10 at most if they were smart enough to double up on targets.
I'm not making any of this up, its actually all in the math, if you wanted to look its there.
Titan balls haven't been countered yet because nobody has actively tried.
EVE has a hard coded habbit of crying nerf first and then later its discovered that people don't need a nerf, just a little forethought.
Examples are, when we first put Ahacs on the map, people were crying that the logis were too strong, that they needed nerfing, later it turned out that Ahacs are actually terrible and easily countered by themselves.
When we rolled out the tengu fleet, the same thing, tengus were fairly strong. Now that everybody and their brother has a Tengu fleet up the counters are beyond obvious.
The same will be said about the titan ball. Right now their only showing up from 3-4 alliances, the other that could field them (AAA) won't, for obvious reasons (they have a lot, but we have more, and ours are probably better at flying the ship in combat than theirs are). Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. As the number of alliances with titan fleets increases, the counters will become more obvious as they are used by other people in the game that already thought of them, and planned for their use.
Our dread fleets, let me show them to you.
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:01:00 -
[176] - Quote
but if you insist on managing to have less dignity than a little girl who ran off and hid then please do link anything whatsoever to support your crazy timewarp theory |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:03:00 -
[177] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:grath those are the revalations II patch notes and literally every source you will find states clearly shrike died right after that patch
Look bro, ask anybody in your alliance, Mynas eve, if titans were ever NOT able to be tackled. Lets try starting there.
Then we can move on to how off the Rev II patch notes are.
Then we can move on to your unhealthy obsession with me.
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild. It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy. If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted. How small do you think that minority is Baltec, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints? And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your simple mind you see that you have no ******* argument.
Perhaps if you read what I type you might see it. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:05:00 -
[179] - Quote
grath im gonna do you a solid and suggest you go ask around your alliance because you're going to find you've massively embarrassed yourself
i've even stopped quoting you so you can go edit out most of these posts when reality sets in and the shame comes crashing down |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:07:00 -
[180] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more. |
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:09:00 -
[181] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild. It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy. If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted. How small do you think that minority is Baltec, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints? And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your simple mind you see that you have no ******* argument. Perhaps if you read what I type you might see it.
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever" |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:11:00 -
[182] - Quote
gonna just link some stuff here to prove my point: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-492169.html (titan + sc nerf in revII)
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Eve_Expansions#Revelations_II (revelations II added all the things grath insists it did not, and nerfed the remote dd)
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Patch ( Bubbles can affect EW immune ships (like Titans and Motherships) remote Titan DDD ability removed)
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:12:00 -
[183] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more.
Hence why this tactic cant work. It is also not a tactic most alliances can use because they simply do not have the cash flow or the numbers for this kind of warfare. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
202
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:12:00 -
[184] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote: You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance
Grath Telkin wrote:Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. Aww man, the secret it is out, we'll mass titans and win whether or not they get nerfed. Your SPAIs, sir, are good at their job.
Still, I'm sure a lot of CFC pilots would love to play Never Log in Titan Alt online, so nerfs are a-ok as well. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:12:00 -
[185] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more. but for a thing that happens every time you use dreads, dreads would be more effective |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:14:00 -
[186] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart?
Or if you use your new capitals blueballs.
This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:16:00 -
[187] - Quote
Quote:[20:07] GrathTelkin- somebody answer a riddle for me [20:08] GrathTelkin- was there ever a time [20:08] GrathTelkin- titans couldn't be tackled [20:08] NeVeH- yes [20:08] NeVeH- and MS [20:08] GrathTelkin- well ****
WEASELIOR WINS, I was wrong, evidently at some point motherships were indeed not tacklable.
In the words of your father on the day of your birth:
Welp, can't win em all.
Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more. but for a thing that happens every time you use dreads, dreads would be more effective
It happens to supers every time they jump in too, we'll let you know when we find a way to make that part of the suck stop. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:17:00 -
[188] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tore Vest wrote: You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance Grath Telkin wrote:Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. Aww man, the secret it is out, we'll mass titans and win whether or not they get nerfed. Your SPAIs, sir, are good at their job. Still, I'm sure a lot of CFC pilots would love to play Never Log in Titan Alt online, so nerfs are a-ok as well.
I wonder if the calls for nerfs will get louder when we drop 200 titans on everything. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
414
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:17:00 -
[189] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart? Or if you use your new capitals blueballs. This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible.
Lol. yeah I see you have decided to design a fail system. In that case, you will of course be right. Personally, I trust CCP to do a better job at it. |
Tore Vest
266
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:18:00 -
[190] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Because the titan blob rips them apart?
Or if you use your new capitals blueballs.
This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible.
Stop that invincible bullshit.... no ship in eve is invincible
A real highsec carebear. |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:21:00 -
[191] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Quote:[20:07] GrathTelkin- somebody answer a riddle for me [20:08] GrathTelkin- was there ever a time [20:08] GrathTelkin- titans couldn't be tackled [20:08] NeVeH- yes [20:08] NeVeH- and MS [20:08] GrathTelkin- well **** WEASELIOR WINS, I was wrong, evidently at some point motherships were indeed not tacklable. In the words of your father on the day of your birth: Welp, can't win em all. this was where the "neuting bumping battleships" quote was from: a ccp dev literally suggested that how you would catch and kill a titan was a fleet of battleships neuting it so it couldn't jump out, bumping it so it couldn't warp out |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
426
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:21:00 -
[192] - Quote
To make Weaselior happier, evidently all of our IRC remembers when they couldn't be tackled except me:
Quote:[20:08] karttoon- Couldn't be bubbled [20:08] karttoon- You could only bump them [20:08] karttoon- Which was easier |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:21:00 -
[193] - Quote
one of the great moments in ccp design history |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:23:00 -
[194] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart? Or if you use your new capitals blueballs. This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible. Lol. yeah I see you have decided to design a fail system. In that case, you will of course be right. Personally, I trust CCP to do a better job at it.
Hence why they are working on titan tracking. Seems they want the rest of the ships in eve to matter. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:25:00 -
[195] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart? Or if you use your new capitals blueballs. This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible. Lol. yeah I see you have decided to design a fail system. In that case, you will of course be right. Personally, I trust CCP to do a better job at it. Hence why they are working on titan tracking. Seems they want the rest of the ships in eve to matter.
Good to have your very own T20, isnt it? |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:31:00 -
[196] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Good to have your very own T20, isnt it?
Its almost as if you are a titan pilot, bitter about losing god mode and having to put some thought into combat. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:35:00 -
[197] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Good to have your very own T20, isnt it?
Its almost as if you are a titan pilot, bitter about losing god mode and having to put some thought into combat.
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:42:00 -
[198] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that.
Well if you put all of your eggs into the FOTM basket you tend to get scrambled by people who go with many different strategies when the nerf arrives. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:48:00 -
[199] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that.
Well if you put all of your eggs into the FOTM basket you tend to get scrambled by people who go with many different strategies when the nerf arrives.
Lol. Dont flatter yourself.
You have ONE strategy. Blobbing. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:50:00 -
[200] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Good to have your very own T20, isnt it?
Its almost as if you are a titan pilot, bitter about losing god mode and having to put some thought into combat. No, as far as I can tell they just have a different way to fix the problem. Which I agree with more. Ewar frigs do need some serious loving, but making them able to affect titans is not the way to do it (doesn't even make sense since really, a frig simply can't generate enough power to disrupt a titans heavily shielded systems). And if you think about it, it doesn't even take that long to get into a cap - so an EWar Cap wouldn't really discriminate against younger players(especialy if they are already on the capital ship road anyway). Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:56:00 -
[201] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Lol. Dont flatter yourself.
You have ONE strategy. Blobbing.
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have. |
Tore Vest
278
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:01:00 -
[202] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have.
Ofc not.... but if you have 2-3 times more than your enemy....
A real highsec carebear. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Lol. Dont flatter yourself.
You have ONE strategy. Blobbing.
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have.
Ofc. But now you are down to tactics. Titans alone never win fights either. Not without a sound tactical employment inclding supporting ships (I am sure you are gonna dispute this point but you will be wrong)
But when it comes to STRATEGIES - you have one card in your deck. |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:05:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have.
Ofc not.... but if you have 2-3 times more than your enemy....
NC outnumbered their enemy 10 to 1 in 6nj and lost. IRC outnumbered ourb little bat corp roam 7 to 1 and while they got us, we killed 4 times as much.
History is littered with blobs getting beaten because they were poorly organised, badly lead and had an abismal fleet comp that their enemy exploited. |
Vaffel Junior
Resilience. Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:11:00 -
[205] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
NC outnumbered their enemy 10 to 1 in 6nj and lost. IRC outnumbered ourb little bat corp roam 7 to 1 and while they got us, we killed 4 times as much.
History is littered with blobs getting beaten because they were poorly organised, badly lead and had an abismal fleet comp that their enemy exploited.
How many of those figths had supers in them ?
|
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:13:00 -
[206] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Ofc. But now you are down to tactics. Titans alone never win fights either. Not without a sound tactical employment inclding supporting ships (I am sure you are gonna dispute this point but you will be wrong)
But when it comes to STRATEGIES - you have one card in your deck.
You mean like Mr Vee bombing the enemy fleet to weaken then the drakes/canes get in close and the alpha maels target key ships to weaken them further. If you can get intel on who the FC is you pick him off to stop their target calling while the blackbirds jam their logistics and the frigates go after their dictors and get point on a fleeting target.
Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars |
baltec1
736
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:15:00 -
[207] - Quote
Vaffel Junior wrote:baltec1 wrote:
NC outnumbered their enemy 10 to 1 in 6nj and lost. IRC outnumbered ourb little bat corp roam 7 to 1 and while they got us, we killed 4 times as much.
History is littered with blobs getting beaten because they were poorly organised, badly lead and had an abismal fleet comp that their enemy exploited.
How many of those figths had supers in them ?
The ones I mentioned? 1.
The rest? very few. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:18:00 -
[208] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars
You keep using this word, but I dont think you understand what it means. |
Tore Vest
278
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:20:00 -
[209] - Quote
I will be sad that day we only see drakes and bombers in a big figth.... but... That day will come.... A real highsec carebear. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:21:00 -
[210] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars You keep using this word, but I dont think you understand what it means. You are talking abouth how to fight and win battles. That is tactics. Not strategies. Strategy vs Tactics Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
|
Tore Vest
279
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:22:00 -
[211] - Quote
When goons get what they want A real highsec carebear. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars You keep using this word, but I dont think you understand what it means. You are talking abouth how to fight and win battles. That is tactics. Not strategies. Strategy vs Tactics
Yeah I didnt introduce operations and the operational level, as it would surely confuse even more |
baltec1
737
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:I will be sad that day we only see drakes and bombers in a big figth.... but... That day will come....
It arrived in 2010 and got upgraded to tungu and bombers last year. |
baltec1
737
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:34:00 -
[214] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars You keep using this word, but I dont think you understand what it means. You are talking abouth how to fight and win battles. That is tactics. Not strategies. Strategy vs Tactics Yeah I wouldnt introduce operations and the operational level, as it would surely confuse even more
When was the last time your alliance blitzkrieged an entire region in 3 weeks? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1697
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:48:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:I will be sad that day we only see drakes and bombers in a big figth.... but... That day will come....
If it's a choice between that and invulnerable supercap blobs I'll take the drakes and bombers any day. Nothing in Eve should be invulnerable.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tore Vest
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:54:00 -
[216] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:
If it's a choice between that and invulnerable supercap blobs I'll take the drakes and bombers any day. Nothing in Eve should be invulnerable.
No ship in eve is invulnrable dude A real highsec carebear. |
Beekeeper Bob
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:56:00 -
[217] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Tore Vest wrote:I will be sad that day we only see drakes and bombers in a big figth.... but... That day will come.... If it's a choice between that and invulnerable supercap blobs I'll take the drakes and bombers any day. Nothing in Eve should be invulnerable.
Once again,nothing in Eve is invulnerable. By your own alliance's admission you certainly have the ISK to counter the Titan blob, so one can only assume you lack the proper reproductive organs to do the job.
Don't feel bad little bee, all little drones are neuter.....
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1697
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:56:00 -
[218] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
If it's a choice between that and invulnerable supercap blobs I'll take the drakes and bombers any day. Nothing in Eve should be invulnerable.
No ship in eve is invulnrable dude
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1697
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:57:00 -
[219] - Quote
Cue Grath running in here yelling about dreads again The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tore Vest
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 02:58:00 -
[220] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8 A real highsec carebear. |
|
baltec1
737
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:00:00 -
[221] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8
yea, by 70 titans. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:01:00 -
[222] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
When was the last time your alliance blitzkrieged an entire region in 3 weeks?
Ah yes. The expected response.
Yes, at the strategic level - as in using different means to achieve political goals - Goonswarm does indeed have shrewd strategists, and has shown so on different occasions. Collapsing you enemy from within, as it were, no doubt thanks to several conveniently placed agents which can read signs and identify targets for subversive activities. At the political-strategic level, Goonswarm has indeed shown skill. But these activities arenGÇÖt really within the realm of military (warfighting) strategy, vital though it has been to bring down both BoB and IT.
As for the "blitzkrieg" (a military strategy) reference: No. You havenGÇÖt really done that - at least to my knowledge. What you HAVE done is exploiting political weakness and internal turmoil to advance rapidly. But Blitzkrieg does not equal rapid advance, even if it may appear so. The term is a German phrase used (these days) mainly to describe campaigns that instead of facing the enemy head-on (direct approach) will attack critical weaknesses while avoiding strengths, collapsing the enemy force like a house of cards (indirect approach). If you want a textbook indirect approach style campaign, you can take a look at PLs campaign against the NC in the opening stages of the DRF/NC war.
Goonswarm is in many ways an excellent tactical level married to very shrewd political strategy - which includes metagaming all the way up to the CSM to get what you want. What you have for a military strategy however, is not top notch in EVE. Not by a longshot. |
Tore Vest
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:03:00 -
[223] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8 yea, by 70 titans. Hey.... you was writing about tactics here earlyer..... Are you shure your 70 titans are only way to kill 50 ? A real highsec carebear. |
Tore Vest
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:05:00 -
[224] - Quote
But... why use your brain.... when you can cry on forums and let your bros nerf them A real highsec carebear. |
baltec1
737
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:07:00 -
[225] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
When was the last time your alliance blitzkrieged an entire region in 3 weeks?
Ah yes. The expected response. Yes, at the strategic level - as in using different means to achieve political goals - Goonswarm does indeed have shrewd strategists, and has shown so on different occasions. Collapsing you enemy from within, as it were, no doubt thanks to several conveniently placed agents which can read signs and identify targets for subversive activities. At the political-strategic level, Goonswarm has indeed shown skill. But these activities arenGÇÖt really within the realm of military (warfighting) strategy, vital though it has been to bring down both BoB and IT. As for the "blitzkrieg" (a military strategy) reference: No. You havenGÇÖt really done that - at least to my knowledge. What you HAVE done is exploiting political weakness and internal turmoil to advance rapidly. But Blitzkrieg does not equal rapid advance, even if it may appear so. The term is a German phrase used (these days) mainly to describe campaigns that instead of facing the enemy head-on (direct approach) attacking weaknesses while avoiding strengths. If you want a textbook indirect approach style campaign, you can take a look at PLs campaign against the NC in the opening stages of the DRF/NC war. Goonswarm is in many ways an excellent tactical level married to very shrewd political strategy - which includes metagaming all the way up to the CSM to get what you want. What you have for a military strategy however, is not top notch in EVE. Not by a longshot.
blitzkrieg = lightning war.
We hit them in strategic spots to cut up their space, stop the supply of ships, trap their capitals, and remove key station services. Key money making towers were then hit and taken down along with ratting stations and we captured two key systems which allowed access to all of their space.
But I suppose this too is not what you are looking for? |
baltec1
737
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:09:00 -
[226] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote: Hey.... you was writing about tactics here earlyer..... Are you shure your 70 titans are only way to kill 50 ?
I have yet to hear anyone come up with something else. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 03:32:00 -
[227] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:blitzkrieg = lightning war.
Thank you, Captain obvious. I am very familiar with the term, what its direct translation from German means, its historical roots in the trenches of the First World War, the German experiments with shock troops in 1918, its different interpretations by German, Soviet, British, French, German and US militaries during and after the Second World War, its renaissance in the US in the 1970s, its pivotal role in developing the original US Air-Land Battle doctrine and its current application in most western armed forces warfighting doctrines as of 2012.
And, I am sorry to say, It is not simply a matter of speed. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
203
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 05:08:00 -
[228] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We hit them in strategic spots to cut up their space, stop the supply of ships, trap their capitals, and remove key station services. Key money making towers were then hit and taken down along with ratting stations and we captured two key systems which allowed access to all of their space.
But I suppose this too is not what you are looking for? Nah goons are bad at eve.
We're about to be kicked out of Dek in just a little bit by the completely balanced
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1699
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 07:40:00 -
[229] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8 yea, by 70 titans. Hey.... you was writing about tactics here earlyer..... Are you shure your 70 titans are only way to kill 50 ?
For the benefit of us dumb goonies why don't you spell out your master plan for beating a massed blob of 50 titans. You don't have to give away specifics (we probably couldn't understand them) but just a general overview of what you think would be effective. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
baltec1
738
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 08:56:00 -
[230] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Nah goons are bad at eve.
We're about to be kicked out of Dek in just a little bit by the completely balanced
Its the 29th, this must be the day it happens |
|
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
90
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 10:08:00 -
[231] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8 yea, by 70 titans. Hey.... you was writing about tactics here earlyer..... Are you shure your 70 titans are only way to kill 50 ? For the benefit of us dumb goonies why don't you spell out your master plan for beating a massed blob of 50 titans. You don't have to give away specifics (we probably couldn't understand them) but just a general overview of what you think would be effective. And welp-noughts do not count. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 10:50:00 -
[232] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Tore Vest wrote: Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ?
While they aren't really 3k man blobs, baltec1 doesn't want to talk about what happens to smaller alliances versus the 500 man southern block fleets or the 1000 man drake fleets the CFC fields. Its called ignoring a vital part of the argument because it doesn't fit his defense. At least currently a modertate new sized alliance could focus on running incursions while building a super fleet, that would allow it to breach a 0.0 region and deal with a 1000 man blob in theory, baltec1 doesn't like this idea, he wants numbers to mean everything, and that, in turn, snuffs all new life out of 0.0. The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence. (Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time) White Noise and NC had a shitload of (unnerfed) supers as well. It didn't safe them... so what exactly is your argument? |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 10:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.
You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this. How can one beat a subcap blob without having another subcap blob? (Hint: Small alliances don't have subcap blobs) |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
242
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 12:28:00 -
[234] - Quote
Lord Wiggin wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Aren't you, oh...about six months late with this, OP?
Supercapitals were a mistake, and should be removed from the game, by the way. Only by whiny children that want easy mode.....
Because rampaging all over the map almost instantly, and then insta-blapping everything on grid is hard is it?
So how's that logoffski fix/nerf worked out for you, bru?
I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
242
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 12:46:00 -
[235] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is..
I'm sure we could talk test into it I was told someone was giving out cake in here. Is tha- oh, is that for me? Only 2b! OKAY!
I can haz pie? I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
baltec1
740
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 13:31:00 -
[236] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Because rampaging all over the map almost instantly, and then insta-blapping everything on grid is hard is it?
So how's that logoffski fix/nerf worked out for you, bru?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12588868
Rather well thank you. |
sakurako
The Circle G00DFELLAS
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:19:00 -
[237] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Because rampaging all over the map almost instantly, and then insta-blapping everything on grid is hard is it?
So how's that logoffski fix/nerf worked out for you, bru?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12588868Rather well thank you.
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys |
baltec1
741
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:22:00 -
[238] - Quote
sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct.
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:31:00 -
[239] - Quote
sakurako wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Because rampaging all over the map almost instantly, and then insta-blapping everything on grid is hard is it?
So how's that logoffski fix/nerf worked out for you, bru?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12588868Rather well thank you. wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win. this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them. to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys because supercarriers were fixed properly so they couldn't blap subcaps and nobody committed titans |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2532
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:31:00 -
[240] - Quote
and the titan was alone, and so dumb it had a spur omega plugged in instead of a slave omega |
|
baltec1
741
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:34:00 -
[241] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:and the titan was alone, and so dumb it had a spur omega plugged in instead of a slave omega
Word has it that it was ratting just before it got called up |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2243
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 14:35:00 -
[242] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:and the titan was alone, and so dumb it had a spur omega plugged in instead of a slave omega
no hardwirings, solo braveman fit - all of this just points to "dumb pilot" rather than "hurr titans are easily killed with subcaps" "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
sakurako
The Circle G00DFELLAS
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 15:56:00 -
[243] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct.
and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing |
Tore Vest
281
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 16:37:00 -
[244] - Quote
fap fap fap fap A real highsec carebear. |
baltec1
742
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 17:05:00 -
[245] - Quote
sakurako wrote:
and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing
Titans are supercaps which need reballancing. |
Thomas Abernathy
Phantom Squad Nulli Secunda
60
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:15:00 -
[246] - Quote
sakurako wrote:baltec1 wrote:sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct. and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing
Lots of supercaps died to subcaps last night, what's the issue?
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:25:00 -
[247] - Quote
Thomas Abernathy wrote:sakurako wrote:baltec1 wrote:sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct. and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing Lots of supercaps died to subcaps last night, what's the issue? Goons can't kill supercaps with subcaps, at least not on their own.
|
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:38:00 -
[248] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:
How can one beat a subcap blob without having another subcap blob? (Hint: Small alliances don't have subcap blobs)
hint: your joe everyman small alliance doesn't have thirty titans |
sakurako
The Circle G00DFELLAS
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:52:00 -
[249] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:Thomas Abernathy wrote:sakurako wrote:baltec1 wrote:sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct. and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing Lots of supercaps died to subcaps last night, what's the issue? Goons can't kill supercaps with subcaps, at least not on their own.
this is the reason for so many whine on the forum goons can't do or think of this blob wins that all they care about |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2246
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:46:00 -
[250] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:Goons can't kill supercaps with subcaps, at least not on their own.
hey uh we actually helped -A- kill a bunch of them
just a friendly reminder "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
242
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:57:00 -
[251] - Quote
Ugh....
Guys?
Guys!
The cesspit known as CAOD I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
405
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:24:00 -
[252] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die. Sounds like a fun game. Get your dread m8t capitals is the counter m8t. i truely hope you have a dream in flying bigger more expensive in the future... you do know if drakes win they are next in ccp's nerf. :) so i want CCP to look into not making ships useless, but look at the bigger picture. I am. Have you noticed the lack of new alliances in 0.0? And I dont mean one of the old ones under a new name I mean like Test when they were new. People cannot make any inroads into 0.0 in the current situation because fights are unwinnable. There are no tactics or fleet comps to counter titans for them. The smaller 0.0 alliances are also suffering because again, no counter available for them. The only power in all of EVE that could field enough dreads to make the difference is the CFC and even then the few hundred dreads would not be expected to survive the fight. We are lucky in that we can come up with a counter, be it dreadswarm or just building more titans but for the vast bulk of EVE, they're ******. How is CFC subcap blob different from that? So you are saying that Supers are the only reason why small alliances can't take space? Do you really think that a small alliance could take a part of CFC space if CFC wouldn't use any Supercaps? They coldn't due to lack of numbers! So how does making supercaps useless solve this problem? Why are huge entities like CFC or Team Tech able to gather gigantic fleets for every important fight? Here are the answers: - Mobility --> every ship is easily bridgeable within minutes within sov space - Timers --> even if a small alliance manages to RF a system --> the defender has more then enough time bring 3 fleets - Lack of destructable or lootable structures --> You cant destroy much without a timer - Guerillia Tactics don't work in eve in sov fights because with JBs and Titanbridges/Jumpdrives everything is in range in eve, especially with TiDi.
Your blue list is bigger than the CFC's.
Goons and TEST being fat just throws off the coalition's available pilots by quite a bit.
Not to mention the counter to a decent battleship gang is easily accomplished by 20m isk hulls and a bomb. There is no similar weapon for supers.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
206
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 02:46:00 -
[253] - Quote
Berke Negri wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:How can one beat a subcap blob without having another subcap blob? (Hint: Small alliances don't have subcap blobs) hint: your joe everyman small alliance doesn't have thirty titans Heh, if you have thirty turret titans you can kick people back to NPC 0.0
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
418
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 06:11:00 -
[254] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that.
Well if you put all of your eggs into the FOTM basket you tend to get scrambled by people who go with many different strategies when the nerf arrives.
This isnt about nerfing individual pilots iwin buttons, its a change that will have a profound impact on the current balance of power in nullsec. And who stands to gain? I'm sure you will tell me "all allliances that doesnt rely heavily on titans" and you will be right. But whoever can field the largest subcap blob will gain the most. And thats you guys. An outright nerf of the tracking titan without any other changes is a move that seems specifically tailored for the Goons. I dont call that balancing. I call it favouritism. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1953
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:54:00 -
[255] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that.
Well if you put all of your eggs into the FOTM basket you tend to get scrambled by people who go with many different strategies when the nerf arrives. This isnt about nerfing individual pilots iwin buttons, its a change that will have a profound impact on the current balance of power in nullsec. And who stands to gain? I'm sure you will tell me "all allliances that doesnt rely heavily on titans" and you will be right. But whoever can field the largest subcap blob will gain the most. And thats you guys. An outright nerf of the tracking titan without any other changes is a move that seems specifically tailored for the Goons. I dont call that balancing. I call it favouritism.
At least they argue the issue on ship balancing grounds, while you seem to suggest ships should be balanced based on political considerations too. They're suggesting ships should be balanced towards each other and the goals CCP has publicly outlined for those ships classes, without taking politics in to consideration. They might benefit from the changes, but ship balance and CCP set shipclass goals are still the reasons behind the changes.
You call that favouritism, while at the same time you're openly suggesting CCP shouldn't balance things just on ship balancing grounds, but that they should make politics a part of ship balancing in order to not disturb the established balance of power and keep the groups you dislike in check. You're directly asking CCP to protect the established interests of certain groups over ones you dislike and you have the gall to call the demanded ship balance changes of your opponents favouritism . |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:13:00 -
[256] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Berke Negri wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:How can one beat a subcap blob without having another subcap blob? (Hint: Small alliances don't have subcap blobs) hint: your joe everyman small alliance doesn't have thirty titans Heh, if you have thirty turret titans you can kick people back to NPC 0.0 like are they supposed to just run incursions until they can purchase one: titan and have someone who has never flown one before and then they can stand up to larger fleets?
that doesn't sound realistic or balanced
really it sounds like it'd be more prudent to just hire existing supercap pilots with the money you make from incursions but welp NCdot and PL have already hired all the free agents |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:20:00 -
[257] - Quote
basically serious post nearly ten years after this game has been out it seems silly that people are still arguing about "blobs" when it is clear that one huge space battles are a big draw to this game and two the so-called anti-blob forces are fielding as many pilots as the so-called blobbers
does anyone really think sov is going to be determined by small gang warfare anymore or in the future because if you do you are living in a dream that hasn't really existed since 2004 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:38:00 -
[258] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:At least they argue the issue on ship balancing grounds. Not really. Individual tracking titans are not unbalanced. What is unbalanced is 50 of them, operating together. Yet, the only solution acceptable to the numerous Goons in these forums (and they are unmistakably of the EXACT same opinion on this issue, which is not a coincidence) is the downright nerfing of the individual ships to a point where they will be useless against sub caps. They do not do this out of general game balance concerns; they do it to further their own strategic in-game interest.
Destination SkillQueue wrote: They're suggesting ships should be balanced towards each other and the goals CCP has publicly outlined for those ships classes, without taking politics in to consideration. They might benefit from the changes, but ship balance and CCP set shipclass goals are still the reasons behind the changes.
Really? Here is what CCP had to say about Titans when they got rid of the old AOE Doomsdays, which obliterated everything on-grid:
"First up is that the current weapon bonuses on Titans will get just a tiny bit of an enhancement so that the turret locators actually might get used. This damage will vary with fittings, just as with any other ship, but will certainly enable a Titan to make its presence felt if the pilot so chooses."
Destination SkillQueue wrote:You call that favouritism, while at the same time you're openly suggesting CCP shouldn't balance things just on ship balancing grounds, but that they should make politics a part of ship balancing in order to not disturb the established balance of power and keep the groups you dislike in check. You're directly asking CCP to protect the established interests of certain groups over ones you dislike and you have the gall to call catering to the demanded ship balance changes of your opponents favouritism . CCP has several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes. |
baltec1
744
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 16:45:00 -
[259] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:07:00 -
[260] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade.
I do find it interesting that you as a Goon seem very certain about the exact nature of the change to come. The EVE community has certainly not been told yet. |
|
baltec1
744
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:12:00 -
[261] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. And most of all, it benefits you.
What wouldnt?
We could easily spam jamming titan capitals or if CCP do nothing, pile it all into building titans and then drop 200 of them on everything.
AT least we fight for what is good for the rest of eve rather than letting hatred for one collection of player blind us. We are demanding our own titan fleet to get nerfed too afterall which makes it easier to attack us in turn. |
baltec1
744
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:13:00 -
[262] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. I do find it interesting that you as a Goon seem very certain about the exact nature of the change to come. The EVE community has certainly not been told yet.
Two devs are currently working on titan tracking. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:17:00 -
[263] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade.
baltec1 wrote:Two devs are currently working on titan tracking.
I see. And perhaps you would like to share with the rest of the community what specific changes are going to be implemented? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:17:00 -
[264] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. I do find it interesting that you as a Goon seem very certain about the exact nature of the change to come. The EVE community has certainly not been told yet.
http://twitter.com/ktouborg
sorry rock "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
baltec1
744
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:21:00 -
[265] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Two devs are currently working on titan tracking. I see. And perhaps you would like to share with the rest of the community what specific changes are going to be implemented?
They are going to increase it so they can hit the only ship they currently cant, frigates. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:25:00 -
[266] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Two devs are currently working on titan tracking. I see. And perhaps you would like to share with the rest of the community what specific changes are going to be implemented? They are going to increase it so they can hit the only ship they currently cant, frigates.
Ah. Avoiding the question. Well, that is also an answer. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:27:00 -
[267] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Ah. Avoiding the question. Well, that is also an answer.
"nobody knows"
what is for certain is that titan tracking is not going to be the same as it is now
believe it or not, Mittens doesn't feed us any data protected by NDA "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:32:00 -
[268] - Quote
Andski wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Ah. Avoiding the question. Well, that is also an answer. "nobody knows" what is for certain is that titan tracking is not going to be the same as it is now believe it or not, Mittens doesn't feed us any data protected by NDA
Have I accused him of doing that?
But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:34:00 -
[269] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Have I accused him of doing that?
But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today.
I am not backpedaling. I am telling you that titan tracking is not going to remain as it is unless CCP Soundwave suddenly decides that massive turrets should track HICs just fine. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:43:00 -
[270] - Quote
Andski wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Have I accused him of doing that?
But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today. I am not backpedaling. I am telling you that titan tracking is not going to remain as it is unless CCP Soundwave suddenly decides that massive turrets should track HICs just fine.
And I am wondering where you have that information from. Because it sure isnt from his twitter feed. |
|
baltec1
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 17:53:00 -
[271] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Ah. Avoiding the question. Well, that is also an answer. "nobody knows" what is for certain is that titan tracking is not going to be the same as it is now believe it or not, Mittens doesn't feed us any data protected by NDA Have I accused him of doing that? But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today.
Whos backpedaling?
You dont need a PHD to see what two devs working on titam turret tracking will result in. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:02:00 -
[272] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Have I accused him of doing that?
But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today. I am not backpedaling. I am telling you that titan tracking is not going to remain as it is unless CCP Soundwave suddenly decides that massive turrets should track HICs just fine. And I am wondering where you have that information from. Because it sure isnt from his twitter feed.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=841398#post841398
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced" "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:05:00 -
[273] - Quote
Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I state this view.
I'll wait. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:08:00 -
[274] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I state this view. I'll wait.
you've been against any adjustment to titans because THE GOONIE BLOB WILL BE UNSTOPPABLE or some nonsense
you have been bleating about this (and tech rebalancing) for months and you don't even bother posting from your main "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:10:00 -
[275] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait.
Again. Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view.
I'll wait. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:11:00 -
[276] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait. Again. Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait.
enjoy waiting "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
baltec1
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:12:00 -
[277] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait.
"EAF should not be able to jam a 60 bil ship" |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:13:00 -
[278] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait. "EAF should not be able to jam a 60 bil ship"
No they shouldnt. Thats silly. That does NOT equal "don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced", though, in any shape or form. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:14:00 -
[279] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait. "EAF should not be able to jam a 60 bil ship" No they shouldnt. Thats silly. That does NOT equal "don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced", though, in any shape or form.
you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:16:00 -
[280] - Quote
Andski wrote:
enjoy waiting
Failed to back up your claim? Thought so. Propaganda can be hard sometimes. |
|
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:16:00 -
[281] - Quote
Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot.
edit. oh why bother. Blocked. |
baltec1
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:17:00 -
[282] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot.
Kinda is seeing how you say they shouldn't because of the price. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:20:00 -
[283] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot. Kinda is seeing how you say they shouldn't because of the price.
No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:21:00 -
[284] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship will in turn be a doomsday primary.
"WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2261
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:21:00 -
[285] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot. Kinda is seeing how you say they shouldn't because of the price. No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural?
a frigate can tackle a carrier
hope that helps moron
also lmao this sperging shirtlord saying that I'm sperging, lafffffffffffff "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
baltec1
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:26:00 -
[286] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote: No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural?
Titans shooting destoryers is fine but a FRIGATE Shooting a TITAN!
THATS UNTHINKABLE!
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight! |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:29:00 -
[287] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural?
Titans shooting destoryers is fine but a FRIGATE Shooting a TITAN! THATS UNTHINKABLE!
OMG. So I have said that a frigate should not be able to SHOOT a titan now? Is that what you are claiming? |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:30:00 -
[288] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural?
you're right, ewar capitals should be designed for this purpose so that they can top the DD overview, instead of a frigate that will be instantly decimated by the poorest excuse of a support fleet if it's not already getting neuted by a supercarrier
you should work for CCP lol |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:39:00 -
[289] - Quote
oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:40:00 -
[290] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight!
Yeah lets pretend that this game only consist of 9 year old vets and 3 month old newbs. Nothing in between. |
|
baltec1
745
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:41:00 -
[291] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight!
Yeah lets pretend that this game only consist of 9 year old vets and 3 month old newbs. Nothing in between.
Only those two groups can fly frigates? |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:41:00 -
[292] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I
Yep. And if you had done a TINY bit of reaserch, you had found that I feel this to be extremely broken.
Bet that caught you by surprise. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 18:42:00 -
[293] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight!
Yeah lets pretend that this game only consist of 9 year old vets and 3 month old newbs. Nothing in between. Only those two groups can fly frigates?
Frigates and titans. Isnt that what this game is about? |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 19:38:00 -
[294] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot. Kinda is seeing how you say they shouldn't because of the price. No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural? what does it being a frigate have anything to do with this
seems to me friend you are very mad at the idea of a 20-30mil ship could ewar a titan |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 19:57:00 -
[295] - Quote
Berke Negri wrote: what does it being a frigate have anything to do with this
seems to me friend you are very mad at the idea of a 20-30mil ship could ewar a titan
To be honest, what my opinions "seems " to be for you guys is a matter of less and less interest to me. But okay:
A frigate would not have the internal power to overcome the electronic defenses of a titan. The very notion just hilariously bad. Thats all. It is as silly as the quite insane notion that the only way a new player can contribute meaningfully to a fleet is to be able to tackle titans in frigates. |
Avid Bumhumper
Furian Necromongers
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:37:00 -
[296] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I
Only complete noobs use frigs to cyno in a battle fleet....
And I'm all for Ewar class dreads, and even a falcon or BS having a small chance to jam a Super, but give the Supers back a rudimentary drone bay as well, maybe 1000 m3. In their current form, more nerfing means no supers at all, other than the side that can bring the most by far.
And considering the half-assed fleets that took down those supers the other night, how can anyone say that SuperCoffins are balanced now? |
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 22:01:00 -
[297] - Quote
they're balanced because they're dead |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 22:07:00 -
[298] - Quote
Berke Negri wrote:they're balanced because they're dead
Thank you. This is in fact the most precisly formulated and comprehensive depiction of the Goon point of view with regards to super capitals I have read on these forums, ever. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2268
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:03:00 -
[299] - Quote
it is a lot easier to put this outbreak alt on ignore
his opinion is worthless as he does not have experience with supercapitals at all "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
71
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:12:00 -
[300] - Quote
Wow... thats just... wow. Protect highsec.-áWe are the 66%.
https://p.twimg.com/Ajc6KNBCQAAT9my.png (Source: https://twitter.com/ccp_diagoras ) |
|
Yumi Sagara
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:12:00 -
[301] - Quote
ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow.
Supercaps Online :) |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:21:00 -
[302] - Quote
Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :)
Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth.
Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else. |
baltec1
751
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:54:00 -
[303] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :) Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth. Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else.
It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:15:00 -
[304] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals.
Dont be shy Baltec. just say it. Death to all supercaps. Amirite?
I'm not gonna argue this point with you. Firsty because I dont include you among people with any sense at all, but more importantly, because I think people reading forums are quite fed up with both of us allready.
Tia. |
baltec1
751
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:20:00 -
[305] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this point with you.
Only because you can't. |
Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:24:00 -
[306] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this point with you.
Only because you can't.
He's afraid his "winky" might shrink into none existance if he admits that Goons have to compensate for their lack of skills with using a meta win stratergy and have to ask CCP to nerfbat their foes. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
208
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:26:00 -
[307] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something...
Delici Feelgood wrote:He's afraid his "winky" might shrink into none existance if he admits that Goons have to compensate for their lack of skills with using a meta win stratergy and have to ask CCP to nerfbat their foes. Haven't you heard, there was a PL spai that leaked the fact we are producing tons of titans. I have no idea if it's true but why would he lie? Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
baltec1
751
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:29:00 -
[308] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something...
A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
208
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:31:00 -
[309] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something... A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail Ah right, get that one bullet to plink the shields of an Avatar (just as it LAZ0RS you to hell) so you can get on its killmail. Perfect! Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 00:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something... A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail Ah right, get that one bullet to plink the shields of an Avatar (just as it LAZ0RS you to hell) so you can get on its killmail. Perfect! My God, think of his ISK efficiency tho.
You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
|
Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 05:10:00 -
[311] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Haven't you heard, there was a PL spai that leaked the fact we are producing tons of titans. I have no idea if it's true but why would he lie?
we're only doing it because we know once we start using them regularly they are sure to be nerfed then |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:56:00 -
[312] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :) Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth. Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else. It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals. It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
|
baltec1
754
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:02:00 -
[313] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:13:00 -
[314] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten.
How? With bigger blobs? Or with a titan blob?
Oh and you seem to worry a lot about small alliances. Could you sir please tell us how a small alliance could successfufully take some CFC systems?
And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
|
baltec1
755
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:23:00 -
[315] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:baltec1 wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. How? With bigger blobs? Or with a titan blob? Oh and you seem to worry a lot about small alliances. Could you sir please tell us how a small alliance could successfufully take some CFC systems? And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently. Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
Please point out this recent titan welp.
Also;
-welpdreads do not work, it has been tried. -AAA caught a titan fleet that had no support. AAA had to abandon the fight because they couldn't scratch them dispite outnumbering the titans 4 to 1 while the titans were picking them off. -the side with the most titans wins, it is pointless to try when outnumbered.
If you knew your eve history you would know that smaller alliances used to beat big ones right up untill the supercap buffs. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2279
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 13:22:00 -
[316] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
That's because supercarriers are not terribly effective at dealing with subcaps, especially sub-BS. Fighter bombers will not subcaps and fighters are easily dealt with. Crucible balanced them - the days of a Nyx blob throwing hundreds of drones at everything are over. They are still highly effective against capitals, sov structures and stations, as they should be. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
zealot shakree
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:50:00 -
[317] - Quote
The problem with tracking titans is not how high you can get the tracking, or the sig of the guns or how badly they beat supercaptials in actual tranquility conditions (shut up with your eft garbage if you think its just a simple matter of getting under titan guns).
The problem is that you can commit as many zero tanked tracking titans as you want to a battle and take little risk of losing them regardless of how outmatch your captial and subcapital support is.
The reason for this is fitting in space. Now I don't have a problem with the fitting in space mechanic but why in the hell should someone be able to commit a paper thin titan to a battle and blap the **** out of subcaps. Then perhaps it gets scanned and primaried by a superior subcapital and suicide dread squad all that titan pilot has to do is refit (just after he has aggressed, and currently being aggressed by say a 200 subcaps and a handful of dreads).
Why are capitals allowed to refit when they are aggroed and being aggroed? First of all it doesn't make sense to be able to refit modules on a ship that is currently being melted.
Second of all lets see how many tracking titans even get fielded with the threat of possibly losing them to subcapitals/dreads since they wont be refit tank as soon as they are threatened.
Add to the mechanics that you cannot refit when you are shooting or being shot, problem solved. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 00:16:00 -
[318] - Quote
Andski wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
That's because supercarriers are not terribly effective at dealing with subcaps, especially sub-BS. They can hold a maximum of 35 fighters, without the ability to use other drones. Crucible balanced them - the days of a Nyx blob throwing hundreds of drones at everything are over. They are still highly effective against capitals, sov structures and stations, as they should be.
I am not against a dread buff. The only reason why moms are still being fielded in fights is to provide reps to titans.
Nerf Titan-tracking and supercaps will become effectively useless in fights and numbers >>> all |
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 17:34:00 -
[319] - Quote
Wow 16 pages...
Heres my proposal Make dreads easier to build. Lower the material requirements so they can be easier to welp fleet to kill the titan blob.
Now they can be leroyed into battles to welp kill a titan. Only problem with this is that theres usually 50 titans on the field like Raiden. so effectively does. This means that 50 will be insta-doomsdayed before they can even get a lock on the titan they are welping.
Here's how you fix that. Have these massive titan/nyx blobs bump off each other. Its hard to keep all your uber resist capitals repped up and killing welp dreads when they are spread over 2 grids because they keep bouncing off each other with that 16km sig (Ragnarok before rigs).
http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg (Credit where its due I found this further up in the thread)
The fact that you can fit over 58 titans and their support into one grid is insane. Titans (last I checked) have such a big sig radius means that you should not be able to pile this many together. If they gave each other bumps so they aren't all piled in on each other (which is quite unrealistic, I dont know about you but I dont think I can fit 20 aircraft carriers into the space taken up by 2 without crushing them down) they would be so far apart from each other supercarriers wouldn't be able to tear apart welpdreads because they would be far outside their fighterbomber range, and welp dreads would be able to tear them apart and titan blobing would end.
Alternatively,
bringing back the AOE doomsday. Nobody will blob titans if they know that they will end up with friendly fire because of their doomsdays, giving welp dreads more time to do their job.
And if that titan is alone and doesn't need to worry about friendly fire, he cant doomsday all the dreadnoughts away and dies because he lacked support.
Comments? |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 17:45:00 -
[320] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Alternatively,
bringing back the AOE doomsday. Nobody will blob titans if they know that they will end up with friendly fire because of their doomsdays, giving welp dreads more time to do their job.
And if that titan is alone and doesn't need to worry about friendly fire, he cant doomsday all the dreadnoughts away and dies because he lacked support.
Comments?
Terrible idea. Titans have more hotpoints than dreradnoughts meaning that if you have enough titans [how are you going to split a single titan away from a fleet of them unless is a stupid titan pilot?] you can doomsday enough dreadnoughts without destroying your fleet of titans. The AOE doomsday was removed for a reason alhtough it was mainly the effect of destroying subcap fleets that was its undoing.
The only way to rebalance titans is either a] to remove them from EvE Online, b] give all capitals/&supercapitals sub-systems so their doomsay weapons/jumpdrives/drone bays etc can be blown up or c] create more anti-capital support like mobile cyno inhibitors as a ship or module so no one in the immediate grid can light a cyno. Or something like that. |
|
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 18:09:00 -
[321] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:c] create more anti-capital support like mobile cyno inhibitors as a ship or module so no one in the immediate grid can light a cyno. Or something like that.
I like that idea, the only problem with something cynojamming the local grid is that they could get an off-grid cyno, and if their fleet was fast enough they could get the titans on grid before that cyno was shut down and have their massive titan blob warp in. There does need to be something that can end the capital blobs though, or at least the supercapitals blobs since a carrier can be killed *fairly* easily by well armed subcapitals (Mainly because their DPS is limited to about 1k, that of a faction battleship). |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 18:24:00 -
[322] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:A fleet of 100 subcaps can easily do it as well.
That's the theory. The reality is that there are very few alliances capable of regularly fielding 100+ man fleets. So you want to turn EVE into a game of Superpower A vs Superpower B only? How will small alliances take sov? How will small alliances engage in (relatively) small battles, with capitals/supercapitals proving their worth by bringing a decisive advantage over the guy that brought a couple dreadnaughts only - provided they don't in turn get hot-dropped? . They'll take Sov by making friends.
Shocking as it might be people skills is important to politics. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
487
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 19:08:00 -
[323] - Quote
Dreads - Increase tank of Dreads comparable to a SC, not the same but close. - Give Dreads Mini-DD, not capable of killing them damn well hurting titan's when you blob them. 250k with 5 min cycle sound good ? - Titan fleets should be able to destroy a handful if you got several hundred, but the upside...titans are now stuck on grid for 10 minutes. - Titan's are the alpha strike, dreads are the volley strike in numbers. Both Titans and Dread have secondary guns, capable of hurting the **** out of each other (buff dread guns as well). - Dreads are smaller build requirements, Titans have excessive amounts of build time.
Secondary options, more anti-cap weapons available to the public in smaller packages. Frigate - New heavy strike frigate, fits 3 capital torpedos and fires them like a Bomber, only the missiles are accurate. - Cheap replacements - Rearms off grid from a carrier acting like an ammo dump
Siege cruiser - Upgraded Bomber, fires 3 capital missiles at a time and has room in the cargo for several dozen - Bonuses to explosion velocity, cycle time, and damage
Black Ops - Fits cov ops cloak, warps invisible - Capital EWAR modules, cause the fuel increase of the titan bridge to double reducing the blob on grid in half
Anti-Structure Battleship - New role for the unused tier 3 battleships - Fits dread guns, much like the the tier 3 battlecruisers and has a thin tank. - Replaces the dread, cause lol we need excessive training time to destroy structures that theoritically a rifter could do it if given an infinite amount of time - Usable in highsec, cause lol you all hate AFKing towers but have a lol aggressive vendetta to destroy them (assuming its not a corp that hops the dec) |
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 20:07:00 -
[324] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Dreads - Increase tank of Dreads comparable to a SC, not the same but close. - Give Dreads Mini-DD, not capable of killing them damn well hurting titan's when you blob them. 250k with 5 min cycle sound good ? - Titan fleets should be able to destroy a handful if you got several hundred, but the upside...titans are now stuck on grid for 10 minutes. - Titan's are the alpha strike, dreads are the volley strike in numbers. Both Titans and Dread have secondary guns, capable of hurting the **** out of each other (buff dread guns as well). - Dreads are smaller build requirements, Titans have excessive amounts of build time. Secondary options, more anti-cap weapons available to the public in smaller packages. Frigate - New heavy strike frigate, fits 3 capital torpedos and fires them like a Bomber, only the missiles are accurate. - Cheap replacements - Rearms off grid from a carrier acting like an ammo dump Siege cruiser - Upgraded Bomber, fires 3 capital missiles at a time and has room in the cargo for several dozen - Bonuses to explosion velocity, cycle time, and damage Black Ops - Fits cov ops cloak, warps invisible - Capital EWAR modules, cause the fuel increase of the titan bridge to double reducing the blob on grid in half Anti-Structure Battleship - New role for the unused tier 3 battleships - Fits dread guns, much like the the tier 3 battlecruisers and has a thin tank. - Replaces the dread, cause lol we need excessive training time to destroy structures that theoritically a rifter could do it if given an infinite amount of time - Usable in highsec, cause lol you all hate AFKing towers but have a lol aggressive vendetta to destroy them (assuming its not a corp that hops the dec)
I like the direction you're going with these ideas.
The only one I don't think would be particularly useful is the Black Ops. Fuel consumption isn't really an issue, they'll just have two titans doing the bridging instead of one. Maybe instead, make the Black Ops a hacking platform that allows the pilot to infiltrate the titans systems and do all sorts of nasty stuff like offline modules or shield emitters or engines. Could make it a little mini-game with a potentially huge effect on the battlefield.
|
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 00:52:00 -
[325] - Quote
If Dreads didn't get instapop'd by a single doomsday that would definitely help the welp-dread, or just dreads in general for large fleet engagements.
Also something for POS bashing in highsec that's bigger than a battleship would be GREAT cause structure grind... *shivers.* How much herp could a herp derp herp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
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