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baltec1
694
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Posted - 2012.02.24 17:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: How that? White Noise probably still has a shitload of supercaps and still they are losing to goons due to fail cascade. Raiden on the other hand is rather new in the region but has huge problems to defend themselve against goons without supercaps. In order to gather a huge number of players you will have to give them something in return. Entrenched alliances can give them sanctums, new alliances can't do that.
Your arguments do not make sense when you look at the empirical facts.
WN did not put up any kind of fight. The one time they tried the leader "forgot to set his alarm" so they all say there playing with themselves while we burned their empire to the ground.
BOB (3 times), NC (before the cascade) the russians many many times, MC, ASCN, Tri multiple times ect all had the biggest blob in their time and were all beaten. |
baltec1
694
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Posted - 2012.02.24 17:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: It isn't good to depend too heavily on a single arm of decision. Though if you have an overpowered arm of decision, you should use it as much as possible while it's overpowered.
It would suck to be an alliance (over)depending heavily on turret titans and they somehow got nerfed just as an angry group of people started throwing dreadnaughts around like they were rifters (in comparison).
Good sir, surely you cant be saying that the forces of the anti blue anti coalition coalition rely too much upon titans and have no other plans! |
baltec1
696
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Posted - 2012.02.24 20:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:Well if we look past goons spam and troll i think you CCP need to look into your style of "nerf" and look more at big picture.
Making ships useless and not needed is not the way to go, we tried this with Supercarriers and now again with Titan's...
time, skills, isk and risk for making a super capital alone should really make you CCP think about what effect this yet another nerf will have on EVE and in total blobs of drakes... hope you guys are proud... enough drakes and you can do anything...
no need for any capitals or supercapitals anywhere.... hope this is a proud momemt for you CCP.
and now for more Goon troll and spam. :)
You dont want to make ships useless yet you defend a ship that makes everything else useless? |
baltec1
696
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Posted - 2012.02.24 20:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die.
Sounds like a fun game. |
baltec1
697
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Posted - 2012.02.24 21:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kern Walzky wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kern Walzky wrote:
if you think you can win eve in drakes your mistaken... you should counter with titans/supercarriers/dreads and then bring drakes aswell... i cant belive you think sub-capitals should always win nomatter what..
Welcome to supercaps online, if you cannot fly one then you are useless and will just die. Sounds like a fun game. Get your dread m8t capitals is the counter m8t. i truely hope you have a dream in flying bigger more expensive in the future... you do know if drakes win they are next in ccp's nerf. :) so i want CCP to look into not making ships useless, but look at the bigger picture.
I am. Have you noticed the lack of new alliances in 0.0? And I dont mean one of the old ones under a new name I mean like Test when they were new.
People cannot make any inroads into 0.0 in the current situation because fights are unwinnable. There are no tactics or fleet comps to counter titans for them. The smaller 0.0 alliances are also suffering because again, no counter available for them. The only power in all of EVE that could field enough dreads to make the difference is the CFC and even then the few hundred dreads would not be expected to survive the fight.
We are lucky in that we can come up with a counter, be it dreadswarm or just building more titans but for the vast bulk of EVE, they're ******. |
baltec1
703
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Posted - 2012.02.24 21:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, getting 100 or so dreads who are happy to die in their 2bil+ ship is..
I'm sure we could talk test into it |
baltec1
703
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Posted - 2012.02.24 22:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Headerman wrote:You do realise that for a titan to kill a subcap that ship has to be webbed down a lot, right?
Wrong. |
baltec1
734
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Posted - 2012.02.28 21:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
lets listen to the 300 who fly titans and make everything not a supercap useless in a battle.
Or we can listen to the tens of thousands who dont fly titans and want to have EVE return to a game in which they can matter as much as the 1%. |
baltec1
734
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Posted - 2012.02.28 21:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'd rather not listen to any of you tbh. You dont bring anything new to the table anyway. Just a god damn mud slinging contest.
Thankfully CCP is right now working on changes to the tracking of titans so this issue is about to vanish.
Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup? |
baltec1
735
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Posted - 2012.02.28 21:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?
If you dont know how I think CCP should handle that question by now Baltec, I reccommed you train reading comprehension level 1.
I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
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baltec1
735
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Posted - 2012.02.28 21:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.
They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.
But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.
You mean the 200+ dreads people would need to make any kind of impact before they got taken out by the DDs + turrets of the titans which were brought about for the task of killing capital ships?
Exactly how many alliances could manage a fleet of welpdreads and the replacement of the inevetable large losses that would be taken?
CCP have said they don't want to see capital ships online. That is what we currently have. |
baltec1
735
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Posted - 2012.02.28 21:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?.
None of which provide counters for subcaps. |
baltec1
735
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks.
This is good for the game how? |
baltec1
735
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:
Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.
I too, QQ abouth that Megathron blapping my Harpy.
Its more like my megathron blapping a light drone while its orbiting me. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks.
This is good for the game how?
After supers are cleared... 99% of the playerbase and shiptypes becoming useless and unable to do anything to goonswarms 3k big blobs.... This is good for the game how ?
There has only ever been one battle involving 3k people and that was the NC vs the Dronelands coalition in the war of the north. The blob has always been in EVE and has a long history or been beaten. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
And at a stroke, 99% of the eve playerbase and shiptypes become useless and unable to do anything to the big powerblocks. This is good for the game how? All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans. Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan.
You mean like how a t2 destoryer can stop 100 of those 80 billion isk titans from jumping out?
Electronic attack frigates would be a perfect counter for titans as they can be used by even the small alliances while being able to be countered rather easily. What exactly is so bad about a reletivly new player from playing an important roll in battles? |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
If he sends his light drones after it, seems like it would be a blap to me. And one light drone cannot hold your mega in place while you wait for all the other ships to get there to pop your expensive ass.
I for one don't care to see the sandbox nerfed down to Hello kitty Online due to a campaign by one powerbloc of Eve and thier minions/alts to nerf Supers to the point of uselessness. Could Titans use a bit less tracking? Perhaps, I've lost BS to the Titan blobs, it can be annoying, but the bottom line is, you can field them too.....
People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns. The sandbox is currently nerfed so that the only counter is more titans which wont happen bacuse one side has more than the other or a dreadblob of such huge numbers than, realisticly only one block can manage and even that is questionable. Meanwhile everyone else is helpless. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror.
A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank? |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote: People are losing destroyers and cruisers to titan guns.
People are loosing 650-1000m sized ships to 1000m res guns. Oh the horror. A none MWDing blackbird with an armour tank? at zero transversal?
so there we have it.
use a sheild tank? You die
Use an armour tank? you die
Use a MWD to get your tranversal up so you dont die? You die.
Yep, that sounds balanced |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, that sounds balanced Again. Rock, paper, scissors - not I have Drakez, want to keeeel Titanz.
Rock beats paper
Rock beats sissors
Rocks fall everyone dies.
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baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Okay. I am going to say this slowly.
You are talking about the present. The present. You see a problem in the present. I am offering you a solution In the (near) future. The future Baltec. This implies a REDESIGN of ships and systems. You are dissing that solution by talking about the present.
DO YOU GET IT?
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online.
Are you still keeping up?
You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
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baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
To quote myself (again)
"All shiptypes in EVE have their role, and they will continue to do so. But to say that a 6 month old character in a EAF should be able to jam a 80 billion titan is just riddicolus. Want to jam those titans? Fine, enter a capital class EWAR ship. That capital EWAR ship might in turn be vulnerable to a rebalanced Scorpion. Which in turn will be raped by aplha malestroms. Which will get their asses handed to them at the hands of armor HACs. Which will get killed by perma-MWDing Drakes. Which will get blapped by Titans.
Rock-Paper-Scissors Baltec. Not I have Drakez, want to kill titan."
Point out the bits that you are unable to comprehend, and especially how this will put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Why shouldnt he be able to jam a titan?
Price means nothing, hence why titans are are in such large numbers. You are wanting a ship whicch titans are geared to destroy and will never be available for smaller alliances in enough numbers to matter. EAF are easy to fly, cheap to lose and easy to kill.
You say you want rock paper sissors. Well here it is and in a way that will benefit everyone not just the elite few like your idea. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Yes, I get that the vast bulk of players in your future will play no other roll than meat for the meat grinder in the largest powerblocks while the small alliances stand zero chance of ever breaking into 0.0 sov and we engage ever further into capitals online.
Are you still keeping up?
You chose to go down a path that ends up with the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever while tossing out an idea that would have a reletivly new player be able to play a significant roll in a very frigile ship that every alliance could field without breaking the bank.
The small alliances you are talking about.... Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ? You get this ?
Point to the last time goons massed 3k people. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote: titans couldn't be tackled by interdictors during the phase of the game that spawned the phrase "neuting bumping battleships" you idiot
I think you may be mentally ********, and are thinking of the patch that nerfed the portal doomsday, meaning titans had to leave the force field to fire their dd's, and couldn't do it through cyno's anymore. Titans have literally always been tacklable. The thing that made Molle tacklable was having to leave the force field, and nothing more.
This is true. It was supercarriers in lowsec that couldnt be stopped. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Tore Vest wrote: Will they have a better chance against a 3k goon & co blob ?
While they aren't really 3k man blobs, baltec1 doesn't want to talk about what happens to smaller alliances versus the 500 man southern block fleets or the 1000 man drake fleets the CFC fields. Its called ignoring a vital part of the argument because it doesn't fit his defense. At least currently a modertate new sized alliance could focus on running incursions while building a super fleet, that would allow it to breach a 0.0 region and deal with a 1000 man blob in theory, baltec1 doesn't like this idea, he wants numbers to mean everything, and that, in turn, snuffs all new life out of 0.0.
The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence.
(Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time) |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 00:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 00:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
The blob never stopped the MC, BoB, NC, Dronelands, Goons, Test, Atlas, IRC, ASCN, Tri, Red Alliance, CO2, CVA andall of the others from losing a campain or even their entire existence.
(Every single one of these have had the same thing about unstoppable blobs said about them in my time)
psst: We had supers then...
ASCN had a grand total of one titan. The NC when they did the great welp of 6nj used 6 titans.
The current PL super fleet number more than everyone combined back in the days I am talking about. Half of them pre-date titans, hell some of them supercarriers.
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baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 00:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:That might be true, but that was a long time ago, the only thing that toppled most of those empires was age, the driving forces behind those alliances got bored and went AFK, that is not a viable counter to the blob, time should not be the answer to beating an empire, the act of watching it crumble from within.
A new alliance shouldn't be forced to wait in Deklien for Goons to go AFK enough to be beaten, there should be weapons at their disposal to deal with a group that thinks spamming 1000 drakes is the answer to a fight.
Currently, those weapons exist, and they exist with the a counter that is cheaply available to just about any person in the game with the skills to fly one.
2 days in an incursion fleet and you have bought, paid for, and insured a dreadnaught. Gather up 70 of these, and suddenly you have something that will literally insta gib a titan, gather 150, and not only will you kill one titan, you'll kill most on field that aren't smart enough to get the hell out of dodge, any more than that and suddenly you're looking at a **** the likes of which the game has never seen.
All that from 2 days worth of effort, 3 if you wanted to pay for 2 months of game time plexes after you buy a dread.
It doesn't take a rich alliance to make this happen, it just takes an alliance wanting it to happen, and then doing it
At least 15 of them will vanish in the first doomsday volly. Then the titans will bring about their turret firepower and tear them apart. The dreads will score one, maby two titan kills before they are obliterated themselves. Two titan losses is nothing for the likes of PL or the CFC.
And I am not talking about when those alliances of old folded, I mean all of the fights they lost in their history. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 00:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.
It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.
If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.
You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 00:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.
No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this
Aside from titan blobs you are right. |
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baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: I think you should look at the numbers, the real actual numbers again. 70 dreads has a hell of a volley, easily killing a tracking fit titan in nearly one volley, 2 finishes it off.
Also exactly 2 tank mods shields a dread from dying to a DD, so to lose 15, you'd need to get hit by 30 DD's fired in the exact right order, you're more likely to lose either A) None since the SOP is to fire DD's randomly at caps or B) 5-10 at most if they were smart enough to double up on targets.
I'm not making any of this up, its actually all in the math, if you wanted to look its there.
Titan balls haven't been countered yet because nobody has actively tried.
EVE has a hard coded habbit of crying nerf first and then later its discovered that people don't need a nerf, just a little forethought.
Examples are, when we first put Ahacs on the map, people were crying that the logis were too strong, that they needed nerfing, later it turned out that Ahacs are actually terrible and easily countered by themselves.
When we rolled out the tengu fleet, the same thing, tengus were fairly strong. Now that everybody and their brother has a Tengu fleet up the counters are beyond obvious.
The same will be said about the titan ball. Right now their only showing up from 3-4 alliances, the other that could field them (AAA) won't, for obvious reasons (they have a lot, but we have more, and ours are probably better at flying the ship in combat than theirs are). Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. As the number of alliances with titan fleets increases, the counters will become more obvious as they are used by other people in the game that already thought of them, and planned for their use.
Our dread fleets, let me show them to you.
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?
Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild. It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy. If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted. How small do you think that minority is Baltec, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints? And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your simple mind you see that you have no ******* argument.
Perhaps if you read what I type you might see it. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more.
Hence why this tactic cant work. It is also not a tactic most alliances can use because they simply do not have the cash flow or the numbers for this kind of warfare. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart?
Or if you use your new capitals blueballs.
This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tore Vest wrote: You keep talking about how bad titans are against small allianses.... but not talking about how bad a blob of goons & co are against the same ppl.... Just say it.... Supers are in your way for nullsec dominance Grath Telkin wrote:Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. Aww man, the secret it is out, we'll mass titans and win whether or not they get nerfed. Your SPAIs, sir, are good at their job. Still, I'm sure a lot of CFC pilots would love to play Never Log in Titan Alt online, so nerfs are a-ok as well.
I wonder if the calls for nerfs will get louder when we drop 200 titans on everything. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Oh I have read it. But you still dont answer how battles involving 80% subcaps in a meaningful rock-paper-scissors environment would leave "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"
Because the titan blob rips them apart? Or if you use your new capitals blueballs. This also means when fighting a defence you become invincible. Lol. yeah I see you have decided to design a fail system. In that case, you will of course be right. Personally, I trust CCP to do a better job at it.
Hence why they are working on titan tracking. Seems they want the rest of the ships in eve to matter. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Good to have your very own T20, isnt it?
Its almost as if you are a titan pilot, bitter about losing god mode and having to put some thought into combat. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Trust me. I never had, and will never have a Titan. But what I really hate is for CCP to screw up the strategic balance in EVE by a ill-advised rush-job like that.
Well if you put all of your eggs into the FOTM basket you tend to get scrambled by people who go with many different strategies when the nerf arrives. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 01:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Lol. Dont flatter yourself.
You have ONE strategy. Blobbing.
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have. |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 02:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Numbers alone don't win fights. They never have.
Ofc not.... but if you have 2-3 times more than your enemy....
NC outnumbered their enemy 10 to 1 in 6nj and lost. IRC outnumbered ourb little bat corp roam 7 to 1 and while they got us, we killed 4 times as much.
History is littered with blobs getting beaten because they were poorly organised, badly lead and had an abismal fleet comp that their enemy exploited. |
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baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 02:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Ofc. But now you are down to tactics. Titans alone never win fights either. Not without a sound tactical employment inclding supporting ships (I am sure you are gonna dispute this point but you will be wrong)
But when it comes to STRATEGIES - you have one card in your deck.
You mean like Mr Vee bombing the enemy fleet to weaken then the drakes/canes get in close and the alpha maels target key ships to weaken them further. If you can get intel on who the FC is you pick him off to stop their target calling while the blackbirds jam their logistics and the frigates go after their dictors and get point on a fleeting target.
Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars |
baltec1
736
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Posted - 2012.02.29 02:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vaffel Junior wrote:baltec1 wrote:
NC outnumbered their enemy 10 to 1 in 6nj and lost. IRC outnumbered ourb little bat corp roam 7 to 1 and while they got us, we killed 4 times as much.
History is littered with blobs getting beaten because they were poorly organised, badly lead and had an abismal fleet comp that their enemy exploited.
How many of those figths had supers in them ?
The ones I mentioned? 1.
The rest? very few. |
baltec1
737
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Posted - 2012.02.29 02:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:I will be sad that day we only see drakes and bombers in a big figth.... but... That day will come....
It arrived in 2010 and got upgraded to tungu and bombers last year. |
baltec1
737
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Posted - 2012.02.29 02:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yep, Strategies dont ever play any part in our wars You keep using this word, but I dont think you understand what it means. You are talking abouth how to fight and win battles. That is tactics. Not strategies. Strategy vs Tactics Yeah I wouldnt introduce operations and the operational level, as it would surely confuse even more
When was the last time your alliance blitzkrieged an entire region in 3 weeks? |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 03:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:
No single ship is invulnerable. 50 titans are.
50 titans can be killed.... learn this game m8
yea, by 70 titans. |
baltec1
737
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Posted - 2012.02.29 03:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
When was the last time your alliance blitzkrieged an entire region in 3 weeks?
Ah yes. The expected response. Yes, at the strategic level - as in using different means to achieve political goals - Goonswarm does indeed have shrewd strategists, and has shown so on different occasions. Collapsing you enemy from within, as it were, no doubt thanks to several conveniently placed agents which can read signs and identify targets for subversive activities. At the political-strategic level, Goonswarm has indeed shown skill. But these activities arenGÇÖt really within the realm of military (warfighting) strategy, vital though it has been to bring down both BoB and IT. As for the "blitzkrieg" (a military strategy) reference: No. You havenGÇÖt really done that - at least to my knowledge. What you HAVE done is exploiting political weakness and internal turmoil to advance rapidly. But Blitzkrieg does not equal rapid advance, even if it may appear so. The term is a German phrase used (these days) mainly to describe campaigns that instead of facing the enemy head-on (direct approach) attacking weaknesses while avoiding strengths. If you want a textbook indirect approach style campaign, you can take a look at PLs campaign against the NC in the opening stages of the DRF/NC war. Goonswarm is in many ways an excellent tactical level married to very shrewd political strategy - which includes metagaming all the way up to the CSM to get what you want. What you have for a military strategy however, is not top notch in EVE. Not by a longshot.
blitzkrieg = lightning war.
We hit them in strategic spots to cut up their space, stop the supply of ships, trap their capitals, and remove key station services. Key money making towers were then hit and taken down along with ratting stations and we captured two key systems which allowed access to all of their space.
But I suppose this too is not what you are looking for? |
baltec1
737
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Posted - 2012.02.29 03:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote: Hey.... you was writing about tactics here earlyer..... Are you shure your 70 titans are only way to kill 50 ?
I have yet to hear anyone come up with something else. |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 08:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Nah goons are bad at eve.
We're about to be kicked out of Dek in just a little bit by the completely balanced
Its the 29th, this must be the day it happens |
baltec1
740
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Posted - 2012.02.29 13:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Because rampaging all over the map almost instantly, and then insta-blapping everything on grid is hard is it?
So how's that logoffski fix/nerf worked out for you, bru?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12588868
Rather well thank you. |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 14:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
sakurako wrote:
wait are you trying to say that super fleet loged off, you know the unkillable fleet the over powered fleet had to log off cos it couldn't win.
this can't be it must be a lie why would they need to log off if they can't be killed when there is a group of them.
to aaa, rol and the others on that titan kill nice one guys
Supercarriers are not titans. and thanks to the log off fix they now have to either stay there and die or as many of these did, self destruct.
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baltec1
741
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Posted - 2012.02.29 14:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:and the titan was alone, and so dumb it had a spur omega plugged in instead of a slave omega
Word has it that it was ratting just before it got called up |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
sakurako wrote:
and this topic is not on titans it is on all super capital as the subject states Supercap Reballancing
Titans are supercaps which need reballancing. |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.03.01 16:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. |
baltec1
744
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Posted - 2012.03.01 17:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. And most of all, it benefits you.
What wouldnt?
We could easily spam jamming titan capitals or if CCP do nothing, pile it all into building titans and then drop 200 of them on everything.
AT least we fight for what is good for the rest of eve rather than letting hatred for one collection of player blind us. We are demanding our own titan fleet to get nerfed too afterall which makes it easier to attack us in turn. |
baltec1
744
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Posted - 2012.03.01 17:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote: CCP have several avenues of approach open to them on how to handle the Titan blob, including options that will not favour any particular group in game. Yet, if they choose to implement the very change that the Goons are openly campaigning for because it will benefit them the most, I am indeed calling that favouritsm, yes.
CCP are chosing to give us the players the most options possible to countering titans rather than forcing everyone to blob just one or two. This benefits everyone aside from the titan heavy brigade. I do find it interesting that you as a Goon seem very certain about the exact nature of the change to come. The EVE community has certainly not been told yet.
Two devs are currently working on titan tracking. |
baltec1
744
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Posted - 2012.03.01 17:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Two devs are currently working on titan tracking. I see. And perhaps you would like to share with the rest of the community what specific changes are going to be implemented?
They are going to increase it so they can hit the only ship they currently cant, frigates. |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.03.01 17:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Ah. Avoiding the question. Well, that is also an answer. "nobody knows" what is for certain is that titan tracking is not going to be the same as it is now believe it or not, Mittens doesn't feed us any data protected by NDA Have I accused him of doing that? But, tbh. I am still curious about the degree of certainty displayed by you and baltec on this issue, and also the instant backpedaling once questioned about that certainty. You did it a few days ago in another thread. Baltec today.
Whos backpedaling?
You dont need a PHD to see what two devs working on titam turret tracking will result in. |
baltec1
745
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Posted - 2012.03.01 18:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote:
"nooo please don't nerf titans they are expensive and thus balanced"
Plese notify me if you find any post made by me where I hold this point of view. I'll wait.
"EAF should not be able to jam a 60 bil ship" |
baltec1
745
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Posted - 2012.03.01 18:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Andski wrote: you account for cost as a balancing factor, that is exactly what you're saying
No it isnt you god damn sperging idiot.
Kinda is seeing how you say they shouldn't because of the price. |
baltec1
745
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Posted - 2012.03.01 18:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote: No. Its because it is a GOD DAMN FRIGATE. Do they teach you guys to be this moronic, or does it come natural?
Titans shooting destoryers is fine but a FRIGATE Shooting a TITAN!
THATS UNTHINKABLE!
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight! |
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baltec1
745
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Posted - 2012.03.01 18:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:baltec1 wrote:
How DARE a newish player think they can play any meaningful roll in a fight!
Yeah lets pretend that this game only consist of 9 year old vets and 3 month old newbs. Nothing in between.
Only those two groups can fly frigates? |
baltec1
751
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Posted - 2012.03.01 23:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:Yumi Sagara wrote:ILikeMarkets wrote:Wow... thats just... wow. Supercaps Online :) Indeed. Which should drive the point home to anyone with any sense at all. There is no way back to 2005. Sorry guys, that train left the station several years ago. Supers are here to stay. What CCP needs to do is develop the game based on that thruth. Any hope of balancing this rests with the will to expand the capital battlefield, more options on how to use capitals, counter capitals and handle capitals, not less. If not, supers will stay in the hands that currently have them, and it will be impossible/very very difficult to counter by anybody else.
It will be impossible to fight the old guard of 0.0 in capital ships online. Its impossible right now,hence why CCP are going after the one thing causing it rather than inventing a load of new new capitals which will cause further balance issues and result in the vast bulk of ships being compleatly useless along with the bulk of players who do not fly capitals. |
baltec1
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this point with you.
Only because you can't. |
baltec1
751
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lanasak wrote:oh and let me show you the very expensive and large ship that people use to get supercapitals into a system
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Cynosural Field Generator I Nice one! Interesting fit, seems to lack something...
A civ gun. Because if you're gonna die you might as well got on one mail |
baltec1
754
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. |
baltec1
755
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:baltec1 wrote:John Maynard Keynes wrote: It is also impossible to fight the goon blob right now.
I agree that supercaps and especially titans need balancing. However, turning them into giant portable stargates is not the solution.
Subcap blobs are not invincible and never have been. There has been much bigger fleets in the past which have been beaten. How? With bigger blobs? Or with a titan blob? Oh and you seem to worry a lot about small alliances. Could you sir please tell us how a small alliance could successfufully take some CFC systems? And BTW, supercap blobs are not invincible as well as it was proven recently. Some hints: - Jihad Dread Spam - an Supercap fleet withough proper subcap support is easily beaten by a subcap blob - with other supercaps if you have the balls to bring them P.S: The idea with ewar frigs is not bad though as long as a single ewar frigs is not able to jam a titan infinitely (something a falcon can do with a subcap). Which means you would need like 10 ewar frigs to jam a titan effectively.
Please point out this recent titan welp.
Also;
-welpdreads do not work, it has been tried. -AAA caught a titan fleet that had no support. AAA had to abandon the fight because they couldn't scratch them dispite outnumbering the titans 4 to 1 while the titans were picking them off. -the side with the most titans wins, it is pointless to try when outnumbered.
If you knew your eve history you would know that smaller alliances used to beat big ones right up untill the supercap buffs. |
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