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Yumi Sagara
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:12:00 -
[301] - Quote
ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow.
Supercaps Online :) |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:21:00 -
[302] - Quote
Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :)
Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth.
Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else. |
baltec1
751
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:54:00 -
[303] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :) Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth. Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else.
It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals. |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
420
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:15:00 -
[304] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals.
Dont be shy Baltec. just say it. Death to all supercaps. Amirite?
I'm not gonna argue this point with you. Firsty because I dont include you among people with any sense at all, but more importantly, because I think people reading forums are quite fed up with both of us allready.
Tia. |
baltec1
751
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:20:00 -
[305] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this point with you.
Only because you can't. |
Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:24:00 -
[306] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this point with you.
Only because you can't.
He's afraid his "winky" might shrink into none existance if he admits that Goons have to compensate for their lack of skills with using a meta win stratergy and have to ask CCP to nerfbat their foes. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
208
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:26:00 -
[307] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something...
Delici Feelgood wrote:He's afraid his "winky" might shrink into none existance if he admits that Goons have to compensate for their lack of skills with using a meta win stratergy and have to ask CCP to nerfbat their foes. Haven't you heard, there was a PL spai that leaked the fact we are producing tons of titans. I have no idea if it's true but why would he lie? Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
baltec1
751
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:29:00 -
[308] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something...
A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
208
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:31:00 -
[309] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something... A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail Ah right, get that one bullet to plink the shields of an Avatar (just as it LAZ0RS you to hell) so you can get on its killmail. Perfect! Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something... A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail Ah right, get that one bullet to plink the shields of an Avatar (just as it LAZ0RS you to hell) so you can get on its killmail. Perfect! My God, think of his ISK efficiency tho.
You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
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Berke Negri
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.03.02 05:10:00 -
[311] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Haven't you heard, there was a PL spai that leaked the fact we are producing tons of titans. I have no idea if it's true but why would he lie?
we're only doing it because we know once we start using them regularly they are sure to be nerfed then |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.02 10:56:00 -
[312] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :) Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth. Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else. It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals. It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
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baltec1
754
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:02:00 -
[313] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:13:00 -
[314] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten.
How? With bigger blobs? Or with a titan blob?
Oh and you seem to worry a lot about small alliances. Could you sir please tell us how a small alliance could successfufully take some CFC systems?
And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
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baltec1
755
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:23:00 -
[315] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:baltec1 wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. How? With bigger blobs? Or with a titan blob? Oh and you seem to worry a lot about small alliances. Could you sir please tell us how a small alliance could successfufully take some CFC systems? And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently. Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
Please point out this recent titan welp.
Also;
-welpdreads do not work, it has been tried. -AAA caught a titan fleet that had no support. AAA had to abandon the fight because they couldn't scratch them dispite outnumbering the titans 4 to 1 while the titans were picking them off. -the side with the most titans wins, it is pointless to try when outnumbered.
If you knew your eve history you would know that smaller alliances used to beat big ones right up untill the supercap buffs. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2279
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 13:22:00 -
[316] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
That's because supercarriers are not terribly effective at dealing with subcaps, especially sub-BS. Fighter bombers will not subcaps and fighters are easily dealt with. Crucible balanced them - the days of a Nyx blob throwing hundreds of drones at everything are over. They are still highly effective against capitals, sov structures and stations, as they should be. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
zealot shakree
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:50:00 -
[317] - Quote
The problem with tracking titans is not how high you can get the tracking, or the sig of the guns or how badly they beat supercaptials in actual tranquility conditions (shut up with your eft garbage if you think its just a simple matter of getting under titan guns).
The problem is that you can commit as many zero tanked tracking titans as you want to a battle and take little risk of losing them regardless of how outmatch your captial and subcapital support is.
The reason for this is fitting in space. Now I don't have a problem with the fitting in space mechanic but why in the hell should someone be able to commit a paper thin titan to a battle and blap the **** out of subcaps. Then perhaps it gets scanned and primaried by a superior subcapital and suicide dread squad all that titan pilot has to do is refit (just after he has aggressed, and currently being aggressed by say a 200 subcaps and a handful of dreads).
Why are capitals allowed to refit when they are aggroed and being aggroed? First of all it doesn't make sense to be able to refit modules on a ship that is currently being melted.
Second of all lets see how many tracking titans even get fielded with the threat of possibly losing them to subcapitals/dreads since they wont be refit tank as soon as they are threatened.
Add to the mechanics that you cannot refit when you are shooting or being shot, problem solved. |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 00:16:00 -
[318] - Quote
Andski wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently.
Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them
P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
That's because supercarriers are not terribly effective at dealing with subcaps, especially sub-BS. They can hold a maximum of 35 fighters, without the ability to use other drones. Crucible balanced them - the days of a Nyx blob throwing hundreds of drones at everything are over. They are still highly effective against capitals, sov structures and stations, as they should be.
I am not against a dread buff. The only reason why moms are still being fielded in fights is to provide reps to titans.
Nerf Titan-tracking and supercaps will become effectively useless in fights and numbers >>> all |
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 17:34:00 -
[319] - Quote
Wow 16 pages...
Heres my proposal Make dreads easier to build. Lower the material requirements so they can be easier to welp fleet to kill the titan blob.
Now they can be leroyed into battles to welp kill a titan. Only problem with this is that theres usually 50 titans on the field like Raiden. so effectively does. This means that 50 will be insta-doomsdayed before they can even get a lock on the titan they are welping.
Here's how you fix that. Have these massive titan/nyx blobs bump off each other. Its hard to keep all your uber resist capitals repped up and killing welp dreads when they are spread over 2 grids because they keep bouncing off each other with that 16km sig (Ragnarok before rigs).
http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg (Credit where its due I found this further up in the thread)
The fact that you can fit over 58 titans and their support into one grid is insane. Titans (last I checked) have such a big sig radius means that you should not be able to pile this many together. If they gave each other bumps so they aren't all piled in on each other (which is quite unrealistic, I dont know about you but I dont think I can fit 20 aircraft carriers into the space taken up by 2 without crushing them down) they would be so far apart from each other supercarriers wouldn't be able to tear apart welpdreads because they would be far outside their fighterbomber range, and welp dreads would be able to tear them apart and titan blobing would end.
Alternatively,
bringing back the AOE doomsday. Nobody will blob titans if they know that they will end up with friendly fire because of their doomsdays, giving welp dreads more time to do their job.
And if that titan is alone and doesn't need to worry about friendly fire, he cant doomsday all the dreadnoughts away and dies because he lacked support.
Comments? |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 17:45:00 -
[320] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Alternatively,
bringing back the AOE doomsday. Nobody will blob titans if they know that they will end up with friendly fire because of their doomsdays, giving welp dreads more time to do their job.
And if that titan is alone and doesn't need to worry about friendly fire, he cant doomsday all the dreadnoughts away and dies because he lacked support.
Comments?
Terrible idea. Titans have more hotpoints than dreradnoughts meaning that if you have enough titans [how are you going to split a single titan away from a fleet of them unless is a stupid titan pilot?] you can doomsday enough dreadnoughts without destroying your fleet of titans. The AOE doomsday was removed for a reason alhtough it was mainly the effect of destroying subcap fleets that was its undoing.
The only way to rebalance titans is either a] to remove them from EvE Online, b] give all capitals/&supercapitals sub-systems so their doomsay weapons/jumpdrives/drone bays etc can be blown up or c] create more anti-capital support like mobile cyno inhibitors as a ship or module so no one in the immediate grid can light a cyno. Or something like that. |
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
17
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Posted - 2012.03.11 18:09:00 -
[321] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:c] create more anti-capital support like mobile cyno inhibitors as a ship or module so no one in the immediate grid can light a cyno. Or something like that.
I like that idea, the only problem with something cynojamming the local grid is that they could get an off-grid cyno, and if their fleet was fast enough they could get the titans on grid before that cyno was shut down and have their massive titan blob warp in. There does need to be something that can end the capital blobs though, or at least the supercapitals blobs since a carrier can be killed *fairly* easily by well armed subcapitals (Mainly because their DPS is limited to about 1k, that of a faction battleship). |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.03.11 18:24:00 -
[322] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote:A fleet of 100 subcaps can easily do it as well.
That's the theory. The reality is that there are very few alliances capable of regularly fielding 100+ man fleets. So you want to turn EVE into a game of Superpower A vs Superpower B only? How will small alliances take sov? How will small alliances engage in (relatively) small battles, with capitals/supercapitals proving their worth by bringing a decisive advantage over the guy that brought a couple dreadnaughts only - provided they don't in turn get hot-dropped? . They'll take Sov by making friends.
Shocking as it might be people skills is important to politics. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
487
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 19:08:00 -
[323] - Quote
Dreads - Increase tank of Dreads comparable to a SC, not the same but close. - Give Dreads Mini-DD, not capable of killing them damn well hurting titan's when you blob them. 250k with 5 min cycle sound good ? - Titan fleets should be able to destroy a handful if you got several hundred, but the upside...titans are now stuck on grid for 10 minutes. - Titan's are the alpha strike, dreads are the volley strike in numbers. Both Titans and Dread have secondary guns, capable of hurting the **** out of each other (buff dread guns as well). - Dreads are smaller build requirements, Titans have excessive amounts of build time.
Secondary options, more anti-cap weapons available to the public in smaller packages. Frigate - New heavy strike frigate, fits 3 capital torpedos and fires them like a Bomber, only the missiles are accurate. - Cheap replacements - Rearms off grid from a carrier acting like an ammo dump
Siege cruiser - Upgraded Bomber, fires 3 capital missiles at a time and has room in the cargo for several dozen - Bonuses to explosion velocity, cycle time, and damage
Black Ops - Fits cov ops cloak, warps invisible - Capital EWAR modules, cause the fuel increase of the titan bridge to double reducing the blob on grid in half
Anti-Structure Battleship - New role for the unused tier 3 battleships - Fits dread guns, much like the the tier 3 battlecruisers and has a thin tank. - Replaces the dread, cause lol we need excessive training time to destroy structures that theoritically a rifter could do it if given an infinite amount of time - Usable in highsec, cause lol you all hate AFKing towers but have a lol aggressive vendetta to destroy them (assuming its not a corp that hops the dec) |
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
16
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Posted - 2012.03.11 20:07:00 -
[324] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Dreads - Increase tank of Dreads comparable to a SC, not the same but close. - Give Dreads Mini-DD, not capable of killing them damn well hurting titan's when you blob them. 250k with 5 min cycle sound good ? - Titan fleets should be able to destroy a handful if you got several hundred, but the upside...titans are now stuck on grid for 10 minutes. - Titan's are the alpha strike, dreads are the volley strike in numbers. Both Titans and Dread have secondary guns, capable of hurting the **** out of each other (buff dread guns as well). - Dreads are smaller build requirements, Titans have excessive amounts of build time. Secondary options, more anti-cap weapons available to the public in smaller packages. Frigate - New heavy strike frigate, fits 3 capital torpedos and fires them like a Bomber, only the missiles are accurate. - Cheap replacements - Rearms off grid from a carrier acting like an ammo dump Siege cruiser - Upgraded Bomber, fires 3 capital missiles at a time and has room in the cargo for several dozen - Bonuses to explosion velocity, cycle time, and damage Black Ops - Fits cov ops cloak, warps invisible - Capital EWAR modules, cause the fuel increase of the titan bridge to double reducing the blob on grid in half Anti-Structure Battleship - New role for the unused tier 3 battleships - Fits dread guns, much like the the tier 3 battlecruisers and has a thin tank. - Replaces the dread, cause lol we need excessive training time to destroy structures that theoritically a rifter could do it if given an infinite amount of time - Usable in highsec, cause lol you all hate AFKing towers but have a lol aggressive vendetta to destroy them (assuming its not a corp that hops the dec)
I like the direction you're going with these ideas.
The only one I don't think would be particularly useful is the Black Ops. Fuel consumption isn't really an issue, they'll just have two titans doing the bridging instead of one. Maybe instead, make the Black Ops a hacking platform that allows the pilot to infiltrate the titans systems and do all sorts of nasty stuff like offline modules or shield emitters or engines. Could make it a little mini-game with a potentially huge effect on the battlefield.
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
18
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Posted - 2012.03.13 00:52:00 -
[325] - Quote
If Dreads didn't get instapop'd by a single doomsday that would definitely help the welp-dread, or just dreads in general for large fleet engagements.
Also something for POS bashing in highsec that's bigger than a battleship would be GREAT cause structure grind... *shivers.* How much herp could a herp derp herp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
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