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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2012.02.23 15:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm doing some proof-of-concept work right now which involves exploring possible changes we could make to the combat data we deliver via the API.
What sorts of data could we provide to make killboards better? I'm not really worrying about technical constraints at this stage, I'm just trying to build a list of interesting data we could be providing, so let your imaginations run a little bit wild!
Thanks, -Greyscale |
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DarkXeRoX
Biohazzard TaskForce
8
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Posted - 2012.02.23 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atm most kill stats only show what was on the killmails wich in most cases doesnt tell a full story on the actual fight.
What be nice is to know what was on grid at the time of the fight so that 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not lose anything actualy shows as 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not just a simple 10ppl ganking 2 ships randomly.
I know this is prolly a near impossible thing to do and most likely cause more stress to the servers to add this sort of information to killmails n stuff.
Killboards have multiple functions, one being the most common one to brag but its a nice place to see what your corp/alliance has killed and lost and if possible to see what sorta fights they had. But without losing anything u cant realy see what they where actualy fighting.
If there was a way to give full fight details to show on killboards that would basicly make the killboard complete.
i cant think of anything else |
Shandir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 17:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Full combat information - not just the weapon that did most damage per player (or whatever algorithm you use to determine which weapon you use), but rather every weapon/offensive module that was used on the victim.
Correct ship information - not the ship the player was in at the moment of killmail creation, but rather the ship the player was in when they used each weapon displayed.
- Yes, this probably means you'll need to generate killmails pro-actively (when PvP combat is initiated), rather than reactively(when PvP combat ends in a kill) |
Dragonaire
Corax. The Big Dirty
33
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
For the attackers it would be nice if the damage was broke down into the multiple weapon types used. Right now it may return that your single light drone did 10k when it was took out after it's first shot by a smart bomb and it was your turrets that did all the damage This would also help people really see which of their weapon systems are the best plus would help victims plan for their next encounter with the same group. This would be really useful during after action reviews when planning electronic warfare or targeting priority. Finds camping stations from the inside much easier. Designer of Yapeal for Eve API. Check out the Yapeal PHP API library thread for more information. |
Jarnis McPieksu
350
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten. |
Peter Powers
FinFleet Raiden.
61
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:
Verifying Killmails, there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not. We currently have Killlogs that allow us to import mails if single players or of corporations, we do not get kills through the API that one of the players of such entity is only involved in. Quite often players, corps or alliances work together on a basis that span over the horizon of those, meaning If for example two alliances hotdrop a third together, we end up with our own api keys not covering our own involvement. Sharing the API keys on a level where everyone has all keys that are relevant to someone who might or might not get involved with your kills is a nightmare. The current "solution" is to feed from other killboards, which works, but allows for injecting fakes, and even worse, if you inject one fake it will distribute to a huge chunk of all killboards, cause to some extend most killboards are interlinked somehow.
Time The timestamps on Killmails are to the minute, it would be better if it was to the second.
Localisation / renaming stuff this is one of the largest annoyances to killboards. to be able to use pasted mails we have to parse the copy-paste killmails which with all the localisation going on already is horrible. You guys regulary changing names of items is even worse.
Unknown/None Killmails over the years have not been consistent what to report if someone is not in alliance for example. Even worse, the words that have been used to mark this state resolve through the name resolution in the API to characters.
Unknown Weapons Sometimes its not clear what weapon was used by the character, sometimes it even contains a reference to the ship rather than to the weapon. This is crap.
EVE releases Changes to names or new items are not available *before* an eve extension comes out that change stuff, so killboards get ****** on those releases. We could use a datadump *ahead* of the patch so we can prepare our killboards to be ready to an eve extension.
Location The one "more data" thing i can see: It would be awesome to be able to know where someone was in the system when he died, but i guess thats
Thats all i can think off right now, but i guess i can come up with a few more things when i have some time. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:
Verifying Killmails, there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not.
private key signed killmails
So they can be verified with the public key. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1379
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've asked CCP Masterplan several times, but please put the x,y,z coords of the ship that died on the KM. Bonus points for the involved parties coords.
Having that data would let people build pretty flash (or html 5) animations of what happened in the battle. Vote Two step for CSM 7 CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog |
BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
116
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
-Correct shiptype, while it is funny to see pods killing ships with 1400's, we all know this didn't really happen. (or did it!)
-Correct weapon information, it seems like the most common weapon type used in fights is 'Unknown'. I wish I could find some of these on market, they seem popular. (Peter Powers, although I had this in mind before I even read his post)
-More weapon information? Show what damage was done with missiles, with guns, with drones, what ewar modules were activated on the target, etc.
-LOGI! Logisitics pilots involved with killmails (amount repped or something, I'm not sure, there was a whole thread on this wa while back).
- +1 for the idea of all ships on grid being involved in a battle, not just the two that were ganked (DarkXeRoX)
- +1 for timestamps to the second (Peter Powers)
- +1 for location (where in the solar system he died, xyz coords, something, Peter Powers)
A question for you, out of curiosity Grayscale, do you guys keep all old killmails? Our API only fetches back so far (50 I think it is). I'm just wondering if CCP throws out old killmails that can no longer be fetched, or if there is a server somewhere that dutifully logs and keeps every killmail from all time? |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Amount of damage dealt by the 'victim'.
Amount repped by all parties (logis or self).
Sum of the skillpoints for both columns.
Who took the first shot and length of engagement.
I've also always wanted to see a "date commissioned" on ships... back to when they were assembled and rigged. Wonder how many ships are out there flying around since 2005?
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PsyKzz
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is going to cause hate, but i'm getting this point out there now.
- Remove killmails and leave them API only. A lot of applications use the api already and with eve online is moving on, by moving things away from user input will can reduce the need for verification and errors.
- As peter said with localisation, remove item names and use IDs... The rest of the API provides details in this method and we can mix in with a eve static database to get the item names.
- A more accurate damage reading. I dont know why / if this is limited on the server, but in an ideal world, being able to tell what weapon did what type of damage (eg em/ thermal ) and exactly how much damage was done.
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote: Who took the first shot and length of engagement.
I also think this is a great idea, although it could be somewhat troublesome. Meh. |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.
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PsyKzz
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.
Personally i disagree with your reason, but the idea of knowing if the cyno was active at time would be good. Also knowing how burnt out modules are or if they were online / offline. Meh. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3275
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Damage Time Lines
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Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
22
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Posted - 2012.02.24 00:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Perhaps showing whether the parties involved and the PvP was part of a situation by way of a wardec. |
Yashir Wong
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 01:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Battle reports that take who was in fleet into account. This way Battle reports with more than 2 parties involved don't look like a mess. |
Cyerus
Galactic Dominion Eternal Strife
24
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Show involved Support ships (like Logistics) on the kill.
When a ship is receiving some kind of bonus (shield transfer, remote armor, remote sebo, etc) that ship and it's pilot should be shown. A lot of killmails currently pretend to have been an awesome fight, while instead receiving remote support. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'd like to see some way of seeing whether a podkill forced the victim to lose SP as a result of having an insufficient clone. I'm not sure how comfortable you guys are with giving SP totals, but even something like Destroyed: X00,000 SP or Destroyed: Jove Carrier 5 or something like that would be hilariously awesome. |
Indy Rider
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
18
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
When someone is podded, I would find it interesting to somehow see the Clone Grade that was lost. |
Liitar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about you focus on making killmails accurate and not just utterly random (particularly in lag)
That said, if we are going to rock the CCP line of "FORGET FIXING THINGS, JUST ADD MORE FEATURES THAT DON'T WORK" I suppose repping amount for logi ships would be boss |
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Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is.
I'd like to look on the Eve website and see which top 100 or 1,000 individuals:
a) had the moth deathblows in a week b) participated in the most kills c) killed the most isk/lost the most isk d) scored the most 'points' (although I'm still not sure how the killmails calculate points, whatever they are) e) had the highest kill to loss ratio, isk killes to loss ratio
And for corporations and alliances:
a) Who killed the most, destroyed the most isk, etc. b) Which corps killed the most per member. Which corps killed the least per member. c) rankings for most sovereignty gained, lost or held
I want to phone my brother in law in the midwest and chest thump about how I dominated him in the previous week and his crappy corp blows.
That data is all there. Give us rankings!
p.s. I love the idea of a dps graph or timeline from beginning of engagement to the kill. Player A took 40,000 damage in 4 seconds by 20 players versus 40,000 damage against 20 players over 5 minutes are totally different fights.
edit /page |
Shade Millith
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten.
Very much this. This will have two pro's.
Dedicated Logi pilots will get recognition, and those that use logi will have the logi they used listed. |
Henry Jennings
White Star Line 2010 GIANTSBANE.
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pod's clone grade should be included in kill mail, and would give pod kills an actual value. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is.
Opt in, of course. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shade Millith wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten. Very much this. This will have two pro's. Dedicated Logi pilots will get recognition, and those that use logi will have the logi they used listed.
Most damage reps per hour logged in would be a great stat.... differentiating pve vs pvp damage of course.
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Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is. Opt in, of course.
Maybe you could explain to me your thought process? is it just that you don't play Eve to kill other people? noob tears don't lubricate your psyche? I'm just curious, really.
And, I of course, agree. You should be able to /anonymous your stats if you feel the desire to. |
Angsty Teenager
Sinister Elite
47
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Official Killboard, please.
API verification doesn't work when you're not the one getting the killing blow, which is often. |
ShadowandLight
Mostly Always Dangerous Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Probably the only thing I really care about is finding a method to get friendly logistics to show up on enemy km's.
You will a lot of HTFU responses about it, but the simple fact is many people refuse to fly logistics because they never get any e-honor cause they never show up on KM's.
Basically, If you rep someone who kills someone else, you should get some in game "killmail" for it. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
368
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
* Fixed damage numbers. * Fixed involved parties in large fights (have 900 people bash a TCU, onlu 200 or so get on the mail). * Fixed POS killmails (shoot all the POS structures, you only get on like half of them. Shoot the stick only, you get on all the mails.) * Logistics on killmails. * Scouts on killmails (yes, good luck). * "Kill"mails for reinforcing structures. * Involved parties persisting even after a jump. * Killmails for selfdetructed ships. Selfdestruction should be noted on the killmail. * Send killmails to more people. Currently if the victim and the last hitter both disappear, there is no killmail, even if 100 other people are involved. Send a mail to everybody who got on the kill. |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adding to the call for logis on killmails. |
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Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Probably the only thing I really care about is finding a method to get friendly logistics to show up on enemy km's.
You will a lot of HTFU responses about it, but the simple fact is many people refuse to fly logistics because they never get any e-honor cause they never show up on KM's.
Basically, If you rep someone who kills someone else, you should get some in game "killmail" for it.
The archetype 'healers' should get half the 'points' at least for a kill. They enable it to happen.
With that said, I still don't understand how the killboards assign points. Is it the ship killed or hte skill points of the player?? I don't understand.
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
155
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
KB points aren't on CCP's end. "Points" are determined by the developer of the individual KB.
I would like to see logis and gang boosts appear on KMs. The reasoning should be obvious.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
551
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
I approve of fixing the "None"s and "Unknowns", damage values, verification, logis, and other weird quirks, but...
Killboards need less information, not more. Remove the fitting of the victim altogether. I don't know what it is about the giant fiery explosion of a ship that tells you about exactly what modules it had on it (even those that were destroyed) when you couldn't do the same when the ship was intact. In the same vein of thought, adding implants onto podmails was also wrong, despite how fun it is to laugh at the poor sop who just lost a +5 set. Ed: Showing the dropped mods is fine.
This change would remove efficiency grinding as a reason to PvP (and a motivation to blob), and promote more innovative fitting and more risk-taking.
(Ready for flames) Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is. Opt in, of course. Maybe you could explain to me your thought process? is it just that you don't play Eve to kill other people? noob tears don't lubricate your psyche? I'm just curious, really. And, I of course, agree. You should be able to /anonymous your stats if you feel the desire to.
Killboards reveal intel.
Like where you've been killing folks. Or what kind of folks have been dying in a particular system. If it's on for everyone, that's a huge faucet of intel.
Aside from that, I can just hear the creis of outrage, echoing back through time, if it's not optional. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:* Fixed damage numbers. * Fixed involved parties in large fights (have 900 people bash a TCU, onlu 200 or so get on the mail). * Fixed POS killmails (shoot all the POS structures, you only get on like half of them. Shoot the stick only, you get on all the mails.) * Logistics on killmails. * Scouts on killmails (yes, good luck). * "Kill"mails for reinforcing structures. * Involved parties persisting even after a jump. * Killmails for selfdetructed ships. Selfdestruction should be noted on the killmail. * Send killmails to more people. Currently if the victim and the last hitter both disappear, there is no killmail, even if 100 other people are involved. Send a mail to everybody who got on the kill. * Get everybody involved in the fight on a mail, not just the three tards with two racks full of sebos.
* Ideally, replace the individual killmail system with a complex battle report system, which enumerates all the involved parties, kills, and losses on a fleet/alliance level, not individually.
Maybe some way to assign roles (non-functional, purely information) in a fleet, so you can mark someone as a scout, or logi, so they get mentioned on any kill mail from that fleet? FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Melissa Blick
Silver Aria Important Internet Spaceship League
7
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
For the victim: All effects at the time the ship exploded (# of points, scrams, neuts, webs, ewar, cyno, cloak, gang boosts etc) Speed and sig radius of the ship
For each player involved: Fleet name, names of FC, WC, SC (likely controversial) List all offensive effects applied to target and associated damage (or cap drain)
Turn the killmail into an extensible XML object, so you can easily push upgrades while retaining backwards compatibility. Use item-id's instead of item names. The eve client should include a killmail viewer utility that behaves similar to ship fittings. If you get killed, you should be able to drag your killmail on to an intel channel where everyone can see it. You should be able to right-click and save a fitting from a KM linked in a chat. You should be able to right-click on each mod in a KM and look up the price.
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Gary Hagon
Angry Hobos Interstellar Hobos
0
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Posted - 2012.02.24 07:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: What sorts of data could we provide to make killboards better?
From the work I have done on EDK over the years, here is a list of what I would like to see from the API.
Correct the unknown ship issues. On occasion, when a pilot was involved in an attack and then killed, it appears on the kill mail as his capsule doing the damage! If he was also poded, it would show as unknown.
Fix the damage records. Once I was attacked by a dread, I know I had taken over 10 minutes of abuse (Damn is siege, yay for triage!) and eventually died. It reported as me taking 800k damage. I knew this wasn't right as I was just under my maximum tank for 10 minutes (8k dps tank for 4 min(without overheat), so he was doing about 5-6k dps = 3.6 million damage for 10 min)
Fix the weapon field Often it will say you used your ship, or a piece of ammunition to kill your enemy. What did they do? Hop out of the ship and beat them to death with a piece of titanium sabot! Did they ram their ship into them till he died? I want what turret they used! Why not have it so that it shows up at "weapon that causes damage : ammunition used". For weapons that use no ammo but damage or warp disrupt, just go straight up and say "warp disrupter II". I can elaborate more...
Fix the loot... If they had a Secure container named "I hate you" I think it should be in the killmail, same with bookmarks. Why not, for containers "I hate you : Giant Secure Container" and for bookmarks, "I hate you : Bookmark"
As I see it, the information the api gives on killmails are great, but they need to be made more accurate. Fix what you have, then see about making something new!
On another note, I would love to have the IGB upgraded to use java and adobe flash!
Gary |
Project 69
Rennfeuer Curatores Veritatis Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
- for the fun of it.... killed crew members, we know ships don't only run on love
- BPO/BPC ?
- Add a battlerecorder, add link to the battle of that ship
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Peter Powers
FinFleet Raiden.
61
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 08:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
chat me up on fanfest, i've a few ideas how to solve some of the problems i mentioned earlier. |
Khanh'rhh
One Man Rodgering
675
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 09:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi Logi !!
a) To stop the need to mail ***** b) To stop so many highsec failtards getting a "solo kill" when in reality they had 4 guardians, incoming cap and tracking links. This should all be shown so we can point and laugh.
edit: perhaps also show what character / ship was applying active boosts at the time? I have no problem with people using ganglinks, but being able to see this fact is useful. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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Karbowiak
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2012.02.24 09:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Personally i think the way mails are now are almost perfect, more information would clutter it up too much, less would make it harder to generate stats.
The few fixes / additions i'd like to see tho is:
1. A killmail hash, so they can be verified if they were not posted via the API (Just a yes/no is needed) 2. Timestamps that go to the second, not the minute 3. Pod's clone grade 4. Show if a BPO or a BPC is either one (Currently, it doesn't show this on the raw mail, only via API)
This one isn't really about the killmails themselves, but more of an API thing in general 5. The Item API, should make it so we can look up id, description, etc. etc. etc. via ID _AND_ Name (Currently only ID works) - This way we pretty much don't need to rely that much on the datadump being given to us beforehand
To everyone else: It isn't doable showing Logistic ships on the mail, due to them not firing on the victim, so to all of you who want that, forget it. Neither is it doable showing everyone in a fleet and whatnot, mostly cause the raw killmail doesn't show this, nor should it.
All of this is up to the individual killboard software of handling.. So please, if you have no knowledge of the RAW KILLMAIL, but only what you'd like a killboard to show, stop posting, and start telling the EVE-ID developers what they should concentrate on (Or look at Kingboard, and start coding, or throwing ideas at Peter Powers and myself on what to put into it) |
Lyhanee Rinah
Tactical Warfare Assault Team Sublime Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
- What was in the Ship Maintenance Hanger of a Carrier
- What was build inside a CSAA when destroyed.
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Katarina Reid
Jump.Jump.Jump.
129
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
logi and boosters |
Shellac Brookdale
RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 11:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Currently its not easily possible to figure out the exact parties. Thats why people came up with solutions like the battle summary "doctor". There should be a way for ccp to create teams automatically based on standings between alliances. Or at least introduce a flag such as friendly=true to the attackers list so those can be discarded if thats required. |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 11:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Most important issue for me would be the logi's but don't limit it to logis'. As a wormhole dweller, i see a lot of fights were a couple of scouts play key-roles but never get on grid of the actual fight. I'm sure this is the same for nullsec where you need to get good warpins around the battlefield. I'm not sure yet how that would work though. For a logi it's `easy` because they have active mods on atleast one of the battles participants, but a scout doens't. Would be VERY nice if a solution is at all possible.
And this one would very welcome aswell:
Peter Powers wrote:Quite often players, corps or alliances work together on a basis that span over the horizon of those, meaning If for example two alliances hotdrop a third together, we end up with our own api keys not covering our own involvement. Sharing the API keys on a level where everyone has all keys that are relevant to someone who might or might not get involved with your kills is a nightmare. |
Captain Thunk
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2012.02.24 12:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Change damage to a signed number - weapons do positive damage, repair does negative damage. This gets logis onto mails, but most importantly ranks them as damage dealers are atm.
Add 'extra' bays and the items contained within. Fuel Bays, Ship Mainetenance Hangars, Corporate Hangars. Essentially everything is already in place, mails already show certain containers such as cargo and drones, its just the missing items aren't listed yet.
Timestamps to the second, not rounded down to minute.
X,Y,Z position of victim ship in system. I raised this before sometime between mid 2009 and 2010, it was even raised with the CSM by Mazzilliu. I can't find the thread anymore though I did find a wiki reference: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Common_API_requests_%28CSM%29 I also found the video Mazzilliu produced to help explain what it is and why it's a good idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6Zm24l3Xo
Most of the work needs to be done by 3rd party devs, but even the lazy ones can cycle through each celestial in a system from mapDenormalize and get the shortest Euclidean metric to see what Celestial the ships are nearest.
Already with the recent API additions for x, y, z positions on assets we can reproduce a POS eg: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/test.php And various representations of a system have been available for a while eg: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/test_new.php?solarID=30001321 (I recommend Chrome or something very fast with JS and canvas)
As some progress with locations has been made with the API, I'm optimistic this may now be added to killmails. Just the victim will do, though it would be nice to have the positions of involved parties too - there will of course be minor things for developers to watch out for. The position of the attacker will either have too be the position he was in when he last struck the victim or the position he was in when the victim exploded. In large fleet fights there could be good reason for this leading to some strange results. (If under fire, the attacker may have warped to save himself so appears 30AU away from what he was shooting, that kind of thing) |
Welsige
SregginWaffe Elite Space Guild
1
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Posted - 2012.02.24 12:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
PsyKzz wrote:This is going to cause hate, but i'm getting this point out there now.
- Remove killmails and leave them API only. A lot of applications use the api already and with eve online is moving on, by moving things away from user input will can reduce the need for verification and errors.
- As peter said with localisation, remove item names and use IDs... The rest of the API provides details in this method and we can mix in with a eve static database to get the item names.
- A more accurate damage reading. I dont know why / if this is limited on the server, but in an ideal world, being able to tell what weapon did what type of damage (eg em/ thermal ) and exactly how much damage was done.
I also think this is a great idea, although it could be somewhat troublesome.
This.
I dont see why in hell killmails are needed. Store the data, allow access to it thru the API for third party app killboards. Killmails are just silly.
If the volume of data is the issue (wich should not be since th ekm's are verifyable), keep just "x" months of data and leave the responsability of keeping historical data for the 3rs party apps.
Also, include in the killmails the relative standings of killer and killed, that might enable better battle reports by allowing apps to more accuratelly separate sides in a fight. |
Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
66
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Posted - 2012.02.24 13:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Logis on KMs.
X,Y,Z of the kill also. |
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
3
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Posted - 2012.02.24 14:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten. It would seem to me that this is an excellent reason not to put logis into kms. Let the stupid km-whoring logis fit their guns and let their corps deal with them. |
Suitonia
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
49
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Posted - 2012.02.24 16:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Logistics / Remote Assistance & Gang Warfare links. Insufficient Clone notices on killing someone with an non-updated clone, and what skill they lost.
Some other interesting information would be local count at time of death. |
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Mad Hops
Osiris Division Hello Kitty Safety Beach Patrol
18
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Posted - 2012.02.24 17:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
What would be ideal is if API would track every killmail a pilot was on rather than just laying the final blow on. Of course I'm not sure how plausible this is.
Also, why can API only give kill log information to a single party? Even creating a separate API key for a different killboard results in an error. This is extremely limiting and should be fixed immediately.
I know you said this thread was to focus on non-technical stuff, but I, along with thousands of other pilots, would prefer your efforts to go into these major issues before adding other things. |
Asban
Panda Inc
5
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Posted - 2012.02.24 19:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
OMG give the API everything. Seriously, throw in the whole kitchen sink if a program ask for it. I want to have battle breakdowns where you can tell from landing blows when people enter/left the field. I want to know if there was a period when points broke and the victim had an opportunity to escape. If you throw in the whole kitchen sink creative people can do sooooo much more than simply giving you two columns of ships marking which one's were lost side by side for battle reports.
Give us range, amount of damage, transversal, time stamps on it all. I guarantee if this is made available there will be automated battle reports detailing ACTUAL battles in way more detail in a month or two.
In addition this would allow clever apps to start diagnosing losses automatically for players. Identify mistakes, moments when you could have escaped, or your victim, etc etc. JUST GIVE US EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ON ENCOUNTERS (if a program asks for it). Seriously, the more data you give, the more creative people can be.
The people in this thread saying "they're fine just add X" aren't thinking big enough. GIVE THE API EVERYTHING and make it timestamped so entire battles can be analyzed and a proper postmortem done. |
Asban
Panda Inc
5
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Posted - 2012.02.24 20:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Maybe I'll try this again a little more calmly and clearly (sorry about the caps and excitement).
Putting technical difficulties aside, let me sketch out what would be pie in the sky, imho.
Every cycle of any mod that affects the ship on any kill should be accessible from the API. Each of these cycles should have timestamps, and all log information possibly available (locations of ships, orientations, speeds, shield/armor/structure/cap levels). For each of these cycles, we should be able to request the 'grid' for that cycle's start, which would contain the positions, orientations and speeds of every ship on the grid of the destroyed ship.
I think that would be enough to build an incredibly fine grained battle report. Very quickly you would see battle analysis tools being built. It would allow FCs to revisit major skirmishes and take close looks at their pilots and the roles they needed to carry out and how well their side did, as well as examine the strategies of their enemies.
Furthermore, battle report authors would have an unprecedented look from which to draw insightful breakdowns of large fleet engagements that they otherwise simply don't have the time and perspective to capture and recount in hindsight. Additionally, folks could start building automated battle reporters. Imagine battle reports far more descriptive than the ones we currently see that are just columns of involved parties.
Obviously this is a lot, but you asked us to ignore technical considerations. The goal of a KM API revamp should be to allow a machine or a person to revisit an entire engagement and examine it from critical angles and tell the engagement's story. A greatly expanded KM API would really be very exciting.
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umaya
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.25 00:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Show all the stuff that got destroyed on the ship, including potential cargo hangers, ship hangers, ore bays etc.. etc.. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
238
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Posted - 2012.02.25 00:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
- Logis on killmails please - Clone tiers/lost SP would be cool - It would be nice to see the insurance type/tier purchased on the ship or the amount the pilot receives from insurance when it explodes to see how much isk the pilot truly lost for losing that ship.
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Sally Seashells
Space Farm Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.25 00:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
i think it would be interesting to see damage resisted (my tank is uber, except when they use thermal), ewar effects applied at time of kill, standings between assailants and victim. |
Wukulo
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2012.02.25 02:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
# of shots fired per party
time to lock
distance from target at time of kill
killer's ship status at time of kill. IE it's shields/armor/structure/cap
# of drones controlled by killer
friendly logi actually getting some damned credit
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Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
643
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 21:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
I'd be happy with just X,Y,Z coordinates |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
643
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 21:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
OH also SP lost on clones (if applicable) |
Vile EnEon
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
8
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Posted - 2012.02.26 16:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:Location The one "more data" thing i can see: It would be awesome to be able to know where someone was in the system when he died.
This, knowing where or near which celestial a fight took place would be very useful.
IF a pilot likes to play station games, or fight near gates, or only gets kills in dead space pockets is all information that could make for good intel.
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Annika Petrovich
HONOURABLE SPACE WARRIORS
1
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Posted - 2012.02.27 06:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
+1 for including logistics (and other remote rep/boost) on killmails |
Squizz Caphinator
Woopatang Happy Endings
31
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Posted - 2012.02.27 16:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Most everyone has ignored the fact that you referred to API and not generated killmails. Also, Karbowiak pretty much already said everything I would have said. In addition, I'd like to see available via the KillLog API:
- Ship insurance
- Alliance level API
It has already been mentioned giving the killmail to everyone involved, while I understand the performance issues this might generate, I have to say I'd love to see this as well.
Thank you! http://evewho.com - Alliance and Corporation Member Listings http://evechatter.com - Free Alliance and Corporation forums for all. |
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