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Brother Welcome
Amarr Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:09:00 -
[1]
Eve plays a bit slow if you ask me, and as a consequence a lot of tactics and ranges are deadspace. The issue with nanoes is not that they go fast, but that they go fast-er.
Solution: improve everythng else, scaled appropriately, until the whole game plays at twice the current speeds. Far more fun! Lasers will rule. Blobs will scatter across half the system. Etc. Note that 'scaled appropriately' means scrams, bubbles, webs, missile explosion velocities, turret tracking, etc also scale.
TYVM
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:15:00 -
[2]
so basically you want everything to stay as it is now just with bigger numbers?
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xxxak
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Gawain Hill so basically you want everything to stay as it is now just with bigger numbers?
No, he is right. If everything were twice as fast (20kms vaga, 300 m/s Drake, etc) then the game play would be very different. People would get spread out a lot more, and that would change tactics etc.
But such a huge change would break so many things, and take SOOO long to rebalance.... forget it.
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Guer
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:32:00 -
[4]
next time.. before you post...
don't.
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mentalmonkey
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:32:00 -
[5]
I think the opposite, if it were feasable I would like to see everything slowed down. Mainly because it would make everything feel bigger which I think is one of the asthetical proplems in everything feels tiny. Trinity helped but its still way off. However I dont think it could be easy to impliment / rebalannce and not worth the Dev time.
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Alan Bell
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.19 09:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: mentalmonkey I think the opposite, if it were feasable I would like to see everything slowed down. Mainly because it would make everything feel bigger which I think is one of the asthetical proplems in everything feels tiny. Trinity helped but its still way off. However I dont think it could be easy to impliment / rebalannce and not worth the Dev time.
so how fast will my freighter warp/do anything now?
Baka! |
Knoppaz
Rens Nursing Home
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Posted - 2008.02.19 10:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: mentalmonkey I think the opposite, if it were feasable I would like to see everything slowed down. Mainly because it would make everything feel bigger which I think is one of the asthetical proplems in everything feels tiny. Trinity helped but its still way off. However I dont think it could be easy to impliment / rebalannce and not worth the Dev time.
Even slower?? It's already painful to see a spaceship crawl with 300m/s and you really want it slower? Even tho it's just the display of numbers since everything would more or less feel the same, but it should be more like 3000m/s. It kinda sucks to see that even some frigs have a standard speed (in space dammit!) like an Airbus A380
Support Cailais' idea of LowSec MKII |
Rutefly
Amarr Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2008.02.19 11:47:00 -
[8]
Beside the feel of space and wastness and size of things, yopu also trade off the leaned-back strategic thinking space during pew. If pew gets much more fast paced its all about the micro skillz, and were playing quake in a space environment. On the other hand most ppl only have a few hours to play a day and moving a slow freighter through empire will have to be done afk on auto, and you mis all the fun of clicking yet another gate, align, hit warp. I think its pretty well balanced atm.
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.21 13:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/02/2008 13:02:01
Originally by: Guer next time.. before you post...
don't.
Ah, how one loves a reasoned and passionate engagement with one's main theme. How one enjoys the pure heady ozone of rhetoric. 'Next time... before you post... don't.' Words of limpid clarity. Did you craft that canny phrase for your very self, or shall you direct me toward that masterful scribe, that veritable titan of the boards, astride and tea-bagging us as we quail betwixt his massive thews, whose words you so glibly paraphrase?
My idea is precisely what Eve needs, and your inability to understand it doesn't affect that. However, it won't happen because of the work involved.
-vk
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.21 13:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Brother Welcome Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/02/2008 13:02:01
Originally by: Guer next time.. before you post.."""..don't.
Ah, how one loves a reasoned and passionate engagement with one's main theme. How one enjoys the pure heady ozone of rhetoric. 'Next time... before you post... don't.' Words of limpid clarity. Did you craft that canny phrase for your very self, or shall you direct me toward that masterful scribe, that veritable titan of the boards, astride and tea-bagging us as we quail betwixt his massive thews, whose words you so glibly paraphrase?
My idea is precisely what Eve needs, and your inability to understand it doesn't affect that. However, it won't happen because of the work involved.
-vk
Pwned! --------- I had something important to put here but CCP decided in thier infinite wisdom to keep this space as small as possible. Thanks. |
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Insomnium
Minmatar the united Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.02.21 14:44:00 -
[11]
i couldnt understand half of that and it still screams pwn. ------------------------------------ If you define cowardice as running away at the first sign of danger, screaming and tripping and begging for mercy, then yes, Mr. Brave man, I guess I'm a coward |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.21 14:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Brother Welcome Etc. Note that 'scaled appropriately' means scrams, bubbles, webs, missile explosion velocities, turret tracking, etc also scale.
The current issue with speed is that with some cheap t2 gear you can negate most damage. Its the best tank out there as most dps won't even touch you. Add in faction and implants and it gets crazy. Scaling would have to go beyond and boost most of the above to begin being effective with nanos today.
I believe mwd was intended to offer massive amounts of speed in exchange for being a large and easy target. What happens now is that mwd gives speed and effectively tanks the ship at the same time. So everyone fits mwd as part of the holy trinity of modules.
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Opertone
Caldari Rulers Of Mankind
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Posted - 2008.02.21 15:05:00 -
[13]
rather nerf the uber speed on the hacs... it seems strage how they get out of battle at any time, they have perfect death kill ration, because they can run at any time they want... and they can kill, and no weapon can hit them, so called hit and run... pls balance this issue
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flaming phantom
Minmatar Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.02.21 15:09:00 -
[14]
when revelations came out they did a massive hp buff on all ships. i think if they sped everything up like you said then it would make killing ships a bit easier and faster, which is exactly what they didnt want with that hp buff
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.02.21 15:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Brother Welcome ...Did you craft that canny phrase for your very self, or shall you direct me toward that masterful scribe, that veritable titan of the boards, astride and tea-bagging us as we quail betwixt his massive thews, whose words you so glibly paraphrase?
My idea is precisely what Eve needs, and your inability to understand it doesn't affect that. However, it won't happen because of the work involved.
-vk
Thy verbose pwnage deserves lofty praise!
Here here! 2 cheers for a witty comback!
My rofling has been quenched by this retort - me thinks thou protest well!
__________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Gheeeed
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Posted - 2008.02.21 16:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Guer next time.. before you post...
don't.
You are in dire need of taking your own advice. |
shiro kiu
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Posted - 2008.02.21 16:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alan Bell
Originally by: mentalmonkey I think the opposite, if it were feasable I would like to see everything slowed down. Mainly because it would make everything feel bigger which I think is one of the asthetical proplems in everything feels tiny. Trinity helped but its still way off. However I dont think it could be easy to impliment / rebalannce and not worth the Dev time.
so how fast will my freighter warp/do anything now?
Why warp when you can fly to your destination faster?
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Arazel Chainfire
United System's Commonwealth
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Posted - 2008.02.21 16:34:00 -
[18]
This sounds like an interesting idea... but it has several flaws. First, if you were to just double everything (speed, hp, damage, turret tracking, etc.) the game would not be balanced. If you are looking to open up more tactics/range, this is not how to go about doing it. Now, admittedly i really do have to wonder about the numbers they decided to use when they first made eve (seriously... my car can go almost as fast as a freighter... wtf?), but because everything is the way it is now, we have to either A. stick with it, or B. remake the game.
If you're trying to counter specific things, (ex. nano's), i would reccomend going about it in a different way, specific to that problem rather than a blanket solution (though that is the CCP way of doing things it appears). As for eve being too slow - go fly an inty and start getting into dogfights. I would recommend the taranis
Another thing that you may not have thought of is the industry side of this. Would you also increase the speed of mining? Would you increase the range of mining lasers? Would the 250km locking range be increased? etc.
Just some food for thought
-Arazel
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xxxak
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Posted - 2008.02.21 17:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arazel Chainfire This sounds like an interesting idea... but it has several flaws. First, if you were to just double everything (speed, hp, damage, turret tracking, etc.) the game would not be balanced. If you are looking to open up more tactics/range, this is not how to go about doing it. Now, admittedly i really do have to wonder about the numbers they decided to use when they first made eve (seriously... my car can go almost as fast as a freighter... wtf?), but because everything is the way it is now, we have to either A. stick with it, or B. remake the game.
If you're trying to counter specific things, (ex. nano's), i would reccomend going about it in a different way, specific to that problem rather than a blanket solution (though that is the CCP way of doing things it appears). As for eve being too slow - go fly an inty and start getting into dogfights. I would recommend the taranis
Another thing that you may not have thought of is the industry side of this. Would you also increase the speed of mining? Would you increase the range of mining lasers? Would the 250km locking range be increased? etc.
Just some food for thought
-Arazel
Well, for RP purposes, they could just add a couple zeros to the speed #s and "say" that it is faster without *actually* changing how fast anything moves in relation to anything else.
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Julius Romanus
Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.21 17:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Originally by: Brother Welcome Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/02/2008 13:02:01
Originally by: Guer next time.. before you post.."""..don't.
Ah, how one loves a reasoned and passionate engagement with one's main theme. How one enjoys the pure heady ozone of rhetoric. 'Next time... before you post... don't.' Words of limpid clarity. Did you craft that canny phrase for your very self, or shall you direct me toward that masterful scribe, that veritable titan of the boards, astride and tea-bagging us as we quail betwixt his massive thews, whose words you so glibly paraphrase?
My idea is precisely what Eve needs, and your inability to understand it doesn't affect that. However, it won't happen because of the work involved.
-vk
Pwned!
I get the impression you'd like patton oswalt's standup quite a bit. Just a random note
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.21 18:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Originally by: Brother Welcome Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/02/2008 13:02:01
Originally by: Guer next time.. before you post.."""..don't.
Ah, how one loves a reasoned and passionate engagement with one's main theme. How one enjoys the pure heady ozone of rhetoric. 'Next time... before you post... don't.' Words of limpid clarity. Did you craft that canny phrase for your very self, or shall you direct me toward that masterful scribe, that veritable titan of the boards, astride and tea-bagging us as we quail betwixt his massive thews, whose words you so glibly paraphrase?
My idea is precisely what Eve needs, and your inability to understand it doesn't affect that. However, it won't happen because of the work involved.
-vk
Pwned!
I get the impression you'd like patton oswalt's standup quite a bit. Just a random note
There is nothing finer than a little sophisticated wit!
Patton Oswalt eh? I'll check him out! Thanks. --------- I had something important to put here but CCP decided in thier infinite wisdom to keep this space as small as possible. Thanks. |
Dalek Commander
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Posted - 2008.02.21 19:05:00 -
[22]
Response to Nanos: Huginn Heavy Tackler
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Agil TradeAlt
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Posted - 2008.02.21 19:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dalek Commander Response to Nanos: Huginn Heavy Tackler
And how does a huggin catch a ship if it is not nanoed itself?
Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
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Dalek Commander
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Posted - 2008.02.21 19:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Agil TradeAlt
Originally by: Dalek Commander Response to Nanos: Huginn Heavy Tackler
And how does a huggin catch a ship if it is not nanoed itself?
Webs that go out to 40k or 60k if you use Domination. Overheat you're talking what 75ish km? The whole idea of Nanoes for tanking is to circle strafe at high speeds, and close range, which is immediately negated by the superior web range of the Huginn. The Huginn doesn't need to be nanoed itself, because any nano that gets close enough to the Huginn to attack is webbed and popped.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.21 20:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dalek Commander the superior web range of the Huginn. The Huginn doesn't need to be nanoed itself, because any nano that gets close enough to the Huginn to attack is webbed and popped.
Huginns have been mostly replaced by Rapiers.
Your strategy is to sit there and wait for the nano to approach? After you find these suicidal nanos that get close enough to web, do they not warp off?
If you've too few Huginns, the superior web range means nothing as the the Huginn will be primary and popped. If you have enough Huginns to be dangerous to a nano gang (or logistics for a solo Huginn) then nothing happens as the nanos will run once webbed.
So Huginns have been replaced by groups of Rapiers. The Rapiers cloak, wait for a nano to be distracted, and attempt to get a web on after waiting for the decloak and targeting. The 5-6 second wait is an eternity as the target has moved 25-30km if not warped off. Once the target is webbed, the Rapier _must_ be nanoed to get close enough for points.
Next you'll point out that a Huginn needs to work with a Lach/Arazu for points. So now for each nano we want to kill we'll need 1x minm recon, 1x gallente recon, plus a few logistics. Best case the non nano gang brings to the fight more isk (ie faction webbers/scrams), more pilots, and kills less ships.
Better to ignore the non nano concept and fly cookie cutter nano Rapiers, Vagas, Ishtars, etc.
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Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.02.21 23:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Last Wolf on 21/02/2008 23:03:32 What I find funny is people don't seem to realize, That if the nano ship can shoot you... There is some ship out there that can shoot back at it!!! Its not like being nano-ed gives you infinite tracking. And if you fit a tank, instead of nanos, not only can you hit the nano ship... You can tank it also!!! OMG!!!
Only The Ishtar and Sacralige are an exception to this rule, in the case of the Ishtar you can easily web and pop the drones. Sacralige is the ONLY nano ship that is currently "overpowered" as it doesn't need slow down for its guns to hit. But even then a BS with a single heavy nuet can ruin its day
If there were some sort of mechanics in place to discourage blobing, I think you would see less and less nano ships and more and more tank heavy tech 1 bc/bs.
I wish EVE's physics engine supported Line of Sight. So that if there are 3 ships ABC. where A is shooting at C but B is inbetween them. ship B would get hit. Could make it based on Sig-resolution so you don't have BS 150km away insta popping all your tacklers. Then if you had a big gang of nano-ships. You would at least have to be a little bit more carefull as you could end up killing your own members.
Also bring in a ton of new tactics like using capital's or BS to "shield" smaller ships from long range fire.
Would also make dogeing around in an astriod field alot more interesting, and a lot more frustrating for a nano pilot.
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