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Why folks are not going to 0.0

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Gimpb	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:21:00 - [121] Personally I'd love to move to 0.0 but I just haven't really had the opportunity. It took 6 weeks from starting to get to the point where I could solo most Lv4s and I'm now quite bored... I wanna pvp. I'm not worried about losing ships either, it's just some strange combination of laziness, apathy, and inconvenience that has kept me from moving. I guess I can't put a finger on any one reason, it's just meh, I donno.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:49:00 - [122] Originally by: Lindsay Fox Hell, if you want to, go and live in providence, it's at least as safe as empire, even if it is a bit dull. Hehe, that place is a better training ground for the jump from high sec to 0.0 than low sec ever will be. I wouldn't call it as safe as empire, but it beats low sec by leaps and bounds. The alliances out there have come as close as any player alliances ever will to emulating the function of empire space without NPC support. For new players looking to shed carebear fur, they cannot be recommended enough. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:54:00 - [123] Originally by: Lindsay Fox There is a context to what they are doing and in that context it makes sense. Agreed, I am not a complete carebear, I've sat on gate camps myself a few times, and always had a reason for doing so. By the same thinking, every time I jump a gate, I also have a reason, a context. A lot of those early FPS also had reason, a context, to capture the flag, take the enemy base, etc. 'Quake I' capture the flag mod was great fun in its day, every action had a reason, though did not make spawn camps any less annoying, in fact more annoying. Originally by: Lindsay Fox In Eve, things are different. In low-sec, campers are pirates. There is a context to what they are doing and in that context it makes sense. This blockading of heavily-trafficked routes was exactly what real pirates did a few hundred years ago, and the solution to it now is the same as it was then - bring friends, be organized, find another route, run the gauntlet at a strategic time, etc. Camping a gate in all honesty, for me anyway, is no more fun than landing in the same camp, it's boring, you have to get your group together, wait on all the logistics back end to catch up etc, herding cats, and then sit there and wait for the fish. Let's suppose the balance of a camp shifted from the campers to the traveler and the traveler could always get away. That's not fun either, the campers have to go to all the effort to get the camp together and now they don't get any fun for all their efforts. The solution in those early FPS were the same as well, get a group together and lay waste to the spawn camper, find away around the map, beat the crap out of him till he left the server. It still did not change the games from evolving. Not because the spawn camper could not be eliminated through team work or finding away around the camper and blowing him up, but because it wasn't fun and it hindered the ability of players to engage in the activities that gave the context/objective value, which brings us back to one of the themes of the thread. At some point effort outweighs fun beyond the simplicity of risk/reward. It seems to me, that Eve needs to reduce effort and increase fun, and it can still maintain the same risk/reward and there by maintain the value of context for all parties. There are many pirates that miss the days of viable solo piracy, many players that wish bounty hunting, a traditionally romanticized solo activity, were more viable - The lone trader, the smuggler, the lone prospector, the adventurer. There is a lot of lost context/objective/game play for the sake of the context of the camper. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Florio Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:58:00 - [124] OP, you're completely wrong. And the main reason people won't go into 0.0 is fear of pvp.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:59:00 - [125] hmm, a 'solution' to a problem that doesn't exist... being curb-stomped by a 60M SP combat monster 1 vs. 1 doesn't happen that often, simple matter of demographics, and if it does? Tough! Harsh universe, always a bigger fish, yadda yadda... Lets face it, this is really just another whine about the perceived 'gap' between veterans and new players, of the kind that will go on ad infinitum on these boards because people just don't get that SP!=Skill. (As demonstrated everyday when an apparently fveteranF character does something immensely stupid, like say, fhonour tankingF....eBay, marvellous... ) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
SheriffFruitfly Caldari FlyinPenguin Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:44:00 - [126] Edited by: SheriffFruitfly on 10/02/2008 18:44:20 Originally by: Alz Shado I don't get it. The biggest barrier to entry for 0.0 is NOT skillpoints, it's ISK. (shrug) Whatever the barrier is, I'm not good 'nuff for lowsec atm. I'm not gonna be this guy: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=702252
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.02.10 19:13:00 - [127] Edited by: Kessiaan on 10/02/2008 19:15:14 Edited by: Kessiaan on 10/02/2008 19:14:13 Dude, whatever you're smoking I want some. I been out in 0.0 for like 2 months now, and I only have 6.5M SP (maybe 5 when I came out here) All you need to be able to do really is shoot the rats so you can make some money. After that you can find a place - I can't pvp worth a **** myself (my main job is to make sure the POS's don't run out of gas) but when it's go time I still jump in a Thorax and run e-war - it's cheap when it goes pop and it gets the job done. I've never seen a 1v1 in 0.0 - straight-up SP matches don't happen, if people don't want to fight they either don't come or hide in a POS. Lowsec is a whole different story. Lowsec is crowded. You can't secure your space in lowsec very well. Rats aren't worth much (1.5+ mil rats are common in 0.0, biggest I've seen in lowsec was 200K), rocks aren't worth much, ice isn't worth much, exploration sites aren't worth much. It just sucks. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.10 19:18:00 - [128] Originally by: Gimpb Personally I'd love to move to 0.0 but I just haven't really had the opportunity. It took 6 weeks from starting to get to the point where I could solo most Lv4s and I'm now quite bored... I wanna pvp. I'm not worried about losing ships either, it's just some strange combination of laziness, apathy, and inconvenience that has kept me from moving. I guess I can't put a finger on any one reason, it's just meh, I donno. You need to join a good corp. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:18:00 - [129] the only folks who want to go to 0.0 but dont go are those very new and in npc corporations everyone else is not there because they dont ever want to be there Trashed sig, Shark was here
SheriffFruitfly Caldari FlyinPenguin Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:32:00 - [130] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Gimpb Personally I'd love to move to 0.0 but I just haven't really had the opportunity. It took 6 weeks from starting to get to the point where I could solo most Lv4s and I'm now quite bored... I wanna pvp. I'm not worried about losing ships either, it's just some strange combination of laziness, apathy, and inconvenience that has kept me from moving. I guess I can't put a finger on any one reason, it's just meh, I donno. You need to join a good corp. I was under the impression that you needed like 15mil SP to join a good corp.

Illyrinia Caldari Friendly Hostility	Posted - 2008.02.11 06:41:00 - [131] Edited by: Illyrinia on 11/02/2008 06:43:13 Originally by: Anell I always see these threads with people talking about how you should move out to 0.0 and away from empire. Sorry but its just not going to happen. You will never see a flood of folks leaving empire. Heck your never going to see an appreciable number of folks leaving empire to come out to 0.0. And the reason is simple. There is a massive amount of disparity in ability and skills in this game and it creates a lot of situations where people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation. And of course as many have reminded us before 0.0 doesn't have 1 v 1 situations so much as it has roaming gangs. So folks less then a few years old can never leave high sec without getting blown up. At this point some of you are saying "hey wait, I have X points (X being less then 30 million) and I am in low sec and I kick the crud out of everyone I meet." Well my response is good for you! And how often do you die in return? Do you need to be in an alliance/corp with more experienced people to do that? What are all the things you have already that the average joe in high sec doesn't have? My point is that folks are not leaving high sec when all it means is getting blown up. And not just blown up once or twice, but again and again and again until they have no money left to replace ships. Which is what 0.0 currently offers them. And so this is not just a big whine about other peoples whines I offer you a solution. An impossible solution, by that I mean one that will never be accepted but the only one I know that doesn't involve simply getting rid of high sec. The way to solve all these problems is make the disparity between low skill point people flying T1 and high skill point folks flying big ships or T2 less apparent. This means that it must be possible for low sec characters in 1 v 1 with high sec characters to win. When I say possible I mean make the chances much closer to 50/50 even though the high skill point character has better equipment etc. If you make the game more about the strategy of how you setup your ship vs how it is now (based around how much damage per second you do) then low skill point characters have a chance. If low sec characters could actually win fights in 1 v 1 they are more likely to move out to 0.0 and form their own alliances. Of course this solution will never be accepted because it inherently reduces the value of literally years of skill training, but its the solution I believe that would be needed to create a larger 0.0 populace. Just some thoughts. didnt read the whole post but heres some pointers for you- consider eve with levels at 5 mil sp your level 1, that means frigs at 10mil sp your level 2, that means cruisers/afs at 15mil sp your level 3, that means bcs/hacs at 20mil sp your at level 4, that means bs/commands at 25mil sp your at level 5, that means you start training for capitals at 30mil sp your at level 6, that means your close to capitals at 35mil sp your at level 7, you can set in a capital, and pew pew in it, but not quite great at 40mil sp your at level 8, you can pew pew in a capital with the best of em... most people go from rookies to level 3, and expect to be great, eve isnt about the biggest gun, its about how you use the gun, and your skills. someone with 5m sp in a battleship can be killed by someone very easily in a frig with 10m sp, thats how it works. stop trying to rush things... currently i have a 15m sp carrier pilot, that has a carrier, that NEVER LEAVES STATION (except rare, VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY rare needs) but all of his sp (save 600k for learning, and some 200k for other lame crap that comes with char creation) so hes SPECed in carrier. *and to add to the sp thing, someone with skills in everything, say 30m sp can be killed by a hardcore specced char with 15m sp, its all about how you train skills You are trying to post to a locked thread CONCORD has been notified
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.11 08:51:00 - [132] "consider eve with levels at 5 mil sp your level 1, that means frigs at 10mil sp your level 2, that means cruisers/afs at 15mil sp your level 3, that means bcs/hacs at 20mil sp your at level 4, that means bs/commands at 25mil sp your at level 5, that means you start training for capitals at 30mil sp your at level 6, that means your close to capitals at 35mil sp your at level 7, you can set in a capital, and pew pew in it, but not quite great at 40mil sp your at level 8, you can pew pew in a capital with the best of em.." I know you don't mean that in any way literally, but I just wanted to add that at nearly "level 5" I have just started getting used to flying T2 Cruisers (Recons, HACs, etc), and I'll be "level 8" before I'm done with them. I find the idea of capital ships unappealing. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.11 08:58:00 - [133] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Gimpb Personally I'd love to move to 0.0 but I just haven't really had the opportunity. It took 6 weeks from starting to get to the point where I could solo most Lv4s and I'm now quite bored... I wanna pvp. I'm not worried about losing ships either, it's just some strange combination of laziness, apathy, and inconvenience that has kept me from moving. I guess I can't put a finger on any one reason, it's just meh, I donno. You need to join a good corp. I was under the impression that you needed like 15mil SP to join a good corp. Absolutely not. Many corps do have SP restrictions (I believe Triumvirate used to have a 20M SP minimum), but most do not, or have rather lower requirements than 15M SP. If you have some PvP experience, that counts for far more than SP. Any mission-runner can rack up millions of SP, but he'll be worse than useless in a real fight. Many corps make a point of recruiting a certain proportion of new players - the one I used to run certainly did. Good attitude is something that will get you in to a good corp. One of the best ways to join a PvP corp is to have a good fight with some of it's members. If you get popped, be a good sport about it and ask for advice on tactics and fittings. If you manage to win, be a good sport about it and share advice. It's been said several times in this thread, but it bears repeating: Make up some cheap PvP ships and head in to lo-sec. Get some experience. I recommend you look at Metafarmers if you want an intro in to pirating. The CEO is a good guy and he'll help you become a fearsome blinky-red pirate ASAP. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Rikka Nova Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:30:00 - [134] Anell, you go to 0.0 for the wrong reasons then. In PVP you should consider your ship as lost from the moment you undock. Everyone loses ships but it's worth it - at least for me. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If you are there for the money you can avoid PVP most times. It's not that mystic instant death zone everyone believes 0.0 to be. And it sounds as if you should start picking your fights. I know that most of my losses were either because I was bored and took a fight wich was to much for me or because I was drunk and tried to shoot stuff in high-sec Anyways actual player skills do matter for me more then SP. Thing is if you fly all that shiney stuff you need to replace it too.
Skeng	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:52:00 - [135] I'm in 0.0 and haven't even been playing the game two weeks. Flying around in a frigate which even now I can easily replace, so dying isn't a big deal. It's a quick way to learn, if you're in a large alliance you can find lots of weird ways to make money, scouting etc. Plus with jump clones it's not much of an issue, as if I need to raise some quick reliable cash I can clone jump back to empire for a day. I've had some very noobish deaths, actually only one in 0.0 heading from empire. As someone with very low skills you just have to be that much more careful and smart about things like traveling, and don't bring that shiny new cruiser out either. I don't mind getting killed or risking things though, infact I quite enjoy the risk. The problem is starting the game out, you have that "It's gonna be a year before I can get into the ship that I actually want to fly", once you get over that.. and realize that you're playing a game and be comfortable with the fact that have fun with what you can do now, and not a year later, all those other things will come eventually.
Kayamas	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:01:00 - [136] I M P L A N T S That's all I wanted to add. W/O my implants I get a lot less LP. Also, I cannot afford to replace them every other day.
Iva Soreass Personal Vendetta	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:24:00 - [137] @ The op, just wrong on so many levels. The reason most of the people i know aint in 0.0 is cause tbh 0.0 war fare and **** like that sucks big time. Shooting POS's , bring blob upon blob upon blob to fight anyone is getting out of hand, fleet fights are just for the lol's now. Small gang and stuff is yeah very good, but the minute a blob comes the game becomes unplayable and the vast majority of that happens in 0.0
knobber Jobbler Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:29:00 - [138] I want to go to 0.0 to pvp, join a corp there, do fleet battles etc but I can only spend maybe 6 to 10 hours a week playing EVE. Real life commitments seem to be more of a barrier than SP.
DeGrand Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:43:00 - [139] Quote: people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation. I stopped reading after this....1 v 1, yeah really, those happen all the time in 0.0
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:53:00 - [140] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 11/02/2008 11:54:37 Originally by: knobber Jobbler I want to go to 0.0 to pvp, join a corp there, do fleet battles etc but I can only spend maybe 6 to 10 hours a week playing EVE. Real life commitments seem to be more of a barrier than SP. QFT. In the three major alliances I've been in (one a friend of ASCN, one of D2, another was at war with Redswarm about a year ago), whether directly by our alliance leaders or indirectly by their caretakers (i.e. D2), I left because of demands to be on at XYZ time to "defend the turf", or the usual "We know people are in hi sec, you need to get out here and fight the war or we'll get your corp leaders to boot you". I get what being in an "alliance" and a "team" is all about, but I can't do that sort of commitment, and apparently that makes me no good for being in 0.0. Why's my point about being in hi sec important? My combat main was in 0.0, my hauling alt was in hi sec doing indy and stuff, but was demanded in 0.0 for "logistics". Today, I could have the combat still in nullsec and my indy main and packhorses in hi sec earning 2.4 billion a month. That's over a battleship a day plus fits, or two dreadnaughts a month, from one alliance member, and my combat main can almost fly and fit titans. But apparently that's not good enough Why don't people go to 0.0? because of pain-in-the-ass alliance leaders with a command complex. EDIT: Further, there's no real way for small time corps to really establish themselves. More than anything, in a mmorpg people want a bit of freedom, not to be signed up to the biggest baddest alliance for all of eve.

ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:16:00 - [141] Originally by: Lindsay Fox Originally by: ZerKar ...Juicey...increadibly...hassel...Conglomorant...tollerate .. Well clearly you aren't that much of a perfectionist. There's a big difference between perfectionism and failure avoidance. Failure is an opportunity to learn, it should be embraced. Losing ships while in 0.0 is not a loss, it is more than compensated for by the increased income you can make there. After the first few weeks you won't die much anyway, as long as you learn from your mistakes. Either way, my point was mainly for others who may have read your opinion that there's nothing worthwhile in 0.0 and believed it. And to that I might add that you do NOT need a big corp or alliance to live in 0.0. Hell, if you want to, go and live in providence, it's at least as safe as empire, even if it is a bit dull. Some must learn by doing, others can learn by observing, yet others simple know by instinct. That said, I am not so blessed as to be the lattest but I am blessed to be able to learn by observation. I do not need to "Do" in order to learn something so there is no learning experience lost in this case. Moreover, I can make plenty of ISK right where I am, and oh yeah, everything I want to buy is also at my finger tips. A bit hard to find everything I want way down there in 0.0. Not to mention that if I want to go between 0.0 and High it will be gate camp city, so I will have to spend a lot of extra time scouting the areas ahead. When you factor in the added work to go there, as I originaly stated, it is not worth my time. I also am not lacking in proper dopamine levels (yeah that amazes me too, I am not that jolly) and do not need a sudden injection of adrenaline to "feel good". It usually makes me "feel bad" as that sudden ill jolt to my system comes crashing down on my organs like N20 flying through an old beater's rusty engine. Of course that bad feeling is ownly dwarfed by a sudden loss of valuable progress all in the name of the "chance" of greater earnings. Like I have said in other posts, if I want to get my ships blown up I will self destruct them and pod myself, it is like going through low-sec but takes less time. (And can be potentailly funny depending on how dramatic you are when you do it and where you do it at.) Also, I have quite a few Implants to Consider, they are not great, but they move my SP's along and I do not feel like being without them. So until I grab myself a combat clone I do not feel like replacing them every damned time I am dumb enough to cross through low sec (which is like saying "Hey! Anyone want to Pod me!?") and get blown up. (Actually IF I did say that in Local I might make my enemies laugh too hard to lock me down.) As for Gate Camps, I fully support them in 0.0 where Alliances and Corps are trying to hold their turf. There is little better way for them to do that and it MUST be done. Low-Sec Gate Camps are bit less needed and mostly just really annoying. +++++++++++++++ For the LAST time... Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane!
Dracorimus Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:03:00 - [142] TBH this attitude is making me think about not playing anymore, people who are too scared or dont wanna risk anything....or just cannot win and overwhelm you with stupid numbers.....to guarantee they 'WIN'. Its not about getting good pvp anymore, its about blobbing and ganking thats it...This is EVE as it is now, not the EVE I first signed up to play in 2004. 1v1 - are you dreaming ? Never happens at least not anymore see above statement. Oof my friends had a "1v1" he was in a thorax the other was in a Deimos, so HAC vs T1 cruiser, my friend was beating him so badly...then the deimos pilot had his friend in a Recon cruiser jam my buddy and the deimos warped off in structure simply cos he was going to lose.....and then proceeded to smack talk in local... So whatever you suggest will never happen its the player dynamic that is and will be for the rest of EVES life, sadly. -
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:21:00 - [143] Originally by: Anell And the reason is simple. There is a massive amount of disparity in ability and skills in this game and it creates a lot of situations where people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation. And of course as many have reminded us before 0.0 doesn't have 1 v 1 situations so much as it has roaming gangs. So folks less then a few years old can never leave high sec without getting blown up. Incorrect. My first PVP ship was an Incursus frigate, 3 ion blasters, afterburner, webber, scrambler and cap relays. Using this ship and less than a million skillpoints we managed to drop players in battleships and 20 million plus SP back in the day. The only thing stopping you from moving to 0.0 is cowardice and fear of losing assets, not some imaginary wall of skillpoints you'll never be able to surmount.
More11o	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:35:00 - [144] After reading some of the posts i would just like to ask "Does anybody want a 3.2mill SP character?" I have tried on several occasions to get into 0.0 because i am, quite frankly, bored of empire space but as soon as i step foot into a 0.0 system theres a mobile warp disruptor and a gang of ships on the gate. So there goes another Assault ship in my frantic dash back to the gate hoping i can get there in time to jump out. It hasn't made me too scared or unwilling to try again but i can see how after 2 or 3 attempts people decide to leave it. I think il try a cloak next time though.... I have tried to join corporations that are in alliances and have access to 0.0 but i don't meet any of the SP requirements. So, all in all, i can see why new players sit in high-sec just wanting to get thier SP up to join corporations or the idea of physically going into 0.0 does not appeal
Stogee Grog Gluggers	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:57:00 - [145] My 2 cents 33+ mill player. -I love PVP, I PVP a lot. Its the mainstay of my gametime. -I also like to run missions from time to time. -I even like to mine. -I even like to build things. -I really enjoying playing the market too. I like doing different things to break up my gametime to keep my interest. I however -Dont have vast amounts of time to play. -I hate being bossed around by some pompus **** telling me I have to be online at a certain time and place. -I hate having to put up with some guy whose FC who cant hack it that hes actually crap at being a FC and blames everyone else. -I hate shooting at huge static objects with tonnes of HPs. I've spent a lot of time in 0.0, been in alliances and fought alliance wars. 0.0 is dead boring. Empire/Low sec is far more fun. Someone in this thread hit the nail on the head mentioning that highsec/lowsec offers flexibility. What it really comes down to, is that those that live in 0.0 just have elitist attitudes and are too busy stroking their own epeens. You'll notice these people will suggest to join a corp/alliance ni 0.0. All their really after is to bolster their own ranks. You can play in 0.0 from day 1, so long as you play by their rules and do as they say.
SkeletonDenial V i r u s	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:13:00 - [146] The 0.0 Experiment Altough the voices* in my head aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas.*
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:30:00 - [147] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Why don't people go to 0.0? because of pain-in-the-ass alliance leaders with a command complex. QFT In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Dark Motoko Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:04:00 - [148] Originally by: Anell I always see these threads with people talking about how you should move out to 0.0 and away from empire. Sorry but its just not going to happen. You will never see a flood of folks leaving empire. Heck your never going to see an appreciable number of folks leaving empire to come out to 0.0. And the reason is simple. There is a massive amount of disparity in ability and skills in this game and it creates a lot of situations where people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation. And of course as many have reminded us before 0.0 doesn't have 1 v 1 situations so much as it has roaming gangs. So folks less then a few years old can never leave high sec without getting blown up. At this point some of you are saying "hey wait, I have X points (X being less then 30 million) and I am in low sec and I kick the crud out of everyone I meet." Well my response is good for you! And how often do you die in return? Do you need to be in an alliance/corp with more experienced people to do that? What are all the things you have already that the average joe in high sec doesn't have? My point is that folks are not leaving high sec when all it means is getting blown up. And not just blown up once or twice, but again and again and again until they have no money left to replace ships. Which is what 0.0 currently offers them. And so this is not just a big whine about other peoples whines I offer you a solution. An impossible solution, by that I mean one that will never be accepted but the only one I know that doesn't involve simply getting rid of high sec. The way to solve all these problems is make the disparity between low skill point people flying T1 and high skill point folks flying big ships or T2 less apparent. This means that it must be possible for low sec characters in 1 v 1 with high sec characters to win. When I say possible I mean make the chances much closer to 50/50 even though the high skill point character has better equipment etc. If you make the game more about the strategy of how you setup your ship vs how it is now (based around how much damage per second you do) then low skill point characters have a chance. If low sec characters could actually win fights in 1 v 1 they are more likely to move out to 0.0 and form their own alliances. Of course this solution will never be accepted because it inherently reduces the value of literally years of skill training, but its the solution I believe that would be needed to create a larger 0.0 populace. Just some thoughts. There's a game you seem to be more suited to. It's called Hello Kitty Online. I gather everybody is always happy there. Have fun.
Simetriz	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:23:00 - [149] There have been several times 0.0 PvP'rs have left 0.0 Some reasons and none of them have to do with game mechanics. Internal corp and alliance politics. (this is a major one I have seen more people quiting and just flat out leaving 0.0 for this very reason.) Leaders with the GOD mentality. Not enough PvP Too much PvP (don't have the isk to support it) Leaders having personnal not corp agendas. Internal arguements (personnal conflicts) This list goes on and on. Although alot of people have never gone to 0.0 there is also a huge portion that are tired of all crap that is being handed out and have just left 0.0 and have never gone back. I have friends who have looked into returning to 0.0 but there is so much INTERNAL bickering going on and corps and alliances folding because of it that they flat out just don't bother.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:44:00 - [150] Originally by: Lindsay Fox Actually the 'fear of losing ships' thing is true, but I didn't realise it until I got my brother to play. While we were still empiring and had never visited 0.0, I wondered how the hell he had never lost a ship and I lost one every couple of days. I eventually realised that he saw losing his ship as a total disaster, whereas I just didn't care apart from the few hours it would take to grind back enough money to replace it. The first time he tried a mission in lowsec he got ganked by pirates who probed him out. Then they ganked him again when he went back for his wreck. He quit the same day. I guess it's just a totally different mindset. To me, losing a ship for a new reason was just an indication that I was learning new stuff and getting better. Losing a ship to a reason I had previously learned was just me being stupid. To him, losing a ship of any kind for any reason was a calamity. I had never even realised that people play like that. I think this is a big part of the problem, half of eve is like me, and the other half is like my brother, and both sides cannot empathise with the other at all I had already ventured into 0.0 a week or two before he quit, and I had died a lot but was having much more fun than I had before. And yet the more fun I seemed to be having, the less he seemed to want to join me. I think it was just because he didn't want to die. I just can't get my head around it to be honest. I understand what you mean. People have a serious dislike of loosing their "pixel" ships that go beyond reason. When I created Black Dwarf with a bunch of real life and clan friends, I had a few that had this same mindset. One of my guys really liked the industrial side of things (he loved crafting in EQ2) and he wanted to do mining and building. So on his first day I went with him to .8 system and let him mine in his little noob ship whilst I watched over him with my uber stealth bomber with cruise missiles on it. What did I do? I said "Hey, wanna see how it works when your ship takes damage?" He said sure. So I opened up on him with one volley of my T2 cruise. Mind you, this was my first time flying the SB in combat and I was curios how much damage I could do to a noob ship. To no surprise his ship went pop instantly with him floating in hid pod. My friend went emo and asked me "Why did you kill me? You blew up my ship now how do I get another one? You shot a ***** cruise missile at me didn't you know it was going to kill me?!" So I said "Dude, no worries, it's a nuub ship, you will get one when you dock!" He said but he wanted that ship, not a replacement! And he refused to logon again. Zomg, every once in awhile I laugh at him when we are on TS whilst he's playing EQ2 or something and *es about his armor decaying after fighting. And I always link him my deathmails and show him how much I loose everytime I get blown up and he always says he doesn't know how I could not get ed off when I loose a ship. Just a big LOL. So essentially there are going to be those who get to emotional over a ship loss, especially a ***** nuubship, and those who will shrug and say "Meh, guess I gotta mission run for an hour to get my enough isk to pay for the insurance on my other BS". Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint



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