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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
273
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 08:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
The official Hulkageddon manager has disappeared since a while.
Despite that, Goonswarm have formed a team dedicated to continued exhumers mass destruction that more than replaces Hulkageddon.
In fact, while the original Hulkageddon was something for the "wanna be average Joe ganker" and its balance and prizes were adequate to that, Goonswarm have basically endless funding, quite the grip over a lot of content of the game (some markets, vast 0.0 areas...) and therefore can afford a true, never ending carpet bombing strategy (without discerning between bots and not bots).
How do you feel about this?
Good for the game, because it removes many bots?
Bad because non bots are killed and podded as well?
Good or bad because it sort of pushes ice mining more to 0.0? (if the carpet bombing keeps being as thorough as is now)?
Good because more ships will be made?
Bad because nobody in hi sec can defend from an endless funds huge alliance?
This "different Hulkageddon" poses several philosophical and game design questions.
If they perma-keep the carpet bomb runs (I hope so!), basically this will remove hi sec ice mining for good. I see it as one of those "exploits" that must be repeated till large playerbase enough quits and the developers wake up off their slumber. (not really exploit in the "illegal" sense of the term, they are fully entitled to this). Hi sec dwellers are too helpless and fragmented to ever form an effective "counter" and they are against a mammoth, not the usual "average Joe" tears fuelled suicide gankers. Also there's no real defense against an organization that can just bring N + 1 ships whatever buffs / tank you fit (and Macks are not known for their survivability at all).
What tools does EvE give to counter / fight against this potentially (they have not confirmed or denied!) strong and continued initiative?
I rewrite the hypothetical terms in short:
1) Unlimited funding for the operation. 2) Unlimited duration. 3) Unlimited and thorough belts carpet bombing. You can see the same players killed multiple times a day, there's no "recoup the losses by mining more" factor. First time it happens and if Goons are smart they will keep this pressure for months.
Long term consequences of the above on the playerbase (in general)? 0.0 consequences / monopoly? (yes I am baiting you 0.0 haters!) Choices left to the hi sec miners since whatever they do, they will die?
I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Valei Khurelem
323
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 08:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.
I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.
This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
373
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 08:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just dont travel to bat country. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
None ofthe Above
62
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Posted - 2012.02.15 08:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:...
I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)
Yes.
Yes you are.
Tired of the current CSM? Vote for me, I am None ofthe Above! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=795254
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
481
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Posted - 2012.02.15 09:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Just dont travel to bat country.
I wasted like a fifth of my total possible sec status just podding some miner who didn't even have implants in.
Totally worth it. http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Parthonax
5
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Posted - 2012.02.15 09:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.
I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.
This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.
Tend to agree with this , bots in nullsec are a bigger problem than the icemining bots in highsec , we all know the size of the icemining bots in highsec and it is a problem but a problem that is visible to everyone and relative easy to solve Ratting bots in null sec we all hear about but most of us have no clue how big it really is , we only know it is huge enough to fuel a thriving RMT market. there have been several posts over the last few weeks about a certain russian alliance leader admitting that botting earns him more than a RL job , only a small window on what is really happening out there, but enough to fear the worse
I don't think that a annual hulkaggedon is gamebreaking , it keeps people sharp or give them a opportunity to explore other sides of the game for a few weeks , i only disaprove over the fact that it never seems to stop these days so this is permanence |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
374
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Posted - 2012.02.15 09:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
I like bot country though. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
273
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 09:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Parthonax wrote:
I don't think that a annual hulkaggedon is gamebreaking , it keeps people sharp or give them a opportunity to explore other sides of the game for a few weeks , i only disaprove over the fact that it never seems to stop these days
The novel idea is this, this could be a never ending and completely all encompassing and all time zones, 23/7 Hulkageddon.
I am exploring known ice belts, they are all empty even in The Forge! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
baltec1
611
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 09:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Greetings from BAT Country.
I would like to take this time to provide some information upon this matter. As has been hinted at we have laid claim upon caldari space which shall now be refered to as BAT Country.
Now as you can see, our war on frost giants goes well however we do expect some bottom feeders who are not bots to get cought up in this. Should any wish to, they can request a form to to fill in and convince our gatekeeper that they are not bots flying ice chariots for the frost giants. Our internet wizards will also be providing a hell purge protection form soon which people can sign up to for a nominal fee (yet to be determind) per miner. Should you wish, you can contact myself right now and I will see about putting you onto a list of the forgiven so that you may continue to suckle upon the ice flows of space in peace. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
19
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Posted - 2012.02.15 10:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
@ op
It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.
How bad is botting in this game does anyone really know, I doubt that.
I do know that the majority that suspect botting would not even know a bot if they saw one.
The paranoia about bots has grown over the years to a point that it's just a witch-hunt these days, being a witch-hunt it does not matter if someone's botting or not as long as they're mining.
A never ending Hulkageddon would more than likely damage the game more than bots do.
As for forcing people into 0.0, it won't happen, all you will do is force the non-botters that mine and like a quieter life out of the game. Is that what you want to do?
And no, I don't mine these days, not because of Hulkageddon I had already given up with it before Hulkageddon had even started. Used to get asked if I was a bot or not, sometimes I'd answer sometimes not as you get fed up with people asking. Someone mining in this game can look a bit like a bot because of the nature of mining in this game. |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
273
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 10:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:@ op
It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.
You don't get it, do you?
You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.
MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that.
Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Lady Vella
One For A Point Two For A Slap
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 10:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:The official Hulkageddon manager has disappeared since a while. Despite that, Goonswarm have formed a team dedicated to continued exhumers mass destruction that more than replaces Hulkageddon. In fact, while the original Hulkageddon was something for the "wanna be average Joe ganker" and its balance and prizes were adequate to that, Goonswarm have basically endless funding, quite the grip over a lot of content of the game (some markets, vast 0.0 areas...) and therefore can afford a true, never ending carpet bombing strategy (without discerning between bots and not bots). How do you feel about this? Good for the game, because it removes many bots? Bad because non bots are killed and podded as well? Good or bad because it sort of pushes ice mining more to 0.0? (if the carpet bombing keeps being as thorough as is now)? Good because more ships will be made? Bad because nobody in hi sec can defend from an endless funds huge alliance? This "different Hulkageddon" poses several philosophical and game design questions. If they perma-keep the carpet bomb runs (I hope so!), basically this will remove hi sec ice mining for good. I see it as one of those "exploits" that must be repeated till large playerbase enough quits and the developers wake up off their slumber. (not really exploit in the "illegal" sense of the term, they are fully entitled to this). Hi sec dwellers are too helpless and fragmented to ever form an effective "counter" and they are against a mammoth, not the usual "average Joe" tears fuelled suicide gankers. Also there's no real defense against an organization that can just bring N + 1 ships whatever buffs / tank you fit (and Macks are not known for their survivability at all). What tools does EvE give to counter / fight against this potentially (they have not confirmed or denied!) strong and continued initiative? I rewrite the hypothetical terms in short: 1) Unlimited funding for the operation. 2) Unlimited duration. 3) Unlimited and thorough belts carpet bombing. You can see the same players killed multiple times a day, there's no "recoup the losses by mining more" factor. First time it happens and if Goons are smart they will keep this pressure for months. Long term consequences of the above on the playerbase (in general)? 0.0 consequences / monopoly? (yes I am baiting you 0.0 haters!) Choices left to the hi sec miners since whatever they do, they will die? I find all of this quite intellectually amusing (am I slowing goonizing myself?)
They do nothing but run less than 5-10 jumps of jita/amarr - stay away from there n ur fine, our old corp is a massive mining corp n they lost nothing. Goons as fucktards |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 10:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Sasha Azala wrote:@ op
It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.
You don't get it, do you? You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic. MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that. Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.
Do you mine? |
Tore Vest
211
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hm.... where did I store my battlehulk..... Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
RogueAnt
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
I was there......
I was bored.....
http://kb.batcountry-eve.org/index.php/cc_detail/4/
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Khan Farshatok
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
first as the initiator and main "organizer" of what is going on, let me be blunt. this is in no way shape or form any sort of hulkaggedon. this is quite simply me being bored and my corp joining in for the lol's. as for us not being in it for the tears, you really dont know goons :D
if for some reason though you heppened to be popped, podded and laughed at during our little run of tear gathering, then please feel free to fill out our "im not a bot" reimbursement form. because we really only wanted to kill da bots. :D
love, horses and ponies khan |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
951
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:You don't get it, do you?
You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic.
You don't get it, do you?
The only people who want mining to be more fun are people who have never done it.
Making mining more viable or fun is not going to stop bored Goons suicide ganking anything that moves or doesn't move, as the case may be. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Sasha Azala wrote:@ op
It's actually quite tragic how the community has changed over the years stirred up by people like yourself.
You don't get it, do you? You'll never make mining viable nor fun if not by making it impossible until the devs do something drastic. MMOs work by priorities set by both the developers and users, if you want to change something that blatantly sucks, you destroy it until it's changed. Only Goons can be used for that, because they can do that. Otherwise, in the next 10 years you'll still sit there bored to tears, getting a pittance, while everything else gets improved, and upgraded around you.
Do you mine?
As you've not answered that yes or no question, I'll assume you don't.
You can't call for change if you don't even participate in that activity (health and safety does apply here) what gives you the right to ask for changes under that condition? You could argue but it might be more exciting and you would then mine, but the reality is it's never likely to be as exciting as combat can be. So the chances are you would not do it even if there were changes to it.
Also consider there are a lot of miners who might like it the way it is, albeit they would not mind a larger income from it.
If people want change to mining, making a noise and stamping your feet about it not the right way to go about it. Unfortunately this day and age with limited resource in RL some people have learned that you can get things done quicker by making a louder noise than someone else, but that is similar to a parent giving into their children so as to have a quieter life.
If people really want to change mining then they should petition it through their representatives (CSMs), as long as the CSMs act professionally and have a good working knowledge of the game then CCP will more than likely listen to them at least.
Would be interesting to know how many miners like it the way it is compared with those that would make it more interactive, but any attempt at trying to gain that information is likely to not truly represent the true figures, but might give an idea. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
435
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hulkaggeddon is completely irrelevant.
- Some newbies that have just gotten into their first Hulks will quit sooner than later.
- The veterans are in Covetors, friend's worm holes or taking a missions break
- The bots make so much ISK in all the time that they are not being ganked that they just absorb this little cost.
The only thing it does is make a bit of a fuss, give the Goons the attention that they are desperate for and present some (g/w)ankers with an occasion to get in a circle and stroke their e-peens. Ideas & stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -á Status: Taking a break |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
594
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Remember about it when you will be voitng four "your" CSM candidate |
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Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's interesting how Moon mining and PI are other forms of resource gathering in this game introduced since belt mining, and they're passive in nature rather than requiring players to sit in a ship and shoot at something. I like to think that this is because CCP realised how bad mining gameplay is, but that probably isn't the reason.
As for bots, any activity that is boring and monotonous, and which requires no thought or creativity can and will be botted. This goes for mining, ratting, missions, and Jita 0.01 isk undercutting market PvP. Bots are a symptom of a bad game with boring gameplay. People complain about CCP not banning bots, instead you should complain about the gameplay, and make gameplay that requires human thought and creativity to play, then the bots will go away on their own.
Out of interest does anyone know of any bots that can do probing? If not then that's a step in the right direction. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
382
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 11:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:It's a shame they don't do anything about the bots that will inevitably be grinding away on the other side of 0.0 space, but I can see GoonSwarm don't like fighting against the odds anymore, anything that kills the advantage bots have over normal players is a good thing but it's obvious that the Goons are just in it for the profit.
I'm not a 0.0 hater :P I just think this whole game is fubar, some areas more than others.
This basically reminds me of how the UK had a one day strike which was the most useless thing ever because the government actually made money from that and people didn't have to deal with all the usual b.s. public sector workers caused them, in the end this will go on for awhile and then everyone will forget it happened.
Some alliances do have organized, dedicated bot hunting teams that spend time hunting those buggers.
The problem is, each bot takes around a week to get a single kill on, because you have to make it ignore you before you can get a shot at it, and that means cloaky camping the system the bot in til you get whitelisted so they can actually make money again.
Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets.
Oh, and as someone who spends alot of time running an orca to support miners, only a botter would support the current system not needing an overhaul, because the only way to make the current system fun is with a group of being getting highly intoxicated. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
435
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 12:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jafit wrote:... As for bots, any activity that is boring and monotonous, and which requires no thought or creativity can and will be botted. ..
I knew it! Those little thrashers were behaving oddly. Someone forgot the trollolol text module! Ideas & stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -á Status: Taking a break |
Khan Farshatok
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 12:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Remember about it when you will be voitng four "your" CSM candidate
yes remember, VOTE MITTANI CSM!!
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Captain Vampire
The Condemned and Convicted
0
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Posted - 2012.02.15 12:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Khan Farshatok wrote:first as the initiator and main "organizer" of what is going on, let me be blunt. this is in no way shape or form any sort of hulkaggedon. this is quite simply me being bored and my corp joining in for the lol's. as for us not being in it for the tears, you really dont know goons :D
if for some reason though you heppened to be popped, podded and laughed at during our little run of tear gathering, then please feel free to fill out our "im not a bot" reimbursement form[/url]. because we really only wanted to kill da bots. :D
love, horses and ponies khan
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not on the reimbursement lol
Anyways, I'm posting you a confirmed bot, a player contracted me on him. Did the usual checks and I'm 110% sure he was a bot! Fill your boots with his tears if you see him "coolbreeze1" is the char!
Ice mining bots can kiss my arse, undecided on the roid bots though, losing them may massively raise the mineral prices. I ain't no miner and never wish to start to save some iskies! lol
Much Love
CV The Condemned and Convicted - Mercs for hire! Join "HAM." or contact "BlackCamper"
http://www.condemned-and-convicted.dk/kb |
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
171
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 12:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Let them do this. I'm really curious how this might effect the economy. Especially for themself. |
Valei Khurelem
325
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Posted - 2012.02.15 12:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets.
So basically what you're saying is that they're too lazy to go and hunt down the bots themselves? I'd love to do it but I'll get shot if I go there solo. I do think however that sometimes it seems CCP don't even play their game with the kind of things they talk about and the changes they put in, the font debacle is a perfect example because while that's been fixed it took them having to read a several threads of rage on the issue before they seemed to really acknowledge anything, same for stuff like the Nex Store.
Don't game devs play their games anymore? The GM's need to just get into a CONCORD ship and have a look at the 0.0 systems, I bet they have some sort of cheat that will make them invisible on Local too so they would easily be able to catch them. It's like in real life, police don't catch criminals by sitting around in their offices all day doing paper work, they actually have to go out and talk to people about it or catch them in the act.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
383
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 12:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:Highsec bots don't autodock when a neut enters system(can you imagine), so are easier targets. So basically what you're saying is that they're too lazy to go and hunt down the bots themselves? I'd love to do it but I'll get shot if I go there solo. I do think however that sometimes it seems CCP don't even play their game with the kind of things they talk about and the changes they put in, the font debacle is a perfect example because while that's been fixed it took them having to read a several threads of rage on the issue before they seemed to really acknowledge anything, same for stuff like the Nex Store. Don't game devs play their games anymore? The GM's need to just get into a CONCORD ship and have a look at the 0.0 systems, I bet they have some sort of cheat that will make them invisible on Local too so they would easily be able to catch them. It's like in real life, police don't catch criminals by sitting around in their offices all day doing paper work, they actually have to go out and talk to people about it or catch them in the act. Its not lazy, its the number of man hours required for them to verify a bot. We can (and do)go hunting, and simply laugh at collateral damage telling people not to act so much like bots. If CCP does the same thing, they have huge drama on their hands, so they have to be sure before they do anything. I was a GM for a different major MMO that shall not be named, and bot reports were a pain to verify. I had to go watch the accused for hours, and if it looked to me like a bot, I had to attempt to talk to them for another hour or so. If I still felt they were a bot, the case got forwarded to the security dept, who pulled logs etc to get further verification. Most bots will survive that, just by ringing a bell when you get a tell.
WoW couldn't beat botters, they had to sue the company that made the bots, and even then its still a problem there. If Blizzard couldn't do it, CCPs resources don't stand a chance.
TL;DR CCP can't beat bots, so we have to. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
22
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 12:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Its not lazy, its the number of man hours required for them to verify a bot. We can (and do)go hunting, and simply laugh at collateral damage telling people not to act so much like bots. If CCP does the same thing, they have huge drama on their hands, so they have to be sure before they do anything. I was a GM for a different major MMO that shall not be named, and bot reports were a pain to verify. I had to go watch the accused for hours, and if it looked to me like a bot, I had to attempt to talk to them for another hour or so. If I still felt they were a bot, the case got forwarded to the security dept, who pulled logs etc to get further verification. Most bots will survive that, just by ringing a bell when you get a tell.
WoW couldn't beat botters, they had to sue the company that made the bots, and even then its still a problem there. If Blizzard couldn't do it, CCPs resources don't stand a chance.
TL;DR CCP can't beat bots, so we have to.
CCP can't beat bots?
So you're part of the growing group of vigilantes and being a vigilante makes you feel special, I guess. Trouble with vigilantes is that they see themselves above the law (rules) and don't concern themselves with getting their facts right, they convieniently write it off as collateral damage when they get it wrong. Of course there's no rules being broken as you're acting vigilantes in a game, but it's still your reasoning I have doubts with especially as I wonder how much collateral damage you actually do.
If you were a GM you should know better.
I've seen a growing increase in such vigilantes, even bleeding into other MMOs that makes me wonder if such behaviour is being group organised and promoted from outside of the MMOs.
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Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.02.15 12:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vote Mittani and together we can rid the universe of bots. |
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