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Please clarify information about T2 BPOs

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Astra Solare	Posted - 2008.02.25 19:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:55:19 Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:53:44 Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:53:30 Morning ladies and gentelmans! I would like to ask some of CCP officials clarify situation with T2 BPOs. So far I heard directly opposite information regarding future of existing T2 BPOs: 1) T2 BPOs will be changed to T2 BPC with 1000 runs; 2) T2 BPOs will not be removed. I searched but did not found any clear answer to this question (well, maybe I did not searched good enough, but I am not ideal after all ) I hope that is not asked too much - to make clear rules of game we are playing. Because I think it is clear that depending on future of T2 BPOs there will be different preferable actions taken by people on field of research, industry and so on... Best wishes. P.S. Please do not flood here if you have not clear and straight information from CCP officials with reference to source.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.25 19:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Pizi on 25/02/2008 20:04:43 Edited by: Pizi on 25/02/2008 20:03:00 last info from them was at the fanfest when someone asked it was like no we dont have any plans to change them ... or so i think you can watch it on eve tv edit: with luck you can post your question herehttp://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=705008and it gets answered or watch the turney and mail the m a question when oveur is in the studio another edit : and the plan in the devblog from a year ago was to add maintanance to the BPO .. to even it out a bit more with invention _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
William Ortega Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 20:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Astra Solare Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:55:19 Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:53:44 Edited by: Astra Solare on 25/02/2008 19:53:30 Morning ladies and gentelmans! I would like to ask some of CCP officials clarify situation with T2 BPOs. So far I heard directly opposite information regarding future of existing T2 BPOs: 1) T2 BPOs will be changed to T2 BPC with 1000 runs; 2) T2 BPOs will not be removed. I searched but did not found any clear answer to this question (well, maybe I did not searched good enough, but I am not ideal after all ) I hope that is not asked too much - to make clear rules of game we are playing. Because I think it is clear that depending on future of T2 BPOs there will be different preferable actions taken by people on field of research, industry and so on... Best wishes. P.S. Please do not flood here if you have not clear and straight information from CCP officials with reference to source. I seem to remember one of the devs stating that they are satisfied with the way invention was implemented and the effects it had on T2 market (i.e. aside from availability of certain advances materials they do not see a problem...). In all my time reading dev blogs and the occasional posts they make here, I have never seen them state anything against the status quo. That is 99.9999% the existing T2 BPOs will not be removed. The whole changing of T2 BPOs to BPCs with 1000 runs is mainly wishful thinking by people-green eyed with envy, who incidentally do not realize the miniscule impact the existing BPOs have on the economy. -Willy

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.02.25 21:16:00 - [4] There is currently no plans to change T2 BPOs now or in the near future. This does not mean they will never be considered to be changed but it is still relatively too early to make sure a huge change.

Shintai Gallente IonTech Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.25 21:44:00 - [5] Sad... The T2 BPOs is like giving a few people an ISK printer. In industrial terms its like giving people a hammer of doom with 33.6DPS, while the biggest weapon now is 16.8DPS. Impossible to compete with. Datacores+successchance+40% waste as default to penalize the rest of the crowd for CCPs failure to handle the future aspects. Either the T2 BPOs should be gone. Or else let everyone have a chance to get and still get them. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Carlisle Perera Karwal Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:16:00 - [6] One idea would be to allow us to do ME/PE research on BPC, not only the BPO .. Might take a while to research the bpc, but at least you'll get out of the negative ME (which would be the boost needed for jump freighters ...)
Bartom Dekkar Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Shintai Sad... The T2 BPOs is like giving a few people an ISK printer. In industrial terms its like giving people a hammer of doom with 33.6DPS, while the biggest weapon now is 16.8DPS. Impossible to compete with. Datacores+successchance+40% waste as default to penalize the rest of the crowd for CCPs failure to handle the future aspects. Either the T2 BPOs should be gone. Or else let everyone have a chance to get and still get them. If they were impossible to compete with, inventors wouldn't be making lots of isk inventing. Sure, the bpo owners can make more per unit, but we can make it up in volume. Also, if there were no competition, how do you explain the huge drop in prices for t2 items almost across the board? For the most part, the T2 bpo's are irrelevant and my real competitors are the other inventors. In the case of the less desirable items, the bpo's are actually helpful as they provide some level of supply that inventors can't be bothered to deal with.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:42:00 - [8] Not to mention the fact that prob 80%+ of T2 BPO's have been sold on since the Lottery days, meaning the lucky few have already had their ISK and run, while the people producing from them now have spent lots of billions investing in them. Killing off T2 BPO's now solves precisely nothing. Invention balances things just fine - in fact from the perspective of someone who bought say a Power Diag 2 BPO a couple of years ago for 25bn, things have gone too far the other way. Whatever you think about whether the T2 BPO Lottery was right or wrong, it's done now and the horse has bolted. Why are people still talking about the stable door?
Shintai Gallente IonTech Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Bartom Dekkar Originally by: Shintai Sad... The T2 BPOs is like giving a few people an ISK printer. In industrial terms its like giving people a hammer of doom with 33.6DPS, while the biggest weapon now is 16.8DPS. Impossible to compete with. Datacores+successchance+40% waste as default to penalize the rest of the crowd for CCPs failure to handle the future aspects. Either the T2 BPOs should be gone. Or else let everyone have a chance to get and still get them. If they were impossible to compete with, inventors wouldn't be making lots of isk inventing. Sure, the bpo owners can make more per unit, but we can make it up in volume. Also, if there were no competition, how do you explain the huge drop in prices for t2 items almost across the board? For the most part, the T2 bpo's are irrelevant and my real competitors are the other inventors. In the case of the less desirable items, the bpo's are actually helpful as they provide some level of supply that inventors can't be bothered to deal with. If you actually check the market. You will find quite a few things that you can not in any way compete with as an inventor. It is mainly the more fast produced items. Also in any short demand the BPO holder wins flat down. And when the inventor barely make a profit competiting with the rest. The BPO holders earn huge profits. Would you say its ok that I dont pay sales tax or broker fee¦s and my station rents and slots are free? I dont think so, I bet you would complain over I have an unfair and undeserved business advantage. I dont know if you are "old enough" to know that in the early game a T5 mining laser was also given out. It is unbalanced nomatter how you put it and should be removed. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Bartom Dekkar Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.26 00:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Shintai If you actually check the market. You will find quite a few things that you can not in any way compete with as an inventor. It is mainly the more fast produced items. You mean things with a short build time like modules? T2 module prices have tanked since invention. I don't think it is because the BPO holders decided they had enough profit, I think it is because competition from inventors brought the price down. I invent modules and I make plenty of profit. Originally by: Shintai Also in any short demand the BPO holder wins flat down. And when the inventor barely make a profit competiting with the rest. The BPO holders earn huge profits. Yes, if the demand for something is low, the BPO holder has an advantage. The profit margin will be much lower than before invention, though, since if it goes up high enough, inventors will enter the market. Originally by: Shintai Would you say its ok that I dont pay sales tax or broker fee¦s and my station rents and slots are free? I dont think so, I bet you would complain over I have an unfair and undeserved business advantage. It all depends. If I have higher standings than you, or train my skills up, I will have an advantage in refining, selling, producing, and so forth. If I rent a station a bit further out than you, rents will be much much lower, sometimes by a factor of 1000. Just because there is an advantage in some way doesn't mean it is per se unfair. Many of the current BPO holders paid billions of dollars for them. Is it fair that they be removed? Many other things are up to chance in the game: Getting a nice faction drop from a mission when many others never do. Is that fair? Not really, it is chance. Even the original lottery winners had to put time and effort to get their skills and standings up in order to participate. should that all be invalidated? The lottery was a bad idea, but it is not the fault of the folks who participated. Originally by: Shintai I dont know if you are "old enough" to know that in the early game a T5 mining laser was also given out. It is unbalanced nomatter how you put it and should be removed. What is "balanced" if everything was the same, it would be a pretty boring game. As it is, I can, with hard work, make more profit than a T2 bpo holder. Maybe not in every item, but who cares? I will go where the profit is.

Bartom Dekkar Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.26 00:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Shintai I will also give you an example of a ship. Lets take an Ishtar as an example. If we asume you dont use decryptors since cruisers is about hmmhmm in that area depending on mech/starship core prices. Lets do it abit rough here. 25% chance of an Ishtar. That means you spend 16million on datacores for that success if we assume 400K/100K (Yes it can be cheaper). So your Ishtar with home manufactored components will be around 60-65million isk. All joy, demand is high enough and you earn a good profit. You have used 3 days to build it, 1 day to invent it with 4 slots. Another half a day to make the components. Plus alittle time for each copy. So maybe half a day in the copy lab too. The BPO holder makes the same ship for about 30million, dont need a POS unless he wants to make more copies of his BPO. No datacores, no extra lab slots used and he can make the same ship in around 1 day and he only need to produce 67% of the components the inventor does. In short this BPO holder earns about 1 billion isk a month MORE asuming he dont make any copies, just 1 ship per day than any inventor. Plus he saves alot of time on manufactoring jobs, both ship and components. And he needs less time to haul materials home. No POS to defend or haul fuel to. Yes, but you miss the point. The BPO holder is limited to 1 ship per day from his bpo no matter how hard he works or how many corp mates help out. That billion extra per month is all that he is going to get. An inventor is not limited to one ship every three days. He can run 9 invention slots and 9 manufacture slots around the clock if he buys bpc's from others. So, if the profit is high enough above invention cost, he can make a lot more than the bpo holder. Also, if a popular ship BPO only makes 1B per month more than invention, how do you think the other BPO holders are doing? I can easily make more than 1B per week just inventing modules! Sounds pretty balanced to me. Sure, it won't be perfect. Having a lottery for the T2 BPO's turned out to be not such a good idea, but at least Invention goes quite a ways towards balance. There are no more T2 monopolies or cartels. That was the bad part and it is over.
William Ortega Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.26 01:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Shintai Edited by: Shintai on 25/02/2008 23:48:00 Edited by: Shintai on 25/02/2008 23:44:38 Edited by: Shintai on 25/02/2008 23:43:07 Originally by: Bartom Dekkar Originally by: Shintai Sad... The BPO holder makes the same ship for about 30million, dont need a POS unless he wants to make more copies of his BPO. No datacores, no extra lab slots used and he can make the same ship in around 1 day and he only need to produce 67% of the components the inventor does. In short this BPO holder earns about 1 billion isk a month MORE asuming he dont make any copies, just 1 ship per day than any inventor. Plus he saves alot of time on manufactoring jobs, both ship and components. And he needs less time to haul materials home. No POS to defend or haul fuel to. Hmm, can you imagine how much money I would make from the 20-30bil that poor sod had to shell out for his BPO? 1-2 years to recoup the initial investment? no thank you! You conveniently forget the start up costs. Did it really take you 20 bil to setup your POS? More than 5 fold reduction in price for many T2 items since invention came out suggests that its not BPO holders that make it "impossible" for you to compete on certain modules/ships but rather other inventors. In your example you make an ishtar for 60 mil while a BPO owner makes it for 30. Whats stopping you from running 10 lines of ishtar (keeping the last line to pump out the most cost effective component) and making 5 times more than him for a fraction of the cost. Now what happens to the BPO owner if his item gets nerfed? For example, ishtar gets hit with a drone nerf or a nano nerf? He is sittig on a huge turkey, while you liqidate your existing lines and move on to something else. On a line by line basis, yes, the BPO owner earns more isk. Most BPO owners I know are also inventors. If owning a BPO is such a golden goose wtf are they bothering with "inefficient" invention for? Competing in invented items is all about quantity, not quality. Trust me its the other inventors that are putting you out of business... -Willy
Bartom Dekkar Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.02.26 02:46:00 - [13] Originally by: William Ortega Trust me its the other inventors that are putting you out of business... It isn't me, honest I'm a nice guy! Seriously, Willie knows what he is talking about. If you really think the T2 BPO's are all that great, go ahead and buy one.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.26 07:20:00 - [14] Trust me its the other inventors that are putting you out of business... -------------------------- thats so true, it should be sticky just look at the nonT2BPOinventonly stuff ive said it before and say it now just sell your datacores and buy a bpo you want, its easyer now to get a bpo then it was with the lottery 2m per argent per day x 6 x 3 x 360 in an year you can buy quite a nice bpo and this doesnt take the 3m you would have got for a single DC if you cashed in after the lottery ended _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.02.26 07:50:00 - [15] I feel sorry for anyone that bought an expensive T2 BPO. :o Even what was the BEST BPO before (hulk) at the moment makes in a month what a Dysprosium moon makes in a week. I don't really care if they remove them or not, for the most part their value is heading down so fast it's not really going to matter. The 'crappy' T2 BPOs (like small guns / unused guns / large EM drones etc) that make stuff cheaper than invention end up selling their products for cost anyway :o . I see a future where T2 BPOs are irrelevant. Their only grip on relevance at the moment is in ships that really 'need' decryptors (BCs mostly).
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.26 09:16:00 - [16] Incidentally, has CCP mentioned any plans for tech beyond tech 2? It seems to me that a lot of the current valuations for tech 2 BPOs assume that nothing better comes along over the next few years. But that could change over several years. Tech 2 materials, components, and modules could be become more commonplace in empire, tech 2 BPOs seeded in empire, etc.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.02.26 21:56:00 - [17] Tech3 was looking at being T2 but with better properties for dealing with heat. It'd probably be invented from T1 BPCs still but maybe with different inputs.
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:13:00 - [18] T2 BPO's are traded with prices generally based on break-even time. That time is usually in the region of a YEAR. Believe me, T2 BPO's aren't isk printing machines any more so than a T1 BPO is. The only reason inventors aren't making isk hand over fist is because their fellow inventors low ball their product on the market. The inventors are the ones setting the prices, not the T2 BPO holders. Only two groups of people have benefited from invention: the consumer and the moon miner. The inventors screwed themselves, and the T2 holders have seen their profits fall through the floor. Inventors also have the flexibility to invent whatever is currently hot on the market; T2 BPO holders can quickly find themselves holding onto a multi-billion isk lame duck as the market fluctuates. So don't complain about T2 BPO holders eating into your profits. Complain about the inventor sitting in the station with you, not considering their datacores in their build costs, and undercutting you by 20% or more. -Grid
Anson Halleck Lost Eden	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Gridwalker T2 BPO's are traded with prices generally based on break-even time. That time is usually in the region of a YEAR. Price of T2 BPOs is now higher, usually 1.5-2 years of nonstop production to get original investment back.
Tadistra	Posted - 2008.03.12 02:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Gridwalker T2 BPO's are traded with prices generally based on break-even time. That time is usually in the region of a YEAR. Price of T2 BPOs is now higher, usually 1.5-2 years of nonstop production to get original investment back. That may be the case, but the truth of it is if I spend 50 billion to get a t2 bpo and make my money back on it, I can still turn around and sell it for 50 billion, or more. Even If its price dropped in half, I still make 25 billion off of it, which still boils down to 1 billion profit per month over 2 years.

Zarin	Posted - 2008.03.13 07:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Tadistra Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Gridwalker T2 BPO's are traded with prices generally based on break-even time. That time is usually in the region of a YEAR. Price of T2 BPOs is now higher, usually 1.5-2 years of nonstop production to get original investment back. That may be the case, but the truth of it is if I spend 50 billion to get a t2 bpo and make my money back on it, I can still turn around and sell it for 50 billion, or more. Even If its price dropped in half, I still make 25 billion off of it, which still boils down to 1 billion profit per month over 2 years. Unfortunately this doesn't hold true since invention has been buffed and the costs are dropping so much, it's likely you spend 50 billion, if you would make you money back in 2 years at current prices, by the time 2 years is up prices will probably be 1/3 as high, and profit 1/5 as much, you're unlikely to have made all that much, and by then 2 years profit will be much less and the BPO worth much less. Best BPOs to buy really are things you are going to use alot of / supply to your own high demand market (say in 0.0) where you can charge a slight premium and possibly build faster using factory outposts.
Riley Craven	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:11:00 - [22] To be frank about all this (from an outsiders perspective), none of the arguements I have read so far have any merit. Though that doesnt mean that bpos shouldnt be nuked. In a nut shell the reason is that BPO's set a market baseline for an items price. The fact of that matter is that everyone and their mom thinks that controlled markets are bad for the economy (for example shuttles setting the basline for trit) Granted while not an apples to apples comparison the point remains the same. BPOs are atm a market anomaly. The solution is simple. Cahnge all bpos to bpcs that have enough runs to make them last for at least a year. In the market the gold standard minium in EVE seems to be an ROI of 1 year. If the ROI goes beyond that, you are stupid and thus should pay the stupid tax. Solving the problem this way insure thats the anomaly goes away and makes sure that people that bought bpos rationally dont loose their investment. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Ethen Bejorn	Posted - 2008.03.13 21:27:00 - [23] They need to remove them from the game.
William Ortega	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 13/03/2008 21:16:07 To be frank about all this (from an outsiders perspective), none of the arguements I have read so far have any merit. Though that doesnt mean that bpos shouldnt be nuked. I appreciate the outsider's perspective, but in this, as an insider, I have to disagree. I have been messing around with invention/t2 production for quite some time now, so I think I have a general feel as an insider of how things are... The problem with your argument is that it is not the BPO owners that are setting the baseline prices for inventors. You shuttle example does not really apply here, as shuttle supply is infinite and near instantaneous (which is why they provide such a ready baseline). T2 production times, on the other hand, are looooooong (did I get enough 'o' s there... not sure). Inventors on the other hand can flood the market very very fast. They make up in quantity what they cannot compete with in quality. For most "hot" items, its inventors putting each other out of business, not the BPO owners (they honestly do not have enough production capacity to put a serious dent on the market). I alone have put out 300+ T2 modules per week (using only one account) with out breaking too much sweat. Considering the number of people bouncing around in invention (many with multiple manufacturing accounts), the piddly number of BPOs handed out over the years hardly matters. While CCP doesn't like baselines, they like interfering with the free market part of EvE even less. It is a major bragging point they have (Eve is one of the few games that has a market as complex and as unregulated) to create that "dark and unfriendly place" that is EvE. The players calling for removal of BPOs are under (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that doing so will have some sort of effect on their bottom line. -Willy
Khatred	Posted - 2008.03.13 22:57:00 - [25] This isn't the conspiracy you are looking for. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:37:00 - [26] Originally by: William Ortega Inventors on the other hand can flood the market very very fast. They make up in quantity what they cannot compete with in quality. For most "hot" items, its inventors putting each other out of business, not the BPO owners (they honestly do not have enough production capacity to put a serious dent on the market). This is an easy claim to make, but I'd really like to see some numbers to back it up. Sounds like a job for Dr. EyjoG One inventor can flood a market quite easily, and there are a lot more inventors than BPO owners, but producers generally back off quite quickly once margins start to narrow, and at that point the BPO owners have the edge and can continue to produce at a profit. They can then raise prices again if the competition drops off. It's hard to say for certain, especially without knowing how many BPOs exist for each item, but I'd wager that the BPO-produced market share might be higher than you think, especially for less popular items where demand can be largely met via production from BPOs. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2008.03.13 23:50:00 - [27] Well,, I just recently got back into Invention straight into quite a flooded market. I average 1250-2500 isk per minute depending on success/fail rate. That's satisfactory, but I'd like better so I just sell off the BPCs at a bit less than optimal price coz my standard industrial lines make more. Plus people dwelling in 0.0 space who don't/can't invent will love the fact they can buy T2 BPCs and take them home where they can be manufactured for less than Jita average prices. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Improve Market Competition!
Zarin	Posted - 2008.03.14 05:26:00 - [28] Some T2 prices are set by BPO owners (BPO Supply > Demand) the rest are set by inventors (BPO Supply < Demand). The T2 items where supply is greater than demand are selling for <10% above BPO build cost, let alone invention cost. I just stopped making 2 of the 3 T2 items I produce (Wasp IIs / Hemorphite Mining Crystall II) As I make more inventing better things myself and using my time to build those. Of course these are items that : are not used in PvP, in the case of the Wasp can only be used in sets by the gallente drone boats, and in the case of the Hemorphite Crystal, Hemorphite is worthless due to the low nocx prices, so no one mines it. Yet I can pump out hundreds and hundreds per month, while no one wants to buy them. Thus it is not worth making them. On the other hand, things like Hulks have most of their supply from inventors, so the BPO will always be profitable because the demand is greater than the BPO supply (albeit not all that profitable in comparison to what it was previously, due to the invention cost drop and ME buff it had recently). Still quite profitable. If you get rid of the BPOs for some things prices will go up. (all of a sudden the lesser used modules will cost as much as the more used modules, because inventors can switch around to the highest price item, bring the price down, then move onto the next highest priced item, so no one will invent them until the price rises to a point where invention would be profitable). On the other hand prices will not change for the more in demand items, at least not that much, though they may go up a little as inventors switch back and forth and the total demand for invention increases. Even as a T2 BPO owner I'd be fine with having them set to as many runs as you can do in a couple of years (that would actually benefit me as I would just wait for the prices to rise before building). What it won't benefit is the consumer really, and it will be pretty indifferent for most inventors. Of course as datacore prices drop the only thing seperating inventors from BPO owners is the slight extra waste (which is not a huge consideration in most products). And more importantly in ships where you need decryptors. The single run output vs using a decryptor vs waste etc nature of ship invention means that they will for quite a while be the most profitable T2 BPOs out there. But still, it's not really a need to nerf the BPOs, just a need to buff the invention until the BPOs are less of an advantage than they are worth.
Setana Manoro	Posted - 2008.03.14 11:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Shintai Sad... The T2 BPOs is like giving a few people an ISK printer. In industrial terms its like giving people a hammer of doom with 33.6DPS, while the biggest weapon now is 16.8DPS. Impossible to compete with. Datacores+successchance+40% waste as default to penalize the rest of the crowd for CCPs failure to handle the future aspects. Either the T2 BPOs should be gone. Or else let everyone have a chance to get and still get them. They are balanced out by their insane price and low productivity. Also, i don't think many of the T2 BPO's remained in the hands of their original owners. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Aldee Federated Holdings	Posted - 2008.03.14 18:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Tadistra Originally by: Anson Halleck Originally by: Gridwalker T2 BPO's are traded with prices generally based on break-even time. That time is usually in the region of a YEAR. Price of T2 BPOs is now higher, usually 1.5-2 years of nonstop production to get original investment back. That may be the case, but the truth of it is if I spend 50 billion to get a t2 bpo and make my money back on it, I can still turn around and sell it for 50 billion, or more. Even If its price dropped in half, I still make 25 billion off of it, which still boils down to 1 billion profit per month over 2 years. Well I will sell you a t2 bpo for say 30 bil then, considering it hasn't made me more then a couple of bil in over 3 yrs and that was back before invention. Nowadays ppl selling in my market are just about selling the stuff for my build cost and they produce what looks like 3x more then I do. You can buy the bpo and hope it doesnt get removed in a yr.



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