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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tahlma
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dargaro Inozowa Edited by: Dargaro Inozowa on 28/02/2008 21:04:04
Originally by: Tahlma Wow, so much America and religion bashing in this thread. But rather than give in to your knee-jerk bigoted impulse, why donÆt you stop and think for a second. LetÆs consider some of the wonders of medical science.
There are diet pills that caused liver failure and death in thousands. There was a wonderful little pill to ease morning sickness in pregnant women that caused horrible birth defects. Organ replacements are wonderful but created an organ black market where the rich harvest the living bodies of the poor. Plastic surgery disasters are always good for a horror show. And letÆs not forget where our modern techniques and medical knowledge come from. Since the very beginning our medical knowledge was increased by inhuman acts. A few examples are **** GermanyÆs experiments on Jews, WW2 era JapanÆs tests on the Chinese, the Tuskegee Experiments, and MKULTRA. I could go on.
Given this information Americans and anyone else are right to be skeptical. You call them idiots for this skepticism but an intelligent person thinks not just of the positive aspects of change but the negative ones as well. We all remember PavlovÆs dog, but how many remember the little boy he did permanent damage to with his tests?
The potential benefits of this are enormous, but so are the risks. If nanobots were turned into a weapon they could kill all life on the planet from human to virus in a matter of hours. It doesnÆt even have to be intentional it could be an accident. What if self-replicating nanobots programmed to eat cancer cells suddenly couldnÆt tell the difference between cancerous cells and healthy ones? Ya, thatÆs right we all die.
But maybe youÆre rightà How dare these people question your god, the scientist?!
That isnt the debate, it's them finding it religiously immoral.
Them who?
They cited people claiming the opposition is opposed based on religious belief but did not quote any of this opposition.
I am a very religious person and this is the first IÆve heard of anyone finding nano-tech immoral. I actually canÆt think of any religious basis to oppose nano-tech, except for maybe with the Christian Scientists who reject all medicine, Hindus who hold bodily purity in high regard or maybe Jews, who arenÆt even allowed tattoos.
But from a religious standpoint if setting a bone with a pin is okay then treating cancer with nanites is just as okay.
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Tahlma
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:35:00 -
[32]
Thinking about this a little moreà who and how did they ask? Where they in New York? Where they in Salt Lake City? Was the survey as followsà
I amà (Circle One)
A) religiously opposed to nanotech
B) a rapist
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Barbens
Black Lotus Foundation Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:35:00 -
[33]
IBTL!
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Chirruper
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:36:00 -
[34]
75% of people don't even know what nanotechnology is, much less able to answer a survey about whether or not it is morally acceptable. You know the article is full of crap when it mentions a "big debate" where no one has heard even a peep. Most likely the people taking the survey were suspicious of "follow-ups" to something they found morally acceptable and just wanted their survey money. The only thing opposed to science in the article is its own research.
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tahlma
But from a religious standpoint if setting a bone with a pin is okay then treating cancer with nanites is just as okay.
The issue lies with blurring the boundary between man and machine, and increasing human potential passed what people alone are capable of. For example our DNA is the basis for our bodies. If nano-technology could be utilized to alter our own DNA many would see this as alterting god's plan.
Its also important to keep in mind that the answers that the people in survey gave probably weren't as grossly simplistic as "all nano-technology is religiously immoral", but more likely that the people surveyed found some uses of nano-technology to be religiously immoral. Which regardless of relgion I think all of us could find atleast a use or 2 of nano-technology that we find immoral, regardless of the relious aspect.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Tahlma
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:41:00 -
[36]
So you think the real point of contention is more of a genetic engineering issue?
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tahlma So you think the real point of contention is more of a genetic engineering issue?
That is one example, I'm sure its not the only one.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Admiral Ripstar
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Posted - 2008.02.28 22:17:00 -
[38]
Dont speak for me NoOb!!!!
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Raktar Medovski
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.28 22:34:00 -
[39]
They probably polled people in the Bible Belt. I'm sure if they told those people that God helped make nanotechnology, they'd be all for it.
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eWrath
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation The Omni Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.28 22:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Ehranavaar
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin heres the problem with nanobots in my bloodstream
I've got tiny robots in my blood stream DOING THINGS!?
Sure it can help but I can't stop thinking about the malicious potential
why yes they are called cells and your body is just full of them.
cells are not robots silly
Cells ARE robots, very specialized ones I might add, the difference between Cells and nanobots is that each cell contains a "blueprint" of the greater entity they all co-operate to form, encoded in it's core (aka DNA), and that cells are self-replicating organisms (except in rare cases, a la neurons).
So, virtually, organic life as we know it will be facing a real challenge once the first self-replicating nanobot emerges into existence, especially if mutation comes into play..
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Beware miners with guns! |
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nihlanth
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Posted - 2008.02.28 23:06:00 -
[41]
Ah, the wonders of trolling in a science/religion debate thread. How long will this one be? I bet .03 isk that it will be 5 pages before it gets locked.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2008.02.28 23:24:00 -
[42]
/facepalm. Originality be damned. The above is what best sums up my feelings. ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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CCP Mitnal
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Posted - 2008.02.29 00:45:00 -
[43]
Moved to OOPE.
Mitnal, Community Representative
EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang |
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rabbitgod Edited by: Rabbitgod on 28/02/2008 18:30:02
Originally by: Voolrath There you go. America thinks Nanos are morally unnacceptable. They cant be wrong can they? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/DyeHard/story?id=4348729&page=1
It took me 30 seconds to make this a proper link.
Thanks Micheal...wait... _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Nasta443
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:15:00 -
[45]
Is this the same people who believe that the earth is 6000 years old?
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:25:00 -
[46]
WTF,who would consider nano technology immoral?
BAH! This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
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Jayna Keria
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Posted - 2008.02.29 01:28:00 -
[47]
Think that article has very little actual evidence to back it up, they said they interviewed a little over 1k adults. Now for a country of 303million people that is such a tiny number that it is pointless beliving the outcome.
My view is that nano-technology is all good providing it is properly done and researched. ...stupid grey goo did for nanotechnology what chernobyl did to nuclear power.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:14:00 -
[48]
someone has something on page one asking for a login, killboard.dabruce.com
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CCP Mitnal
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:29:00 -
[49]
Not any more and please if you wish this thread to continue try and lay off the religious references.
Mitnal, Community Representative
EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang |
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: eWrath
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Ehranavaar
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin heres the problem with nanobots in my bloodstream
I've got tiny robots in my blood stream DOING THINGS!?
Sure it can help but I can't stop thinking about the malicious potential
why yes they are called cells and your body is just full of them.
cells are not robots silly
Cells ARE robots, very specialized ones I might add, the difference between Cells and nanobots is that each cell contains a "blueprint" of the greater entity they all co-operate to form, encoded in it's core (aka DNA), and that cells are self-replicating organisms (except in rare cases, a la neurons).
So, virtually, organic life as we know it will be facing a real challenge once the first self-replicating nanobot emerges into existence, especially if mutation comes into play..
The difference is my cells come with a guaranteed lifetime warranty. They don't have to call india and get the runaround from someone that took a 1 week english course by the help desk company. Seriously though...
Quote: We've been burned too many times by pharmaceutical drugs that were found to do more harm than good, after millions had already used them.
That is not a bad reason to be skeptical about this technology. With the quasi capitalistic societies we have today, the magnetism of one of the fattest bottom lines ever conceived of will be a motivating force for an equal level of ugliness. The companies that develop and sell this stuff to people will be basically your medical industry. You think your doctors are selling out to big pharm now! Imagine when all the nanos in your body can xmit a wireless signal. If I am making fat money, I am gonna wanna know what you think, what you see...I will know what to sell you before you know what you want!
Something like this requires an entirely different economic system, and that doesnt seem to be comming anytime soon. Perhaps the technology will usher in this new era, but...I doubt it. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.29 02:38:00 -
[51]
i am not directly scared of nanobots in medical use but more the fact of how they could be abused. now im not talking borg stuff, but here in the US all medical stuff is pretty much done for profit(my mom takes a drug that is $1500 every two weeks), drug mfg say costs like that are to recover R&D. yet here i am watching Primetime TV(which here in the US is one of the most Costly blocks for advertising on the tube) and i see more ads for perscription meds then i do Toyotas.
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Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.02.29 03:29:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Brea Lafail on 29/02/2008 03:30:32
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin For example our DNA is the basis for our bodies. If nano-technology could be utilized to alter our own DNA many would see this as alterting god's plan.
Changing DNA is easy, the hard part is knowing what to change.
Originally by: James Lyrus That's not the way it works. A recent war, has cost the kind of sum of money that would feed and educate every child on the planet for 35 years. But that would involve propping up the 'have nots'. Why be altruistic, when you can keep the power for yourself, and prosper both in absolute, and relative comparison.
I know you were probably being sarcastic, but I agree entirely. There is simply not enough resources for everyone to share the kind of life to which people in many first-world nations are accustom to and damned if Im going to be the one who goes hungry.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: nihlanth That's it, I'm moving to Europe. Tired of these religious nutcases who limit human potential due to fear and cowardice.
So, based on a survey about a hypothetical technology that does not exist, you will move out of the US? To say, outside of the US, where Europe and the UN have banned the importation and use of rBGH milk because of ethical problems? The rBGH hormone increases milk production by 20%, no known medical problems, and you want to move away from the only nation not afraid to use it?
The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it. |
Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:42:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 29/02/2008 04:45:46
Originally by: Jayna Keria Think that article has very little actual evidence to back it up, they said they interviewed a little over 1k adults. Now for a country of 303million people that is such a tiny number that it is pointless beliving the outcome.
My view is that nano-technology is all good providing it is properly done and researched. ...stupid grey goo did for nanotechnology what chernobyl did to nuclear power.
The article also did not quote any of the questions, used in any of the surveys.
And oddly enough, the survey used here, was done right after THIS survey by the same university. And that survey where scientists were more concerned about pollution and privacy rights that the general public. News of that survey and its discussions could have clouded the responses of the the survey of this thread.
The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it. |
nihlanth
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:48:00 -
[55]
Edited by: nihlanth on 29/02/2008 04:49:53
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: nihlanth That's it, I'm moving to Europe. Tired of these religious nutcases who limit human potential due to fear and cowardice.
So, based on a survey about a hypothetical technology that does not exist, you will move out of the US? To say, outside of the US, where Europe and the UN have banned the importation and use of rBGH milk because of ethical problems? The rBGH hormone increases milk production by 20%, no known medical problems, and you want to move away from the only nation not afraid to use it?
I couldn't care less about an increase milk production. I dont drink very much of it anyways. It is not a life-changing issue. The only benefit of rBGH is that prices are decreased a little on dairy products due to increased supply of milk. The only significant impact it will have is on the dairy products market - and I'm not a stock broker that invests in that area.
Wow...I can become a superhuman from just 20% more milk in my system!
But maybe those nano--bots can help me heal my muscles much faster after a workout, therefore making me stronger, or protecting me from the common cold or flu on a daily basis. Hell, it may even be able to let me breathe underwater! Therefore it will have a significant impact on my life directly - as opposed to some milk hormone.
Maybe I was a little melodramatic...but I'm not simply going to pack my bags and move away from my home that I have lived in my whole life this instant unless there is some major recession (that either forces millions to be unemployed, or the cost of living skyrockets).
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Seroquel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:49:00 -
[56]
I don't think he was being sincere about moving. Most Americans on these forums deprecate themselves more than required because they want to be accepted socially.
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: nihlanth That's it, I'm moving to Europe. Tired of these religious nutcases who limit human potential due to fear and cowardice.
So, based on a survey about a hypothetical technology that does not exist, you will move out of the US? To say, outside of the US, where Europe and the UN have banned the importation and use of rBGH milk because of ethical problems? The rBGH hormone increases milk production by 20%, no known medical problems, and you want to move away from the only nation not afraid to use it?
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Arron S
Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.29 05:19:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Arron S on 29/02/2008 05:20:30 I'm Excited about Nano and Cybernetics Technoloagy. And that attitudes in Canada a are Different however I can see *****s like Greenpeace and other political groups jumping on the No Bandwagon. Its beatnik intellectuals that try to hamper human potential instead of the religois nut jobs
Once these get cleared for human testing, I'm so signing up!n
I'm also interested in Technology that prevents DNA Degradation. Living for 750 years and in fit condition sounds better then 100-120 years in my eyes.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.29 05:29:00 -
[58]
I am lost, one can make GBL, the prequisite for GHB (the drug) from pool chlorinator and PVC pipe solvent. Explosive synths are even easier.
So, whats the thing about nanotechnology that makes it so scary? Does not compute. _______
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.29 05:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Great Artista I am lost, one can make GBL, the prequisite for GHB (the drug) from pool chlorinator and PVC pipe solvent. Explosive synths are even easier.
So, whats the thing about nanotechnology that makes it so scary? Does not compute.
The only things I can think of besides the obvious is people that are afraid of them taking over our mind,its a real danger however we will build them to kinda...Not do that. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
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DrBiologist
Caldari W.A.S.P The Nexus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 05:38:00 -
[60]
I swear to god, we as a race are fing dumb as hell. I cant imagine why this wouldnt be acceptible. if they want to be ***** arse biatches then let them be, who gives a damn if they want to die due to something that may be treatable by nano technology.
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