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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
567
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Posted - 2012.02.23 15:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm doing some proof-of-concept work right now which involves exploring possible changes we could make to the combat data we deliver via the API.
What sorts of data could we provide to make killboards better? I'm not really worrying about technical constraints at this stage, I'm just trying to build a list of interesting data we could be providing, so let your imaginations run a little bit wild!
Thanks, -Greyscale |
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DarkXeRoX
Biohazzard TaskForce
8
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Posted - 2012.02.23 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atm most kill stats only show what was on the killmails wich in most cases doesnt tell a full story on the actual fight.
What be nice is to know what was on grid at the time of the fight so that 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not lose anything actualy shows as 10 ppl killing 2 things out of a 20man gang and not just a simple 10ppl ganking 2 ships randomly.
I know this is prolly a near impossible thing to do and most likely cause more stress to the servers to add this sort of information to killmails n stuff.
Killboards have multiple functions, one being the most common one to brag but its a nice place to see what your corp/alliance has killed and lost and if possible to see what sorta fights they had. But without losing anything u cant realy see what they where actualy fighting.
If there was a way to give full fight details to show on killboards that would basicly make the killboard complete.
i cant think of anything else |
Shandir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Full combat information - not just the weapon that did most damage per player (or whatever algorithm you use to determine which weapon you use), but rather every weapon/offensive module that was used on the victim.
Correct ship information - not the ship the player was in at the moment of killmail creation, but rather the ship the player was in when they used each weapon displayed.
- Yes, this probably means you'll need to generate killmails pro-actively (when PvP combat is initiated), rather than reactively(when PvP combat ends in a kill) |
Dragonaire
Corax. The Big Dirty
33
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
For the attackers it would be nice if the damage was broke down into the multiple weapon types used. Right now it may return that your single light drone did 10k when it was took out after it's first shot by a smart bomb and it was your turrets that did all the damage This would also help people really see which of their weapon systems are the best plus would help victims plan for their next encounter with the same group. This would be really useful during after action reviews when planning electronic warfare or targeting priority. Finds camping stations from the inside much easier. Designer of Yapeal for Eve API. Check out the Yapeal PHP API library thread for more information. |
Jarnis McPieksu
350
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten. |
Peter Powers
FinFleet Raiden.
61
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:
Verifying Killmails, there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not. We currently have Killlogs that allow us to import mails if single players or of corporations, we do not get kills through the API that one of the players of such entity is only involved in. Quite often players, corps or alliances work together on a basis that span over the horizon of those, meaning If for example two alliances hotdrop a third together, we end up with our own api keys not covering our own involvement. Sharing the API keys on a level where everyone has all keys that are relevant to someone who might or might not get involved with your kills is a nightmare. The current "solution" is to feed from other killboards, which works, but allows for injecting fakes, and even worse, if you inject one fake it will distribute to a huge chunk of all killboards, cause to some extend most killboards are interlinked somehow.
Time The timestamps on Killmails are to the minute, it would be better if it was to the second.
Localisation / renaming stuff this is one of the largest annoyances to killboards. to be able to use pasted mails we have to parse the copy-paste killmails which with all the localisation going on already is horrible. You guys regulary changing names of items is even worse.
Unknown/None Killmails over the years have not been consistent what to report if someone is not in alliance for example. Even worse, the words that have been used to mark this state resolve through the name resolution in the API to characters.
Unknown Weapons Sometimes its not clear what weapon was used by the character, sometimes it even contains a reference to the ship rather than to the weapon. This is crap.
EVE releases Changes to names or new items are not available *before* an eve extension comes out that change stuff, so killboards get ****** on those releases. We could use a datadump *ahead* of the patch so we can prepare our killboards to be ready to an eve extension.
Location The one "more data" thing i can see: It would be awesome to be able to know where someone was in the system when he died, but i guess thats
Thats all i can think off right now, but i guess i can come up with a few more things when i have some time. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:i know you asked about what additional data is needed, but i'd rather like to point out a few problems we are having. As you can see most of those problems are based on manual posted classic killmail:
Verifying Killmails, there is no process that allows us to verify killmails. Now one could assume that only allowing Killmails synced through the API would solve the problem, but it does not.
private key signed killmails
So they can be verified with the public key. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1379
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Posted - 2012.02.23 18:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've asked CCP Masterplan several times, but please put the x,y,z coords of the ship that died on the KM. Bonus points for the involved parties coords.
Having that data would let people build pretty flash (or html 5) animations of what happened in the battle. Vote Two step for CSM 7 CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog |
BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
116
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
-Correct shiptype, while it is funny to see pods killing ships with 1400's, we all know this didn't really happen. (or did it!)
-Correct weapon information, it seems like the most common weapon type used in fights is 'Unknown'. I wish I could find some of these on market, they seem popular. (Peter Powers, although I had this in mind before I even read his post)
-More weapon information? Show what damage was done with missiles, with guns, with drones, what ewar modules were activated on the target, etc.
-LOGI! Logisitics pilots involved with killmails (amount repped or something, I'm not sure, there was a whole thread on this wa while back).
- +1 for the idea of all ships on grid being involved in a battle, not just the two that were ganked (DarkXeRoX)
- +1 for timestamps to the second (Peter Powers)
- +1 for location (where in the solar system he died, xyz coords, something, Peter Powers)
A question for you, out of curiosity Grayscale, do you guys keep all old killmails? Our API only fetches back so far (50 I think it is). I'm just wondering if CCP throws out old killmails that can no longer be fetched, or if there is a server somewhere that dutifully logs and keeps every killmail from all time? |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Amount of damage dealt by the 'victim'.
Amount repped by all parties (logis or self).
Sum of the skillpoints for both columns.
Who took the first shot and length of engagement.
I've also always wanted to see a "date commissioned" on ships... back to when they were assembled and rigged. Wonder how many ships are out there flying around since 2005?
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PsyKzz
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is going to cause hate, but i'm getting this point out there now.
- Remove killmails and leave them API only. A lot of applications use the api already and with eve online is moving on, by moving things away from user input will can reduce the need for verification and errors.
- As peter said with localisation, remove item names and use IDs... The rest of the API provides details in this method and we can mix in with a eve static database to get the item names.
- A more accurate damage reading. I dont know why / if this is limited on the server, but in an ideal world, being able to tell what weapon did what type of damage (eg em/ thermal ) and exactly how much damage was done.
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote: Who took the first shot and length of engagement.
I also think this is a great idea, although it could be somewhat troublesome. Meh. |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.
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PsyKzz
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.02.23 20:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:There should also be a way to flag characters who were helpless holding a cyno, lost a ship and then also podded. A character's combat log should have a column specific to cyno kills so we can see who the people are running around npc space with 75% of their kills being defenseless.
Personally i disagree with your reason, but the idea of knowing if the cyno was active at time would be good. Also knowing how burnt out modules are or if they were online / offline. Meh. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3275
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Damage Time Lines
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Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
22
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Posted - 2012.02.24 00:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Perhaps showing whether the parties involved and the PvP was part of a situation by way of a wardec. |
Yashir Wong
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
3
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Battle reports that take who was in fleet into account. This way Battle reports with more than 2 parties involved don't look like a mess. |
Cyerus
Galactic Dominion Eternal Strife
24
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Show involved Support ships (like Logistics) on the kill.
When a ship is receiving some kind of bonus (shield transfer, remote armor, remote sebo, etc) that ship and it's pilot should be shown. A lot of killmails currently pretend to have been an awesome fight, while instead receiving remote support. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.02.24 01:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'd like to see some way of seeing whether a podkill forced the victim to lose SP as a result of having an insufficient clone. I'm not sure how comfortable you guys are with giving SP totals, but even something like Destroyed: X00,000 SP or Destroyed: Jove Carrier 5 or something like that would be hilariously awesome. |
Indy Rider
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
18
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
When someone is podded, I would find it interesting to somehow see the Clone Grade that was lost. |
Liitar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about you focus on making killmails accurate and not just utterly random (particularly in lag)
That said, if we are going to rock the CCP line of "FORGET FIXING THINGS, JUST ADD MORE FEATURES THAT DON'T WORK" I suppose repping amount for logi ships would be boss |
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Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is.
I'd like to look on the Eve website and see which top 100 or 1,000 individuals:
a) had the moth deathblows in a week b) participated in the most kills c) killed the most isk/lost the most isk d) scored the most 'points' (although I'm still not sure how the killmails calculate points, whatever they are) e) had the highest kill to loss ratio, isk killes to loss ratio
And for corporations and alliances:
a) Who killed the most, destroyed the most isk, etc. b) Which corps killed the most per member. Which corps killed the least per member. c) rankings for most sovereignty gained, lost or held
I want to phone my brother in law in the midwest and chest thump about how I dominated him in the previous week and his crappy corp blows.
That data is all there. Give us rankings!
p.s. I love the idea of a dps graph or timeline from beginning of engagement to the kill. Player A took 40,000 damage in 4 seconds by 20 players versus 40,000 damage against 20 players over 5 minutes are totally different fights.
edit /page |
Shade Millith
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten.
Very much this. This will have two pro's.
Dedicated Logi pilots will get recognition, and those that use logi will have the logi they used listed. |
Henry Jennings
White Star Line 2010 GIANTSBANE.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pod's clone grade should be included in kill mail, and would give pod kills an actual value. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
243
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is.
Opt in, of course. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shade Millith wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten. Very much this. This will have two pro's. Dedicated Logi pilots will get recognition, and those that use logi will have the logi they used listed.
Most damage reps per hour logged in would be a great stat.... differentiating pve vs pvp damage of course.
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Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
13
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I think in general I'd like a scoreboard. An official killboards, of sorts, even though I realize this is controversial. I don't know why it is, but everyone just tells me it is. Opt in, of course.
Maybe you could explain to me your thought process? is it just that you don't play Eve to kill other people? noob tears don't lubricate your psyche? I'm just curious, really.
And, I of course, agree. You should be able to /anonymous your stats if you feel the desire to. |
Angsty Teenager
Sinister Elite
47
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Official Killboard, please.
API verification doesn't work when you're not the one getting the killing blow, which is often. |
ShadowandLight
Mostly Always Dangerous Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
59
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Probably the only thing I really care about is finding a method to get friendly logistics to show up on enemy km's.
You will a lot of HTFU responses about it, but the simple fact is many people refuse to fly logistics because they never get any e-honor cause they never show up on KM's.
Basically, If you rep someone who kills someone else, you should get some in game "killmail" for it. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
368
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
* Fixed damage numbers. * Fixed involved parties in large fights (have 900 people bash a TCU, onlu 200 or so get on the mail). * Fixed POS killmails (shoot all the POS structures, you only get on like half of them. Shoot the stick only, you get on all the mails.) * Logistics on killmails. * Scouts on killmails (yes, good luck). * "Kill"mails for reinforcing structures. * Involved parties persisting even after a jump. * Killmails for selfdetructed ships. Selfdestruction should be noted on the killmail. * Send killmails to more people. Currently if the victim and the last hitter both disappear, there is no killmail, even if 100 other people are involved. Send a mail to everybody who got on the kill. |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adding to the call for logis on killmails. |
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